UK teen commits suicide after being brought to court over 50p of cannabis

B.A._Baracus · 24-02-2013 02:10AM

carrig2 wrote: »

I am not a Garda. Neither was my father. Or brothers or husband or best friends etc.,
When is it ok to have an illegal substance, how much is ok?
How much is ok to steal from someone before it is serious?
How much can someone hit someone else before it crosses the line between ok and not ok?

Not to go off topic... but you know what. I've noticed you cant say a single bad word against the police force/gardai on here.

it doesnt matter if someone said "1 out of every 1000 gardai is a prick" - no. thats too much. that person hates the gardai! he must be disproven in his or her opinion. the gardai are lovely people, etc etc.

juice1304 · 24-02-2013 02:10AM

It's more as a result of impressionable, ignorant bigots that have to think they are some how morally better than someone else. It's like a meat eater telling someone that hunts that they are a bad person. Ignorance is bliss.

juice1304 · 24-02-2013 02:17AM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Not to go off topic... but you know what. I've noticed you cant say a single bad word against the police force/gardai on here.

it doesnt matter if someone said "1 out of every 1000 gardai is a prick" - no. thats too much. that person hates the gardai! he must be disproven in his or her opinion. the gardai are lovely people, etc etc.

I pity the fool.:D

Jester252 · 24-02-2013 02:22AM

Was there a link to the story not fron a loaded site? I can see why he was called to court. The kid pulled for this once before so a second time a cop would have seen that he didn't learn his lession. Sent him to court while underage no charge and a telling off from the judge. As hes underage his records would be locked and wouldn't follow him. Also if he was acting up to the cops when he was pulled I can see why they throw the book at him.
Its a sad story but the cops can't be held responsible. He decided to carry a substance he knew was illegal.

juice1304 · 24-02-2013 02:26AM

Jester252 wrote: »

Was there a link to the story not fron a loaded site? I can see why he was called to court. The kid pulled for this once before so a second time a cop would have seen that he didn't learn his lession. Sent him to court while underage no charge and a telling off from the judge. As hes underage his records would be locked and wouldn't follow him. Also if he was acting up to the cops when he was pulled I can see why they throw the book at him.
Its a sad story but the cops can't be held responsible. He decided to carry a substance he knew was illegal.

Thats not true your records don't get wiped clean when you become an adult that is a myth. And in england you are only ment to go to court for cannabis possession on your third warning. first is a verbal warning then a fine and then a conviction. 50p worth of cannabis would have been about the size of a grain of rice.

juice1304 · 24-02-2013 07:44AM

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/50p-drugs-case-youth-killed-himself-29090286.html

"A spokesman for Pannone said: "All in all there were at least seven opportunities to spot and rectify the error that were missed. An internal report by the force has recommended a number of significant changes to procedures."

It is thought on the day Edward died, he first went to Manchester city centre before heading to Didsbury park, where he hanged himself. His body was discovered by a jogger.

According to reports, a note to his parents, the summons notice and the court notice were found near his body.

Manchester coroner Nigel Meadows, who recorded a verdict of suicide at Edward's inquest on Friday, did not link the police errors directly with the youngster's death. However, he acknowledged that Devon and Cornwall Police had since introduced procedural changes as a direct result of Edward's case."

Grayson · 24-02-2013 08:03AM

catallus wrote: »

Isn't hemp legally cultivated, licenced and distributed worldwide, in the west, anyway? Although in Japan they are talking about banning it due to the massive rise (from 0%) in teenage cannabis use. Anyway aren't hemp products considered antediluvian at this stage?.

No. Well, not in a lot of them. I don't know about all the countries in the west, but in the US for example hemp is illegal. It's one of the reasons marajuana is illegal.

http://voices.yahoo.com/a-history-criminalization-marijuana-6010748.html

Grayson · 24-02-2013 08:11AM

carrig2 wrote: »

An illegal substance is an illegal substance. End of.
Also it was not the first time.
It is a tragic story but don't blame the police

carrig2 wrote: »

I am not a Garda. Neither was my father. Or brothers or husband or best friends etc.,
When is it ok to have an illegal substance, how much is ok?
How much is ok to steal from someone before it is serious?
How much can someone hit someone else before it crosses the line between ok and not ok?

