the germans and smoking

Shenshen · 08-02-2013 10:28AM

Roger_007 wrote: »

If you were going to have a hangover anyway, it means you were drinking too much. Maybe you stank as much from the drink as from the smoke. Do you not know that the alcohol is just as bad for you as the smoke.

Yes, my hair and clothes definitely stank of cold drink, not stale smoke ...

:rolleyes:

Banjo String · 08-02-2013 10:29AM

I've been smoking for almost 15 years.

I know they say every one does you damage, but my body is most definitely not addicted to them. I have maybe one with a coffee in the morning, one with lunch time coffee.
At the weekends I'll have one with a beer (maybe three or four in an evening)

Some days, I've none whatsoever, and i don't crave them, or feel like I 'need' one, everyone tells me "that's h how it starts, Sam' but surely I'm proof that some people get addicted easier than others.

Why do I smoke at all?

I enjoy one! And if I'm not addicted, what's the problem?

/exhales tobacco smoke through nostrils, like puff the magic dragon.

Roger_007 · 08-02-2013 10:31AM

Franticfrank wrote: »

This is the real problem. Even in regions where smoking is banned in pubs and restaurants, you can apply to turn your premises into a 'smoking club' to get around it. And a huge amount of places do this in Germany. It's really at the point where if you go for a night out, you never know which pubs are full of smokers and which ones aren't.

Really, for a country lauded for its efficiency and organisation, its embarrassing that they still haven't managed to ban smoking nationwide. Even if decisions are taken at federal level, they need to hang their heads in shame. There's still smoking ads on billboards, at bus stops and in cinemas. Even ridiculous ads like the current Marlboro campaign with tagline "Don't Be a Maybe" which makes no sense at all. And the price is madly cheap. Some Germans came over to Ireland and nearly got a heart attack when they realised they had to pay twice as much for their fags. That stopped them smoking fairly quickly...at least until they got back to the Fatherland.

I am a frequent visitor to Berlin, my favourite city to visit. Everyone here seems to be missing the point. In Germany smoking in NOT illegal. Some bars allow smoking and there are non-smoking bars or in some cases bars that have smoking rooms separate from the rest of the bar. I found it easy to find non-smoking bars. I know there is supposed to be a smoking ban but the Germans with their impeccable logic decided that if smoking is not illegal then there should be places where you can smoke. I don't frequent the smoking bars but I don't worry about those who do, that is up to them. Why some people seem to go out of their way to be offended is beyond me.

Wibbs · 08-02-2013 11:00AM

listermint wrote: »

Well forget the Demon weed part. This stuff is rammed with Nicotine and they are bloody crazy addictive. Which is why they are fast becoming so popular. We dont know what sort of effects these things have yet so i wouldnt just wash that aside with humour.

Your kinda proving my previous point really and god forbid humour should come into things.

Anyway for a start they're used by people that are already addicted, but are a far safer delivery system for that addiction for all concerned. As for effects? We already know the effects of nicotine on the body. We've been running a centuries long in the field experiment with the stuff. Nicotine on it's own, in the doses imbibed is not particularly dangerous. Indeed may prove to be a useful theraputic drug in some areas. EG It's a better drug with less side effects than Ritilin in ADD and such like. It improves short term memory and may have a protective effect against certain types of Parkinsons. Current smokers while exposed to all sorts of diseases are also protected against some others compared to non smokers. EG ulcerative colitis is very rare among current smokers. That's the nicotine. The problem is smoking as a means to imbibe nicotine is really really bad because of all the thousands of nasties that come from burning. These vape things remove that entirely. The other constituents in the vape "smoke" are well know medically for their effects or lack thereof.

Of course they'll be targeted. No tax on them yet for a start. If every smoker went to these devices the tax take which is in the billions would be lost. The "medical" nicotine replacement business interests would be screwed too so more revenue lost there. Bye bye nicorette et al. Actually, question, why arent the same people getting antsy about vaping, not antsy at all with those products? They're nicotine delivery products too.

keithclancy · 08-02-2013 11:03AM

HandsomeJonny wrote: »

What bar were you in? And in what part of Germany. It might vary by Bundesland but I live in Bavaria and there is virtually a blanket smoking ban indoors unless you join a smoking club. In fact when skiing season starts or whenever you are likely to travel to Austria you remember what its like to be in a smoking bar. Austria is definitely way more relaxed but in Bavaria as far as I can see you cannot smoke anywhere in pubs or work or bars.

I thought the ban implementation was a complete success in Germany.

Nah, Dusseldorf still has lots of smoking bars, no Smoking Club either.

listermint · 08-02-2013 11:04AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Your kinda proving my previous point really and god forbid humour should come into things.

