The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

J C · 01-02-2013 08:27PM

The Concrete Doctor wrote: »

You are avoiding the issue here. If God orderedand organised the flood and intentionally killed thousands of innocent young children, then he is most definitely not a loving God, as our society understands it. It is nonsense to blandly say "Death is ever-present". You sound like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer with that type of talk.

As a Christian, I can assure all parents that children who die in innocence, for example in abortion, go straight to Heaven. This doesn't mean that I'm a serial killer or that I support abortion ... in fact, I condemn them both ... and I object to your outrageous comparison of God and myself to Ted Bundy ...
... just because I pointed out that God can defeat the machinations of evil ... and just because God can, in extremis remove His people to the safety of Heaven!!!:(

The Concrete Doctor wrote: »

I don't want to skirt this issue by diverting the point away from the reality, that if the flood was planned, then so were the deaths of all those young children. You cannot get away with trivialising the slaughter and unbelievable suffering of so many innocent toddlers. To justify anyone doing that, reveals a mind incapable of reason and any real understanding of what love means.

You certainly don't 'pull your punches'!!!
...and I note that nobody, on this forum, has defended either myself or God from your outrageous remarks.

Anway, lets look at what was happening just before the Flood:-

Genesis 6
King James Version (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
The Earth had been turned into a place of gross evil at the time of the Flood ... so God did every child a favour by taking them to the safety of Heaven and away from the great evil that was being visited upon them, by the adults at that time ...
... and He will do the same thing with the Rapture ... and any Christian, who happens to be alive at the time, won't complain, when God removes them from the claws of the Antichrist and brings them to the safety of Heaven.
God is sovereign and He can turn evil plans to good ... and He executes vengeance on the non-repentent enemies of His people.

... and could I ask you if your apparent concern about the death of countless children in the Flood is matched by an equal concern about the fate of countless unborn children that are being killed today in abortion?

Aquarius34 · 01-02-2013 10:45PM

The Concrete Doctor wrote: »

You are avoiding the issue here. If God orderedand organised the flood and intentionally killed thousands of innocent young children, then he is most definitely not a loving God, as our society understands it. It is nonsense to blandly say "Death is ever-present". You sound like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer with that type of talk.

I don't want to skirt this issue by diverting the point away from the reality, that if the flood was planned, then so were the deaths of all those young children. You cannot get away with trivialising the slaughter and unbelievable suffering of so many innocent toddlers. To justify anyone doing that, reveals a mind incapable of reason and any real understanding of what love means.

Apart from the stupid Jim Corr comment, I appreciate these posts. This is the kind of intelligence people need to start been habitual about.

But the other point, we have to make and I've raised it earlier on. This "God" doesn't at all seem all knowing or all mighty according to what J.C professes about this God.

This God comes across as very jealous, cruel, psychopathic, short sighted, fearful, hateful and downright irresponsible.

If this "God" of all hated "sin", why would he create it?

The fact of the matter is. there is a lot of truths not been said and with that shows so much holes in everything that is been discussed on this subjecct. I am going to bullet point this so people understand what is missing here.

The flood did happen, and it happened just under 13,000 years ago
God of the bible, is not the creator of all, but an Annunaki being, called Jehovah
There was a war back then as to whether humanity was to be saved or destroyed when the flood would arrive. The Annunaki council ordered them to be destroyed and the rule was to not tell the humans at all, while a minority retaliated and went about their mission to save humanity. The result was the Ark. It was not a boat made out of timber..
Noah did exist, and was a grandson of Enki and has NO connection to the God of the Bible, since the God of the bible hated the human race and saw nothing good in them but just slaves
The God of the bible and Enki are half brothers, hence what the war was about, two brothers one wanting the human race wiped out and the other brother wanting to save mankind.
This war continues to this day, and most of it goes under the nose of most beings on this planet, mainly because the Oppressive Annunaki are still in control.
The God of the bible did not "create" the flood, Nibiru spun between Mars and Jupiter (as it does every 3,600 years) and caused our axis to tilt and thus created tectonic plates to slip and oceans to create Tsunami's all over the planet_

.

