A father shoots 'drunk' driver moments after his children were killed...

MadsL · 13-02-2013 08:22PM

starlings wrote: »

do you live in bandit country? In that situation, I'd rather have sensible shoes and a clear mind than a gun.

Here is roughly the spot she broke down.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=34.734522,-104.455488&spn=1.385863,3.120117&t=h&z=9&layer=c&cbll=34.734522,-104.455488&panoid=K8KPvA4poLLD5N_psbiaHg&cbp=12,150.18,,0,0

Now, explain to me how sensible shoes help her when a couple of rednecks with a mind to party roll up and there's no cell phone coverage.

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 08:24PM

MadsL wrote: »

Here is roughly the spot she broke down.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=34.734522,-104.455488&spn=1.385863,3.120117&t=h&z=9&layer=c&cbll=34.734522,-104.455488&panoid=K8KPvA4poLLD5N_psbiaHg&cbp=12,150.18,,0,0

Now, explain to me how sensible shoes help her when a couple of rednecks with a mind to party roll up and there's no cell phone coverage.

Looks like it hasn't rained for a couple of days in Mayo

wolfpawnat · 13-02-2013 08:25PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

If I saw that my two kids had been killed, do you think I'd notice if the driver had been sober or drunk?

Everybody reacts to a huge trauma like this in a different way. Most likely, you wouldn't be totally in control of your actions, so I reckon tempory insanity would probably be in play.

To be honest, I haven't one single ounce of compassion for the drunk driver. The only thing I might possibly feel sorry for is that the father lost his two sons and his wife could possibly lose her husband and her two sons.

We have no idea if he noticed, to be honest, I never want to find out personally. But if he did I dare say that would have added to it.

He was temporarily insane, I have very little doubt of that. Poor parents, I cannot imagine the grief they are going through.

If I was a bystander and in no way affiliated with the family I almost would do it myself. Drink drivers are a huge issue with me. Selfish bástards. And he was only just a kid himself. Idiot!

MadsL · 13-02-2013 08:25PM

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Plenty going on during the troubles - we didn't all saddle up!

Frankly, bollocks. Plenty of people got firearms licences in the North for personal protection, and there were plenty of guns buried or hidden after the end of the Civil War.

High horse you have.

BattleCorp · 13-02-2013 08:25PM

:eek:

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Plenty going on during the troubles - we didn't all saddle up!

A hell of a lot of people up in the North have legally held handguns. A lot of them have been issued for self defence, about 3000 in fact.

153,459 legally held guns up there in 2012 and probably ten times that hidden behind the couch. :eek:

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 08:28PM

MadsL wrote: »

Frankly, bollocks. Plenty of people got firearms licences in the North for personal protection, and there were plenty of guns buried or hidden after the end of the Civil War.

High horse you have.

No just a healthy disagreement with your attitude to guns.

BattleCorp wrote: »

A hell of a lot of people up in the North have legally held handguns. A lot of them have been issued for self defence, about 3000 in fact.

3000 out of a population of? Issued as in with a reason to certain people? Seems like a reasonable compromise rather than everyone having one in their car for very little reason.

3ndahalfof6 · 13-02-2013 08:28PM

It is not that long ago drink driving was acceptable in Ireland, it is only through education (and a lot of it) that we now view drink driving as a no no, how is it viewed or how is it thought in this instance,

as has been mentioned by other posters, had the children got clothing on so they could be seen at night,

we do not know yet if the driver was drunk, as we do not know yet were the children wearing clothes or some item of clothing that was visible at night,

while this is a very sad happening, everything that was or might be wrong about the final outcome must be looked at,

while I feel very sad that two young people lost their lives and the driver of the car, there is more than one lesson to be learned here,

25yrs ago in Ireland it was no biggie to drink drive, I lost my sister when she was killed by a drunk driver, so I do know what I am talking about.

MadsL · 13-02-2013 08:30PM

Procrastastudy wrote: »

No just a healthy disagreement with your attitude to guns.
3000 out of a population of? Issued as in with a reason to certain people? Seems like a reasonable compromise rather than everyone having one in their car for very little reason.

I've just given you a very real reason.

remote road, broken down, woman alone.

BattleCorp · 13-02-2013 08:31PM

Procrastastudy wrote: »

No just a healthy disagreement with your attitude to guns.

.

A couple of quick questions for you.

1. Do you shoot? In other words, do you know much about guns, and I don't mean "yeah, sure I've seen them in films"?

2. What part of MadsL's attitude to guns do you not like? Is it that you don't like guns for self defence, or is it that you don't like guns full stop?

wolfpawnat · 13-02-2013 08:32PM

MadsL wrote: »

I've just given you a very real reason.

remote road, broken down, woman alone.

