Can't afford a night out? You're poor!

j8wk2feszrnpao · 14-02-2013 03:02PM

In 2010, that was an income of below €207.57 a week for an adult.

Which measure of income?

Quin_Dub · 14-02-2013 03:07PM

Geuze wrote: »

Here are the averages, in case you're interested:
Note that on average each household pays 213 in direct tax, but receives 286 in social transfers. So, on average, each household is a net beneficiary of 73 pw or 3796 pa. Of course this ignore indirect taxes.

Many would argue that situation can't continue.

Note that social transfers are 28% of gross income.

Also, not enough households in Irl have direct income.

When you say "social transfers" I assume you mean things like Childrens allowance or other benefits or do Tax-free allowances also count as social transfers?

Thanks btw - this is interesting info...

enda1 · 14-02-2013 03:12PM

mango salsa wrote: »

No

The poverty line is anything 60% below the median wage

Well by that definition its unhealthy for a society NOT to have a significant number of people below the poverty line. Only an ultra socialist society could have such a narrow salary band that there is no "poverty".

Stupid definition really.

fishy fishy · 14-02-2013 03:14PM

Aiyana Microscopic Sergeant wrote: »

No that wasn't what he said.
He was stating that you were in difficulty, then don't add to it by having kids.
He did not say "that people are idiots for having kids."
Big difference between the two.

in real life, and by real, I mean not this perfect bubble where everything that you want to happen happens, and everything that you don't won't - In REAL life - kids come along - it has been happening since the world began - its how YOU got here.

The person that wrote the above quote says he/she comes from a dump of a country - by his own reckoning then, he shouldn't have even been born as his parents were so poor.

Life is life - its nice to try and put it into a little bubble but in reality life is messy, things happen and remember - if everybody waited to have kids then it would be a privilege only for the rich. But then again going by the posts on here it seems to me that only the rich are entitled to have any sort of life.

people need to get real.

fishy fishy · 14-02-2013 03:17PM

Orim wrote: »

Nope I drank a couple of pints of cider. But I'm not the on claiming that I'm poverty stricken.

And I'm certain the meat would last, the cost of veg, rice etc. might be expensive for the full family, I've only ever cooked the occasional meal for my family so I can't say for certain.

I was going to go back on the bus fare but it's too pedantic. My point is that povertry should describe fairly extreme situations and certainly shouldn't be bandied about after such a wishy-washy study.

couple pints cider - roughly 11 Euro

2 euro bus far twice a day for five days - 20 Euro.

the meat wouldn't last - try it - you'll see. Ive highlighted above where you might be going wrong in your guesstimate on the meat situation

Gummy Panda · 14-02-2013 03:18PM

awec wrote: »

I cook for myself. I buy 400g of mince from Superquinn and that does me for 4 servings of pasta easily. And that's a bowl full serving.

But it's a bit of a moot argument, everyone has their food different and some people will have their pasta meatier than others.

SUPERQUINN?!?!

No wonder you can't afford a roast dinner :pac:

Geuze · 14-02-2013 03:22PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Which measure of income?

If your disp income is below 60% of the median equivalised disp income, then you are "at-risk-of-poverty".

Here is the recent CSO report:

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/silc/2011/silc_2011.pdf

Equivalised disp income = 21,440 per person

60% benchmark = 10,889 threhold.

Under that, and you are classified as "at-risk-of-poverty".

awec · 14-02-2013 03:22PM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

SUPERQUINN?!?!

No wonder you can't afford a roast dinner :pac:

Just used it as an example. I shop wherever.

Geuze · 14-02-2013 03:24PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

When you say "social transfers" I assume you mean things like Childrens allowance or other benefits or do Tax-free allowances also count as social transfers?
...

Cash social welfare payments - YES

Other cash transfers, e.g. student grants - YES

Med card is non-cash - NO

Tax credits - they are used to determine your direct tax liability.

Geuze · 14-02-2013 03:26PM

Note:

First measure is low income, "at risk of poverty" = 16.0% of pop

Second measure is material deprivation, lack of 2+ items on 11-item list = 24.5% of pop

Third measure is combination, known as consistent poverty = low income PLUS deprived = 6.9% of pop

j8wk2feszrnpao · 14-02-2013 03:29PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

But then again going by the posts on here it seems to me that only the rich are entitled to have any sort of life.

I haven't seen one person on here state that.
It perhaps speaks more about your mindset than what people are posting.

Orim · 14-02-2013 03:30PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

couple pints cider - roughly 11 Euro

2 euro bus far twice a day for five days - 20 Euro.

the meat wouldn't last - try it - you'll see. Ive highlighted above where you might be going wrong in your guesstimate on the meat situation

The occasional meal was a full dinner for the four of us using two chicken breasts. I can't try because I don't feel like moving into my mother's house for two weeks to see how far my minor point can be stretched.

My point regarding the bus fare was that if you can afford return bus fare then you can afford to go out (I fully admit this is an extreme, that I couldn't think of better) so I don't see how comparing five days worth of bus fares to two pints is a comparison that should be made.

Geuze · 14-02-2013 03:30PM

enda1 wrote: »

Well by that definition its unhealthy for a society NOT to have a significant number of people below the poverty line. Only an ultra socialist society could have such a narrow salary band that there is no "poverty".

Stupid definition really.

This definition is in widespread use by statisticians and economists across the EU.

It is possible to have a low no. of people between 60% of the median and the median disp income.

