Dogmatic vs. Canny Collar vs. Halti

Knine wrote: »

If you had tried the Dogmatic you would realise that it does not ride up into the dogs eyes. You also have full control of the dog. I have used them on lots of dogs and none of them minded wearing them. It also meant I could walk several large male dogs at once.
There was no fear of the dog escaping. You simply can't compare a cheap nylon halti to the more comfortable Dogmatic.
You would not need to yank a dog and unfortunately any person who thinks this is acceptable will yank or pull the dog around no matter what the dog is wearing.

Knine wrote: »

Well I walked some large working gundog breeds on them and I can assure you there was no bucking or jumping. These were extremely fit entire males. You seen breeds bucking and jumping but they were most likely not wearing the Dogmatic.

For what its worth I gave away the front connection harness as it was useless and rubbed the dogs skin.

If you get the correct size it does not ride up on the dogs face even those with short muzzles.

Hailed as a positive training tool when it first arrived on the scene in the mid 1990s, the head halter has stirred much discussion among trainers. This tool works like a halter on a horse; it controls the dog’s head, and where the head goes, the body must follow. Some halter proponents suggest that it also mimics the sensation of a mother dog carrying her puppy by the scruff, and that this function calms the dog wearing the halter. I’m not convinced, and I haven’t seen any studies to support this hypothesis.

To the human perception, the head halter appears much more positive than a chain, prong, or shock collar around a dog’s neck. To a significant number of dogs, however, the halter seems to be at least mildly (and in many cases greatly) aversive. Most dogs need to be desensitized to a head halter prior to actual use. If you put it on without a gradual introduction and lots of association with a reinforcer (treats!) you’re likely to get lots of resistance from the dog - pawing and clawing at the halter, bucking against the leash, and attempts to rub it off. Many dogs, even when they’ve accepted it, will still try to rub it off if given the opportunity. In addition, the head halter tends to suppress behavior and subdue the wearer. People often mistake “subdued” for “calm.” If your dog’s whole personality changes - his tail droops, his eyes lose their sparkle - then you’re looking at a subdued dog, not a calm one. There may be times when that’s useful, but a positive training program generally avoids behavior suppression and encourages the dog to offer behaviors that can be reinforced. There are a number of different models of head halter. Each new design that comes on the scene purports to be more easily accepted by the dog. That tells you something!

boomerang wrote: »

Can we not just agree to disagree? It's ridiculous to suggest that a product works for all dogs, 100% of the time. That's why I take your point that the front-connection harness chafed your dog, although that hasn't been the case with any of the dogs I've seen being walked with one, including Dobermanns, Bull Terriers, Labradors, Papillons, and Japanese Spitz.

Bottom line here is that I have seen head collars NOT to work well, they have drawbacks and they don't suit every dog. I don't like them. And whether I invest in a Dogmatic or not, they don't suit my dog, whatever you might say.