Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

Silentcorner · 19-02-2013 10:41PM

not yet wrote: »

I work in the PS.....don't you know we are overstaffed and all sitting round with nothing to do.

You didn't take the poll did you...you made it up right

not yet · 19-02-2013 10:42PM

Paulzx wrote: »

Probably did it when you were on OT:D

Oh yeah forgot about that..

not yet · 19-02-2013 10:44PM

Vizzy wrote: »

and we are there 24/7 and getting paid bucket loads of allowances and overtime to carry out straw polls.

Yeah but My pension is bigger then yours and I pay 99 cent a week for 200k lump sum....good value eh.

not yet · 19-02-2013 10:44PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

You didn't take the poll did you...you made it up right

You got me.......

Silvio.Dante · 19-02-2013 10:47PM

kceire wrote: »

That's strange, the cost for me to buy ones years notional service was 13k and from looking at examples on www.askaboutmoney.com the 13k I was quoted was cheap! A lot of people being charged 16k per year etc

Are you sure it's only €12 per week and how long do you have to pay this for?
I was not aware that you could buy NSP's on long term payment plans.

12 net, 15 gross a week for the next 26 years...

Gumbo · 19-02-2013 10:52PM

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

12 net, 15 gross a week for the next 26 years...

16k for nine years notational service. I'm stumped. I can't say I don't believe you but I'm actually stumped at how you can get that at that price?

Silvio.Dante · 19-02-2013 10:56PM

kceire wrote: »

16k for nine years notational service. I'm stumped. I can't say I don't believe you but I'm actually stumped at how you can get that at that price?

I started three years ago and it ends on my 65th birthday. It's all kosher and bona fide. My payroll section gave me the quote and I snapped their hand off. I'll be paying it for 29 years in total...

Gumbo · 19-02-2013 10:58PM

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I started three years ago and it ends on my 65th birthday. It's all kosher and bona fide. My payroll section gave me the quote and I snapped their hand off. I'll be paying it for 29 years in total...

Even adding in your added years, you are getting nothing for free. Add up what you are paying and see if it can be achieved through a private fund for cheaper.

K-9 · 19-02-2013 11:39PM

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

My Cerebral Palsey prevents me from doing so...:)

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I'm asking you show solidarity with low paid celrical staff and the Nation and keep your status and accet a re-adjustment to your gold plated premium payments...

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

:D:D

Enough, do not post in this thread again.

K-9 · 19-02-2013 11:42PM

not yet wrote: »

Your trolling yeah.......

not yet wrote: »

This soften you're cough a bit...........

As above, do not post in this thread again, both of ye are about long enough to know better.

Edit:
Thread back open again, we can keep banning people until we are left with a select few who are actually willing to rationally and civilly discuss the thread subject.

jank · 20-02-2013 12:22AM

kceire wrote: »

What would you like done to ps pensions?
Can I keep my pension contributions and levies and reclaim all my previous payments if they are scrapped?

Make them defined contribution rather then defined benefit. The state has only a few billion of assets to backup over 100 billion of liabilities. Its totally unsustainable in the long run.

Hotblack Desiato · 20-02-2013 12:41AM

There is no 100 billion liability and to discuss unfunded public sector pensions in terms of the notional fund that 'would' be needed is a nonsense.

jank · 20-02-2013 02:12AM

Not sure what you are saying. Are you saying there is no underfunding of state pensions in Ireland?

Gumbo · 20-02-2013 09:10AM

jank wrote: »

Not sure what you are saying. Are you saying there is no underfunding of state pensions in Ireland?

PS pensions are paid on income/outcome basis. There is no pot. Exiting staff pay their contributions and levy and the pensioners are paid from this.

are you saying there is an underfunding of the state pension COAP?

Hotblack Desiato · 20-02-2013 09:10AM

Yes because they are not funded, it's pay as you go. Contributions come in from current employees and payments go out to current retirees.

Riskymove · 20-02-2013 09:14AM

jank wrote: »

Not sure what you are saying. Are you saying there is no underfunding of state pensions in Ireland?