Not to mention, wasn't there a thing recently that there is approximately 300 active serial killers at any one time in the US! :eek: I'd have two, just in case!!!!

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 08:34PM

MadsL wrote: »

I've just given you a very real reason.

remote road, broken down, woman alone.

Thanks but we simply don't have the same issues you have there hence, and thank God, we don't have the same attitudes to guns, even if we did this was Big guy, and kids pushing truck - tragic situation and even more tragic outcome because of a gun in the boot.

starlings · 13-02-2013 08:35PM

MadsL wrote: »

Here is roughly the spot she broke down.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=34.734522,-104.455488&spn=1.385863,3.120117&t=h&z=9&layer=c&cbll=34.734522,-104.455488&panoid=K8KPvA4poLLD5N_psbiaHg&cbp=12,150.18,,0,0

Now, explain to me how sensible shoes help her when a couple of rednecks with a mind to party roll up and there's no cell phone coverage.

You mentioned she was in high heels.

So I thought these would be a hindrance walking on that road, or running, if the hypothetical rednecks rock up.

I don't know what the violent crime rate is on a road 1000s of km away - how would I? - but I reckon the solution of carrying guns means people don't stop to help drivers in trouble. Which is depressing.

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 08:37PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

A couple of quick questions for you.

1. Do you shoot? In other words, do you know much about guns, and I don't mean "yeah, sure I've seen them in films"?

2. What part of MadsL's attitude to guns do you not like? Is it that you don't like guns for self defence, or is it that you don't like guns full stop?

Yep been shooting various things from about 12 - from the L98-A1 (cadet rifle based on the SA-80 range) to hand guns and my favourite was a WWII band of brother machine gun (sorry I really don't know the proper name!). Hand guns not so much. Plenty of shotguns but I don't think they really count in Ireland! I love shooting but don't have anywhere near enough money to do it as much as I'd like.

I think we're going somewhat off topic however.

HondaSami · 13-02-2013 08:41PM

MadsL wrote: »

You frankly have no idea how remote some of the roads can be in this part of the world.

Your experience of driving there is not the same as here. When was the last time you heard of an road ambush or carjacking in Ireland?

I get what you are saying but if it's that dangerous then women should not travel alone, I suppose men are at risk as well.

I still would not like to have to travel with a loaded gun in my car.

MadsL · 13-02-2013 08:41PM

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Thanks but we simply don't have the same issues you have there hence, and thank God, we don't have the same attitudes to guns,

But you presume to lecture the US about its gun policy...

even if we did this was Big guy, and kids pushing truck - tragic situation and even more tragic outcome because of a gun in the boot.

Gun was at home - he (allegedly) went to get it.

starlings wrote: »

You mentioned she was in high heels.

So I thought these would be a hindrance walking on that road, or running, if the hypothetical rednecks rock up.

Where the fup would she be walking, or God forbid, running??? Nothing but desert there.

I don't know what the violent crime rate is on a road 1000s of km away - how would I? - but I reckon the solution of carrying guns means people don't stop to help drivers in trouble. Which is depressing.

Actually I find US drivers much more likely to stop and help.

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 08:45PM

MadsL wrote: »

But you presume to lecture the US about its gun policy...

Yes I most certainly do.

MadsL wrote: »

Gun was at home - he (allegedly) went to get it.

Thank you for the correction I didn't pick that up from the article - it doesn't change the under lying point that if the guy didn't have access to a gun.

BattleCorp · 13-02-2013 08:49PM

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Yes I most certainly do.

Thank you for the correction I didn't pick that up from the article - it doesn't change the under lying point that if the guy didn't have access to a gun.

We'll never know but maybe if he didn't have a gun at home, he might have come back with a knife, hammer, baseball bat, can of petrol etc and the end result might have been the same.

Millicent · 13-02-2013 08:51PM

MadsL wrote: »

I've just given you a very real reason.

remote road, broken down, woman alone.

Do you think there's a serial killing rapist hiding in every bush on every highway in America or something?

starlings · 13-02-2013 08:51PM

MadsL wrote: »

Where the fup would she be walking, or God forbid, running??? Nothing but desert there.

MadsL, I understand that your wife had a frightening experience and I'm glad she's alright. I made my first comment about sensible shoes and a clear head being more useful than a gun in the case of car trouble on a remote road because your first post about your story didn't have a map or crime stats for me to read. This is a thread about a US case, on an Irish-based forum, so it'd be nice if you could fill in the gaps in my understanding less aggressively.

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 08:52PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

We'll never know but maybe if he didn't have a gun at home, he might have come back with a knife, hammer, baseball bat, can of petrol etc and the end result might have been the same.

On that point, I do not disagree. I could easily see myself beating the guy to death - which is the point I'm making to be honest.

