What is a PC Brigade and how has it stifled you?

awec · 19-02-2013 03:46PM

twinQuins wrote: »

Yeah, I think calling a gay person a ****** or using racial epithets would fall under 'being a dick'.

Would you disagree with that?

So? Do those words stitch your lips close or prevent your fingers from typing? Are you unable to respond to being called those things?

That isn't the point being made here.

If I am offended by the word dick, what does that make you? An intolerant bigot?

So? The idea that everyone who doesn't conform to PC views is a xenophobe, racist or whatever is an absolutely idiotic notion and the fact that these terms are thrown about so loosely says more about those who are throwing them about.

awec · 19-02-2013 03:48PM

B0jangles wrote: »

I don't see any irony?

Consider the following:

Person 1: <makes a "make me a sammich"-type joke>

Person 2: (offended) "that's not funny and I think it's pretty sexist"

Person 1: (offended)"I was just joking, you've no sense of humour, how dare you call me sexist, it's PC gone MAAAAD" etc

Would you defend Person 1's right to say what they want and also their right to not be criticised for it, but dismiss Person 2's right to be offended?

Asking someone to make a sandwich is sexist now? :eek:

I am offended by the notion that this is offensive.

StormWarrior · 19-02-2013 03:49PM

Hamiltonion wrote: »

1. sexuality is not. Church and state should be separate.

2.Pedophiles are a small % of the population

1. who says anything about the church here? And I thought earlier someone pointed out that sexuality and transgender aren't the same thing? I think deciding to have a sex change is a choice, and some people who have sex changes end up reverting to their original sex so clealry in some cases it's the wrong choice. But that is beside the point. It has nothing to do with the toilet issue.

2. Transsexuals are an even smaller % so why should so much money be spent and so many people made unhappy by this decision for a tiny minority?

Jester252 · 19-02-2013 03:50PM

This reminds me of the time where things were going to be lower to suit little people. Should we not try to suit the majority.

Lyaiera · 19-02-2013 03:51PM

StormWarrior wrote: »

2. Transsexuals are an even smaller % so why should so much money be spent and so many people made unhappy by this decision for a tiny minority?

So it's perfectly fair to persecute only a few people?

twinQuins · 19-02-2013 03:51PM

awec wrote: »

That isn't the point being made here.

If I am offended by the word dick, what does that make you? An intolerant bigot?

If you just want play whataboutery I won't be joining you. I made a point, you went off on this dick thing, I clarified, you're still going on about this dick thing... okay.

If you just don't want to address the point I made you can say so and I'll stop addressing you.

So? The idea that everyone who doesn't conform to PC views is a xenophobe, racist or whatever is an absolutely idiotic notion and the fact that these terms are thrown about so loosely says more about those who are throwing them about.

Ah but I didn't say that, did I? Now, would you care to answer the question I actually posed.

awec · 19-02-2013 03:52PM

For what it's worth, I am all for equality but the "PC brigade" (or at least those with excessive views on what is "offensive") do more harm than good IMO and just cause people to become defensive and entrenched in their opinions.

megafan · 19-02-2013 03:52PM

Lyaiera wrote: »

Is "indigenous" a special title for women who don't want unisex toilets? I've never heard it used that way before.

Stormwarrior is just being PC whats ment is Loo's for Irish women only not having to share with other nationalities or races

old hippy · 19-02-2013 03:52PM

Jester252 wrote: »

This reminds me of the time where things were going to be lower to suit little people. Should we not try to suit the majority.

We should try equality for all.

StormWarrior · 19-02-2013 03:53PM

old hippy wrote: »

Yes, I'm sure all those who have been racially abused, beaten, had dog**** posted through their letterboxes or swastikas painted on their windows lead terribly sheltered lives. Damn them for wanting equality and an end to discrimination.

I find it quite odd that people go on about how many transexuals are beaten/abused for being transexual. Stories of that magnitude would make it into the media, and they hardly ever do. I have known 5 transsexuals and none have ever been beaten or even had anything said to them about it. The worst they've had is people staring at them, which is hardly surprising when you're a huge man in a dress.

old hippy · 19-02-2013 03:53PM

Fintan O’ Toole on the PC

We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug.

Lyaiera · 19-02-2013 03:55PM

StormWarrior wrote: »

I find it quite odd that people go on about how many transexuals are beaten/abused for being transexual. Stories of that magnitude would make it into the media, and they hardly ever do. I have known 5 transsexuals and none have ever been beaten or even had anything said to them about it. The worst they've had is people staring at them, which is hardly surprising when you're a huge man in a dress.

