why do people use 1m reasons to not protest instead of 1 decision to do it??

G Power · 09-02-2013 11:35PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

They did by refusing to participate, duh!

that sent ripples to the ecb and imf alright, i believe mario draghi took note of it ya know

cml387 · 09-02-2013 11:39PM

G Power wrote: »

that sent ripples to the ecb and imf alright, i believe mario draghi took note of it ya know

Exactly as many ripples as the march that you were on.

leggo · 09-02-2013 11:44PM

G Power wrote: »

one analogy I've come up with from attending too many failed protests and hearing peoples excuses for not attending after is, it's a bit like the alcoholic who will use a multitude of reasons to keep drinking instead of making one decision to just do the right thing

What this man said...

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Show me your evidence that a protest has ever changed government policy in Ireland, answer never!
Hundreds of thousands marched in the late 70's over paye rates, wasted their time, over 100,000 marched in opposition to the Iraq war, fuq all affect on government policy.
Marches in this country are just an opportunity for extremists like Eirigi,SF,SIPTU and their likes to claim public support.

Generic, anti-government protests (as opposed to labour strikes and the like) rarely achieve anything of note here. Protests, as we know them in Ireland, are essentially public showings of displeasure. However this country also has a history of re-electing people despite dissatisfaction with performance. We did so when Bertie was being hauled up by tribunal and radio phone shows were filled with cries like, "By jayziz Joe, all of dem guverment are corrupt!" Fianna Fáil topped the most recent poll were voters were asked who would they elect if there was an election in the morning (though, to be fair, there was a greater percentage undecided). And so on.

If protests were followed up with by radical political parties springing up and gaining support, or even people voting accordingly, the government would be forced to **** themselves. But they don't. So they don't. Look at the Occupy movement here, they had no idea what they were actually protesting for and what changes they wanted made. All they seemed to want was more people sitting in the cold being unhappy about..."(discontented mutters) 1%...government...bloody disgrace so 'tis!"

People choose to show their dissatisfaction in other ways: by emigrating, by protest voting referenda, by Twitter, in opinion polls etc. That's not an excuse not to protest, that's a way that's proven as valid and effective a display of dissatisfaction with government policy, i.e. not very much.

Protestors like yourself tend to get on a high horse that people don't do the same things they do...but with things like protests, the proof is in the pudding. Complaining about people not complaining is redundant. If enough people were dissatisfied to get off their arse and protest, they would. If the dissatisfaction was sufficient enough that said protest got to Arab Spring levels of passion and ended in the government being overthrown forcibly...then it would just happen.

By all means continue to protest if you feel that it's the most effective way of airing your grievances. But I'm sick of people coming on here, or wherever else, and moaning that other people don't feel strongly enough about the same stuff they they do.

cml387 · 10-02-2013 12:00AM

Actually I can think of one anti government protest that did work.

That was the rod licence dispute.

And wasn't there a TD elected in Donegal over the TV deflector issue?

We do protest, but it's over things we know we can change.

Marching against "austerity" is a bit like marching against sin.

Adyx · 10-02-2013 12:26AM

G Power wrote: »

so in my op and after i describe the level of denial in this country to be of alcoholic proportions you admit the only time you ever attended a protest with your mates, you actually thought ye were all going drinking!!

my point personified :pac:

Meh, that was nearly 15 years ago. I very rarely drink at all now. To be honest I didn't read your op, it was clear what your agenda was from the title.

Look, I'm no fan of bailing out banks, tax increases or austerity but none of these think-of-the-children types have a notion of what a viable alternative is and before you say anything I've been made redundant twice in the last 3 years and I'll be lucky if I get €190 a week in the job I'm starting next week so it's not like I'm doing great for myself watching other suffer. (Although I'm doing too bad either I admit).

Even without all the bailouts and shít, some cuts and taxes were always going to be necessary considering the state of the global economy and deny it all you want but the average person is at least partly responsible for all this. The unions even more so. I don't want or expect anyone to do any campaigning or standing up on my behalf, and I certainly don't need the likes of you pointing fingers and criticising me for not agreeing with your (futile) methods.

DylanII · 10-02-2013 12:27AM

G Power wrote: »

one analogy I've come up with from attending too many failed protests and hearing peoples excuses for not attending after is, it's a bit like the alcoholic who will use a multitude of reasons to keep drinking instead of making one decision to just do the right thing

I am not going to protest unless I want something done.

I haven't seen a protest in a while that I thought they're right!

