The Gay Megathread (see mod note on post #2212)

totus tuus · 05-02-2013 03:54PM

28064212 wrote: »

Do you really want to use Leviticus as an argument? Most Christians have spent their time getting Leviticus as far away from this discussion due to the logical absurdity of having to assign the same importance to the rest of the rules in it.

That is because Christians are not bound by everything in the old law!

Old Testament law, as such, is not binding on Christians. It never has been. In fact, it was only ever binding on those to whom it was delivered—the Jews (Israelites). That said, some of that law contains elements of a law that is binding on all people of every place and time.

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/why-we-are-not-bound-by-everything-in-the-old-law

05-02-2013 03:59PM

totus tuus wrote: »

That is because Christians are not bound by everything in the old law!

I know that. I didn't raise the Leviticus issue, I pointed out why it's a really, really bad argument

Zombrex · 05-02-2013 04:36PM

digger58 wrote: »

OK, Hands up who thinks homosexual behavior is "Natural", IT IS NOT NATURAL QED, It may be natural to some but it is NOT what nature intended, if so we would not have been successful as a species.

By Darwin's beard, the ignorance is astounding.

It is well established that homosexuality occurs in nature, and provides evolutionary advantage. For example, men who are gay tend to have very fertile sisters. Any children they do not produce themselves by virtue of being gay is off set, and then some, by the extra children their sisters have.

Homosexuality is very much what "nature intended". It just happens that nature is a lot cleverer than most people.

digger58 wrote: »

I do object to marches and other public displays advertising their lifestyle, Why do it, the "straight" community don't march to prove their sexuality.

The "straight community" aren't told not to publicly display their lifestyle. :rolleyes:

digger58 · 05-02-2013 04:56PM

"If it is natural than Christianity must be a false Religion."
Are not all religions false?
Some readers here seem to think I am condemning homosexuality, I am not, I am merely stating my beliefs in a natural world, and , I would argue, the views of a large proportion of humanity, IT'S NOT FOR ME (not that I've tried it or intend to) but as I have said, what consenting adults do in private is not my business once it doesn't effect me. I do accept that the gay community were and still are discriminated against, I would suggest a lot less in liberal Ireland than in other countries, Try a gay rights march in a country under Sharia Law! but do we need Gay Pride marches, Gay Olympics and the like?,

"Are eagles natural? Shellfish? If they are, why did God decree them "detestable"? What about a woman's menstrual cycle? Pretty natural, I would have said. Yet when she's having her period, she's "unclean", and no-one should touch her, and anything she touches is also "unclean"
Again religion playing with the minds of the susceptible, telling people what to eat and when, how have the human race been conned or so long? Maybe the ancient tribes were correct, worshiping the sun and stars , at lease they are tangible unlike this God spoken of who allows all sorts of horrendous things to happen, then again perhaps there is no God to prevent all this, makes sense in my book

Bannasidhe · 05-02-2013 05:09PM

digger58 wrote: »

"If it is natural than Christianity must be a false Religion."
Are not all religions false?
Some readers here seem to think I am condemning homosexuality, I am not, I am merely stating my beliefs in a natural world, and , I would argue, the views of a large proportion of humanity, IT'S NOT FOR ME (not that I've tried it or intend to) but as I have said, what consenting adults do in private is not my business once it doesn't effect me. I do accept that the gay community were and still are discriminated against, I would suggest a lot less in liberal Ireland than in other countries, Try a gay rights march in a country under Sharia Law! but do we need Gay Pride marches, Gay Olympics and the like?,

"Are eagles natural? Shellfish? If they are, why did God decree them "detestable"? What about a woman's menstrual cycle? Pretty natural, I would have said. Yet when she's having her period, she's "unclean", and no-one should touch her, and anything she touches is also "unclean"
Again religion playing with the minds of the susceptible, telling people what to eat and when, how have the human race been conned or so long? Maybe the ancient tribes were correct, worshiping the sun and stars , at lease they are tangible unlike this God spoken of who allows all sorts of horrendous things to happen, then again perhaps there is no God to prevent all this, makes sense in my book

You are demonstrating your ignorance of the natural world more like.

digger58 · 05-02-2013 05:13PM

Please explain that comment! or do you believe in the religion element

Bannasidhe · 05-02-2013 05:20PM

digger58 wrote: »

Please explain that comment! or do you believe in the religion element

Homosexuality exists in nature - you have already been supplied the evidence of this. Therefore it is natural.

I tend to stop reading when it is obvious the author has no idea what they are talking about - in the case of your post this was obvious from the beginning so no, I didn't read you stream of consciousness rant so have no opinion on it either way.

