Can't afford a night out? You're poor!

tommy2bad · 15-02-2013 11:14AM

Aiyana Microscopic Sergeant wrote: »

What other way is there? Someone has to pay for it?
Wealth distribution isn't just about tax and pay dole.
I don't know what that means.

I don't think that's what relative poverty means, it's been defined differently by previous posters.
"when it high", eh?
when it's high, OK you got me on punctuation
Do you mean that things are not great for everyone when the state is in a poor position?
No, I mean the state isn't doing it's job, managing the wealth to the benefit of all the population.
Relative poverty is an indication of how well the wealth is distributed.
Again, I really don't know what you are saying. Doesn't matter how many times I read it as it is obscure.

Any better?

um7y1h83ge06nx · 15-02-2013 11:16AM

This is one confusing thread.

As regards wants we can all say that we aren't having some of our wants fulfilled. I could say that I'm being excluded from some things in life as I'm too poor to have a Ferrari or too poor to be invited to The Oscars.

Just saw your post tommy2bad. How would you arrange wealth distribution?

upstairs for coffee · 15-02-2013 11:18AM

How stupid is it that there is an "anti-poverty" group?

As if there are "pro-poverty" groups, silly.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 15-02-2013 11:26AM

tommy2bad wrote: »

Wealth distribution isn't just about tax and pay dole.

I can agree with that. But it's still a handout if it's coming from that state, more-so if the state has provided a person's housing/allowance/dole/etc.....

tommy2bad wrote: »

when it's high, OK you got me on punctuation.

I wasn't trying to get you on grammar/punctuation, I just didn't understand the sentence.

tommy2bad wrote: »

No, I mean the state isn't doing it's job, managing the wealth to the benefit of all the population.

I again would agree.
But I don't think the state should be paying for someone to have a nights entertainment a week, particular in these times.

tommy2bad wrote: »

Relative poverty is an indication of how well the wealth is distributed.

Again, I don't think that's what relative poverty is. But I'm open to correction from anyone in the know on the issue.
If I have more wealth than someone else, I wouldn't have thought it's due to distribution; it's mainly because I earn more in my job that they do.

15-02-2013 11:30AM

reprazant wrote: »

I was going to say that he really needs to sort out where he goes for a pint if he chooses to go to pubs with crap food, filthy toilets and 6 euro pints.

How much are pints in Ireland now? Still more than a fiver, surely? Every time I go back, I'm never very impressed with what you get for what you pay. Either way, insinuating that someone must be boring because they don't like overpriced pubs is a bit sad.

reprazant · 15-02-2013 11:41AM

Camilo Echoing Traction wrote: »

How much are pints in Ireland now? Still more than a fiver, surely? Every time I go back, I'm never very impressed with what you get for what you pay. Either way, insinuating that someone must be boring because they don't like overpriced pubs is a bit sad.

I didn't say you were boring. I said that you needed to sort out where you go for a pint if you are going somewhere that you obviously don't like. Unless of course, you do actually like pubs with crap food, filthy toilets and 6 euro pints.

My local pub does Guiness for €4 and that is just outside the city centre. I haven't been to a pub in the city centre that charges over a fiver for a pint but then I avoid Temple Bar. I have been to pubs in London that have charged me a fiver sterling though. Does that mean that all pubs in London are over priced?

tommy2bad · 15-02-2013 11:46AM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I can agree with that. But it's still a handout if it's coming from that state, more-so if the state has provided a person's housing/allowance/dole/etc.....
Road network, schools, health care, all provided by the state, or not depending on how far right you lean and all influences on what is called relative poverty.

I wasn't trying to get you on grammar/punctuation, I just didn't understand the sentence.

I again would agree.
But I don't think the state should be paying for someone to have a nights entertainment a week, particular in these times.
Do they have to pay for it? Can't it be that not being able to afford it is an indication of something rather than the thing itself?

Again, I don't think that's what relative poverty is. But I'm open to correction from anyone in the know on the issue.
If I have more wealth than someone else, I wouldn't have thought it's due to distribution; it's mainly because I earn more in my job that they do.

Relative poverty is a measure of income inequality, not absolute poverty which is a different thing.
The state is supposed to represent all the people not just the ones who have the cash. To assume that as long as no one is in absolute poverty then all is well is missing the point.

Seaneh · 15-02-2013 11:54AM

awec wrote: »

That is not even close to what I said.

Is a roast dinner essential? No. Are roast dinners the only nutritious food out there? No.