Aquarius34 · 01-02-2013 10:49PM

tommy2bad wrote: »

The clue is in the name Christianity

Glad you have raised that point.

Christ and Jesus are two very separate names and representations

Most religious people again, are flawed in the understanding of this and what is the actual difference between the two.

Aquarius34 · 01-02-2013 10:54PM

J C wrote: »

Not every sentence ... but Jesus is God made Man ... so everything He says is important .

Jesus is coming back allright ... but not just yet.

I see, not yet, I get that part.

It's a late bus that never seems to arrive. I get that point. :rolleyes:

No problem with people taking responsibility for their lives ... but nobody can save themselves from eternal perdition ... only Jesus can do that.

If we took responsibility for own lives, we wouldn't need Jesus.

Sorry what did you say, eternal perdition? And you mean to actually stand here on this thread and use that term for Jesus? A being that was prophesied to return for 2 centuries now. As usual, bible thumpers preach gospel and keep saying Jesus is to return, but nothing has happened. Still no sign of this Jesus. The world is a mess. The world is corrupt. Religion has caused the bloodiest wars in our history as to who is God and who is not. Here and now, we are still creating havoc on this world.

But Jesus is on a time schedule right?

J C · 02-02-2013 12:03AM

Aquarius34 wrote: »

This "God" doesn't at all seem all knowing or all mighty according to what J.C professes about this God.

This God comes across as very jealous, cruel, psychopathic, short sighted, fearful, hateful and downright irresponsible.

Some people are all these things and more ... but God is loving and just.

Aquarius34 wrote: »

If this "God" of all hated "sin", why would he create it?

God didn't create sin ... Adam and Eve get the credit for that.

Aquarius34 wrote: »

The flood did happen, and it happened just under 13,000 years ago
It happened about 5,000 years ago.

God of the bible, is not the creator of all, but an Annunaki being, called Jehovah
There is logically one Creator who is transcendent of time and space and He is the Triune God.

There was a war back then as to whether humanity was to be saved or destroyed when the flood would arrive. The Annunaki council ordered them to be destroyed and the rule was to not tell the humans at all, while a minority retaliated and went about their mission to save humanity. The result was the Ark. It was not a boat made out of timber..
There was a war in Heaven when Lucifer rebelled ... but he lost.

Noah did exist, and was a grandson of Enki and has NO connection to the God of the Bible, since the God of the bible hated the human race and saw nothing good in them but just slaves
Lucifer is the one who hates Humanity and wants to enslave them ... to help him to feel better about his fate of eternal perdition.

The God of the bible and Enki are half brothers, hence what the war was about, two brothers one wanting the human race wiped out and the other brother wanting to save mankind.
The God of the Bible is God ... and Lucifer is a fallen angel.

This war continues to this day, and most of it goes under the nose of most beings on this planet, mainly because the Oppressive Annunaki are still in control.
The war continues allright ... and the 'Annunaki' think that they are in control ... but they're not!!!:)

The God of the bible did not "create" the flood, Nibiru spun between Mars and Jupiter (as it does every 3,600 years) and caused our axis to tilt and thus created tectonic plates to slip and oceans to create Tsunami's all over the planet_
God triggered the Flood to rid the Earth of an irredeemably evil Humanity that lived at that time.

.

J C · 02-02-2013 12:06AM

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Glad you have raised that point.

Christ and Jesus are two very separate names and representations
Most religious people again, are flawed in the understanding of this and what is the actual difference between the two.

Every knee shall bend and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord ... and there is none other by which we may be Saved.

J C · 02-02-2013 12:48AM

Aquarius34 wrote: »

If we took responsibility for own lives, we wouldn't need Jesus.

Christians take responsibility for our own lives ... but Jesus is the only one who can Save us.

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Sorry what did you say, eternal perdition? And you mean to actually stand here on this thread and use that term for Jesus? A being that was prophesied to return for 2 centuries now. As usual, bible thumpers preach gospel and keep saying Jesus is to return, but nothing has happened. Still no sign of this Jesus. The world is a mess. The world is corrupt. Religion has caused the bloodiest wars in our history as to who is God and who is not. Here and now, we are still creating havoc on this world.