See here:

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_OFFPUB/KS-SF-12-009/EN/KS-SF-12-009-EN.PDF

It's 9% of the pop in CZ, that seems to be the lowest.

The Dutch are at 10% of the pop.

ibarelycare · 14-02-2013 03:36PM

Wait, the article states that average DISPOSABLE income is €21,440. Doesn't disposable income mean after taxes AND after rent and necessary bills?

If that's the case, then that's an average of over €400 per week after bills!!

kupus · 14-02-2013 03:36PM

The Pub is dead

Long live YOUR life.

fishy fishy · 14-02-2013 03:36PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I haven't seen one person on here state that.
It perhaps speaks more about your mindset than what people are posting.

read the posts - you'll get the gist of what people are saying

its not good - its the typical "I'm alright Jack..f**k you" attitude. I'm quite happy with my mindset - I can see someone who hasn't seen the other side of life from a mile away. It comes with experience. Can't wait for some of these posters to have some life "experiences" - it will soften their cough.

fishy fishy · 14-02-2013 03:37PM

Orim wrote: »

The occasional meal was a full dinner for the four of us using two chicken breasts. I can't try because I don't feel like moving into my mother's house for two weeks to see how far my minor point can be stretched.

My point regarding the bus fare was that if you can afford return bus fare then you can afford to go out (I fully admit this is an extreme, that I couldn't think of better) so I don't see how comparing five days worth of bus fares to two pints is a comparison that should be made.

people see only what they want to see. :cool:

Geuze · 14-02-2013 03:38PM

ibarelycare wrote: »

Wait, the article states that average DISPOSABLE income is €21,440. Doesn't disposable income mean after taxes AND after rent and necessary bills? If that's the case, then that's an average of over €400 per week after bills!!

No, no, no.

I repeat, in economics, disp income is before you spend or save.

It's direct earned income + social transfers - direct taxes.

With disp income, you can spend it or save it.

Think of it as "being at your diposal to spend or save."

Solair · 14-02-2013 03:38PM

hardCopy wrote: »

It seems newspapers will just reprint any press release they receive these days.

That's only because they've often got one or two badly paid, over-worked journalists doing about 8 people's work due to all this austerity!

(and I'm not being sarcastic in that response)

tobsey · 14-02-2013 03:38PM

ibarelycare wrote: »

Wait, the article states that average DISPOSABLE income is €21,440. Doesn't disposable income mean after taxes AND after rent and necessary bills? If that's the case, then that's an average of over €400 per week after bills!!

No, that's discretionary income you are thinking of.

fishy fishy · 14-02-2013 03:39PM

ibarelycare wrote: »

Wait, the article states that average DISPOSABLE income is €21,440. Doesn't disposable income mean after taxes AND after rent and necessary bills? If that's the case, then that's an average of over €400 per week after bills!!

no it doesn't.

ibarelycare · 14-02-2013 03:41PM

Geuze wrote: »

No, no, no.

I repeat, in economics, disp income is before you spend or save.

It's direct earned income + social transfers - direct taxes.

With disp income, you can spend it or save it.

Think of it as "being at your diposal to spend or save."

tobsey wrote: »

No, that's discretionary income you are thinking of.

Ah I see, thanks.

--Kaiser-- · 14-02-2013 03:46PM

jamieredknapp wrote: »

a foreigner actually working in Ireland??instead of sitting around doing nothing claiming free money they have no right to receive wow... this should be the thread title..

Not sure if you're being sarcastic but I know of a lot of Irish people getting money they have no right to, but no foreign people that fit this description

fishy fishy · 14-02-2013 03:47PM

whats that got to do with anything

j8wk2feszrnpao · 14-02-2013 03:48PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

read the posts - you'll get the gist of what people are saying

I've read each posting on here, and nobody has suggested or given the impression that only the rich are entitled to have any sort of life.

People have challenged what determines poverty, or some of the determining factors that seems to be used to define poverty.

fishy fishy · 14-02-2013 03:49PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I've read each posting on here, and nobody has suggested or given the impression that only the rich are entitled to have any sort of life.

People have challenged what determines poverty, or some of the determining factors that seems to be used to define poverty.

guess people read things different ways.
I can see it from a mile off. the high-horse riders. ah, they'll fall off their horses one of these days.

mark renton · 14-02-2013 03:53PM

Aiyana Microscopic Sergeant wrote: »

People have challenged what determines poverty, or some of the determining factors that seems to be used to define poverty.

Yes, apparently the well to do can put half a kilo of mince into spag bol, the rest of us are on about 125g

Mocha Joe · 14-02-2013 03:54PM

I hate all this "Boo Hoo if you can't afford a night out. You should be thankful you have food and shelter" nonsense. We live an a 1st world country were millions and millions and millions of tax money is wasted on unnecessary things. Yet we taxpaying people should be thankful that we can scrape together enough for necessities? No. Anyone in full-time employment should be able to afford a night out at least every 2 weeks or there's something very wrong in this country. Which of course there is.

dr.bollocko · 14-02-2013 04:01PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Not sure if you're being sarcastic but I know of a lot of Irish people getting money they have no right to, but no foreign people that fit this description

He got banned for being a dumb troll.

His post got deleted because he's a dumb troll.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 14-02-2013 04:03PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

guess people read things different ways.
I can see it from a mile off. the high-horse riders. ah, they'll fall off their horses one of these days.

No idea what you're on about.

Can't afford a night out? You're poor!

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