Anyway for a start they're used by people that are already addicted, but are a far safer delivery system for that addiction for all concerned. As for effects? We already know the effects of nicotine on the body. We've been running a centuries long in the field experiment with the stuff. Nicotine on it's own, in the doses imbibed is not particularly dangerous. Indeed may prove to be a useful theraputic drug in some areas. EG It's a better drug with less side effects than Ritilin in ADD and such like. It improves short term memory and may have a protective effect against certain types of Parkinsons. Current smokers while exposed to all sorts of diseases are also protected against some others compared to non smokers. EG ulcerative colitis is very rare among current smokers. That's the nicotine. The problem is smoking as a means to imbibe nicotine is really really bad because of all the thousands of nasties that come from burning. These vape things remove that entirely. The other constituents in the vape "smoke" are well know medically for their effects or lack thereof.

Of course they'll be targeted. No tax on them yet for a start. If every smoker went to these devices the tax take which is in the billions would be lost. The "medical" nicotine replacement business interests would be screwed too so more revenue lost there. Bye bye nicorette et al. Actually, question, why arent the same people getting antsy about vaping, not antsy at all with those products? They're nicotine delivery products too.

Agreed.

All though having watched my partners Aunty Vape continually for the best part of 3 hours on a cherry flavour bottle, i had to wonder if self prescription of these is a good thing.

She seems to buy the stuff online by the litre.

Wibbs · 08-02-2013 11:05AM

SamHall wrote: »

Some days, I've none whatsoever, and i don't crave them, or feel like I 'need' one, everyone tells me "that's h how it starts, Sam' but surely I'm proof that some people get addicted easier than others.

Defo. I've a mate like you S. Has the odd ciggie or cigar. Could go weeks without one, then could smoke three in a row. People very much differ. On the other side some people are very addicted to nicotine. It's almost self medication. Indeed one of the few places you can still smoke indoors in Ireland are psychiatric institutions as so many of the patients smoke. Most people sit in the middle, they're addicted, but habit is as much of it. I reckon that's why stuff like Alan Carr and hypnosis can turn a 60 a dayer into a non smoker after one session.

Jaxxy · 08-02-2013 11:05AM

listermint wrote: »

Well forget the Demon weed part. This stuff is rammed with Nicotine and they are bloody crazy addictive. Which is why they are fast becoming so popular. We dont know what sort of effects these things have yet so i wouldnt just wash that aside with humour.

Yes they have nicotine and yes nicotine is highly addictive. But I fail to see why anyone wouldn't agree that it is a completely acceptable substitute for cigarettes and the toxic chemicals and carcinogens within them. Nicotine alone (in moderation) as a drug is about as harmful as caffeine.

Wibbs · 08-02-2013 11:06AM

listermint wrote: »

All though having watched my partners Aunty Vape continually for the best part of 3 hours on a cherry flavour bottle, i had to wonder if self prescription of these is a good thing.

Sure LM, but it's significantly less risk than if she had been lighting one fag after another. Plus must be a low enough nicotine dose liquid. I'd have a high tolerance to nicotine(I could inhale a cuban cigar and it wouldn't touch the sides), but huffing a vaper for hours would have my head spinning if it was even a medium level one.

Lucena · 08-02-2013 11:07AM

mango salsa wrote: »

Are you a wikipedia mod?

Nope. Just trying to find a polite way to say "not this old cliché again".

Dravokivich · 08-02-2013 11:09AM

Jaxxy wrote: »

Yes they have nicotine and yes nicotine is highly addictive. But I fail to see why anyone wouldn't agree that it is a completely acceptable substitute for cigarettes and the toxic chemicals and carcinogens within them. Nicotine alone (in moderation) as a drug is about as harmful as caffeine.

Caffeine is farely bad in high doses IIRC, and I think that's something a lot of people are concerned about regarding nicotine consumption through vaping.

I Heart Internet · 08-02-2013 11:09AM

Slightly off topic but I have been in the company of dutch people who thought nothing of smoking while chatting to my heavily pregnant wife.

Just a different mindset about these things.

Bad Santa · 08-02-2013 11:09AM

lufties wrote: »

Whats a citation?

