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Fuses getting Hot

2

Comments

  • #32
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    dieselbug wrote: »
    "The one in the Kitchen runs the washing machine at times and also has an automatic outside light wired to it. "

    I'm not an electrician, but to the best of my knowledge sockets and lights should not be on the same circuit. Might want to mention this to your electrician.

    It is not a major problem running an outside light from sockets.

    The main problem with it is a fault on the light can trip the socket circuit, and because it has an RCD, can trip all sockets in the house.

    A double pole fused spur wired from the sockets on such a setup, allows complete isolation of outside lights etc in the even of problems.

    If it was a ring main, the spur should be connected in as part of the ring.


  • #33
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Dwork wrote: »
    Also, it will give you a nice, toasty 25 amp shock without tripping or blowing,

    A 25 amp shock?

    That cant happen in a house, or anything even remotely like it.


  • #34
    One shot on kill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭One shot on kill


    Bruthal wrote: »
    A 25 amp shock?

    That cant happen in a house, or anything even remotely like it.

    Ye know you keep arguing and arguing are you an electric you seem to know a bit about it. You keep saying its bad advice but you keep arguing with everyone. The fuse board is out of date and needs to be changed if it is heating up there is a problem what do you not get the advice was unsafe and dangerous. Prob not to a qualified electric but dangerous to a person that doesn't know what there at.


  • #35
    Andrew_Doran
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Andrew_Doran


    One shot on kill wrote: »
    is it illegal to work on electric's if your not registered

    Sorry to go off on a tangent but that's not true (for the moment at least, how much longer is anybody's guess) and I have that in writing from the CER.


  • #36
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    One shot on kill wrote: »
    Ye know you keep arguing and arguing are you an electric you seem to know a bit about it.
    I know a little about it.
    You keep saying its bad advice but you keep arguing with everyone.
    I am not argueing. I asked what danger the coin behind the fuse presents, while at the same time saying recommending it was not good. Perhaps you will answer that?
    The fuse board is out of date and needs to be changed if it is heating up there is a problem what do you not get the advice was unsafe and dangerous.
    I already said it was not good advice. I also said I myself had used a coin before. What was the danger in the case of removing a burnt gauge ring and using a coin safely in the fuse holder while a new ring is acquired? The coin is in the ceramic holder, not in the fuseboard. Now what is the major danger with that? Not withstanding that too big a fuse can go in with no gauge ring, but thats not to do with the coin. No argument, just a simple question.
    Prob not to a qualified electric but dangerous to a person that doesn't know what there at.
    As can be changing a socket, a light switch, or replacing a fuse and not having it tight enough.

    The fact is, in the 80`s, there were many fuseboards, with gauge rings. They burn out. New fuse wont reach the outgoing fuse contact with the gauge ring removed. Coin in fuse holder, then fuse, and it would be a temporary fix if a new gauge ring had to be got. No major danger. Coin is not within the fuseboard itself at all.

    That does not mean I think it is a recommended course of action. The gauge ring had to be removed, a tricky operation itself at times. So try to differentiate between my opinion that it is not the massive danger being portrayed, but I wouldt recommend it for the average person to do.

    You called for mods to close a posters account. A bit silly imo.


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  • #37
    One shot on kill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭One shot on kill


    Andrew_Doran wrote: »
    Sorry to go off on a tangent but that's not true (for the moment at least, how much longer is anybody's guess) and I have that in writing from the CER.

    Oh right I though it was in sorry work carried out is liable for inspection and should be certified doe.


  • #38
    One shot on kill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭One shot on kill


    Bruthal wrote: »
    I know a little about it.


    I am not argueing. I asked what danger the coin behind the fuse presents, while at the same time saying recommending it was not good. Perhaps you will answer that?


    I already said it was not good advice. I also said I myself had used a coin before. What was the danger in the case of removing a burnt gauge ring and using a coin safely in the fuse holder while a new ring is acquired? The coin is in the ceramic holder, not in the fuseboard. Now what is the major danger with that? Not withstanding that too big a fuse can go in with no gauge ring, but thats not to do with the coin. No argument, just a simple question.


    As can be changing a socket, a light switch, or replacing a fuse and not having it tight enough.