Every transexual I know has suffered abuse. The large proportion of them have suffered physical abuse. Anecdata, sure. But to be honest I doubt any of the "transexuals" you might know care one whit about you considering you described them as "a huge man in a dress" you transphobe.

19-02-2013 03:55PM

StormWarrior wrote: »

I find it quite odd that people go on about how many transexuals are beaten/abused for being transexual. Stories of that magnitude would make it into the media, and they hardly ever do. I have known 5 transsexuals and none have ever been beaten or even had anything said to them about it. The worst they've had is people staring at them, which is hardly surprising when you're a huge man in a dress.

How well do you know these five people?

StormWarrior · 19-02-2013 03:57PM

Lyaiera wrote: »

So it's perfectly fair to persecute only a few people?

How is not spending a fortune, and not changing the toilets to suit them, persecuting them?

CreepingDeath · 19-02-2013 03:59PM

Lyaiera wrote: »

So it's perfectly fair to persecute only a few people?

Persecuted?
As usual, the ridiculous dramatics arguments are wheeled out.

There's rarely any baby changing facilities in mens toilets.
That must mean I'm being persecuted for being a man.
I'm confined to the house and can't go out because of the negative attitude towards me.

I'm saying that lack of facilities doesn't mean a negative attitude, it means there's not enough demand or
lack of funds to support everyones individual needs.

Hamiltonion · 19-02-2013 03:59PM

StormWarrior wrote: »

1. who says anything about the church here? And I thought earlier someone pointed out that sexuality and transgender aren't the same thing? I think deciding to have a sex change is a choice, and some people who have sex changes end up reverting to their original sex so clealry in some cases it's the wrong choice. But that is beside the point. It has nothing to do with the toilet issue.

2. Transsexuals are an even smaller % so why should so much money be spent and so many people made unhappy by this decision for a tiny minority?

Don't mis-quote me, I choose my words carefully and don't need an editor, here's my original post for your convenience

"Religion is a choice, sexuality is not. Church and state should be separate.

I seriously doubt that the old man is going to be in the cubicle with your 13 year old.

Also, why the insinuation that men cannot be trusted around children? Pedophiles are a small % of the population, not every man harbors those instincts. Believe it or not women can be pedophiles too"

1. I was referring to the Muslim remark, religion is a choice, sexuality and GENDER IDENTY AND EXPRESSION are not. Deciding to have a sex change if one is not at home in their own body and feels their anatomy is mis-aligned with their gender is pretty much something you're compelled to do or suffer so I wouldn't say it's a choice.

2. We give pedophiles a lot of attention for a small %, I'm sure giving a small gesture of acceptance to trans-individuals wouldn't impact your life to any extent whilst making day to day life much easier for those identifying as trans.

We're all children of the nation and all have a right to be cherished equally and be enshrined with the same rights. Grow up

monkeypants · 19-02-2013 04:00PM

You can't have a toaster in the bath anymore in case it upsets the queers.

StormWarrior · 19-02-2013 04:00PM

Deleted User wrote: »

How well do you know these five people?

Pretty well. One was a penpal of mine, two live in my hometown, one of whom I see every week as "she" looks after my horse and the other two, yes both of them were married to a friend of mine before their sex changes.

StormWarrior · 19-02-2013 04:02PM

Lyaiera wrote: »

you transphobe.

Is that meant to offend me?

Seachmall · 19-02-2013 04:02PM

StormWarrior wrote: »

yes both of them were married to a friend of mine before their sex changes.

The same friend?

awec · 19-02-2013 04:02PM

Madam_X wrote: »

Thing is: mere fairness and a bit of sense and logic and critical thought is enough to have many howling that it's the work of the "PC brigade".
PC is also a phrase that's used incorrectly on a regular basis - re health and safety for instance. Or even just re not being unpleasant to certain people.

No disputing that!

B0jangles · 19-02-2013 04:03PM

Amnesty International has this to say about violence towards trans men and women:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/europe-has-still-long-way-go-combat-violence-against-transgender-people-2012-11-20

It's not good.

Also here's some very sobering data on the insane muder rate worldwide for trans people:

http://www.transrespect-transphobia.org/en_US/tvt-project/tmm-results/tmm-march-2011.htm

Lyaiera · 19-02-2013 04:03PM

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Persecuted?
As usual, the ridiculous dramatics arguments are wheeled out.

There's rarely any baby changing facilities in mens toilets.
That must mean I'm being persecuted for being a man.
I'm confined to the house and can't go out because of the negative attitude towards me.