It's "Sigh" in a collective sense or the discipline of conducting 'Sighs'.

munchkin_utd · 08-02-2013 11:13AM

Roger_007 wrote: »

I am a frequent visitor to Berlin, my favourite city to visit. Everyone here seems to be missing the point. In Germany smoking in NOT illegal. Some bars allow smoking and there are non-smoking bars or in some cases bars that have smoking rooms separate from the rest of the bar. I found it easy to find non-smoking bars. I know there is supposed to be a smoking ban but the Germans with their impeccable logic decided that if smoking is not illegal then there should be places where you can smoke. I don't frequent the smoking bars but I don't worry about those who do, that is up to them. Why some people seem to go out of their way to be offended is beyond me.

as i pointed out earlier, in public it depends on the region and in Bavaria it is completely banned everywhere with no exceptions whatsoever, not even the beer tents at the Oktoberfest.

Germany is VERY regionalised with massive powers to the regions and smoking regulations was considered to be a cultural issue so coming under the governance of the regions.

(and as i mentioned, its this assumption of massive power locally that means the germans dont fear a federal europe as it'll make no difference to them if the national government looses power - but i digress! )

Bad Santa · 08-02-2013 11:14AM

Parsandeman wrote: »

You can't beat the cigarettes. I'm having one now in bed.

You must have a very small penis.

crockholm · 08-02-2013 11:14AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Defo. I've a mate like you S. Has the odd ciggie or cigar. Could go weeks without one, then could smoke three in a row. People very much differ. On the other side some people are very addicted to nicotine. It's almost self medication. Indeed one of the few places you can still smoke indoors in Ireland are psychiatric institutions as so many of the patients smoke. Most people sit in the middle, they're addicted, but habit is as much of it. I reckon that's why stuff like Alan Carr and hypnosis can turn a 60 a dayer into a non smoker after one session.

A psychiatric nurse once told me that a cig is one of the best "tools" in the job,can be used in a carrot and stick manner effectively.

listermint · 08-02-2013 11:15AM

Jaxxy wrote: »

Yes they have nicotine and yes nicotine is highly addictive. But I fail to see why anyone wouldn't agree that it is a completely acceptable substitute for cigarettes and the toxic chemicals and carcinogens within them. Nicotine alone (in moderation) as a drug is about as harmful as caffeine.

Where did i not agree

Roger_007 · 08-02-2013 11:30AM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

as i pointed out earlier, in public it depends on the region and in Bavaria it is completely banned everywhere with no exceptions whatsoever, not even the beer tents at the Oktoberfest.

Germany is VERY regionalised with massive powers to the regions and smoking regulations was considered to be a cultural issue so coming under the governance of the regions.

(and as i mentioned, its this assumption of massive power locally that means the germans dont fear a federal europe as it'll make no difference to them if the national government looses power - but i digress! )

The point I was making is that wherever you go in Germany there are are non-smoking bars. If you object to smoking bars then don't go to one. What I cannot understand is why people go in to smoking bars and then complain about the smoke. There is a choice. I go to Berlin mainly to attend music events and smoking is absolutely and properly banned in these kind of venues because of course there is no choice. I think the whole thing works well and you don't have to run the gauntlet of the smokers at the pub door in Berlin like you do in Dublin.

keithclancy · 08-02-2013 11:30AM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Slightly off topic but I have been in the company of dutch people who thought nothing of smoking while chatting to my heavily pregnant wife.

Just a different mindset about these things.

They were just a$$holes, you get them in every country.

Jaxxy · 08-02-2013 11:32AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Caffeine is farely bad in high doses IIRC, and I think that's something a lot of people are concerned about regarding nicotine consumption through vaping.

Most things are bad in high doses, that's why I said in moderation :P

I'm not sure that people would be prone to vaping more than they'd smoke either.

Dravokivich · 08-02-2013 11:53AM

Jaxxy wrote: »

Most things are bad in high doses, that's why I said in moderation :P

I'm not sure that people would be prone to vaping more than they'd smoke either.

Yeah, but your perception of moderation has to adjust, as vaping in the same manner/regularity as you would smoke, does that consume the same amount, or more nicotine? Is what I meant to put across earlier.

With ciggarettes, each cigarette is a finite quantity, with vaping, it's either capsules or vials. Is one able to determine when they've had the same amount as a typical cigarette?

I've known of at least one person to consume more nicotine through vaping than they would of through smoking, but that's only after realising how many vials they went through. So it's quite a valid topic to consider. You can easily say to moderate, but how one perceives moderation can be the bit that's questionable.

Jaxxy · 08-02-2013 12:04PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah, but your perception of moderation has to adjust, as vaping in the same manner/regularity as you would smoke, does that consume the same amount, or more nicotine? Is what I meant to put across earlier.

With ciggarettes, each cigarette is a finite quantity, with vaping, it's either capsules or vials. Is one able to determine when they've had the same amount as a typical cigarette?

I've known of at least one person to consume more nicotine through vaping than they would of through smoking, but that's only after realising how many vials they went through. So it's quite a valid topic to consider. You can easily say to moderate, but how one perceives moderation can be the bit that's questionable.