    The fact is, in the 80`s, there were many fuseboards, with gauge rings. They burn out. New fuse wont reach the outgoing fuse contact with the gauge ring removed. Coin in fuse holder, then fuse, and it would be a temporary fix if a new gauge ring had to be got. No major danger. Coin is not within the fuseboard itself at all.

    That does not mean I think it is a recommended course of action. The gauge ring had to be removed, a tricky operation itself at times. So try to differentiate between my opinion that it is not the massive danger being portrayed, but I wouldt recommend it for the average person to do.

    You called for mods to close a posters account. A bit silly imo.


    Ok fair enough were not actually in the 80's any more.

    Taking into account that none of us have even seen the fuse board or even have an idea what sort of condition it is in. And actually how old anything is. Now you have said you wouldn't advise anyone to do it why is that.


  • #39
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    One shot on kill wrote: »
    Ok fair enough were not actually in the 80's any more.
    The fuseboard in the OP here was not asked about in the 80`s either, yet still existed when it was asked about last year.
    Taking into account that none of us have even seen the fuse board or even have an idea what sort of condition it is in. And actually how old anything is.
    You were going on about the massive danger of a coin in a fuse holder, more so than the fuseboard here.

    Now you have said you wouldn't advise anyone to do it why is that.

    I wouldnt usually advise anyone to remove a fuseboard cover either, when they ask a question. Yet they are removed all the time. Is recommending removing a fuseboard cover, also in your MOD ban requests of posters?

    And what is the danger of the coin in the back of the fuse holder? You must know?


  • #40
    One shot on kill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭One shot on kill


    Look back through your posts you brought up the 80's.

    And look I'm more or less finished with this tread is just silly now

    But in my mind if they wanted you to use 1 cent coins they give you a bag of them with your fuse board. Look 1 screw driver or finger in the wrong place and there is a nasty shock which a perfectly healthy person will more than likely survive. Looking out for someone's safety is noting to be in ashamed about.

    Ye maybe getting the account closed was a bit extreme.

    Keep the faith.


  • #41
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    One shot on kill wrote: »
    Look back through your posts you brought up the 80's.
    You dismissed my post on the basis this is not the 80`s. Since some boards from the 80`s still exist, including the OP one, your basis of dismissal seemed irrelevant.
    But in my mind if they wanted you to use 1 cent coins they give you a bag of them with your fuse board. .
    Improvisation often involves items not included as standard.

    1 cent coins would not be great, so that`s you and improvisation off to a bad start.
    Look 1 screw driver or finger in the wrong place and there is a nasty shock which a perfectly healthy person will more than likely survive
    Changing a light switch or socket, or dare I say it, an MCB, involves screw drivers and fingers too, without a coin in sight.


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  • #42
    dpw11104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭dpw11104


    Was commonly done though not safe to put a coin in place of broken /too small a gauge ring.There is /was a special tool to remove the gauge ring we would wrap in electrical tape .Kitchen plugs should be isolated from any other circuits ,warm fuse indicates overloading .The fuse may not blow because it was replaced with a bigger size,but your wires inside the wall or heating up as well/not safe.I have seen people put paper clips in place of 13 amp fuses in plugs etc.....not safe.I served my time as an electrician in the early eighties but live in New York .Send me a round trip ticket to Dublin and I will gladly stop by to have a gander(no charge).


  • #43
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    dpw11104 wrote: »
    Was commonly done though not safe to put a coin in place of broken /too small a gauge ring.

    While not ideal to put too big a fuse in the place of what should have been there, what is the actual danger of using a coin to temporarily take up the gap left by a removed gauge ring, if stuck and while waiting to get a new one?
    Send me a round trip ticket to Dublin and I will gladly stop by to have a gander(no charge).
    Id say the OP is ok now, it was last May he asked the question.


  • #44
    hufpc8w3adnk65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,158 ✭✭✭✭hufpc8w3adnk65


    dpw11104 wrote: »
    Was commonly done though not safe to put a coin in place of broken /too small a gauge ring.There is /was a special tool to remove the gauge ring we would wrap in electrical tape .

    Ya it's a very technical name it's called a "gauge ring extractor tool".yes thats exactly how the tool was named on my list of tools in 2001 for FAS ha ha..


