A father shoots 'drunk' driver moments after his children were killed...

Turtyturd · 13-02-2013 07:36PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Hopefully the prosecutor will not have heard of the Healy-Raes!

New permits to allow for the shooting of drink drivers.

wolfpawnat · 13-02-2013 07:41PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

New permits to allow for the shooting of drink drivers.

Perhaps that would be courtesy of a particular other South Kerry TD

mike65 · 13-02-2013 07:41PM

So instead of two people dead, its three and a life/death sentence which leaves the wife......free to start a new life.

wolfpawnat · 13-02-2013 07:43PM

mike65 wrote: »

So instead of two people dead, its three and a life/death sentence which leaves the wife......free to start a new life.

I doubt she will be too able for the world after two of her children being taken from her and a murder trial where she will have to relive it over and over most days of said trial.

MadsL · 13-02-2013 07:49PM

Holsten wrote: »

Really sad as that is first degree murder, a capital crime.

Good chance he'll get the death penalty if found guilty.

I'd take a substantial bet with you that he won't. There are parts of Texas where "Judge, he needed killin', so I did" is a valid criminal defense.

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Aren't guns great? They really helped this tragic situation become a hell of a lot less sh!t.

Depends on your viewpoint; swift summary justice, or a lifetime in prison. I'd say the father did him a favour. Child killers don't do so well in Texas prisons.

mike65 · 13-02-2013 07:51PM

Twisted logic to defend gun crimes.

BattleCorp · 13-02-2013 07:52PM

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

No it isn't. Without guns this story is just another road death on a different continent.

It's quite likely that if he didn't have a gun at home, he would have used something else. Maybe a kitchen knife, baseball bat, hurley, his fists. That's if he did it in the first place, innocent until proven guilty n all that.

MadsL · 13-02-2013 07:54PM

mike65 wrote: »

Twisted logic to defend gun crimes.

Would you be making the same argument if he beat him to death with tyre iron at the side of the road?

Whooo...gun involved = kneejerk anti-gun statement

HondaSami · 13-02-2013 07:57PM

irlirishkev wrote: »

It's Texas..

It's still wrong imo

wolfpawnat · 13-02-2013 07:58PM

MadsL wrote: »

Depends on your viewpoint; swift summary justice, or a lifetime in prison. I'd say the father did him a favour. Child killers don't do so well in Texas prisons.

Not to mention, his name suggests he's Hispanic, that would make his life even worse.

And Mike65, it would have been something else if it were not the gun, my guess, a tire iron.

A_Sober_Paddy · 13-02-2013 07:59PM

Think the man should get a medal...his kids were murdered...if you decide to drink alcohol...anything you do is your own fault

Denis322 · 13-02-2013 08:03PM

If I was in that situation, I honestly couldn't see myself doing any different.

Though one thing that may have been discussed in the article and I just didn't pick up on, is the fact that it was actually a dark night. There's a reason people wear reflective clothing out on the roads at night, and I feel if the drive had been sober and hit two children out with their father on a dark country road it would be a completely different case.

Even still, I don't think he should end up facing the death sentence or a particularly harsh prison sentence for what he did.

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 08:05PM

Firstly I can't comment on the US law but it is murder - pre-meditation doesn't require a plan just some thought before hand. Going back to get the gun is enough. On gun control - the point is valid. This guy had every reason to snap but people snap for lesser reasons. Having guns around - not helpful.

This will get taken up pro bono by a dream legal team - I'd be surprised if the guy even sees the inside of a jail cell let alone a death sentence. (And rightly so franky)

MadsL · 13-02-2013 08:06PM

HondaSami wrote: »

Drunk driver is wrong without question but the other guy driving around with a gun in his car is not exactly in the right either, taking the law into your own hands is not right.

It's still wrong imo

Not in Texas, it is perfectly legal, and sensible.

Here's an example why. My wife was just caught out at night on a remote rural road after her rental car got a puncture. She couldn't find the spare (was actually under the car) and the rental company told her they couldn't get out to her, nor could they get a tow truck. She had to try to limp the car to the next town. I'm bawling out the rental car company as we speak.