Are there much cheaper but still nutritious alternatives? Of course.

I love fillet steak. Fillet steak meals are lovely and nutritious. If I can't afford a weekly fillet steak am I poor? Of course not, that's idiotic reasoning.

Actually, if you can't afford to "splash out" an extra 5-10 euro a week on your food bill to afford a piece of fillet beef or a whole chicken/piece of pork loin/small joint of beef, yes, you ****ing are poor.

15-02-2013 11:57AM

reprazant wrote: »

I didn't say you were boring. I said that you needed to sort out where you go for a pint if you are going somewhere that you obviously don't like. Unless of course, you do actually like pubs with crap food, filthy toilets and 6 euro pints.

My local pub does Guiness for €4 and that is just outside the city centre. I haven't been to a pub in the city centre that charges over a fiver for a pint but then I avoid Temple Bar. I have been to pubs in London that have charged me a fiver sterling though. Does that mean that all pubs in London are over priced?

I was referring to the poster who got called a 'barrel of laughs' for preferring to buy a 6-pack for the house instead of going out. That's what I find sad. As if going to the pub is the greatest thing on earth and you couldn't possibly have fun without going to one.

I don't drink Guinness and I don't really care how London pubs compare. I can just understand that some people might consider it a massive waste of money to spend the best part of a fiver on each drink. I haven't ever been in a women's toilet in a pub that wasn't dirty (by my standards) and I personally don't think the food is very good compared to nibbles/snacks you can make at home. I enjoy the pub sometimes, but I know people who never go and prefer to drink at home. Doesn't make them boring.

Seaneh · 15-02-2013 12:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't consider myself as being poor. Someone who is poor struggles, I don't. With proper money management and limiting luxury items, it is easy to survive on €20-€30 per week.

If you didn't have a medical card, and a lot of people in your position don't, you couldnt afford to go to a doctor or pay for meds if you got sick.

You can't afford to spend money in an emergency situation beyond €30ish per week.

If it's winter and your coat is stolen/lost/destroyed in an accident, you can't afford to replace it.

You're poor.

You might not think you are, but you are.

Seaneh · 15-02-2013 12:12PM

Orim wrote: »

My local butcher does a kilo of mince, 5 pork chops, 5 chicken fillets, and a couple of steaks of my choice for 20 quid. I'm sure it's not the butcher in the country doing similar.

With no effort on my part and huge portions, this lasts 4-5 weeks for me. With more reasonable portions I'd estimate this meat would last for 3 weeks for a family of four.

Are you actually insane?

You think there is enough protein there to provide 4 x 7 x 4 main meals?

Lets say a "couple" of steaks is 2 steaks.

That is, at most, 22 portions of protein there, and that's give 100g of mince as a "portion", which is slightly under what's recommend. That's less than a weeks worth of dinners for a family of 4. No matter what way you look at it, it's 3 weeks for 1 person, at the very most, and nothing more.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 15-02-2013 12:19PM

tommy2bad wrote: »

Relative poverty is a measure of income inequality

I would probably agree on that; but I wouldn't regard that as a distribution issue as you had previously stated.

tommy2bad wrote: »

The state is supposed to represent all the people not just the ones who have the cash.

I fully agree.

tommy2bad wrote: »

To assume that as long as no one is in absolute poverty then all is well is missing the point.

I don't think anyone is stating that, at least I haven't picked up on that vibe.
I think that a lot of people have questioned some of the criteria been used in the study and the merits of each criteria.

Plus, even if we accept the study, well what's the solution?
Like most of the stuff from the CSO, they doesn't suggest a 'fix'. Maybe that's not their role, but pointing out some of the obvious things we can see on a daily basis, isn't exactly the best use of the funds we have available.
Maybe they can divert some of their spending towards needy associations?

herisson · 15-02-2013 12:27PM

Since when is a night out once a week a necessity? I rarely go out because I can't afford it. It's too expensive, even though I have no kids and I pay a small rent and bills.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 15-02-2013 12:27PM

Wealth distribution on a large scale would be problematic as well and lead to further poverty over time.

So I guess what do people mean when they say "distribute the wealth". If it was looking at it from a socialist's theoretical point of view (i.e. make all people equal) I would be strongly against it.

The reason I would be against it is that there would be no incentive whatsoever for people to work. The only reason people would work would be due to a love of the work they do. I like my job but I'd much prefer watching TV and playing games all day if it didn't impact me financially.

