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Garlic man has sentence reduced to 2 years.

  • 15-02-2013 12:31PM
    #1
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0215/367937-paul-begley-court/

    The Court of Criminal Appeal has ruled that businessman Paul Begley, who was jailed for six years for failing to pay import duty on garlic, should have his sentence reduced to two years.
    Last year Judge Martin Nolan sentenced Begley, who had pleaded guilty and repaid the money to an excessive sentence of 6 years.
    IMO today justice was served.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Rabidlamb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭Rabidlamb


    Worst superhero name ever . . . . ever


  • #3
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Considering he repaid the money and pleaded guilty, 2 years is still a long time imo considering what other sentences get handed out for actually harming others.


  • #4
    Even When I Lie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16 ✭Even When I Lie


    The vampires of Mountjoy are said to be delighted.


  • #5
    not yet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Complete lunacy that he got 6 years to begin with, juding by some of the retards that walk away scot free having done much.much worse...

    Either way he will be out soon with remission etc..


  • #6
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,902 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    With remission, he could be out by the end of this year.


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  • #7
    cofy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,972 ✭✭✭cofy


    He repaid the money and still gets two years - I wonder how many people have moved all their money out of the country and then claimed bankruptcy owing millions.


  • #8
    Anyone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    So, should white collar crime not be subject to custodial sentances then?

    Just because he didnt "harm" anybody, shouldnt mean he doesnt go to prison. He committed a fraud, went out of his way to deceive and profit from it. Fair enough, he paid the money back, but only because he got caught.

    If this was a banker or politician people here would be screaming for him to be hung.


  • #9
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    Well maybe if he didn't break the law in the first place he wouldn't be facing any kind of jail sentence - I really don't get why people are championing his cause.
    Nope. No sympathy from me. Give a more lenient sentence for being cooperative, sure, but that doesn't simply excuse the wrongdoing.


  • #10
    Missymoohaa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,737 ✭✭✭Missymoohaa


    not yet wrote: »
    Complete lunacy that he got 6 years to begin with, juding by some of the retards that walk away scot free having done much.much worse...

    Either way he will be out soon with remission etc..

    I worked it out that he should be released in July, if he was imprisoned last March. 1/3 off sentence for good behaviour, is that correct? Would have like to see him walk free today, I think he's served enough time in relation to his crime. He's no danger to society and there are far worse released without sentence back on the streets anyway.


  • #11
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    With remission, he could be out by the end of this year.


    He has already served nearly a year so he may be out in a few months.


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  • #12
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    With remission, he could be out by the end of this year.

    I would imagine he will be transferred to an open prison or the Training Unit within weeks and be on TR shortly after.


  • #13
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    Two years is still pretty heavy handed IMO- I know he broke the law, but he repaid what he owed etc and 6 months would have been plenty of time for the crime.

    Seriously, a little consistency in sentencing wouldn't go amiss. Judges need to remember that rape and murder generally has more impact on people than not paying tax on garlic.


  • #14
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    twinQuins wrote: »
    Well maybe if he didn't break the law in the first place he wouldn't be facing any kind of jail sentence - I really don't get why people are championing his cause.
    Nope. No sympathy from me. Give a more lenient sentence for being cooperative, sure, but that doesn't simply excuse the wrongdoing.
    Don't recall anyone attempting to excuse him, but the sentence was crazily excessive!


  • #15
    Hunterbiker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭Hunterbiker


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Considering he repaid the money and pleaded guilty, 2 years is still a long time imo considering what other sentences get handed out for actually harming others.

    I agree.
    Some sort of suspended sentence considering the costs involved in keeping someone locked up might have served better here. The judge still has to stick to any guidelines laid down for a particular crime though.
    Saying that that sentence was more about sending a warning to others to not to try the same thing. It's The States way of saying steal from us and we're going to nail you to the wall...


  • #16
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Justice served my àrse, Mick Wallace has managed to keep his position as a serving TD having owed Revenue nearly €2.1 million. No sanctions nor custodial punishment whatsoever!


  • #17
    Dolbert
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,154 ✭✭✭Dolbert


    Anyone wrote: »
    So, should white collar crime not be subject to custodial sentances then?

    Just because he didnt "harm" anybody, shouldnt mean he doesnt go to prison. He committed a fraud, went out of his way to deceive and profit from it. Fair enough, he paid the money back, but only because he got caught.

    If this was a banker or politician people here would be screaming for him to be hung.

    This. White collar crime not being taken seriously is a huge problem in Ireland, and the one time someone actually serves time for it people are up in arms.


  • #18
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Hang on a second, we often hear people in Ireland banging on about how white collar criminals get away scot free and how members of the wealthy classes i.e. bankers and developers should be jailed etc; and when it happens people are saying it's too harsh a sentence? Some heroin addict gets caught shoplifting a couple of times from city centre businesses and he'll probably see the inside of a cell for a short period, but yet when a businessman is caught wilfully defrauding the state (i.e. the average worker) of thousands of euros people are cribbing that he got jail?