You want to go down that road? So, there's no difference between having a tiny amount and having say 3 kilos?

Or between going 5 miles over the speed limit and or trying to drift around a roundabout at 80 miles per hour?

Thankfully, there are rational people who recognise the difference. And those people are called judges, police, the CPS and well, in general adults who aren't retarded.

In this case the police themselves admit that even by their standards he shouldn't have been charged. He had already been cautioned and was told it would not result in a criminal charge. But someone stuck his case into the wrong envelope and he got charged.

So, you're of the opinion that he should have been charged? And then punished for a tiny amount of the drug?

Bloody*Mary · 24-02-2013 01:32PM

Temaz wrote: »

Tragic case.

http://norml-uk.org/2013/02/britains-cannabis-policy-more-harmful-than-drug/

Very tragic,but if the lad feared the consequences that much,maybe he should have given the stuff a wide berth.

Terrible event,but that's the law.

I don't necessarily agree,but themselves the rules.

mikom · 24-02-2013 02:47PM

Bloody*Mary wrote: »

Very tragic,but if the lad feared the consequences that much,maybe he should have given the stuff a wide berth.

Terrible event,but that's the law.

I don't necessarily agree,but themselves the rules.

Suicide for a flower in your pocket.
Them's the rules.........

Yet the lad could have morning glory or Ricinus communis seeds in his pocket and walk away unaccosted.

This world is upside down, yet folks are happy to go along with it and take the casualties in this unwinnable war.
The odd suicide here, the crushing of travel plans there, tie up some police and courts time here, some free (tax payer funded) legal aid there.

Shur, it's the law.
Don't carry flowers in your pocket.

HondaSami · 24-02-2013 04:47PM

Grayson wrote: »

So, you're of the opinion that he should have been charged? And then punished for a tiny amount of the drug?

I don't think he should be charged for this no but he had all ready got a warning, now if he was so intent on travelling then he should have known the dangers of getting caught with drugs, regardless of the amount.

We have no idea if this is the only reason he choose to take his own life, why did he not go to his parents for help? why not go to the police and ask about the summons?

If it were my son i would be more concerned in why he could not come to me with his problems than looking for someone else to blame.
I would say disappointing his parents was the reason he did not tell them, maybe pressure to do well was also a reason.

Madam_X · 24-02-2013 04:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yup, I hate when deaths are used to push agendas.

Well suicide in this case, to be more specific.

Bloody*Mary · 24-02-2013 05:08PM

mikom wrote: »

Suicide for a flower in your pocket.
Them's the rules.........

Yet the lad could have morning glory or Ricinus communis seeds in his pocket and walk away unaccosted.

This world is upside down, yet folks are happy to go along with it and take the casualties in this unwinnable war.
The odd suicide here, the crushing of travel plans there, tie up some police and courts time here, some free (tax payer funded) legal aid there.

Shur, it's the law.
Don't carry flowers in your pocket.

There you go, if the law says you will go down for carrying tea bags in your pocket,unles you are prepared to take the consequence, don't carry tea bags.

It's that simple.

This world is upside down in your opinion, very many would not agree.

It's called democracy.

mikom · 24-02-2013 05:11PM

Bloody*Mary wrote: »

There you go, if the law says you will go down for carrying tea bags in your pocket,unles you are prepared to take the consequence, don't carry tea bags.

It's that simple.

This world is upside down in your opinion, very many would not agree.

It's called democracy.

Remind me again........ What was the reason for banning cannabis on this isle?

A follow up question.
If a law came in tomorrow banning chocolate and alcohol, would you abide by it?

Bloody*Mary · 24-02-2013 05:15PM

mikom wrote: »

Remind me again........ What was the reason for banning cannabis on this isle?

No idea and frankly not interested.

The FACTS are that the stuff is banned.

If that is the case,then that is the case.

People need to evaluate the consequences of breaking the law

mikom · 24-02-2013 05:18PM

Bloody*Mary wrote: »

No idea and frankly not interested.