If most people took that approach, the tax take would fall through the floor, the state would be broke, and we'd all resort to scavenging and killing each other.

Social equality for people yes, but a definite no to financial equality unless we want mayhem.

wolfpawnat · 15-02-2013 12:36PM

I think the ability to go and meet a friend, be it for A coffee, or A beer is essential, it helps keep a person sane, especially if they are now unemployed and they can hardly afford a thing due to the current climate. But still, I rather have my bills paid first.

15-02-2013 01:54PM

Orim wrote: »

My local butcher does a kilo of mince, 5 pork chops, 5 chicken fillets, and a couple of steaks of my choice for 20 quid. I'm sure it's not the butcher in the country doing similar.

With no effort on my part and huge portions, this lasts 4-5 weeks for me. With more reasonable portions I'd estimate this meat would last for 3 weeks for a family of four.

You cannot be serious.

Are you saying it would last you 4 to 5 weeks using it everyday or mixed in with different meals some days/eating out?

I very rarely cook at weekends as I usually eat out or head home and get food there and I often eat out one night during the week and I reckon that stuff wouldn't last me two weeks.

A kilo of mince is 4 dinners for me (along with pasta, rice etc). I have 2 pork chops at a time so 5 is 2.5 meals, same for chicken breasts always have 2 at a time and I will assume 2 stakes so two meals. That's 11 dinners if you combine the chicken fillet and pork chop to make a meal. I sometimes bring stuff for lunch like this too so it might only be 8 dinners and 3 lunches. Eating in every day this amount of stuff would just about do me a week and a half, or a bit longer if combined with eating out/eating at home during a weekend.

Thats me alone, how on earth would it last a family of four 3 weeks. Also I assume the mince is low quality as opposed to high quality steak mince.

5 pork chops and 5 chicken breasts is 2 meals for a family of four, you might get 3 meals out of the mince and if its two steaks then not even a meal so that's not even 6 days and not massive portions or anything.

15-02-2013 02:22PM

Izabella Calm Weirdo wrote: »

You cannot be serious.

Are you saying it would last you 4 to 5 weeks using it everyday or mixed in with different meals some days/eating out?

I very rarely cook at weekends as I usually eat out or head home and get food there and I often eat out one night during the week and I reckon that stuff wouldn't last me two weeks.

A kilo of mince is 4 dinners for me (along with pasta, rice etc). I have 2 pork chops at a time so 5 is 2.5 meals, same for chicken breasts always have 2 at a time and I will assume 2 stakes so two meals. That's 11 dinners if you combine the chicken fillet and pork chop to make a meal. I sometimes bring stuff for lunch like this too so it might only be 8 dinners and 3 lunches. Eating in every day this amount of stuff would just about do me a week and a half, or a bit longer if combined with eating out/eating at home during a weekend.

Thats me alone, how on earth would it last a family of four 3 weeks. Also I assume the mince is low quality as opposed to high quality steak mince.

5 pork chops and 5 chicken breasts is 2 meals for a family of four, you might get 3 meals out of the mince and if its two steaks then not even a meal so that's not even 6 days and not massive portions or anything.

I think eating two chicken breasts or two pork chops per meal, every day, is excessive. Most people would have only one portion of meat per meal, or have a good few completely meat-free meals during the week. Orim's suggestion might have been overly optimistic but I think you eat a lot more than the average person. The same amount of meat would last me ages. I bought 500kg of mince at the market a few days ago, and we got 4 portions of spag bol and two massive burgers out of that.

Dejvice · 15-02-2013 02:33PM

I don't live in Ireland....have not lived there for a while.
From my visits to Ireland (at least once or twice a year) right through the Celtic tiger years and onwards. These are my own observations (number 1 is a long term, onging issue, equally most of these issues could be applicable to UK)
1. Drinking too much alcohol.....both make and female. It seems that all issues are solved over a drink. Even in my local town where I grew up - pop cc 20,000 - a row of pubs down the main street and side but lacking in facilities for kids and mothers etc - including basics such as playgrounds.
2. Males eat too much.........it really amazes me at the males over the age of 30 that look like balloons.......so much so that such persons no longer have a face, it is just a round blob. Walk down the street take a look around you.
3. Supermerkets - take a walk and see what people are shoving in to their kids and family - all processed rubbish. As regards the horsemeat - Ireland loves to say how educated its people are - its a pity nobody asked why is this so cheap.......is it real? Leads me to believe that one likes to turn the head as long as all is ok for today (includes alcoholism)

I could go on and on about the failings and how the country has let itself down (equally it has it good points).