G Power · 10-02-2013 12:38AM

leggo wrote: »

What this man said...

thanks

If protests were followed up with by radical political parties springing up and gaining support, or even people voting accordingly, the government would be forced to **** themselves. But they don't. So they don't. Look at the Occupy movement here, they had no idea what they were actually protesting for and what changes they wanted made. All they seemed to want was more people sitting in the cold being unhappy about..."(discontented mutters) 1%...government...bloody disgrace so 'tis!

occupy had so much potential but unfortunately the majority used anything as an excuse for why they wouldn't actually get involved and try make it work, if they had received a huge swell of support things would have been different but like so many other protests the general public let the side down. it was pointed out beautifully here a few months back when someone was wishing some group or movement would start up so he could join them in regular protest and he was asked immediately where he was a few months before that when the occupiers were in cities for up to 200+ days??

miss tickle · 10-02-2013 12:44AM

G Power wrote: »

one analogy I've come up with from attending too many failed protests and hearing peoples excuses for not attending after is, it's a bit like the alcoholic who will use a multitude of reasons to keep drinking instead of making one decision to just do the right thing

Perhaps the reason you attend so many failed protests is, that you read the propoganda beforehand and accept it without making an informed decission with regard to the content. For eg. the website for today's protest referred to Irish people having paid 9,000 per head as opposed to 192 per head av. for other European countries. This is poorly researched. To date we deffinately have not paid 3600,000,000. As this struck me as total poppyc*ck, I decided personally that those organising the protest were dissillusioned, and preferred not to take the day off work. I will reserve a day for a more targeted protest which outlines the actual cause of our present dillemma , organised by those who are better informed and are willing to offer more progressive solution, instead of regurgitating the same lame miss-informed retoric.

orestes · 10-02-2013 12:51AM

One of the main reasons I generally don't join protests like todays one is because I don't want to be associated with a bunch of delusionally idealistic people who believe that highly complex social/legal/economic/moral issues that they have no understanding of can be fixed by standing on the street for an afternoon and yelling that everything would be fine if everyone did what they say.

ArmaniJeanss · 10-02-2013 01:10AM

G Power wrote: »

occupy had so much potential but unfortunately the majority used anything as an excuse for why they wouldn't actually get involved and try make it work, if they had received a huge swell of support things would have been different but like so many other protests the general public let the side down.

Do you not get that the vast majority of people don't actually agree with you?

We are not 'divided and conquered serfs', we did not 'use anything as an excuse not to get involved in Occupy', we did not 'let the side down', we do not feel an overwhelming need to 'send a message'.

Your central premise is that everyone is angry, therefore why won't they protest? When you realise that the first half of that sentence isn't true then you might have a lightbulb moment as to why such small numbers protest.

10-02-2013 01:15AM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Your central premise is that everyone is angry, therefore why won't they protest?

This is the thing exactly! Look at the reaction to the hosemeat fiasco. On paper it's horrible stuff but what's the response? Jokes. No-one actually gives a ****. People are actually shrugging and saying stuff along the lines of "yeah, I suppose that's the price for convenience.
It's not just an Irish thing either, as much people like to paint things like that. The vast majority of the time anything happens abroad we're not told the actual reason. Everything in Spain is still split along civil war lines. We like to denigrate ourselves using those terms but it's a different league over there. "Oh French people won't pay a tax unless they know what it's being spent on. Because they're so responsible." Bull****, they can't balance a budget, they just the most contrary ****ers going. For other countries take your pick from Religion and other political allegiances.

Ireland gets on my nerves an awful lot, the main thing probably being the whinging about how bad we are.

G Power · 10-02-2013 01:34AM

cml387 wrote: »

Exactly as many ripples as the march that you were on.

it wasn't for my want of trying and if you and the rest had come out and took over the march for all the right reasons we'd be talking a different talk across the country tonight, we'd be celebrating people power and feeling pround and strong instead of where we are because nobody cared enough to see past any particular group they don't like being involved today.

do ye realise how stupid you all sound with yer fcuking excuses??

ixoy · 10-02-2013 01:39AM

G Power wrote: »

it wasn't for my want of trying and if you and the rest had come out and took over the march for all the right reasons we'd be talking a different talk across the country tonight, we'd be celebrating people power and feeling pround and strong

Maybe you would tonight, but what about tomorrow? What about a week from now? How would things have changed - the realities of the country's balance sheet for example.

orestes · 10-02-2013 01:40AM

G Power wrote: »

do ye realise how stupid you all sound with yer fcuking excuses??

What excuses? You asked why people didn't protest, they answered, you just don't like the answers so you consider them excuses.

Or do you just assume that because we dont't think like you do that we're all stupid?

miss tickle · 10-02-2013 02:00AM

G Power wrote: »

it wasn't for my want of trying and if you and the rest had come out and took over the march for all the right reasons we'd be talking a different talk across the country tonight, we'd be celebrating people power and feeling pround and strong instead of where we are because nobody cared enough to see past any particular group they don't like being involved today.

do ye realise how stupid you all sound with yer fcuking excuses??