Close-minded Ireland encapsulated in a post.
Not much else I can do for you, I'm afraid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJiYrRcfQo

Bloody*Mary · 24-02-2013 05:27PM

mikom wrote: »

Close-minded Ireland encapsulated in a post.
Not much else I can do for you, I'm afraid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJiYrRcfQo

No problem at all, I can manage my life perfectly without resort to cannabis.

You should really open your mind a little though,and realise that the availability of drugs is not the number one concern of most citizens.

The kind of attitude you seem to display epitomises close-minded Ireland.

I fell however that luckily it is only embraced by a few people who maybe are a little disillusioned with life.

AudreyHepburn · 24-02-2013 05:33PM

A tragic story to be sure.

However instead of trying to delude ourselves that everyone and their mother is to blame lets try to be realistic.

This young man clearly had serious mental problems which I have no doubt were not being helped by his consumption of drugs. He was carrying illegal substances and had recieved warnings before so the police were right to arrest him. Lets not be so full of it that we are critiquing them for doing their job.

The arrest did not kill him, the police did not kill him. He took his own life. A horrible lonely tragic end to a young life. If you really must blame something then blame whatever mental illness or intolerable pain led him to this end.

Anything else is petty and helps no one.

Bloody*Mary · 24-02-2013 05:38PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

A tragic story to be sure.

However instead of trying to delude ourselves that everyone and their mother is to blame lets try to be realistic.

This young man clearly had serious mental problems which I have no doubt were not being helped by his consumption of drugs. He was carrying illegal substances and had recieved warnings before so the police were right to arrest him. Lets not be so full of it that we are critiquing them for doing their job.

The arrest did not kill him, the police did not kill him. He took his own life. A horrible lonely tragic end to a young life. If you really must blame something then blame whatever mental illness or intolerable pain led him to this end.

Anything else is petty and helps no one.

That sums up the dangers of drug consumption indeed.

Especially for that tragic case.

mikom · 24-02-2013 05:38PM

Bloody*Mary wrote: »

No problem at all, I can manage my life perfectly without resort to cannabis.

This is about more than just the availability of cannabis.
It's about decisions that are made on your behalf by your "betters".
You know like...... women having to leave their jobs in the civil service once they got married, the illegality of contraception, the illegality of homosexual acts, the illegality of suicide, the tally stick" or "bata scoir", imprisonment in magdalene laundries etc.
You would have been happy enough to trot along with that lot, would you?

Bloody*Mary wrote: »

You should really open your mind a little though,and realise that the availability of drugs is not the number one concern of most citizens.
The kind of attitude you seem to display epitomises close-minded Ireland.

It is pretty important to most tobacco smokers, chocolate eaters, and social drinkers.
You keep missing the point Bloody*Mary.
You come across as having an "I'm alright Jack" attitude.

Bloody*Mary wrote: »

I fell however that luckily it is only embraced by a few people who maybe are a little disillusioned with life.

You seem a little out of touch, because cannabis use is widespread.
Have you ever wondered how all the growshops on this Isle stay in business?

Grayson · 24-02-2013 05:38PM

Bloody*Mary wrote: »

No problem at all, I can manage my life perfectly without resort to cannabis.

You should really open your mind a little though,and realise that the availability of drugs is not the number one concern of most citizens.

The kind of attitude you seem to display epitomises close-minded Ireland.

I fell however that luckily it is only embraced by a few people who maybe are a little disillusioned with life.

I think his issue was with the fact that you blindly follow the law and don't really care why a law is present or if a law is just. The fact that it's the law would appear to be enough to get you to shove a Jew onto an eastbound train.

So it's rather ironic that someone who has slavish unquestioning obedience to the law would call someone else close minded

Bloody*Mary · 24-02-2013 05:49PM

Grayson wrote: »

I think his issue was with the fact that you blindly follow the law and don't really care why a law is present or if a law is just. The fact that it's the law would appear to be enough to get you to shove a Jew onto an eastbound train.

So it's rather ironic that someone who has slavish unquestioning obedience to the law would call someone else close minded

Little bit of over egging there poster.

It's not that I don't care and blindly follow the law.

The question was "why was cannabis banned on this isle".