Saved Christians make love ... not war!!!!

... and here is the reason why Jesus is delaying His return ... to allow the maximum number of people to be Saved (see verse 9 below)
... and people who scoff at the promise of Jesus to return are predicted in verses 3-4:-

2 Peter 3
King James Version (KJV)

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Aquarius34 wrote: »

But Jesus is on a time schedule right?

He doesn't have a schedule ... He will decide in His own perfect wisdom when to remove the Church and the Holy Spirit at the Rapture ... and to allow the Man of Sin to reveal himself and his control system centred on 666.

Masteroid · 02-02-2013 02:58AM

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Apart from the stupid Jim Corr comment, I appreciate these posts. This is the kind of intelligence people need to start been habitual about.

But the other point, we have to make and I've raised it earlier on. This "God" doesn't at all seem all knowing or all mighty according to what J.C professes about this God.

This God comes across as very jealous, cruel, psychopathic, short sighted, fearful, hateful and downright irresponsible.

If this "God" of all hated "sin", why would he create it?

The fact of the matter is. there is a lot of truths not been said and with that shows so much holes in everything that is been discussed on this subjecct. I am going to bullet point this so people understand what is missing here.
The flood did happen, and it happened just under 13,000 years ago

God of the bible, is not the creator of all, but an Annunaki being, called Jehovah

There was a war back then as to whether humanity was to be saved or destroyed when the flood would arrive. The Annunaki council ordered them to be destroyed and the rule was to not tell the humans at all, while a minority retaliated and went about their mission to save humanity. The result was the Ark. It was not a boat made out of timber..

Noah did exist, and was a grandson of Enki and has NO connection to the God of the Bible, since the God of the bible hated the human race and saw nothing good in them but just slaves

The God of the bible and Enki are half brothers, hence what the war was about, two brothers one wanting the human race wiped out and the other brother wanting to save mankind.

This war continues to this day, and most of it goes under the nose of most beings on this planet, mainly because the Oppressive Annunaki are still in control.

The God of the bible did not "create" the flood, Nibiru spun between Mars and Jupiter (as it does every 3,600 years) and caused our axis to tilt and thus created tectonic plates to slip and oceans to create Tsunami's all over the planet_

.

All of which does make a more convincing narrative but there is a problem with the Nibiru part.

Nibiru would have to pass through the asteroid belt twice every orbit and this would cause the asteroid belt to become more depleted each time Nibiru passed through since it would 'lose' parts of itself to Nibiru through gravity. If Nibiru has been around for as long as earth, by now it has made over two million passes through the asteroid belt - there should be no asteroids left.

If you were to substitute Nibiru with a metoer impact or even have Nibiru as a large object that was simply passing through our solar system when it had a close encounter with earth then I would say that your version of events has a million times the credibility of J C's version which, as you correctly points out simply amounts to preaching while at the same time avoiding answering the harder questions.

And apart from that, if you consider that there have been a few name-changes, what you say is supported in the text of the bible.

Masteroid · 02-02-2013 03:30AM

J C wrote: »

You certainly don't 'pull your punches'!!!
...and I note that nobody, on this forum, has defended either myself or God from your outrageous remarks.

Yoy can't defend the indefensible.

J C wrote: »

Anway, lets look at what was happening just before the Flood:-

Genesis 6
King James Version (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Only in the bible can 2 + 4 = 5.:D

So, human girls are cute and the angels take them as they please plus + angels impregnating women = evil humans?

This is not sufficient to justify the slaughter of millions of children and beautiful women.

J C wrote: »

... and could I ask you if your apparent concern about the death of countless children in the Flood is matched by an equal concern about the fate of countless unborn children that are being killed today in abortion?

Let me ask you - why are you so set against unborn children having automatic access to heaven? Why would you want to risk their souls by forcing them to mature?