13-02-2013 08:52PM

MadsL wrote: »

Not in Texas, it is perfectly legal, and sensible.

Here's an example why. My wife was just caught out at night on a remote rural road after her rental car got a puncture. She couldn't find the spare (was actually under the car) and the rental company told her they couldn't get out to her, nor could they get a tow truck. She had to try to limp the car to the next town. I'm bawling out the rental car company as we speak.

So a woman, alone, at night, in heels, on a remote rural road with a broken down car. See why people carry guns in their cars in this part of the world?

I think your wife should learn how to change a tyre.

Tin Foil Hat · 13-02-2013 08:56PM

MadsL wrote: »

Gun was at home - he (allegedly) went to get it.

That'll have given him some time to think. Won't do his, "I just snapped, your Honor", defence any favours.

BattleCorp · 13-02-2013 08:59PM

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

That'll have given him some time to think. Won't do his, "I just snapped, your Honor", defence any favours.

Why not? I'm not aware of a time limit to "temporary insanity". Only that it's temporary, and not permanent. Why couldn't you be temporarily insane for days or weeks and then recover all your faculties?

MadsL · 13-02-2013 09:07PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I think your wife should learn how to change a tyre.

I think you should be less patronising. She knows how to change a tyre. It was a rental car that she was unfamiliar with, the spare was under the car not in the boot - and when was the last time you went crawling under a car in a business suit, in the dirt, at night?

She had also paid for breakdown assistance.

Millicent wrote: »

Do you think there's a serial killing rapist hiding in every bush on every highway in America or something?

You think she should give up her right to self-defence on odds that there isn't?
This isn't about what is likely to happen, it is about the absolute worst case scenario that it is there for.

starlings wrote: »

MadsL, I understand that your wife had a frightening experience and I'm glad she's alright. I made my first comment about sensible shoes and a clear head being more useful than a gun in the case of car trouble on a remote road because your first post about your story didn't have a map or crime stats for me to read. This is a thread about a US case, on an Irish-based forum, so it'd be nice if you could fill in the gaps in my understanding less aggressively.

I see that you misunderstood. However I thought both my location
<--
and the fact that what I posted originally referenced both Texas and "this part of the world" made the fact I wasn't in Ireland pretty clear. Apologies if it came off aggressive.

MadsL wrote: »

Not in Texas, it is perfectly legal, and sensible.

Here's an example why. My wife was just caught out at night on a remote rural road after her rental car got a puncture. She couldn't find the spare (was actually under the car) and the rental company told her they couldn't get out to her, nor could they get a tow truck. She had to try to limp the car to the next town. I'm bawling out the rental car company as we speak.

So a woman, alone, at night, in heels, on a remote rural road with a broken down car. See why people carry guns in their cars in this part of the world?

MadsL · 13-02-2013 09:09PM

Procrastastudy wrote: »

On that point, I do not disagree. I could easily see myself beating the guy to death - which is the point I'm making to be honest.

Then isn't the fact he shot him less tragic? I'd rather a bullet in the head, than being battered to death with a iron bar.

BattleCorp · 13-02-2013 09:12PM

MadsL wrote: »

Then isn't the fact he shot him less tragic? I'd rather a bullet in the head, than being battered to death with a iron bar.

I think if I killed two kids because of my drunk driving, I'd feel like putting a bullet in my own head.

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 09:12PM

MadsL wrote: »

Then isn't the fact he shot him less tragic? I'd rather a bullet in the head, than being battered to death with a iron bar.

You're probably aware of the disconnect that is suggested. Plus if in a rage I attack, even a drunk person, they stand a chance to defend themselves, they stand less of chance with an iron bar, even less of a chance with a knife but with a gun even less chance again.

So overall I'd prefer no gun to be available, ideally no knife or iron bar either.

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 09:15PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Why not? I'm not aware of a time limit to "temporary insanity". Only that it's temporary, and not permanent. Why couldn't you be temporarily insane for days or weeks and then recover all your faculties?

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

That'll have given him some time to think. Won't do his, "I just snapped, your Honor", defence any favours.

Again in the US I'm sure its different but snapped would suggest provocation or possible automatism rather than an insanity defence. In Ireland an insanity defence only downgrades the charge to manslaughter (not guilty by reason of insanity = guilty of manslaughter) but to be fair most of this is moot. The US are more progressive in their criminal code - that said I suspect it's less forgiving than we think - if we're basing it on Law and Order etc.

MadsL · 13-02-2013 09:18PM

Procrastastudy wrote: »

overall I'd prefer no gun to be available, ideally no knife or iron bar either.

Do you get out in the real world much these days?

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 09:21PM

MadsL wrote: »

Do you get out in the real world much these days?

Witty retort. More than you know.

A father shoots 'drunk' driver moments after his children were killed...

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