Child-free flights: discrimination or something worse?

UrbanSea · 11-02-2013 01:34PM

God people like the OP seriously piss me off.

If you're outraged at this you must live your life in a state of constant shock and anger.

Political correctness at its most stupid

Gannicus · 11-02-2013 04:01PM

I think it's a great idea. I fly regularly and regardless of how long the flight is, a screaming crying child always makes it feel like an eternity.

I flew from Dublin to Boston last year and for the best part of six hours I had to listen to one baby screaming crying. I know it not the baby's fault but why should I who has paid a few hundred euro be forced to listen to that

A lot of Airlines give free child spaces for children under 2 years old anyway.

I think if they could maybe charge a little more for child-free flights and discount people for accepting seats on flights where there will be children on board.

I'd be happy to pay a few quid to be guaranteed a flight without a child crying the whole time.

(people with kids pay normal price as they caused all this :P)

ronjo · 11-02-2013 04:11PM

Excellent, another one of these threads

Mr Creosote fighting the good fight and Hoodwinked claiming his/her child is the best behaved child in the world

anncoates · 11-02-2013 04:14PM

The amount of threads in AH bitching about kids is endemic of late. Is it a by-product of the baby boom?

A good idea would be to bring in child-free flights across all airlines but if you avail of one, you have to sign an affidavit saying that you will pay a very large tariff if you then ever try and bring a child on a flight yourself in your lifetime for any reason.

Would definitely weed out the people that spend their lives complaining about children in public spaces before themselves becoming responsible for the worst brats in public 10-15 years later.

Grayson · 11-02-2013 04:20PM

anncoates wrote: »

The amount of threads in AH bitching about kids is endemic of late. Is it a by-product of the baby boom?

A good idea would be to bring in child-free flights across all airlines but if you avail of one, you have to sign an affidavit saying that you will pay a very large tariff if you then ever try and bring a child on a flight yourself in your lifetime for any reason.

Would definitely weed out the people that spend their lives complaining about children in public spaces before themselves becoming responsible for the worst brats in public 10-15 years later.

That sounds fair and reasonable. Do you have a newsletter? Or a blog?!?

Drakares · 11-02-2013 04:21PM

MrCreosote wrote: »

Utter disgrace, if you ask me.

Good thing nobody asked you

kunst nugget · 11-02-2013 04:23PM

anncoates wrote: »

The amount of threads in AH bitching about kids is endemic of late. Is it a by-product of the baby boom?

Tbf, most of them seemed to be started by people that are outraged by the notion that their children's rights are being curtailed just like the blacks of the deep south at the beginning of the 20th century. I think that tends to get a lot of people's backs up.

Grayson · 11-02-2013 04:27PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Tbf, most of them seemed to be started by people that are outraged by the notion that their children's rights are being curtailed just like the blacks of the deep at the beginning of the 20th century. I think that tends to get a lot of people's backs up.

I think more people should understand what "Rights" are and how bad losing them actually is. It'd also be handy if they knew how rights are decided.

rather than screaming about rights because they're inconvenienced or feel a bit put out.

anncoates · 11-02-2013 04:29PM

Grayson wrote: »

That sounds fair and reasonable. Do you have a newsletter? Or a blog?!?

There's a germ of truth in it though.

I don't know if people in your group have kids or if you do but observe the ones that bitch the most about kids in public spaces ("they never come out anymore" "their kids breathe too loudly in the cafe"): odds are they're often the ones that seem to let their kids run amok when they eventually have them.

The idea that public space must somehow be always convenient for you and to not be cognizant of the needs of others is generally a trait that tends to endure whether or not you have kids.

It is a nightmare being on a long-haul when kids are crying but maybe they're going to see their grandparents for the last time or something. It's tough to listen to but I always bring headphones on flights anyway.

MurdyWurdy · 11-02-2013 04:30PM

How does having child-free rows on a plane put out the parents though ? Surely it's in their benefit too to know that if people are giving them dirty looks and tut tutting because their kids are crying that those people had the option to pay a bit more to sit away from them but chose not to avail of it.

The parents aren't paying any more to take their kids on the plane - the people who don't want to sit next to them are.

What's the problem?

southsiderosie · 11-02-2013 05:15PM

MrCreosote wrote: »

It's not like the man is bumped off the flight, or made to pay extra.
By reducing the number of seats available to parents, they are making it less likely they'll get on a flight- that will increase the (already high) cost for them

This is the thin edge of the wedge. Child-free flights are next, Ryanair have already been looking to bring them in.