I have never once heard of a man not going out because there was a paucity of changing facilities. I have heard loads of stories of trans people getting abuse for using the toilets. And now people are saying a simple change that would greatly enhance a group of people's fairly bad lives shouldn't be made because they might hear someone of the opposite gender pee. That's pretty much the definition of persecution.

Bruce7 · 19-02-2013 04:04PM

I find transsexuals to be very PC, in their use of language. They have murdered the English language and replaced it with a weird kind of pseudo-academic jargon that they expect everybody else to use, and they get very worked up about minute differences in terminology.

I have a close relation who is a cross-dresser and I have made several attempts to read up on the whole area to try and understand it, but was put off by the aforementioned mumbo-jumbo.

I still find it a very mysterious subject, but I don't wish them, or any other group, any ill-will, and am not anti-PC as in opposed to anybody being treated equally. Live and let live and all that.

19-02-2013 04:05PM

StormWarrior wrote: »

Pretty well. One was a penpal of mine, two live in my hometown, one of whom I see every week as "she" looks after my horse and the other two, yes both of them were married to a friend of mine before their sex changes.

On the one hand they sound like they're your friends. On the other hand, you couldn't possibly speak about your friends the way you do. Odd, to say the least.

StormWarrior · 19-02-2013 04:05PM

Hamiltonion wrote: »

Don't mis-quote me, I choose my words carefully and don't need an editor, here's my original post for your convenience

"Religion is a choice, sexuality is not. Church and state should be separate.

I seriously doubt that the old man is going to be in the cubicle with your 13 year old.

Also, why the insinuation that men cannot be trusted around children? Pedophiles are a small % of the population, not every man harbors those instincts. Believe it or not women can be pedophiles too"

1. I was referring to the Muslim remark, religion is a choice, sexuality and GENDER IDENTY AND EXPRESSION are not. Deciding to have a sex change if one is not at home in their own body and feels their anatomy is mis-aligned with their gender is pretty much something you're compelled to do or suffer so I wouldn't say it's a choice.

2. We give pedophiles a lot of attention for a small %, I'm sure giving a small gesture of acceptance to trans-individuals wouldn't impact your life to any extent whilst making day to day life much easier for those identifying as trans.

We're all children of the nation and all have a right to be cherished equally and be enshrined with the same rights. Grow up

1. EXPRESSION of anything is a choice.
2. But paedophiles aren't asking for thousands of pounds to be spent and everyone else to be inconvenienced to provide them with the facilities they want.
If we're all children of the nation then surely the fairest thing is to have a referendum - who wants this huge amount of money to be spent on this? I'm guessing the huge majority will vote no.

Hamiltonion · 19-02-2013 04:05PM

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Persecuted?
As usual, the ridiculous dramatics arguments are wheeled out.

There's rarely any baby changing facilities in mens toilets.
That must mean I'm being persecuted for being a man.
I'm confined to the house and can't go out because of the negative attitude towards me.

I'm saying that lack of facilities doesn't mean a negative attitude, it means there's not enough demand or
lack of funds to support everyones individual needs.

So you agree if we were to make all existing toilets unisex then fathers would benefit by being able to avail to pre-existing baby changing facilities?

Lyaiera · 19-02-2013 04:07PM

StormWarrior wrote: »

Is that meant to offend me?

How could it offend you? You take pride in being transphobic. I'm simply taking it upon myself to call your hatred for what it is so no-one can be in any doubt that people like yourself get called on it. I would hope it would help a trans person who was feeling put upon by such hateful comments.

awec · 19-02-2013 04:09PM

Lyaiera wrote: »

How could it offend you? You take pride in being transphobic. I'm simply taking it upon myself to call your hatred for what it is so no-one can be in any doubt that people like yourself get called on it. I would hope it would help a trans person who was feeling put upon by such hateful comments.

Sorry Lyaiera, but where exactly has he displayed hatred here?

Hamiltonion · 19-02-2013 04:09PM

StormWarrior wrote: »

1. EXPRESSION of anything is a choice.
2. But paedophiles aren't asking for thousands of pounds to be spent and everyone else to be inconvenienced to provide them with the facilities they want.
If we're all children of the nation then surely the fairest thing is to have a referendum - who wants this huge amount of money to be spent on this? I'm guessing the huge majority will vote no.

1. Not really, freedom of expression is a right, and by prohibiting that you're denying a very marginalized section of society their rights.

2. I don't see how it'd cost anything as I've already outlined. Are door signs reading 'unisex' really that expensive?

What the majority see's fit to legislate for isn't necessarily right. The majority of americans in the south agreed with apartheid for a v long time, many still do. Dosen't make it right

What is a PC Brigade and how has it stifled you?

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