Firstly, if this had been a pro-recovery march, as opposed to an anti-austerity march with better informed organisation behind it, if it had a leadership with intelligent proposals with regard to how this country can recover from it's current position, it would perhaps have attracted a better turn-out. So you will just have to accept that the turn-out today simply reflects the support for the ideology behind this march, nothing more, nothing less. This may dissapoint you, but the majority have spoken volumes with their silence.

newmug · 10-02-2013 02:00AM

Meself and the missus went to two anti-abortion protests. We felt strongly enough about it to go. Austerity is one thing, and it wont last forever, but no matter how poor or fcuked you think you are, at least you were not murdered with a liquidiser by your own mother as a child!

ezra_pound · 10-02-2013 02:10AM

miss tickle wrote: »

Firstly, if this had been a pro-recovery march, as opposed to an anti-austerity march with better informed organisation behind it, if it had a leadership with intelligent proposals with regard to how this country can recover from it's current position, it would perhaps have attracted a better turn-out. So you will just have to accept that the turn-out today simply reflects the support for the ideology behind this march, nothing more, nothing less. This may dissapoint you, but the majority have spoken volumes with their silence.

Absolutely. Spot on.

I think its shocking that thousands marched for 'down with this Sort of thing' and against the inevitable and necessary.

I'm a public sector employee so these guys are apparently representing my interests but the unions are really losing touch with reality.

There is no Way in hell I would have gone to todays March.

10-02-2013 02:14AM

miss tickle wrote: »

Firstly, if this had been a pro-recovery march, as opposed to an anti-austerity march with better informed organisation behind it, if it had a leadership with intelligent proposals with regard to how this country can recover from it's current position, it would perhaps have attracted a better turn-out. So you will just have to accept that the turn-out today simply reflects the support for the ideology behind this march, nothing more, nothing less. This may dissapoint you, but the majority have spoken volumes with their silence.

Again, here's the thing, what does "recovery" mean? Looking purely at government spending, including the (not that big yet) bank spending the state is still actually inflating the economy so just how bad will normal be?
There was a thread recently where someone didn't get the meaning of the word normal, they thought that if 90% of people did something it didn't make it normal. Not just Ireland, but all of Europe, along with America, are living on a foundation built by military intervention. Anything we complain about sounds to SE Asians to be fantastic. Are they less hard-working than us? Are they ****e. As much as I dislike "people" I like that most seem to realise that even the doomsday scenarios on TV are better than 95% of people on Earth can ever wish for and we were lucky enough to be born where we are.

Nonoperational · 10-02-2013 02:18AM

Jesus I'm really sorry for not attending your protest, regardless of my own opinions.
Lets all go on a march organised by the unions who are contributors to the problem in their own way...

Spare me.

I love the way the forums are being populated by people horrified by the lack of "action" by the lazy useless apathetic Irish people. Maybe, just maybe, people rather keep their head down and work their way out of this without buying into the fantasy that we can tell the bond holders to toddle on and we all live happily ever after ...

colly10 · 10-02-2013 02:23AM

I'm happy to protest but I would have very different views to the majority out there and marching with them would allow them to claim my support.

I would probably have as much of a problem with half the people marching as I do with the government so I don't see the point.

miss tickle · 10-02-2013 03:13AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

Absolutely. Spot on.

I think its shocking that thousands marched for 'down with this Sort of thing' and against the inevitable and necessary.

I'm a public sector employee so these guys are apparently representing my interests but the unions are really losing touch with reality.

There is no Way in hell I would have gone to todays March.

Lets face it we're all in this soup together, if we're going to protest on any recognisable scale we need to organise a proposal written by professionals, and backed by an international organisation, with regard to the poor running of this state.

G Power · 10-02-2013 03:22AM

miss tickle wrote: »

Firstly, if this had been a pro-recovery march, as opposed to an anti-austerity march with better informed organisation behind it, if it had a leadership with intelligent proposals with regard to how this country can recover from it's current position, it would perhaps have attracted a better turn-out. So you will just have to accept that the turn-out today simply reflects the support for the ideology behind this march, nothing more, nothing less. This may dissapoint you, but the majority have spoken volumes with their silence.

oh so we have someone else who wants to change something instead of just going along and joining in. if we had to change things to suit every individual before they'd go along sure we wouldn't see us even begin to start protesting to change anything in our lifetimes.

you lot have said nothing with your silence only that once again ye are a bunch who would rather nitpick at menial things and use them as an excuse to feed your own denial or whatever ya have going on in your heads. when i hear of a protest the last thing on my mind is the little meaningless details (in the grand scheme of things) and just go to make my voice heard and try get involved.