It is not the issue as regards not being able to afford a night out, the underlying issue in Ireland is how can people look at each other, go to work (if you have it), bring your kids to school, teach them to do the right thing etc, how can you do it each day, each and still continue to destroy yourselves, and permitting the powers that be to dictate what is good for you. It amazes me how you accept it all and alot of people need to take a close look at what they are doing, and what they want.

Can't afford a night out......give me a break. Is this what it has come down to?

wolfpawnat · 15-02-2013 02:43PM

Dejvice wrote: »

I don't live in Ireland....have not lived there for a while.
From my visits to Ireland (at least once or twice a year) right through the Celtic tiger years and onwards. These are my own observations (number 1 is a long term, onging issue, equally most of these issues could be applicable to UK)

This post is a gross generalisation. I don't drink, my partner does every once in a while, but about 3-4 pints about once every two months.

We eat well balanced meals most days and we buy only unprocessed meat and veg for dinner. If I brought home a processed meal from the shop my partner would question my sanity. And there are many more like us. I spend a good hundred or so a week on food, but only because we eat a lot of fruit, veg and good meat. It adds up.

Yes, there are a lot of people who do eat food that are bad for them, but in all fairness, we are second to Britain in all these things. A scary thought all the same, but still a generalisation.

Duggys Housemate · 15-02-2013 02:44PM

Pixie-Fairy wrote: »

Since when is a night out once a week a necessity? I rarely go out because I can't afford it. It's too expensive, even though I have no kids and I pay a small rent and bills.

Then you are relatively poor.

Duggys Housemate · 15-02-2013 02:47PM

Camilo Echoing Traction wrote: »

I think eating two chicken breasts or two pork chops per meal, every day, is excessive. Most people would have only one portion of meat per meal, or have a good few completely meat-free meals during the week. Orim's suggestion might have been overly optimistic but I think you eat a lot more than the average person. The same amount of meat would last me ages. I bought 500kg of mince at the market a few days ago, and we got 4 portions of spag bol and two massive burgers out of that.

Most people eat meat or fish every day I imagine. It's that or vegetarianism. Very few meat eaters have vegetarian meals as part of a normal diet, though perhaps we should.

noodler · 15-02-2013 02:48PM

Its normal we will have our own definitions of poverty.

One thing I would point out though, primarily when people argue we should cut all our ODI aid because we are in financial trouble, is to compare our version or poor with that in Uganda (for example before someone goes on about missing funds - you could choose another example).

noodler · 15-02-2013 02:49PM

Camilo Echoing Traction wrote: »

I think eating two chicken breasts or two pork chops per meal, every day, is excessive. Most people would have only one portion of meat per meal, or have a good few completely meat-free meals during the week. Orim's suggestion might have been overly optimistic but I think you eat a lot more than the average person. The same amount of meat would last me ages. I bought 500kg of mince at the market a few days ago, and we got 4 portions of spag bol and two massive burgers out of that.

I'd have to agree.

15-02-2013 02:52PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Most people eat meat or fish every day I imagine. It's that or vegetarianism. Very few meat eaters have vegetarian meals as part of a normal diet, though perhaps we should.

Yes, but TWO pork chops/chicken breasts per meal? Every day? Most people I know would have the one, which is what's recommended. I know a lot of people in Ireland seem to think a meal isn't a meal without meat. Never really got that. I love a good steak or whatever, but would often have a chickpea stew or salad or homemade veg soup and bread without even thinking I'm eating a 'vegetarian' meal.

Dejvice · 15-02-2013 02:56PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

This post is a gross generalisation. I don't drink, my partner does every once in a while, but about 3-4 pints about once every two months.

We eat well balanced meals most days and we buy only unprocessed meat and veg for dinner. If I brought home a processed meal from the shop my partner would question my sanity. And there are many more like us. I spend a good hundred or so a week on food, but only because we eat a lot of fruit, veg and good meat. It adds up.

Yes, there are a lot of people who do eat food that are bad for them, but in all fairness, we are second to Britain in all these things. A scary thought all the same, but still a generalisation.

yes it is generalisation.........but next time you are out and about take a closer look.