Aquarius34 · 02-02-2013 04:07AM

Masteroid wrote: »

All of which does make a more convincing narrative but there is a problem with the Nibiru part.

Nibiru would have to pass through the asteroid belt twice every orbit and this would cause the asteroid belt to become more depleted each time Nibiru passed through since it would 'lose' parts of itself to Nibiru through gravity. If Nibiru has been around for as long as earth, by now it has made over two million passes through the asteroid belt - there should be no asteroids left.

Twice every orbit? What?. It's a long eclipitical orbit that takes 3,600 years to return to the exact same place as it did before. It does deplete the asteroid belt. Eveytime it arrives, it creates havoc in our solar system the very same way you throw a rock in a river and everything shuffles about. That is why it's called the "destroyer" or purifier". Whenever it comes into our solar system it's like a rough storm period. When it does pass it happens very quick also. Some planets can be at the other side of the solar system and have barely any effect or impact to Nibiru's passing. The asteroid belt is there because of Nibiru....

If you were to substitute Nibiru with a metoer impact or even have Nibiru as a large object that was simply passing through our solar system when it had a close encounter with earth then I would say that your version of events has a million times the credibility of J C's version which, as you correctly points out simply amounts to preaching while at the same time avoiding answering the harder questions.

I don't avoid harder questions, there is no harder questions. Humans have a knack at trying to make simple things complicated. I avoid bull**** at every chance.

And apart from that, if you consider that there have been a few name-changes, what you say is supported in the text of the bible.

0f course, truth has to be mixed with lies...

J C · 02-02-2013 11:34AM

Masteroid wrote: »

Only in the bible can 2 + 4 = 5.:D

So, human girls are cute and the angels take them as they please plus + angels impregnating women = evil humans?

This is not sufficient to justify the slaughter of millions of children and beautiful women.

Where the result is cross-bred half men half demons ... only God could resolve this situation.

Masteroid wrote: »

Let me ask you - why are you so set against unborn children having automatic access to heaven? Why would you want to risk their souls by forcing them to mature?

That is the way God intended it ... and nobody has the right to take Human life ... indeed it is a great evil to do so.
Of course it is a great comfort to Christians to know that unborn children live in Heaven with their loving Heavenly Father.
Could I ask you why you support the deliberate killing of unborn children in abortion given your belief that this life is all there is? ...
... surely unborn children deserve to not have their lives deliberately cut short in such a manner?

dan dan · 02-02-2013 02:13PM

Gentlemen, The bible has been interpreted,over and over again by legions of scholars of their time . It has been mangled through so many languages and powers. Changed arranged and re arranged,to suit. Its original was composed of ancient unsubstantiated parchments,and folk memory.
It is really beautiful,but I fear the jig saw pieces are still in several separate bags.

As regards our great reasoning. Consider what do we really know,at this point? only a few years ago,the world was flat and a new sun was born every morning.
We cannot be sure of our reasoning,we cannot trust a word of the Bible.

J C · 02-02-2013 02:30PM

dan dan wrote: »

Gentlemen, The bible has been interpreted,over and over again by legions of scholars of their time . It has been mangled through so many languages and powers. Changed arranged and re arranged,to suit. Its original was composed of ancient unsubstantiated parchments,and folk memory.
It is really beautiful,but I fear the jig saw pieces are still in several separate bags.

The Bible is the unchanged Word of God ... people may try to re-interpret it and undoubtedly various powers have tried to use it ... or abandoned it altogether when it didn't support what they wanted to do. None of this has the least effect on the integrity of the Bible.

dan dan wrote: »

As regards our great reasoning. Consider what do we really know,at this point? only a few years ago,the world was flat and a new sun was born every morning.

You are right that Human reasoning has its limitations ... and sometimes it isn't used at all ... spontaneous evolution being an obvious example.:)

dan dan · 02-02-2013 04:24PM

The Bible being the unchanged and authentic word of God,is a nice feeling. However the Bible is from its birth, a concocted version of events. Bolstered by fragments of parchment. Interpretation of those ,although often disputed at the time,was bolstered by the folk memory of the story keepers as was tradition in the areas. Entire Gospels were omitted by choice. ETC.
We end up with a medieval english version of this already overstirred mash.
I love the Bible in fact. I am NOT a knocker. It has great guidelines,but must not be considered the last word . It was compiled and extended by devious power hungry people for their own ends.