Zombrex · 05-02-2013 05:24PM

digger58 wrote: »

Some readers here seem to think I am condemning homosexuality, I am not, I am merely stating my beliefs in a natural world, and , I would argue, the views of a large proportion of humanity, IT'S NOT FOR ME (not that I've tried it or intend to) but as I have said, what consenting adults do in private is not my business once it doesn't effect me.

Your belief in what you call a "natural world" is wrong. Homosexuality occurs naturally in nature along biological principles and serves an evolutionary role.

You might as well say having blonde hair is "unnatural" for all the sense your view makes.

digger58 · 05-02-2013 06:05PM

Please tell the victims of horrendous sexual abuse, by the religious orders that we all know about, that this behavior was natural,or will you try and justify this as well and say that was "Natural" and it was what "nature intended". Yes Blonde hair is unnatural as well in a lot of cases!!!!!!!! i.e. the person sporting it is not naturally blonde. Then again with an address at 10 Yemen Road, Yemen, I would have expected you to be in favor, what is that saying "Boys for recreation girls for procreation" so reminiscent of time spent in the region,

05-02-2013 06:08PM

digger58 wrote: »

Please tell the victims of horrendous sexual abuse, by the religious orders that we all know about, that this behavior was natural,

What does homosexuality have to do with abuse?

You claimed that homosexual acts between two consenting adults were not natural. What do you have to back up that claim?

Delirium · 05-02-2013 06:10PM

digger58 wrote: »

Please tell the victims of horrendous sexual abuse, by the religious orders that we all know about, that this behavior was natural,

by that logic, all sexual acts are unnatural :rolleyes:

baby and crumble · 05-02-2013 06:11PM

digger58 wrote: »

Please tell the victims of horrendous sexual abuse, by the religious orders that we all know about, that this behavior was natural,

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Pedophilia =/= homosexuality.

Benny_Cake · 05-02-2013 06:40PM

SoulandForm wrote: »

If its is natural than why did God condemn it to the point that it carried the death penalty under the Old Law (and not just the Old Law but also in the Code of Justinian- and no Im not advocating the death penalty for it)? If it is natural than Christianity must be a false Religion.

Banned for three weeks - ignored mod instruction to refrain from posting in this thread.

Benny_Cake · 05-02-2013 06:45PM

Just to clarify, when I said that homosexuality was natural, I meant simply that all available evidence indicates that it exists in nature,ie;someone's sexuality is either a genetic characteristic which they are born with, or is determined so early in life so as not to make any difference. To believe that someone's sexual orientation could be influenced by a nebulous "LGBT lobby" might be convenient in terms of justifying a particular point of view, but that doesn't make it true.

Zombrex · 05-02-2013 06:52PM

digger58 wrote: »

Yes Blonde hair is unnatural

Blonde hair is a naturally occurring phenomena

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blond#Evolution_of_blond_hair

Have you done Junior certificate biology, that dealt with genes? Or some non-Irish equivalent if you were raised in another country? You seem to be rather ignorant of these rather basic biological facts, it would take far too much time to educate you up to the level you would need to be at to participate in this discussion, particularly when you seem so resistant to learning about this subject.

digger58 · 05-02-2013 07:09PM

Zombrex, don't be selective in what you quote, if you want put in my FULL QUOTE which was " Yes Blonde hair is unnatural as well in a lot of cases!!!!!!!! i.e. the person sporting it is not naturally blonde."
That is a LOW LOW tactic to misquote someone, you must think you are a budding politician! No I did not do Junior cert biology, wasn't there in my day, it was called the Intermediate Certificate!

Bannasidhe · 05-02-2013 07:20PM

digger58 wrote: »

No I did not do Junior cert biology, wasn't there in my day, it was called the Intermediate Certificate!

I did the Inter Cert too - what's your point? That biology wasn't on the curriculum?

That's strange as I distinctly remember studying it for the Inter....

Links234 · 05-02-2013 10:03PM

Good news everyone!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/feb/05/gay-marriage-debate-politics-live-blog

"Equal marriage bill approved by 400 votes to 175"

lazygal · 05-02-2013 10:11PM

Links234 wrote: »

Good news everyone!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/feb/05/gay-marriage-debate-politics-live-blog

"Equal marriage bill approved by 400 votes to 175"

Excellent news. Nice to see bigotry, dressed up as 'concern' for children, being so roundly defeated.