Duggys Housemate · 15-02-2013 02:57PM

Camilo Echoing Traction wrote: »

Yes, but TWO pork chops/chicken breasts per meal? Every day? Most people I know would have the one, which is what's recommended. I know a lot of people in Ireland seem to think a meal isn't a meal without meat. Never really got that. I love a good steak or whatever, but would often have a chickpea stew or salad or homemade veg soup and bread without even thinking I'm eating a 'vegetarian' meal.

I cook in the evening most nights and feel unfulfilled with vegetarian meals though I do it occasionally. I do agree with cutting down red meat so most of my mid week meals are fish based. That's my compromise. Before I looked into the health implications it was meat all the time.

2 pork chops? Why cook one? What restaurant would just give one? Men would probably take 2 but then, we have an extra 500 calories per diem to play with.

Duggys Housemate · 15-02-2013 03:01PM

Dejvice wrote: »

yes it is generalisation.........but next time you are out and about take a closer look.

The ballooning after 30 years is generally down to liquid calories ( and yes processed food). But I agree English people tend to cook at home more. There are plenty of Irish men who don't cook - if you exclude heating a pizza, some processed food or a fry up. They can't "prepare" , can't cut sn onion, no herbs or condiments in their kitchen. No knife skills. Visit a house of 20 year olds. There will be nothing which indicates people can cook. Cooking is heating. If at all.

leanonme · 15-02-2013 03:01PM

I must be dirt poor so.

Other than a roast chicken I have not had a roast in a long time, and seeing as a roast chicken is no more expensive than any other meat for dinner most people should be able to afford it. In aldi you can get a chicken for roasting for under 6 euro, or 5 pork chops for than price so they are both equal in value. the chicken is probably better value, as you can use the carcus to make stock for soup. I have never had to go without dinner a any stage.

I have not had a week long holiday in eight years, I am going to have a weekend away in the next few weeks, but this is something I didn't have to buy as it was a gift.

I do go to the pub once every two weeks or around that, but I dont drink often so that costs less than a tenner, so dont know how some one can not afford that. (some times costs less as being the driver most people buy you a drink for giving them a lift there and home)

Money is tight, but I believe that things could be worse, and I have seen thing worse for people around me so I count my self lucky, as in general I have my health, and now since getting a medical card I can aford to go to the doctor if I'm not feeling well.

Things could be a whole lot worse, might not have my health or a roof over my head, etc etc.

wolfpawnat · 15-02-2013 03:07PM

Camilo Echoing Traction wrote: »

Yes, but TWO pork chops/chicken breasts per meal? Every day? Most people I know would have the one, which is what's recommended. I know a lot of people in Ireland seem to think a meal isn't a meal without meat. Never really got that. I love a good steak or whatever, but would often have a chickpea stew or salad or homemade veg soup and bread without even thinking I'm eating a 'vegetarian' meal.

It would depend on the size of the chicken breast to me, sometimes to cook enough curry or stir fry or what not for two adults and a child, 3 med sizes are enough, but if they are small 4 are needed.

I don't eat pork chops so I am not sure how many people would need, but two to me seems reasonable. If I put a salad on the table for dinner I would get raised eyebrows. My partner likes white meat dinners, fish and chicken usually because he likes high protein dinners.

Dejvice wrote: »

yes it is generalisation.........but next time you are out and about take a closer look.

Yes, there is a terrible drinking culture in Ireland, but a lot of people are not like that too. There is also a lot of obese people, as there is in any place in the Western culture (I cannot comment on other places), but many more people are taking better care of themselves too. Healthy living is far more common these days with most people.

I believe a lot of the overweight issues are due to portion sizes. Back in our parents time, you got big meals, but life was more manual, we had less help from the likes of dishwashers, on farms, etc. Sadly hard working parents mean a lot of children are only eating processed foods because their parents haven't the time to cook anymore.

15-02-2013 03:07PM

Camilo Echoing Traction wrote: »

I think eating two chicken breasts or two pork chops per meal, every day, is excessive. Most people would have only one portion of meat per meal, or have a good few completely meat-free meals during the week. Orim's suggestion might have been overly optimistic but I think you eat a lot more than the average person. The same amount of meat would last me ages. I bought 500kg of mince at the market a few days ago, and we got 4 portions of spag bol and two massive burgers out of that.

I would have meat or very occasionally fish with every meal except breakfast during the week (Id have a cooked breakfast every saturday and sunday). I'd never have a sandwich even without meat in it. The only execption is if I had a omlette which, though I often cook up bacon or something in this case too.

I usually buy mince in 454gram packets and this usually gets me two portions of bolognese.

Can't afford a night out? You're poor!

Comments