The Pension Reserve fund is supposed to take over the payment of pensions eventually.

However, at present the situation is that public penions are paid of current funds each year. So rather than an issue about a deficit in a pension fund, the issue will be the growing cost of pensions each year as more and more pensioners exist.

some actions have been taken to reduce the costs in the future and more are likely

Farmer Pudsey · 20-02-2013 10:28AM

kceire wrote: »

PS pensions are paid on income/outcome basis. There is no pot. Exiting staff pay their contributions and levy and the pensioners are paid from this.

are you saying there is an underfunding of the state pension COAP?

There is a huge longterm liability regarding public and oad age pensions. Historically funding out of day to day income was an issue. This was because in the PS most workers historicall worked until they were over 60. this has changed over the last 10 years. You also had the demographic that workers only drew the pension for on average maybe 10ish years. It is projected that currens ps pensioners will draw for 20ish 9 maybe even an average of mid 20 years) years due to demographic. This will put a huge burden on the state.

The OAP is the same the government has changed the conditions of this by one incresing the age limit up from 65 to 68 and by increasing the number of years contribution to qualify for maximun pension from a minimum of 20 to a minimum of 30 years contributions.

Funding of fucture pensions out of day to day spending will not be possible. We had set up the pension reserve fund but the ECB/EMF forced us to raid it to support the banks. This was etically wrong just like the government raiding private sector pension funds to fund so called employment creation schemes.

Contributors that fail to realise the long term signifiance of the pension issue we face are blinded by shortterm thinking.

ardmacha · 20-02-2013 11:07AM

You also had the demographic that workers only drew the pension for on average maybe 10ish years. It is projected that currens ps pensioners will draw for 20ish 9 maybe even an average of mid 20 years) years due to demographic. This will put a huge burden on the state.

Exactly. There is no particular problem with pay as you go pension for the State, especially if there is a small smoothing fund which is drawn on in poor times like the present. There is a problem with increasing life expectancy and this does require late retirement. In my opinion you should not be offered a fixed retirement age when a 20 year old joins, but rather life expectancy -15 or suchlike then when you are within 10-15 years of retirement a date could be fixed.

sarumite · 20-02-2013 12:07PM

ardmacha wrote: »

Exactly. There is no particular problem with pay as you go pension for the State, especially if there is a small smoothing fund which is drawn on in poor times like the present.

There is an accounting problem in so far as we don't know whether enough or too much is being put into the pensions scheme. The current pension fund is well stocked since we have relatively fewer penioners compared to PS workers as the number of workers steadily increased during the boom. However as we are projected to have a smaller, leaner PS in the coming years, this trend will be reversed as PS staff retire and are not replaced. This could lead to a sustained deficit in PS contributions, however by time we get to this stage it will be more difficult to fix the problem.

sean200 · 20-02-2013 04:50PM

kceire wrote: »

PS pensions are paid on income/outcome basis. There is no pot. Exiting staff pay their contributions and levy and the pensioners are paid from this.

are you saying there is an underfunding of the state pension COAP?

But public servents also pay PRSI for a state old age pension they never get so it could be said they are funding the private sector on there old age pensions

20-02-2013 04:55PM

sean200 wrote: »

But public servents also pay PRSI for a state old age pension they never get so it could be said they are funding the private sector on there old age pensions

PRSI also includes the non-means tested dole. I assume retired civil servants could avail of it? Is it only post 1996 PS workers that pay PRSI? If compulsory redundancies come in, then paying PRSI will have its benefits.

Godge · 20-02-2013 04:58PM

jh79 wrote: »

PRSI also includes the non-means tested dole. I assume retired civil servants could avail of it? Is it only post 1996 PS workers that pay PRSI? If compulsory redundancies come in, then paying PRSI will have its benefits.

Compulsory redundancies will not come in. I will put money on that.

Some sort of "refuse three redeployments and you are out" might come in but compulsory redundancies as is normally understood will not come in no matter what any pundit/economist/IBEC/blogger/boards poster says.