J C · 02-02-2013 08:20PM

dan dan wrote: »

The Bible being the unchanged and authentic word of God,is a nice feeling. However the Bible is from its birth, a concocted version of events. Bolstered by fragments of parchment. Interpretation of those ,although often disputed at the time,was bolstered by the folk memory of the story keepers as was tradition in the areas. Entire Gospels were omitted by choice. ETC.
We end up with a medieval english version of this already overstirred mash.
I love the Bible in fact. I am NOT a knocker. It has great guidelines,but must not be considered the last word . It was compiled and extended by devious power hungry people for their own ends.

The Bible is the best authenticated ancient manuscript bar none. The Old Testament was precisely copied by scribes ... and even one mistake on a page meant that the entire page was disgarded. The New Testament has also been found to be an accurate account of the life of Jesus and the actions of the Apostles.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/08/is-old-testament-reliable
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/15/is-new-testament-reliable

Aquarius34 · 02-02-2013 09:17PM

J C wrote: »

The Bible is the best authenticated ancient manuscript bar none. The Old Testament was precisely copied by scribes ... and even one mistake on a page meant that the entire page was disgarded. The New Testament has also been found to be an accurate account of the life of Jesus and the actions of the Apostles.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/08/is-old-testament-reliable
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/03/15/is-new-testament-reliable

lol....

Aquarius34 · 02-02-2013 09:20PM

J.C God doesn't seem to care about everyone if the bible doesn't get around to everyone and of course the "word of God" isn't getting around then... I mean what about people in the Amazon and people who at far reaches of the planet? God has surely forgotten about them!

The word of God sadly hasn't reached everyone despite, God been all powerful and all knowing etc.

Also when is Jesus going to come back? I don't need saving, so what is hs going to do? Will he save all the people who don't currently have paperback bibles?

Benny_Cake · 02-02-2013 09:24PM

Aquarius34 wrote: »

lol....

Mod note: This is a discussion forum, unless someone has something to offer other than a three letter response, they should refrain for posting.

On an unrelated note, and this goes for everyone who posts on this thread, while a certain degree of weirdness and craziness has come to be tolerated on this thread, rudeness, trolling, and attempting to drag threads off-topic will not be tolerated. The charter applies here too.

J C · 03-02-2013 12:12PM

Aquarius34 wrote: »

J.C God doesn't seem to care about everyone if the bible doesn't get around to everyone and of course the "word of God" isn't getting around then... I mean what about people in the Amazon and people who at far reaches of the planet? God has surely forgotten about them!

The word of God sadly hasn't reached everyone despite, God been all powerful and all knowing etc.

God is a God of Justice and Love ... so all people will be given the opportunity to accept or reject Salvation. People who have genuinely never had this opprtunity in this life, will logically be given the opportunity at the point of death.

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Also when is Jesus going to come back? I don't need saving, so what is hs going to do? Will he save all the people who don't currently have paperback bibles?

Jesus Saves all who repent and ask to be Saved ... whether they have a Bible or not at the time.

... but this is getting somewhat off topic ... these issues should ideally be discussed on the Atheism/Christianity thread.