Even if it was the case that when you start vaping you possibly consume more nicotine I still fail to see how it's worse than cigarettes.

Let's take me for an example. I smoke 23-24 cigarettes a day and a cartridge for my electronic cigarette holds the nicotine equivalent of 40 cigarettes. That lasts me a week. I find my body knows when it's had enough and I just put the e-cig away. Fair enough everyone is different but I personally haven't met anyone who overdosed on nicotine while vaping.

It's a good decision to swap smoking cigarettes with vaping IMO, but every individual has to take personal responsibility for what they put in their bodies.

Eve_Dublin · 08-02-2013 12:35PM

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

I lived in Germany for a year. Only time I ever smoked, everybody does it so its easy to get roped in. I managed to knock it on the head though early on when I realised I was developing a habit.

Same with Spain. I was a smoker when I moved here and ended up becoming a massive smoker for a few months because it wasn´t banned yet and they were so cheap. I smoked so much people commented on it on nights out. I had to knock it on the head and it´s been 3 years now (although I have the occasional puff from people´s cigarettes when I´m gee-eyed). It´s still very acceptable here, particularly among women. I have female students who´d look after themselves in every other way but this and they´ve no desire to quit. Even when I was a smoker among smoking friends, we all said we wanted to stop. You don´t find the same kind of anxiety over being a smoker as you do in Ireland. It´s really weird.

lufties · 08-02-2013 12:40PM

HandsomeJonny wrote: »

What bar were you in? And in what part of Germany. It might vary by Bundesland but I live in Bavaria and there is virtually a blanket smoking ban indoors unless you join a smoking club. In fact when skiing season starts or whenever you are likely to travel to Austria you remember what its like to be in a smoking bar. Austria is definitely way more relaxed but in Bavaria as far as I can see you cannot smoke anywhere in pubs or work or bars.

I thought the ban implementation was a complete success in Germany.

A bar called lotta in cologne i think it was..must get onto the rauchen polizei about it

Bavarians must be less tolerant.

lufties · 08-02-2013 12:44PM

keithclancy wrote: »

They were just a$$holes, you get them in every country.

Yeah I worked with german guys and had a bad cold and chesty cough, I took the liberty of telling them where the designated smoking area was ,but no it didnt matter a sh1te to them and continued to smoke freely everywhere in the workplace..

Babooshka · 08-02-2013 12:48PM

SamHall wrote: »

I've been smoking for almost 15 years.

Why do I smoke at all?

I enjoy one! And if I'm not addicted, what's the problem?

/exhales tobacco smoke through nostrils, like puff the magic dragon.

You are deluding yourself. The problem is, whether you call it apples or oranges, you're still doing it, and it is cancer causing. Do you think the mutant cancer cells only appear in people's bodies who label themselves an addict, and steer clear of those who just label themselves "occasional smokers for pleasure"? Everyone thinks they enjoy one, or else they woudln't do it.

It's a perception thing...if you educate yourself as to why your brain persuedes you into thinking you are in control, and you're not addicted, you'll realise what's happening. It's like saying you enjoy sticking pins in your eyes or burning yourself, but only once a month or hardly ever, and you love the feeling it gives you.

Anyone · 08-02-2013 12:49PM

Ireland is very American like in its view of smoking and smokers. Also, most people who complain about smoking drive a car that produces more poisonous fumes it the cars lifetime than a smoker can produce in his/hers.

lufties · 08-02-2013 12:54PM

MCMLXXV wrote: »

OP, would ya go an sh1te.

Thanks for that contribution

Eve_Dublin · 08-02-2013 12:57PM

Anyone wrote: »

Ireland is very American like in its view of smoking and smokers. Also, most people who complain about smoking drive a car that produces more poisonous fumes it the cars lifetime than a smoker can produce in his/hers.

I don´t think we´re that bad but smoking around non-smokers isn´t fair no matter what way you look at it. I don´t see why anyone would defend it. People can smoke all they like as far as I´m concerned but I´d rather not sit in a room with you. It´s horrible.

I Heart Internet · 08-02-2013 01:02PM

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I don´t think we´re that bad but smoking around non-smokers isn´t fair no matter what way you look at it. I don´t see why anyone would defend it. People can smoke all they like as far as I´m concerned but I´d rather not sit in a room with you. It´s horrible.

Exactly. I wouldn't like to sit in a room where someone was farting uncontrolably, stinking of BO or otherwise causing the place to smell up and be unpleasent. Likewise, sitting in a confined space with smokers is not pleasent.

the germans and smoking

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