20-02-2013 05:03PM

Godge wrote: »

Compulsory redundancies will not come in. I will put money on that.

Some sort of "refuse three redeployments and you are out" might come in but compulsory redundancies as is normally understood will not come in no matter what any pundit/economist/IBEC/blogger/boards poster says.

If the unions refuse to negotiate it might, but it is unlikely. Do only some pay PRSI, ie the newer entrants (post 1996?) as they are on contracts and in theory can be let go and may need job seekers benefit in the future?

frankosw · 20-02-2013 05:51PM

jh79 wrote: »

If the unions refuse to negotiate it might,

It wont...

frankosw · 20-02-2013 05:53PM

jh79 wrote: »

Do only some pay PRSI, ie the newer entrants (post 1996?) as they are on contracts and in theory can be let go and may need job seekers benefit in the future?

No..everybody pays PRSI whether you're on a contract or not.

Unlike the private sector of course where there's no way of checking who is paying thier contributions and alot of them dont bother.

Godge · 20-02-2013 06:43PM

jh79 wrote: »

If the unions refuse to negotiate it might, but it is unlikely. Do only some pay PRSI, ie the newer entrants (post 1996?) as they are on contracts and in theory can be let go and may need job seekers benefit in the future?

SW14 gives the full details

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/SW14.pdf

Most employees are Class A.

Public servants before 6 April 1995 are Class B, C or D.

There is also a leaflet explaining the different benefits for different classes - I have a hard copy somewhere but I don't see it online.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/What-benefits-may-I-get-under-each-PRSI-class.aspx

Edit: found it

Farmer Pudsey · 20-02-2013 09:34PM

frankosw wrote: »

No..everybody pays PRSI whether you're on a contract or not.

Unlike the private sector of course where there's no way of checking who is paying thier contributions and alot of them dont bother.

How do you make that out. All employers ( private or public) are mandated to collect and pay PRSI for there workers. All self employed have to make a tax return and PRSI is part of this .

Are you insinuating something about the private sector.

Vizzy · 20-02-2013 09:38PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

How do you make that out. All employers ( private or public) are mandated to collect and pay PRSI for there workers. All self employed have to make a tax return and PRSI is part of this .

Are you insinuating something about the private sector.

Pudsey,have you ever heard of "cash in hand" ?

Gumbo · 20-02-2013 09:40PM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

How do you make that out. All employers ( private or public) are mandated to collect and pay PRSI for there workers. All self employed have to make a tax return and PRSI is part of this .

Are you insinuating something about the private sector.

I'd imagine its a similar post to
"All public servants earn 50k and get benefits coming out of their ears"

While we know that the majority of private sectors self employed people pay their taxes perfectly, there will always be a few that don't and tarnish the good name of the rest.

Just like there are last PS staff that do earn big money and tarnish the name of the decent hard working staff. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Farmer Pudsey · 20-02-2013 09:57PM

Vizzy wrote: »

Pudsey,have you ever heard of "cash in hand" ?

kceire wrote: »

I'd imagine its a similar post to
"All public servants earn 50k and get benefits coming out of their ears"

While we know that the majority of private sectors self employed people pay their taxes perfectly, there will always be a few that don't and tarnish the good name of the rest.

Just like there are last PS staff that do earn big money and tarnish the name of the decent hard working staff. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Like I have stated before in other threads the black economy exists in every economy in the world. It has existed since tax first began. Smuggling of wine, spirits and luxury good was rife until about 150 years ago.

Most people when they have a chance exceed there duty free allowance when travelling.

Many PS earn money on the side teachers doing grinds, trained professionals such as engineers and accountants doing work on the side. PS tradesmen doing tommers. How many Guards are landlords or have small enterprises (doing a bit of painting or gardening). How many of these declare this income's in the full knowledge that they will have to give over half of that income to there fellow PS the Taxman. If a poor farmer is selling a site about 50% of purchassers will be PS who may offer part of the payment in cash.

By the way I have never sold a site.

When tax rates increase the Black economy increses it is proabally the second oldest part of any economy. I do not condone it but understand the economics behind it.

Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

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