  • #45
    dpw11104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭dpw11104


    Bruthal wrote: »
    While not ideal to put too big a fuse in the place of what should have been there, what is the actual danger of using a coin to temporarily take up the gap left by a removed gauge ring, if stuck and while waiting to get a new one?


    Id say the OP is ok now, it was last May he asked the question.

    It was done by people as a DIY quick fix ,and if it is working people often leave it as is without replacing the gauge ring .The gauge ring is to ensure the right size fuse goes in for the cable/load demand on that circuit.Also , the fuse might not make good contact which could result in electric arcing as they mentioned.While I don't think it's brain surgery I would leave to a sparks to fix.
    Same way I let my wife do the laundry/dishes (not my specialty). :)


  • #46
    dpw11104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭dpw11104


    MrMac84 wrote: »
    Ya it's a very technical name it's called a "gauge ring extractor tool".yes thats exactly how the tool was named on my list of tools in 2001 for FAS ha ha..

    ANCO 1983 , cutting edge back then.


  • #47
    hufpc8w3adnk65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,158 ✭✭✭✭hufpc8w3adnk65


    It's still cutting edge as ive never met another electrician who has one in his tool box ha ha.mine is in the bottom of an old tool box in the back of the van gathering dust..was handy tho the 10 times I used it


  • #48
    dpw11104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭dpw11104


    MrMac84 wrote: »
    It's still cutting edge as ive never met another electrician who has one in his tool box ha ha.mine is in the bottom of an old tool box in the back of the van gathering dust..was handy tho the 10 times I used it

    Mine is at the mammy's house ,I am still put to work when I go back on holiday's.Another hot commodity was a bushing spanner for fitting in the trunking,constantly getting borrowed (nicked)on jobs.


  • #49
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    dpw11104 wrote: »
    It was done by people as a DIY quick fix
    Lots of things are done as a quick fix by the diy`er. And some are done by professionals as a temporary fix until the proper fix can be done.

    ,and if it is working people often leave it as is without replacing the gauge ring
    DIY and journeymen sparks might. That does not mean its dangerous when a proper sparks does it until they get a gauge ring to fix properly.
    .The gauge ring is to ensure the right size fuse goes in for the cable/load demand on that circuit.
    It ensures that too big a fuse wont go in. It wont ensure the correct size one goes in.
    Also , the fuse might not make good contact which could result in electric arcing as they mentioned.
    That is possible with any fuse, and is often the cause of needing a new gauge ring in the first place.
    While I don't think it's brain surgery I would leave to a sparks to fix.
    Same way I let my wife do the laundry/dishes (not my specialty). :)
    Not much in the average electrical work is brain surgery, but plenty doing it, would be better off at the laundry.


  • #50
    dpw11104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭dpw11104


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Lots of things are done as a quick fix by the diy`er. And some are done by professionals as a temporary fix until the proper fix can be done.



    DIY and journeymen sparks might. That does not mean its dangerous when a proper sparks does it until they get a gauge ring to fix properly.


    It ensures that too big a fuse wont go in. It wont ensure the correct size one goes in.


    That is possible with any fuse, and is often the cause of needing a new gauge ring in the first place.


    Not much in the average electrical work is brain surgery, but plenty doing it, would be better off at the laundry.

    Do you know why fuses sometimes make a humming sound ?


  • #51
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    dpw11104 wrote: »
    Do you know why fuses sometimes make a humming sound ?

    Don't know the lyrics?


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  • #52
    dpw11104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭dpw11104


    mikom wrote: »
    Don't know the lyrics?

    Yep :)


  • #53
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    dpw11104 wrote: »
    Do you know why fuses sometimes make a humming sound ?
    A test now is it?

    I never heard a domestic fuse humming. Just buzzing.

    If I disconnect the cpc from a shower at the DB, and measure the voltage at the shower from its L to E terminals, what will the voltmeter read, and why?:pac:

    Like I said, I used coins once or twice many years ago when stuck with no gauge rings, no buzzing, because the fuse was tight enough. Ever here a fuse buzzing that had no coin in it?