G Power · 10-02-2013 03:28AM

miss tickle wrote: »

Lets face it we're all in this soup together, if we're going to protest on any recognisable scale we need to organise a proposal written by professionals, and backed by an international organisation, with regard to the poor running of this state.

and sit back and watch as everybody weighs in with why they're not happy with where a comma or full stop is placed and that's it, screw you guys i'm going home attitudes.

if you actually got involved semi regular you'd understand for yourself what i am trying to describe here.

being on the outside looking in is one thing but being on the inside looking out is so frustrating when we know things aren't perfect with our protests but it's no reason for the whole lot of ye to slate us and refuse to help out.

while you lot refuse to join in people are dying in this country that are waiting on us to rise up, the sick and the elderly must be in some position watching us all fight amongst ourselves instead of just getting on with the mammoth task we have ahead and i don't mean just against austerity.

G Power · 10-02-2013 03:31AM

newmug wrote: »

Meself and the missus went to two anti-abortion protests. We felt strongly enough about it to go. Austerity is one thing, and it wont last forever, but no matter how poor or fcuked you think you are, at least you were not murdered with a liquidiser by your own mother as a child!

are you for real?? abortion is not liquidising children you utter disgrace of a person!!

WTF?!?

Doc Ruby · 10-02-2013 03:39AM

G Power wrote: »

oh so we have someone else who wants to change something instead of just going along and joining in.

What. Would you listen to yourself. Not everyone is sat there listening to the lord of the rings soundtrack shitfaced on dutch gold my friend. You won't get any support without a) a good plan and b) showing people that you're willing to help them in real practical terms. Or how did you think politicians go their power in the first place, they help people in their community. Be different by helping the country too instead of feathering your own nest. Stop making a public show of yourself across the internet and go find out what people really need.

Duck Soup · 10-02-2013 03:41AM

A million people marched in London against the UK going to war in Iraq. Blair ignored them.

A relative handful of people in Athens rioted and the Greek government was able to say to the EU "The very fabric of our society is threatened". They got the money to keep the country going and many billions in debt were wiped.

Irish politicians will not disturb the powers in Europe unless they've seen things on the streets that required them to effect a change of trousers.

Riddle101 · 10-02-2013 03:50AM

Duck Soup wrote: »

A million people marched in London against the UK going to war in Iraq. Blair ignored them.

A relative handful of people in Athens rioted and the Greek government was able to say to the EU "The very fabric of our society is threatened". They got the money to keep the country going and many billions in debt were wiped.

Irish politicians will not disturb the powers in Europe unless they've seen things on the streets that required them to effect a change of trousers.

So in other words we should have riots instead.

Duck Soup · 10-02-2013 03:53AM

Riddle101 wrote: »

So in other words we should have riots instead.

If you want to see major change, such as not paying back foreign speculators, yes.

miss tickle · 10-02-2013 03:54AM

G Power wrote: »

and sit back and watch as everybody weighs in with why they're not happy with where a comma or full stop is placed and that's it, screw you guys i'm going home attitudes.

if you actually got involved semi regular you'd understand for yourself what i am trying to describe here.

being on the outside looking in is one thing but being on the inside looking out is so frustrating when we know things aren't perfect with our protests but it's no reason for the whole lot of ye to slate us and refuse to help out.

while you lot refuse to join in people are dying in this country that are waiting on us to rise up, the sick and the elderly must be in some position watching us all fight amongst ourselves instead of just getting on with the mammoth task we have ahead and i don't mean just against austerity.

Look, on a personal level, I could not identify with the factually incorrect information presented in relation to this protest, there are plans for others under-way at the moment, it takes a bit more time because those undertaking the task are doing it pro-bono, and are also liasing with international bodies to add merit to their proposals, and also in doing so hope to attract wider media coverage. All will be invited to join, but it is a personal choice.

10-02-2013 04:05AM

Duck Soup wrote: »

A million people marched in London against the UK going to war in Iraq. Blair ignored them.

Because no-one powerful cared.

A relative handful of people in Athens rioted and the Greek government was able to say to the EU "The very fabric of our society is threatened". They got the money to keep the country going and many billions in debt were wiped..

The Greek write-down is overplayed. It's a bit like you (Ireland) going to hospital with an asthma attach. You sat for 10 hours in A and E, you're annoyed but they're giving you a nebuliser etc. Then a guy (Greece) comes in with the bottom half of his shin hanging off and you just know that they're going to go to him before they see to you. You have 2 choices, hang on in the in discomfort or shoot yourself in the head. I know which I would choose and the last half dozen years have shown I'm not alone.

why do people use 1m reasons to not protest instead of 1 decision to do it??

Comments