MrCreosote wrote: »

Here's the problem, in simple arithmetic 1,2,3:

Before:

200 seats, anyone could buy any of the seats

After:

200 seats- single travellers can buy any seat. Parents and children can only access 120. They have reduced choice as a direct result of the discrimatory policies. Fewer seats=more competition=higher prices===discrimination

MrCreosote wrote: »

As I said the single traveller's can choose any seat they want. The competition for the family friendly seats will drive up prices there (fewer seats=fewer cheap seats)

Last year we flew through Dubai to Nairobi for safari- the price for all of us was bad enough then. I'm not even sure if we could have afforded it if they'd been higher. That's the end result of discrimination.

You have the whole pricing thing backwards.

First, people pay extra to opt into the kid-free zone.

Second, if you look at the demographics of who travels on what airline, the vast majority (with notable exceptions like Southwest in the US) aren't families on holiday, they are business travelers, who are the bread and butter of most airlines. This is even true on Ryanair. As someone who travels a lot on business (and who can sleep on planes quite easily), I think a kid-free area is a great idea. And since families seem to disproportionately travel on bargain airlines (and understandably so), having a kid-free area is a way to keep business travelers on budget flights.

Third, as the previous example highlights, there are numerous options for travelers. On airlines like United and Continental, customer service and seating arrangement favor business travelers/frequent flyers. Southwest is family friendly. Spirit is for retirees who don't mind getting bumped three times as long as they get a cheap fare. Etc, etc. So one airline instating this rule is hardly going to be the death of air travel for families with small children.

Finally, I'm not unsympathetic to the travails of people traveling with small children, especially if I see that parents are making an effort to control their kids. That said, some people I think are so used to their children behaving badly that they learn to block them out while the rest of us are driven demented. This proposal just seems like a happy medium: child-free passengers get a peaceful flight, the airlines get more money, and parents get fewer dirty looks. Seems like a win-win to me.

poisonated · 11-02-2013 05:16PM

I think it's a very good idea.

Peppa Pig · 11-02-2013 05:52PM

Aside from child free zones I would gladly pay extra for stag/hen free zones.
Give me a crying child for a couple of hours over a gang of boozed up gob****es.

pl4ichjgy17zwd · 11-02-2013 06:00PM

Jesus, I would count myself amongst the 'PC brigade' for a lot of things but calling this discrimination is ridiculous :rolleyes:

MrCreosote · 11-02-2013 07:25PM

anncoates wrote: »

The idea that public space must somehow be always convenient for you and to not be cognizant of the needs of others is generally a trait that tends to endure whether or not you have kids.

This is the problem. People are so bloody self-centered that they think the whole thing is about themselves and lose sight of the fact that they're being flown across the world. It's not going to be comfortable. You should be happy just to get from A to B

As for noise- the biggest noise on the plane is caused by those big engine things outside...drowns everything else out

southsiderosie wrote: »

You have the whole pricing thing backwards.

First, people pay extra to opt into the kid-free zone.
.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. There's only a finite number of seats on the plane.

I don't care if AirDiscrimination sells family seats from NY to Sydney for 1 euro, if there are fewer seats than before, there will be more competition for those seats. You'll then have the choice of paying business class or waiting for another flight. This will push the average REAL price parents have to pay up.
Single travellers don't have this same problem- that's why it's discrimination

garbanzo9 · 11-02-2013 07:32PM

Personally I don't see anything wrong with it, people should have the option. It's not like children are being banned from planes altogether

MrCreosote · 11-02-2013 07:42PM

Grayson wrote: »

No they don't. They just rejig the seating and end up putting people with kids in family areas.
And that's what a number have done. Rather than call one part a quiet area, they just call the other part a family area.

They don't just rejig the seating. Rejigging the seating would mean single travellers are banned from the family area. They are not.

garbanzo9 wrote: »

Personally I don't see anything wrong with it, people should have the option. It's not like children are being banned from planes altogether

The only ones getting an option as you put it, are the single travellers. Choice is being taken away from families.

Look I know it's not on the same level as workplace sexism, or racism or whatever. I'm not trying to say it is, but it's still discrimination. And it's the thin edge of the wedge for our child-hating society to begin pushing in more severe controls

McNulty737 · 11-02-2013 07:57PM

I would be in favour of tranquillising all children under the age of 5 and loading them into the cargo hold to be honest.