Here is an interesting video which is right on topic on the choice between Darwin and Design ... (with all of the evidence in favour of design) ... I give you the great Prof. Michael Behe (it's a good summary of the current science on the issue). He compares the examples of 'Darwinian Evolution in action' to throwing sophicticated equipment off a sinking ship thereby obtaining the 'benefit' of preventing the ship sinking ... which is a 'benefit' ... but the 'benefit' comes at the cost of a reduction in the overall 'fitness for purpose' of the ship into the future, and it also doesn't explain how the ship and its sophisticated equipment arose in the first place:-

J C · 04-02-2013 10:39PM

... and it's not just Prof Behe who has serious problems with Darwinian Evolution

... I give you the great Dr David Berlinski

The Concrete Doctor · 05-02-2013 01:09AM

J C wrote: »

As a Christian, I can assure all parents that children who die in innocence, for example in abortion, go straight to Heaven. This doesn't mean that I'm a serial killer or that I support abortion ... in fact, I condemn them both ... and I object to your outrageous comparison of God and myself to Ted Bundy ...
... just because I pointed out that God can defeat the machinations of evil ... and just because God can, in extremis remove His people to the safety of Heaven!!!:(

You certainly don't 'pull your punches'!!!
...and I note that nobody, on this forum, has defended either myself or God from your outrageous remarks.

... and could I ask you if your apparent concern about the death of countless children in the Flood is matched by an equal concern about the fate of countless unborn children that are being killed today in abortion?

I agree with you, it is totally outrageous to compare God to any Psycopath. I would never do that, but funny enough JC, you come close with some of your utterings, even though you don't seem to realise it. The God that Christians believe in is, in their minds, a truely loving God. A truely loving being could NEVER EVER, intentionally hurt any living thing. That is why, JC, the nonsense you believe in, about God deciding to kill everyone by drowning them all, is just that, nonsense! Unfortunately for you, there exists in that reality, the fact that the story of a world wide flood is a total fabrication. It is probably based on anecdotal evidence of some localised flooding, but by definition, love means love, not genocide and you are sadly deluded.
As for removing people to Heaven, to safety, by killing them, to protect them from the evils of their parents, that is just the rambling of a deranged mind. You really are confused about the meanings of the words Love and Justice.

For the record, I do not support abortion. Children, from the womb, through babyhood, childhood and adolescence, should be allowed to experience life with all its joys and occasional sadness. They should learn, through their own mistakes and by watching the world around them. To hurt or kill them at any stage in that development, for any reason, is an evil thing to do, I think you will agree.
That is why God could never do it! I rest my case.

The Concrete Doctor · 05-02-2013 10:18AM

J C wrote: »

... and it's not just Prof Behe who has serious problems with Darwinian Evolution

... I give you the great Dr David Berlinski

Dr Berlinski sounds like a perfectly reasonable man. He needs a whole lot more than the current studies on the finches of the Galapagos Islands in order for it to be taken as serious science. I dont think anyone could disagree with that.
I notice he doesn't talk about, or put forward, snakes who talk to people in the garden of Eden, or people who hear voices from burning bushes, as a viable, proven alternative.
Maybe that bit was edited out.

J C · 05-02-2013 11:57PM

The Concrete Doctor wrote: »

I agree with you, it is totally outrageous to compare God to any Psycopath. I would never do that, but funny enough JC, you come close with some of your utterings, even though you don't seem to realise it. The God that Christians believe in is, in their minds, a truely loving God. A truely loving being could NEVER EVER, intentionally hurt any living thing.

... what would a loving God do when faced with naked evil?
... say a Hitler or a Stalin ... would it be 'psychopathic' if He justly punished their evil?
Of course it wouldn't ... but do you know what ... the same evil that Hitler and Stalin are extreme examples of (Human Sin) ... is present in (lesser quantities) in all of us ... and deserves the same punishment, of eternal perdition, in varying degrees.

The Concrete Doctor wrote: »

That is why, JC, the nonsense you believe in, about God deciding to kill everyone by drowning them all, is just that, nonsense! Unfortunately for you, there exists in that reality, the fact that the story of a world wide flood is a total fabrication. It is probably based on anecdotal evidence of some localised flooding, but by definition, love means love, not genocide and you are sadly deluded.

It is an evidentially supported fact that the Flood happened and was a mass-extinction event. You are entitled to your opinion as to what caused it and whether God was involved in it.

The Concrete Doctor wrote: »

As for removing people to Heaven, to safety, by killing them, to protect them from the evils of their parents, that is just the rambling of a deranged mind. You really are confused about the meanings of the words Love and Justice.