    Im still waiting for a description of what was the danger when a coin was used in place of a burnt gauge ring, overnight, until a new gauge ring was got? Not the DIY answers, as any DIY can be a danger, im talking about being left until fixed with new gauge ring. I already mentioned the too big a fuse possibility here...
    Bruthal wrote: »
    No real danger of anything major happening, the main problem was it allowed too big a fuse to be used if the proper gauge ring was not re fitted.
    But it was a coin placed into the fuse cap, with burnt gauge ring removed, until the next morning, not a DIY fix left for years.


  • #54
    hufpc8w3adnk65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,158 ✭✭✭✭hufpc8w3adnk65


    My bushing spanner is stored with the boss's stocks and dye in the conduit box with the bushs and couplers.the boss asked me for a loan of it about 10 years ago for a job another lad was on and then the boss decided that was the best place for it....not like it was mine or anything ha ha


  • #55
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Eugene Obedient Technologist wrote: »
    My bushing spanner is stored with the boss's stocks and dye in the conduit box with the bushs and couplers.the boss asked me for a loan of it about 10 years ago for a job another lad was on and then the boss decided that was the best place for it....not like it was mine or anything ha ha

    We made them as apprentices. Its probably disintegrated now at this stage.


  • #56
    dpw11104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭dpw11104


    Bruthal wrote: »
    A test now is it?

    I never heard a domestic fuse humming. Just buzzing.

    If I disconnect the cpc from a shower at the DB, and measure the voltage at the shower from its L to E terminals, what will the voltmeter read, and why?:pac:

    Like I said, I used coins once or twice many years ago when stuck with no gauge rings, no buzzing, because the fuse was tight enough. Ever here a fuse buzzing that had no coin in it?

    Im still waiting for a description of what was the danger when a coin was used in place of a burnt gauge ring, overnight, until a new gauge ring was got? Not the DIY answers, as any DIY can be a danger, im talking about being left until fixed with new gauge ring. I already mentioned the too big a fuse possibility here...

    But it was a coin placed into the fuse cap, with burnt gauge ring removed, until the next morning, not a DIY fix left for years.

    You sound like you know what your doing, I am simply recommending to anyone who doesn't to not do that ,wait til the next day and have someone in the know fix it would be the the safer option. Also, we used to use the old penny coins with the chicken on them in place of 1 pound coins in the old cigarette machines ,worked a treat.


  • #57
    Andrew_Doran
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭Andrew_Doran


    One shot on kill wrote: »
    Oh right I though it was in sorry work carried out is liable for inspection and should be certified doe.

    Yes that's the way it is.

    The CER is recommending 3 years in jail plus a €15,000 fine as the maximum penalty for any work carried out by a non-REC. They are also pushing for no exemptions for the home owner, so no legal way for a competent and tooled up person to do any electrical work in their own home. :(


  • #58
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    [RANT]

    When I read this sort of carp, that's when I am happy to be 62 and not 26, If we carry on with this sort of stupidity, I will have to have a locksmith come to my house to open the door so that I can go in, and a member of the PSA to unset my alarm for me before the electrician turns my light on for me.

    The plumber will then have to fill my kettle and turn the gas on so that I can have a cup of tea, and with the way things are going, I will need a health and safety inspector to check that my tea is safe to drink before I can actually drink it.

    There will then be so many people in the house, I will have to get a local authority inspector out to certify that the property is not overcrowded.

    Oh, I forgot the mechanic that will have to drive my car for me as that is also regarded as a dangerous device that is not safe for the ordinary man to operate unsupervised.

    This bo**ockology has to be stopped, and people made to take responsibility for their actions, at all levels, and the ambulance chasing solicitors that waste so much time and money for everyone else put well and truly back down their holes.

    Who do these idiots that come up with these crazy ideas think is going to pay for this asinine level of overprotection?

    Don't get me wrong, there are certain jobs I will not undertake, but for many of the "specialist" things that now require registration etc, I am totally capable of doing them, and have done so, without falling foul of the relevant inspectors or testers, and without killing myself or anyone else. At various times, and in various juristictions, that's included working on Electricity, Gas, LPG, High Power RF electronics, and the like,

    It may well be the case that a lot of 26 year olds are not capable of working with some of these technologies, but at this stage, I am, through the school of hard knocks. If that's the case, then it's the education system that's wrong, not the trade, and no amount of over protection and regulation will solve the problems

    What is really winding me up is that the supervisory bodies are charging huge sums for entry to their exclusive clubs, and all too often, there is no real benefit to the end consumer in these things being there.