Bannasidhe · 05-02-2013 10:22PM

and in other news - scientists say sexual orientation is determined in the womb...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm

Zombrex · 05-02-2013 11:11PM

digger58 wrote: »

Zombrex, don't be selective in what you quote, if you want put in my FULL QUOTE which was " Yes Blonde hair is unnatural as well in a lot of cases!!!!!!!! i.e. the person sporting it is not naturally blonde."
That is a LOW LOW tactic to misquote someone, you must think you are a budding politician! No I did not do Junior cert biology, wasn't there in my day, it was called the Intermediate Certificate!

Oh I'm sorry, was I not giving your clearly well thought out and considered rebuttal the required respect. You were countering my claim that blonde hair occurs naturally, where you not?

The full quote? Why would you need the full quote? Oh wait? Were you saying that blonde hair is only some times unnatural, in cases of people dying their hair it is unnatural?

But wouldn't that mean that blonde hair occurs naturally? Which is what I said originally. :rolleyes:

So I say blonde hair occurs naturally and you "counter" by saying that yes it does.

I'm beginning to suspect you are only arguing for the sake of it, and if I said the sky was blue you would say "IT IS NOT BLUE (when it is night time)"

digger58 · 05-02-2013 11:32PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I did the Inter Cert too - what's your point? That biology wasn't on the curriculum?

That's strange as I distinctly remember studying it for the Inter....

Not my point at all, not everybody on this forum is a member of the "junior Cert Club" What point are you trying to make? Are you suggesting I lack education? I did biology back in the 70's and have forgotten most of it, since I didn't choose a career in that field it didn't have much of an impact on my life. Like a lot of our education process we were forced to learn a lot of BULLS..T that has no practical application in our present life. A forum such as this is designed to encourage discussion, to do so one must accept that most of us have ideas that may be different and can be discussed in an adult manner without resorting to underhand methods, i.e. misquoting other posts. I am enjoying this as it seems I am really upsetting a few delicate souls, somewhat dissapointed that another contributor has been censured for their views, censorship stifles debate.
"What does homosexuality have to do with abuse?" Did I say that? NO, I was merely commenting on all the abuse allegations made against certain sections of religious orders, a lot of which were proven, Are you trying to say that the abusers were not homosexual? was it a case of "any port in a storm" or just curiosity ?
I have just discussed this thread this with my 23 yr old daughter, she states "It was Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve" and I have to agree. IT IS NOT NATURAL AND THAT IS THAT. I am not a moral judge but I still maintain that it is not natural.

baby and crumble , please read this.....

Pedophilia =/= homosexuality.
The word Pedophilia comes from the Greek: παῖς (paîs), meaning "child", and φιλία (philía), "friendly love" or "friendship", I hardly think abusing children shows a Love of them!!!!, I never suggested that all/any Homosexuals abuse children or adults for that matter, where did you get that idea from?

digger58 · 05-02-2013 11:40PM

Zombrex you are at it again, I DID not say blonde hair was unnatural, You were selective in what you quoted of my post, be adult and put in the FULL post in future if you wish to comment on it, Is a bleached blonde a natural blonde? I submit not, please expand

05-02-2013 11:50PM

digger58 wrote: »

"What does homosexuality have to do with abuse?" Did I say that? NO, I was merely commenting on all the abuse allegations made against certain sections of religious orders, a lot of which were proven, Are you trying to say that the abusers were not homosexual? was it a case of "any port in a storm" or just curiosity ?

What does paedophilia have to do with homosexuality? Why did you introduce the topic to this thread? There's hundreds of threads on the topic on Boards if you want to discuss paedophilia.

digger58 wrote: »

I have just discussed this thread this with my 23 yr old daughter, she states "It was Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve" and I have to agree. IT IS NOT NATURAL AND THAT IS THAT. I am not a moral judge but I still maintain that it is not natural.

You're not a moral judge, but you make a moral judgement that it's not natural. What makes it not natural? Why is it less natural than, say, you sending digital bits around a worldwide network in a matter of seconds? Or moving a 3 ton metal box through means of an internal combustion engine using the remains of long dead animals? If you can't answer that question, your "not natural" refrain is utter, utter nonsense

Bannasidhe · 05-02-2013 11:56PM

digger58 wrote: »