So a woman, alone, at night, in heels, on a remote rural road with a broken down car. See why people carry guns in their cars in this part of the world?

starlings · 13-02-2013 08:08PM

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Think the man should get a medal...his kids were murdered...if you decide to drink alcohol...anything you do is your own fault

the kids' deaths were manslaughter; the drunk driver's was murder. It's a question of intent - the drunk driver is culpable, but unless he deliberately hit the children, he didn't murder them. The father was so crazed with shock and grief, understandably, that he wanted to kill the driver. Sadly, no one stopped him. I say this with more sympathy for the father than the driver, btw.

BattleCorp · 13-02-2013 08:08PM

Denis322 wrote: »

Though one thing that may have been discussed in the article and I just didn't pick up on, is the fact that it was actually a dark night. There's a reason people wear reflective clothing out on the roads at night, and I feel if the drive had been sober and hit two children out with their father on a dark country road it would be a completely different case.

Even still, I don't think he should end up facing the death sentence or a particularly harsh prison sentence for what he did.

Yep, maybe it didn't help the way the kids were dressed but whatever way you look at it, drink driving is drink driving. There's no excuse.

As MadsL said, a lot of people over in Texas would agree that " "Judge, he needed killin', so I did" would be a reasonable excuse for killing the drunk driver.

Drink driving isn't tolerated at all over in the States.

HondaSami · 13-02-2013 08:09PM

MadsL wrote: »

Not in Texas, it is perfectly legal, and sensible.

Here's an example why. My wife was just caught out at night on a remote rural road after her rental car got a puncture. She couldn't find the spare (was actually under the car) and the rental company told her they couldn't get out to her, nor could they get a tow truck. She had to try to limp the car to the next town. I'm bawling out the rental car company as we speak.

So a woman, alone, at night, in heels, on a remote rural road with a broken down car. See why people carry guns in their cars in this part of the world?

I'm a woman, drive at night all the time in a rural area and no I don't need a gun in my car.
I know it's legal in Texas but thankfully it will never be legal in Ireland for the very reason this thread was started.

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 08:10PM

HondaSami wrote: »

I'm a woman, drive at night all the time in a rural area and no I don't need a gun in my car.
I know it's legal in Texas but thankfully it will never be legal in Ireland for the very reason this thread was started.

You would in the states to be fair. Too many other nutters running around with them.

But you point is well taken and in my opinion completely correct.

opinion guy · 13-02-2013 08:11PM

To turn this on its head.

Supposing the guy wasn't drunk ? He rear-ended a car on a dark rural road at night with two kids pushing it - presumably blocking the lights if they were working. It may not have been his fault. You gotta wonder about the safety of having your kids push your truck on a dark road at night don't ya think ?

lockon... · 13-02-2013 08:13PM

starlings wrote: »

the kids' deaths were manslaughter; the drunk driver's was murder. It's a question of intent - the drunk driver is culpable, but unless he deliberately hit the children, he didn't murder them. The father was so crazed with shock and grief, understandably, that he wanted to kill the driver. Sadly, no one stopped him. I say this with more sympathy for the father than the driver, btw.

All death's in this case were caused by manslaughter.

BattleCorp · 13-02-2013 08:13PM

HondaSami wrote: »

I'm a woman, drive at night all the time in a rural area and no I don't need a gun in my car.
I know it's legal in Texas but thankfully it will never be legal in Ireland for the very reason this thread was started.

Funny enough, guns are legal in Ireland, even handguns.

Ireland is a lot safer than the US. Do you live in Ireland or the US? Fair enough, you probably don't need a gun here in Ireland for self defence, in fact, they aren't allowed here for self defence, but if you were in America, you might think differently.

starlings · 13-02-2013 08:14PM

MadsL wrote: »

So a woman, alone, at night, in heels, on a remote rural road with a broken down car. See why people carry guns in their cars in this part of the world?

do you live in bandit country?

In that situation, I'd rather have sensible shoes and a clear mind than a gun.