So you believe that a loving Father who rescues His children and takes them into care when He finds them being abused by deeply evil adults is 'deranged' ... give me 'deranged' any day if that is what you call 'deranged'!!!

The Concrete Doctor wrote: »

For the record, I do not support abortion. Children, from the womb, through babyhood, childhood and adolescence, should be allowed to experience life with all its joys and occasional sadness. They should learn, through their own mistakes and by watching the world around them. To hurt or kill them at any stage in that development, for any reason, is an evil thing to do, I think you will agree.

I agree.

The Concrete Doctor wrote: »

That is why God could never do it! I rest my case.

God might have to do it if the situation was one of extremis ... and the situation just before the Flood was one of 'wall to wall' evil.

J C · 06-02-2013 12:05AM

The Concrete Doctor wrote: »

Dr Berlinski sounds like a perfectly reasonable man. He needs a whole lot more than the current studies on the finches of the Galapagos Islands in order for it to be taken as serious science. I dont think anyone could disagree with that.
I notice he doesn't talk about, or put forward, snakes who talk to people in the garden of Eden, or people who hear voices from burning bushes, as a viable, proven alternative.
Maybe that bit was edited out.

... Dr Berlinski isn't a Young Earth Creationist ... he is an ID proponent ... so does your respect for him and his logical arguments mean that you accept the validity of ID?.

The Concrete Doctor · 06-02-2013 01:06AM

J C wrote: »

... Dr Berlinski isn't a Young Earth Creationist ... he is an ID proponent ... so does your respect for him and his logical arguments mean that you accept the validity of ID?.

Dr Berlinski is a controversial mathematician and philosopher who puts forward scientific based arguments about Darwin. That's fair enough. There are thousands of equally eminent people who will debate with him, the merits of Darwin's theories. Newton had similar arguments with very eminent people in his day, about his theories on gravity.
If he thinks Darwin's theories are improbable what on earth would he say about the scientific accuracy or possibility of people living for seven or eight hundred years, like Noah, or talking snakes or burning bushes talking to people. You believe these stories so please present me with scientists who can scientifically verify those tales, just like you "give us" scientists who dispute Darwin.

Aquarius34 · 06-02-2013 02:41AM

The Concrete Doctor wrote: »

If he thinks Darwin's theories are improbable what on earth would he say about the scientific accuracy or possibility of people living for seven or eight hundred years, like Noah, or talking snakes or burning bushes talking to people. You believe these stories so please present me with scientists who can scientifically verify those tales, just like you "give us" scientists who dispute Darwin.

The human body can live as long as the mind want's it too. That doesn't need to be verified by science, what you need is to have common sense to understand how the mind and body work together. Pre flood times they lived longer because the vibrations and frequencies were higher and there was more light energy on the planet back then. Such a long one to explain but after the flood we plunged into the dark ages. Atlantis was destroyed due to war, corruption and of course the poleshift at that time which made the continent sink into the Ocean. What's left is a few Islands remaining such as the Azores.

Most knowledge and technology was lost. Many of the Annunaki left the planet and most of humankind was wiped out. Sea levels rose and the planet literally went through a reset. It's taken thousands of years for the elite to rebuild this world to what it is today.

The world as you see it today is merely a prison society now for the Eite. The Elite would be the ancestors of the Annunaki. The Annunaki host phyiscal bodies that last for 2000 years. It's all down to how they live, better technology and more knowledge.

The Concrete Doctor · 06-02-2013 11:06AM

Aquarius34 wrote: »

The human body can live as long as the mind want's it too. That doesn't need to be verified by science, what you need is to have common sense to understand how the mind and body work together. Pre flood times they lived longer because the vibrations and frequencies were higher and there was more light energy on the planet back then. Such a long one to explain but after the flood we plunged into the dark ages. Atlantis was destroyed due to war, corruption and of course the poleshift at that time which made the continent sink into the Ocean. What's left is a few Islands remaining such as the Azores.