Not my point at all, not everybody on this forum is a member of the "junior Cert Club" What point are you trying to make? Are you suggesting I lack education? I did biology back in the 70's and have forgotten most of it, since I didn't choose a career in that field it didn't have much of an impact on my life. Like a lot of our education process we were forced to learn a lot of BULLS..T that has no practical application in our present life. A forum such as this is designed to encourage discussion, to do so one must accept that most of us have ideas that may be different and can be discussed in an adult manner without resorting to underhand methods, i.e. misquoting other posts. I am enjoying this as it seems I am really upsetting a few delicate souls, somewhat dissapointed that another contributor has been censured for their views, censorship stifles debate.
"What does homosexuality have to do with abuse?" Did I say that? NO, I was merely commenting on all the abuse allegations made against certain sections of religious orders, a lot of which were proven, Are you trying to say that the abusers were not homosexual? was it a case of "any port in a storm" or just curiosity ?
I have just discussed this thread this with my 23 yr old daughter, she states "It was Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve" and I have to agree. IT IS NOT NATURAL AND THAT IS THAT. I am not a moral judge but I still maintain that it is not natural.

baby and crumble , please read this.....

Pedophilia =/= homosexuality.
The word Pedophilia comes from the Greek: παῖς (paîs), meaning "child", and φιλία (philía), "friendly love" or "friendship", I hardly think abusing children shows a Love of them!!!!, I never suggested that all/any Homosexuals abuse children or adults for that matter, where did you get that idea from?

Did you miss the link I posted about sexual orientation being determined in the womb then?

The standard of your education is evident and needs no comment from me.

Your daughter wouldn't happen to be a member of Youth Defense would she?

Your constant references to child abuse is extremely tasteless and highly offensive.

Corkfeen · 06-02-2013 12:01AM

digger58 wrote: »

"What does homosexuality have to do with abuse?" Did I say that? NO, I was merely commenting on all the abuse allegations made against certain sections of religious orders, a lot of which were proven, Are you trying to say that the abusers were not homosexual? was it a case of "any port in a storm" or just curiosity ?

They were paedophiles, the attraction is to prepubescent children and there is no linkage to being homosexual. You shouldn't make such an off the wall claim on such a linkage if you can't back it up. You should also note that girls were also abused. Here's a study on the subject.

There is no reason to believe so. The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation. There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be homosexual
...
In a more recent literature review, Dr. Nathaniel McConaghy (1998) similarly cautioned against confusing homosexuality with pedophilia. He noted, "The man who offends against prepubertal or immediately postpubertal boys is typically not sexually interested in older men or in women" (p. 259).

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

philologos · 06-02-2013 12:40AM

Links234 wrote: »

Good news everyone!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/feb/05/gay-marriage-debate-politics-live-blog

"Equal marriage bill approved by 400 votes to 175"

Let's see the House of Lords. I can predict this legislation being used against those who disagree going forward into the future. However, it may serve a productive purpose in distinguishing those who believe in the Gospel in society from those who don't, and it may also serve a purpose in distinguishing those who believe in Jesus from those who don't in the world.

I trust that God is sovereign and in control, and just because the State is moving towards redefining marriage (and probably not just in this way into the future) it doesn't mean that the State is right, and it doesn't mean that the State will ultimately prevail.

NuMarvel · 06-02-2013 01:00AM

digger58 wrote: »

I have just discussed this thread this with my 23 yr old daughter, she states "It was Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve" and I have to agree. IT IS NOT NATURAL AND THAT IS THAT. I am not a moral judge but I still maintain that it is not natural.

On what grounds are you claiming it's not natural? Because the AI man said so? Because your daughter says so? Because someone might not be a natural blonde?

You can't just say THAT IS THAT and expect that to be the end of it. It's not how discussion forums work.

06-02-2013 01:06AM

philologos wrote: »

I can predict this legislation being used against those who disagree going forward into the future

Well... yes... that is the purpose and function of legislation.

philologos wrote: »

I trust that God is sovereign and in control, and just because the State is moving towards redefining marriage (and probably not just in this way into the future) it doesn't mean that the State is right, and it doesn't mean that the State will ultimately prevail.

Other people that believe in a different God (or the same one with a different interpretation) believe that this is God's work, what He wants to happen, and part of His divine will. Yet others think that we should all be leaving in Puritan enclaves. Which is one of the many reasons God has no place in civil legislation

Bannasidhe · 06-02-2013 01:09AM

philologos wrote: »

Let's see the House of Lords. I can predict this legislation being used against those who disagree going forward into the future. However, it may serve a productive purpose in distinguishing those who believe in the Gospel in society from those who don't, and it may also serve a purpose in distinguishing those who believe in Jesus from those who don't in the world.

I trust that God is sovereign and in control, and just because the State is moving towards redefining marriage (and probably not just in this way into the future) it doesn't mean that the State is right, and it doesn't mean that the State will ultimately prevail.

I'm not sure if you are coming across as a prophet of doom or a bad loser.

The Gay Megathread (see mod note on post #2212)

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