Gee_G · 11-02-2013 07:58PM

I have a child and intend to go away on holidays this summer. It does not bother me in the slightest if other people have been given the option to sit elsewhere with no kids.
At least that way if someone tuts at your child crying or passes comment when you are trying your best to entertain them, ya can tell them to piss off and pay the extra few bob for the other seats

minidazzler · 11-02-2013 08:05PM

MrCreosote wrote: »

Here's the problem, in simple arithmetic 1,2,3:

Before:

200 seats, anyone could buy any of the seats

After:

200 seats- single travellers can buy any seat. Parents and children can only access 120. They have reduced choice as a direct result of the discrimatory policies. Fewer seats=more competition=higher prices===discrimination

You just wanna feel like a victim don't you?

Be quiet and take the squalls to the back of the plane. Give them whiskey if they won't stop crying.

MrCreosote · 11-02-2013 08:09PM

McNulty737 wrote: »

I would be in favour of tranquillising all children under the age of 5 and loading them into the cargo hold to be honest.

You do know this is illegal right?

Gee_G wrote: »

I have a child and intend to go away on holidays this summer. It does not bother me in the slightest if other people have been given the option to sit elsewhere with no kids.
At least that way if someone tuts at your child crying or passes comment when you are trying your best to entertain them, ya can tell them to piss off and pay the extra few bob for the other seats

We're hoping to do a tour of the artistic heritage of Europe with Iseult this summer. It would bother me if someone said- "Sorry, the flight is full...well the family restricted part is anyway...so YOU can't fly, even though there's still room in the child-free part of the plane"

If people comment to me, I just tell them piss off. No need for other seats

minidazzler · 11-02-2013 08:11PM

MrCreosote wrote: »

You do know this is illegal right?

We're hoping to do a tour of the artistic heritage of Europe with Iseult this summer. It would bother me if someone said- "Sorry, the flight is full...well the family restricted part is anyway...so YOU can't fly, even though there's still room in the child-free part of the plane"

If people comment to me, I just tell them piss off. No need for other seats

Do you think that because you aren't bothered by your little squalls screaming that no one else has a right to be? You chose to have them, and to bring them on a flight, if I say shut that baby up you best give it some toys before I give it some whiskey.

starlings · 11-02-2013 08:21PM

MrCreosote wrote: »

We're hoping to do a tour of the artistic heritage of Europe with Iseult this summer. It would bother me if someone said- "Sorry, the flight is full...well the family restricted part is anyway...so YOU can't fly, even though there's still room in the child-free part of the plane"

:pac:
I'm sure you could tour the artistic heritage of Europe by ferry and car/train, or failing that, charter a plane on AirSatire.

Ms. Pingui · 11-02-2013 08:28PM

Pair of headphones... be grand.

bette · 11-02-2013 08:29PM

starlings wrote: »

:pac:
I'm sure you could tour the artistic heritage of Europe by ferry and car/train, or failing that, charter a plane on AirSatire.

Have you considered that that artistic tourist could disrupt the finest tours to artistic heritage sites in Europe and feel that the brat is getting a fine education whilst expending all it's forces into shrieking?

Those precious horrors are an evil imposition on others.

bhamsteve · 11-02-2013 08:29PM

Have those people moaning about children on planes never heard of ear plugs? I swear some people spend there lives looking for things to get annoyed about.

Mince Pie · 11-02-2013 08:32PM

bhamsteve wrote: »

Have those people moaning about children on planes never heard of ear plugs? I swear some people spend there lives looking for things to get annoyed about.

And what would one recommend for the incessant kicking on the back of the seat?
I personally think its a marvelous idea and a win win situation. Nothing worse than enduring Jemima screaming her lungs out cos she dropped her granola bar.

MrCreosote · 11-02-2013 08:33PM

bhamsteve wrote: »

Have those people moaning about children on planes never heard of ear plugs? I swear some people spend there lives looking for things to get annoyed about.

Well it's obviously far easier to spend your time complaining about something rather than doing something about it.

Advice for the child-haters- if you can't take the fact that you might be slightly out of your comfort zone for a few precious hours of your oh-so-important day, then maybe you shouldn't travel in the first place

Ms. Pingui · 11-02-2013 08:34PM

So the first 7 rows will be child free? Will there be some partition or something separating the child free area from the family area?
Otherwise what's stopping a kid sitting in the 8th row and screaming/ kicking the seat in front? (i.e the 7th row)
Noise travels as well so I can't see the point of it.

starlings · 11-02-2013 08:36PM

bette wrote: »

Have you considered that that artistic tourist could disrupt the finest tours to artistic heritage sites in Europe and feel that the brat is getting a fine education whilst expending all it's forces into shrieking?

Those precious horrors are an evil imposition on others.

I know Bette, just imagine what will happen when little I. is denied a glass of absinthe at the midnight performance art in the darling little smoky Keller in Friedrichshain.

Child-free flights: discrimination or something worse?

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