    Years ago, the restrictive practises of the trade unions in the UK were broken by the Government, on the basis that they restricted trade and business and provided very little real benefit to business. The sort of stupidity that went on included nearly having 7000 people out on strike because I'd delivered a desktop calculator to a manager in his office, and because they were manufactured to go to all countries, there was no plug fitted, so I got one from B & Q, and fitted it, with an appropriate 3 Amp fuse to replace the 13 Amp one. The electicians union got to hear about it, and tried to shut down the whole company. Fortunately for all concerned, the rules had been misinterpreted, and did not apply to the administration area, so the problem was solved.

    The same stupidity is now coming back in the disguise of things like Health & Safety, and where that can't be used, other methods like the Private Security Agency are being brought in. The result is that my daughter has a minor fault on her alarm, but I'm supposed to be registered to fix it. All it needs is a new battery in a sensor, it's the same as changing a battery in a torch, but to be legally allowed to do that, I am supposed to spend a fortune on being "certified", and another fortune on being "registered" and another fortune on being "revalidated" every so often. Oh yes, I forgot the exorbitent charges for regular updates of the all important regulations, and the equally crazy prices for the all important books of certificates that make it all legal. ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!

    That's the sort of total garbage that has this country as screwed up as it is. The 3.6 Volt battery will cost less than €5, but to get a member of the PSA out to fit it will probably cost closer to €50. And before someone jumps down my throat, for the PSA member, he probably has to charge that sort of level of on cost to cover the obscene level of extra costs that he's being hit with by all of this stupidity.

    On the other side of the coin, just to put it into context, I have a fully automatic self starting 3 phase standby diesel generator here, with a 3 phase input single phase output 16 Kva UPS, using a 324 V DC battery bank backing it up, and all the installation and commisioning work for that was done by me, inspected by ESB, and they passed it first time with no hassles. My "offical" trade by the way, was and is computers. The rest of the electrical stuff happened over time due to the size of some of the computers,

    In the 70's so 40 years ago, we bought 2 old cottages as they stood, ripped the innards out, and converted them to a 5 bed 2000 sq ft detached cottage, and I did all the electrics, gas and plumbing, it was inspected without any issues, and commisioned, I had one leak, behind the bath, I'd not soldered up a 3/4 to 22 mm conversion socket, it was on the hot liine and had a flux bridge so didn't leak till it got hot. We did that job at the time when the UK was going metric on plumbing, but there was still a mountain of imperial fittings and the like to be used up. We lived there until 1986, and had no issues with any of the services.

    I have no problem with the concept of regulation, what I am totally unhappy about is the other side of that coin which seeks to crminalise someone for doing a simple task that they are totally competent to do. What adds insult to injury is when I see some of the work that has been done in recent years by people that are supposedly trained and qualified.

    [/RANT]

    I could say more, but I hope that the point has been made.

    By all means inspect my work, and if it's not up to standard, throw me out of the regulatory body, but don't make it so damned expensive for me to be in that body in the first place that there is a very strong temptation to say to hell with being registered as I don't do anything like enough of that type of work to justify it.



    P.S. Who do I have to get the certificate from to say that I can have a good F**T before I go to bed???

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #59
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    dpw11104 wrote: »
    You sound like you know what your doing, I am simply recommending to anyone who doesn't to not do that ,wait til the next day and have someone in the know fix it would be the the safer option.

    That sounds like good advice.


  • #60
    dpw11104
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 ✭dpw11104


    P.S. Who do I have to get the certificate from to say that I can have a good F**T before I go to bed???

    Bord Gais , will send a crew there in the morning.


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  • #61
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    dpw11104 wrote: »
    P.S. Who do I have to get the certificate from to say that I can have a good F**T before I go to bed???

    Bord Gais , will send a crew there in the morning.

    No good, if I drop one that smells as bad as their stuff does, I won't be allowed get anywhere NEAR the bed, let alone get INTO it:D:D:D


    Was actually wondering about a SafePass, the most recent rumour I heard about them was that they were mainly about how to use a chemical bog and leave it in a fit state for the next user ;););)

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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