Most knowledge and technology was lost. Many of the Annunaki left the planet and most of humankind was wiped out. Sea levels rose and the planet literally went through a reset. It's taken thousands of years for the elite to rebuild this world to what it is today.

The world as you see it today is merely a prison society now for the Eite. The Elite would be the ancestors of the Annunaki. The Annunaki host phyiscal bodies that last for 2000 years. It's all down to how they live, better technology and more knowledge.

Where do you get this information from? It is quite fantastic and would make a great Discovery documentary, if it had any validity. I never hear any recognised scientists discussing it, in fact I've never heard ANYONE discussing it. You seem to be a human singularity Aquarious.

The Concrete Doctor · 06-02-2013 12:40PM

"So you believe that a loving Father who rescues His children and takes them into care when He finds them being abused by deeply evil adults is 'deranged' ... give me 'deranged' any day if that is what you call 'deranged'!!!"

No JC. My problem is that you equate "rescuing" with killing. You make it sound so benign when you say "taking them into his care". In actual fact he kills them and they experience an early death, which was extremely painful and distressing.

"God might have to do it if the situation was one of extremis ... and the situation just before the Flood was one of 'wall to wall' evil.[/QUOTE]

Quite clearly there was not "wall to wall evil" when a huge number of the people were, in fact children and babies who were not evil. I am sure that the evil present in the recent past, like 1939 -1945 was just as bad as anything that happened at any time in history.

Masteroid · 06-02-2013 03:57PM

J C wrote: »

... what would a loving God do when faced with naked evil?
... say a Hitler or a Stalin ... would it be 'psychopathic' if He justly punished their evil?

Not if Hitler or Stalin repent and accept Jesus Christ as their saviour. If they did that then their evil will be un-noticed by God.

J C wrote: »

Of course it wouldn't ... but do you know what ... the same evil that Hitler and Stalin are extreme examples of (Human Sin) ... is present in (lesser quantities) in all of us ... and deserves the same punishment, of eternal perdition, in varying degrees.

And yet Hitler may well reside with your loving father who despises evil.:p

J C wrote: »

It is an evidentially supported fact that the Flood happened and was a mass-extinction event. You are entitled to your opinion as to what caused it and whether God was involved in it.

No it is not.

J C wrote: »

So you believe that a loving Father who rescues His children and takes them into care when He finds them being abused by deeply evil adults is 'deranged' ... give me 'deranged' any day if that is what you call 'deranged'!!!

When did God decide to stop rescuing children from abusive adults?

J C wrote: »

God might have to do it if the situation was one of extremis ... and the situation just before the Flood was one of 'wall to wall' evil.

Where was God when millions of Chinese were being slaughtered?

Where was He when the schools in Iraq were being bombed?

God is not in the rescue business and He does not hear the prayers of children who don't want to be abused.

Masteroid · 06-02-2013 04:24PM

J C wrote: »

... what would a loving God do when faced with naked evil?
... say a Hitler or a Stalin ... would it be 'psychopathic' if He justly punished their evil?
Of course it wouldn't ... but do you know what ... the same evil that Hitler and Stalin are extreme examples of (Human Sin) ... is present in (lesser quantities) in all of us ... and deserves the same punishment, of eternal perdition, in varying degrees.

Exactly, what would a 'loving God do?

'A loving God' would have dealt with Hitler before more than six-million of His children were tortured and murdered in his concentration camps.

'A loving God' would turn bombs that are falling on schools into confetti.

'A loving God' would cause a paedophile priest to have a stroke before he could abuse the praying child.

The evidence is that if God does exist, He is not at all loving. Remember, it was God who put a murderous drunk in charge of Christianity.

Also, if all humans from infants to the elderly are inherently evil as you believe, then how can you rule out the possibility that Hitler was simply a plague sent by God to punish the wicked?

Think about it, all of the people that suffered because of Hitler were evil by your own definition and therefore deserving of eternal damnation.

And tell me, how can there be varying degrees of eternal perdition? Will the 'lake of fire prepared for Satan and his angels' be able to differentiate levels of sin?

How many ways can one 'burn for eternity'?

The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

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