A_Sober_Paddy · 13-02-2013 08:14PM

starlings wrote: »

the kids' deaths were manslaughter; the drunk driver's was murder. It's a question of intent - the drunk driver is culpable, but unless he deliberately hit the children, he didn't murder them. The father was so crazed with shock and grief, understandably, that he wanted to kill the driver. Sadly, no one stopped him. I say this with more sympathy for the father than the driver, btw.

Well I'm of the opinion that if you decide to drink and get drunk and do something wrong your totally in the wrong...I'm of the opinion that what the driver did was as guilty as walking into a bank with a loaded gun who kills someone in the commission of robbing the bank...I will accept my views are very right wing on this and also not within the current structure of the law...but that's why i did the law is wrong on a moral level

wolfpawnat · 13-02-2013 08:15PM

Denis322 wrote: »

Though one thing that may have been discussed in the article and I just didn't pick up on, is the fact that it was actually a dark night. There's a reason people wear reflective clothing out on the roads at night, and I feel if the drive had been sober and hit two children out with their father on a dark country road it would be a completely different case.

They were probably not prepared for the breakdown. But it makes you think. Definitely putting a reflector jacket in my MIL's boot just in case. He was probably at the side of the car giving the mother instructions as she tried to steer it and left the boys behind for just a moment. It could have been all three of them.

I think the young man being drunk was the crux. If he were sober I imagine the father would have been grief-strickenly attempting to punch the other man, but as soon as you would realise he was drunk, all sense would go out the window.

MadsL · 13-02-2013 08:16PM

HondaSami wrote: »

I'm a woman, drive at night all the time in a rural area and no I don't need a gun in my car.
I know it's legal in Texas but thankfully it will never be legal in Ireland for the very reason this thread was started.

You frankly have no idea how remote some of the roads can be in this part of the world.

Your experience of driving there is not the same as here. When was the last time you heard of an road ambush or carjacking in Ireland?

Denis322 · 13-02-2013 08:17PM

opinion guy wrote: »

To turn this on its head.

Supposing the guy wasn't drunk ? He rear-ended a car on a dark rural road at night with two kids pushing it - presumably blocking the lights if they were working. It may not have been his fault. You gotta wonder about the safety of having your kids push your truck on a dark road at night don't ya think ?

I agree with ya on that one. Though when driving, pretty sure you're only supposed to drive a speed which allows you to stop inside your field of vision, even at night. Which would still mean he was going too fast to stop once they came into view of his headlights.

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 08:18PM

lockon... wrote: »

All death's in this case were caused by manslaughter.

You're applying Irish law and applying it wrong.

US has a massive, codified, penal code - states also have local laws. At common law the shooting was murder.

The initial collision could have been any number of things under US/Texas law including (possibly) vehicular homicide.

starlings · 13-02-2013 08:19PM

lockon... wrote: »

All death's in this case were caused by manslaughter.

I can't agree. I understand why people, especially parents, would say they might react like this man did, but I think they would actually intend to kill. It's such a shame there wasn't anyone there to stop him.

BattleCorp · 13-02-2013 08:19PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

They were probably not prepared for the breakdown. But it makes you think. Definitely putting a reflector jacket in my MIL's boot just in case. He was probably at the side of the car giving the mother instructions as she tried to steer it and left the boys behind for just a moment. It could have been all three of them.

I think the young man being drunk was the crux. If he were sober I imagine the father would have been grief-strickenly attempting to punch the other man, but as soon as you would realise he was drunk, all sense would go out the window.

If I saw that my two kids had been killed, do you think I'd notice if the driver had been sober or drunk?

Everybody reacts to a huge trauma like this in a different way. Most likely, you wouldn't be totally in control of your actions, so I reckon tempory insanity would probably be in play.

To be honest, I haven't one single ounce of compassion for the drunk driver. The only thing I might possibly feel sorry for is that the father lost his two sons and his wife could possibly lose her husband and her two sons.

Procrastastudy · 13-02-2013 08:20PM

MadsL wrote: »

You frankly have no idea how remote some of the roads can be in this part of the world.

Your experience of driving there is not the same as here. When was the last time you heard of an road ambush or carjacking in Ireland?

Plenty going on during the troubles - we didn't all saddle up!

A father shoots 'drunk' driver moments after his children were killed...

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