Now for exactly as I have no idea or have no interest in why 120kmh is the speed limit on motorways,doesn't mean I don't care or don' follow the law.

I have enough cop on to know that it is there for a reason like the cannabis ban.

I don't have a lot of interest in the precise reason, if you can pardon me on that

My name is URL · 24-02-2013 05:52PM

Bloody*Mary wrote: »

No idea and frankly not interested.

The FACTS are that the stuff is banned.

If that is the case,then that is the case.

People need to evaluate the consequences of breaking the law

Homosexuality and contraception were illegal until relatively recently. Should people have just accepted that at the time and lived their lives to suit the ideal of the state?

Nothing can progress without a driving force behind it. I wonder how unquestioning you'd be of the 'law' if you lived in some backward country practicing Sharia.

mikom · 24-02-2013 05:52PM

My spider senses are telling me that Flutterin bantam/johnbiffo is trolling/posting on this thread.
Not looking at anyone in particular.........

Grayson · 24-02-2013 05:55PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

A tragic story to be sure.

However instead of trying to delude ourselves that everyone and their mother is to blame lets try to be realistic.

This young man clearly had serious mental problems which I have no doubt were not being helped by his consumption of drugs. He was carrying illegal substances and had recieved warnings before so the police were right to arrest him. Lets not be so full of it that we are critiquing them for doing their job.

The arrest did not kill him, the police did not kill him. He took his own life. A horrible lonely tragic end to a young life. If you really must blame something then blame whatever mental illness or intolerable pain led him to this end.

Anything else is petty and helps no one.

Where's your evidence that he was abusing drugs on a regular basis? or is it because he's dead you feel safe making accusations?
BTW, the police didn't do their job correctly. they mismanaged his case which resulted in a charge. I don't think anyone is disagreeing that if a policeman finds a kid with drugs, that they shouldn't do their job. People are saying that it was stupid to press charges and it was a stupid law in the first place.

Although, if I'm honest, I do think that it's a dickish thing to do to arrest someone for an amount of a weak drug that wouldn't fit on half your little finger. He could have been arresting a junkie who's shooting up on a bus instead.

EazyD · 24-02-2013 05:55PM

I'm genuinely amazed by the sheer ignorance of some posters here, debating the "blame" aspect of such a scenario. Did anyone think of possibly stepping back and actually assessing the real problem that exists(the system). Only recently the British government re-classified cannabis to a higher grouping, included among other substances like barbituarates etc.... If everyone were to exhibit the same ignorance many are showing here, we wouldn't be far as a society truth be told. Perspective and tolerance seem to be lacking in abundance.

Grayson · 24-02-2013 05:58PM

Bloody*Mary wrote: »

I have enough cop on to know that it is there for a reason like the cannabis ban.

I don't have a lot of interest in the precise reason, if you can pardon me on that

So what you're saying is that you have no idea why it's illegal? And you don't care? But you're happy judging people based on something you don't know anything about?

Do you trust the government on everything?

Grayson · 24-02-2013 05:59PM

EazyD wrote: »

I'm genuinely amazed by the sheer ignorance of some posters here, debating the "blame" aspect of such a scenario. Did anyone think of possibly stepping back and actually assessing the real problem that exists(the system). Only recently the British government re-classified cannabis to a higher grouping, included among other substances like barbituarates etc.... If everyone were to exhibit the same ignorance many are showing here, we wouldn't be far as a society truth be told. Perspective and tolerance seem to be lacking in abundance.

I can't quite tell who you're aiming that at. You're saying people are ignorant without actually saying who or what they said. I'd guess that you're refering to people who are pro canabis?

Steve O · 24-02-2013 06:09PM

If history has taught us anything, its that making it illegal will not eradicate the use of it.

Regulation and legalisation is the best of both worlds as you get a clean product and tax going into public coffers.

jill_valentine · 24-02-2013 06:14PM

Leaving aside the exact relationship between his arrest and his suicide, I think it's pretty blatantly insane to invest so much of a pressurised justice system's time and effort into a case as absurdly trivial as this. Does anybody genuinely believe that society as a whole would have benefited from it even if the kid had lived?

UK teen commits suicide after being brought to court over 50p of cannabis

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