    I say he got a fair sentence. For years it has been the case that if you're poor and commit a crime associated with that background it's "lock them up" but yet many of those lauded as "wealth creators" and all that b*llocks have been pulling scams like this (and worse) in order to shirk tax. It's gas that many of those giving out about welfare expenditure will rarely focus on tax avoidance by the rich which deprives the state of vast sums of money.

    The fact this scam concerns garlic might give it a funny undertone, but it's a serious issue. Irish society needs to take a stand against greed and corruption, it'll be a lot more difficult if people jump to defend those committing it.


  • #19
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Don't recall anyone attempting to excuse him, but the sentence was crazily excessive!

    Perhaps not excuse but the attitude is one of "ah sure he paid it back, what's the point of even doing that if he's still going to be punished". He only paid it back because he was caught; he still broke the law in the first place and should have to face some consequences for that.


  • #20
    not yet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Anyone wrote: »
    So, should white collar crime not be subject to custodial sentances then?

    Just because he didnt "harm" anybody, shouldnt mean he doesnt go to prison. He committed a fraud, went out of his way to deceive and profit from it. Fair enough, he paid the money back, but only because he got caught.

    If this was a banker or politician people here would be screaming for him to be hung.

    Surely you realise he did get a sentence, That sentence has now been reduced on appeal to 2 years....is that not enough for you ? I seem to be getting from your post that they should let him rot in prison.


  • #21
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    twinQuins wrote: »
    Perhaps not excuse but the attitude is one of "ah sure he paid it back, what's the point of even doing that if he's still going to be punished". He only paid it back because he was caught; he still broke the law in the first place and should have to face some consequences for that.

    Paying it back counts for f*ck all. There's no stating the amount he garnered before he was caught, and you can make a good guess that it wasn't the first time he did this. Similarly if he wasn't nabbed he'd still be at it. However because he's a "respectable" individual people are more sympathetic to him than some "skanger" caught shoplifting a few electrical items.


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  • #22
    Anyone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    not yet wrote: »
    Surely you realise he did get a sentence, That sentence has now been reduced on appeal to 2 years....is that not enough for you ? I seem to be getting from your post that they should let him rot in prison.


    Well then you are misreading me. I wanted to highlight that this sort of crime shouldnt go unpunished just because a person wasnt physically harmed. As I said, had that been a banker,politician or developer, people here would be screaming for blood.


  • #23
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Things like this put it into perspective for me.There are hundreds of examples.

    Of course crime should be punished. A little consistency would be sound though.


  • #24
    Anyone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Anyone


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Things like this put it into perspective for me.There are hundreds of examples.

    Of course crime should be punished. A little consistency would be sound though.


    But the two crimes are very very different. And the VAT scammer's sentance shouldnt be compared to an attempted murder's sentance. Consistency should be that crimes of a similar nature receive a similar punishment, those two are miles apart.


  • #25
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,079 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Anyone wrote: »
    But the two crimes are very very different. And the VAT scammer's sentance shouldnt be compared to an attempted murder's sentance. Consistency should be that crimes of a similar nature receive a similar punishment, those two are miles apart.


    To me it shows money is more important then life.


  • #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Rabidlamb wrote: »
    Worst superhero name ever . . . . ever

    There is a superhero called "animal vegetable mineral man"[Removed Image]


  • #27
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Justice served my àrse, Mick Wallace has managed to keep his position as a serving TD having owed Revenue nearly €2.1 million. No sanctions nor custodial punishment whatsoever!

    Can't find any record of Mick Wallace having been charged or convicted.
    This is a case where a man did defraud the State of millions, gained an unfair advantage over his competitors and was caught.
    The question is did his crime warrant the sentence he recieved.
    If you want to have one of your usual rants, then a start a thread about Mick Wallace instead of trying to derail this one!


  • #28
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Paying it back counts for f*ck all. There's no stating the amount he garnered before he was caught, and you can make a good guess that it wasn't the first time he did this. Similarly if he wasn't nabbed he'd still be at it. However because he's a "respectable" individual people are more sympathetic to him than some "skanger" caught shoplifting a few electrical items.

    If you bothered to read the case you would know the amount of money he owed included his previous times doing this, which was noted by the CCA who said themselves that he had voluntarily disclosed his previous fraud.


  • #29
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Can't find any record of Mick Wallace having been charged or convicted.
    This is a case where a man did defraud the State of millions, gained an unfair advantage over his competitors and was caught.
    The question is did his crime warrant the sentence he recieved.
    If you want to have one of your usual rants, then a start a thread about Mick Wallace instead of trying to derail this one!
    This.

    During the period of tax evasion, Begleys apparently became one of the biggest fruit and veg importers in the country. It stands to reason that jobs were lost in competitors due to the illegal advantage Begleys had over them.


  • #30
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Anyone wrote: »
    But the two crimes are very very different. And the VAT scammer's sentance shouldnt be compared to an attempted murder's sentance. Consistency should be that crimes of a similar nature receive a similar punishment, those two are miles apart.

    VAT will not try to murder me, a person can hence sentencing for attempted murder should always supercede a VAT sentence. After all, the justice system is there to protect people from crime, ya know make streets safer.


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  • #31
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    "There are worse crimes than this" is never a good argument. The justice system is there to protect people from all types of crime, not just violent crimes.


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