The Magdaline laundries

orestes · 03-02-2013 02:44AM

Madam_X wrote: »

Sweden was a totally spearheading nation of eugenics.

/stirs sh1t :pac:

Sure, they got a country that is a modern utopia of civil rights populated by blonde haired, blue-eyed beautiful and happy people with an amazing standard of living and a thriving economy whilst also maintaining their cultural identity during the homogenisation of Europe, but does that make it right?

Hang on, I think I've made a mess of this one...

Czarcasm · 03-02-2013 02:45AM

Jay Slow Leak wrote: »

Bloody Swedes.

The dirt was bound to turnip eventually.

gammygils · 03-02-2013 02:51AM

SamHall wrote: »

Its not a fcukin chimney.

Nodin wrote: »

???

It's a quote from the movie.
When the van drivers assistant was looking under Bernadette's skirt he
was smoking a cigarette. She says ''It's not a fcukin chimney''

Jimoslimos · 03-02-2013 02:56AM

It was awful shocking what went on in the laundries and elsewhere in Ireland. As a maturing nation we should take note and accept a degree of collective responsibility for what occurred and strive to ensure it doesn't happen again.

However the desire for self-flagellation and self-hatred is overboard and dare I say it, a bit Catholic.

steddyeddy · 03-02-2013 03:06AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

It was awful shocking what went on in the laundries and elsewhere in Ireland. As a maturing nation we should take note and accept a degree of collective responsibility for what occurred and strive to ensure it doesn't happen again.

However the desire for self-flagellation and self-hatred is overboard and dare I say it, a bit Catholic.

Bang on the money.

Da Shins Kelly · 03-02-2013 03:16AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

It was awful shocking what went on in the laundries and elsewhere in Ireland. As a maturing nation we should take note and accept a degree of collective responsibility for what occurred and strive to ensure it doesn't happen again.

However the desire for self-flagellation and self-hatred is overboard and dare I say it, a bit Catholic.

I often think of Germany when stuff like this is brought up. They've accepted what happened during the war, taken on the responsibility and have all kinds of memorials and such to commemorate those who died and make sure it's not forgotten and that everyone is educated on the matter without resorting to guilt-tripping and self-loathing. It's quite a positive and reverent attitude to the whole thing. It seems like so many Irish people just revel in guilt and shame though, and I actually think that is detrimental to progress and stops people from actually addressing the problems and moving on.

catchery · 03-02-2013 03:30AM

The laundries stayed open until 1996 as homes for the women who had been there most of, or all of, their lives and were institutionalised. The system of imprisoning pregnant girls there was long over by 1996.[/QUOTE]

this is untrue my friend was with 12 girls in one with older residents when she was pregnant in1992 she was 16! cannot and never has spoken of it

padd b1975 · 03-02-2013 10:12AM

catchery wrote: »

The laundries stayed open until 1996 as homes for the women who had been there most of, or all of, their lives and were institutionalised. The system of imprisoning pregnant girls there was long over by 1996.

this is untrue my friend was with 12 girls in one with older residents when she was pregnant in1992 she was 16! cannot and never has spoken of it

You really do have to blame the girls family in this case.

ilovesleep · 03-02-2013 03:15PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

It was awful shocking what went on in the laundries and elsewhere in Ireland. As a maturing nation we should take note and accept a degree of collective responsibility for what occurred and strive to ensure it doesn't happen again.

However the desire for self-flagellation and self-hatred is overboard and dare I say it, a bit Catholic.

The upcoming report will highlight so much and ireland will turn a blind eye and brush it back in under the carpet where according to some here, it shouldn't have been swept up at all.

Mouldy Mary · 03-02-2013 03:52PM

In my day girls behaved themselves because they didn't want to be sent to the Magdalen Laundry. There was no reeling around drunk and nearly naked in town at the weekend. Not every change is for the better.

Banjo String · 03-02-2013 03:53PM

Nodin wrote: »

???

Infamous line from the movie.

Grayson · 03-02-2013 04:03PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

As a victim of abuse I can safely say I'm not ashamed of the irish. It was Irish people who helped me back onto the road to recovery. When I told most of my mates about what happened to me they have went out of their way to help me. Irish people have nothing to be ashamed about, The individuals who commited these crimes do but they do not represent the Irish as a whole.

I'd disagree. We do have something to be ashamed of because we allowed these institutions. The state supported them.

The fact that other countries did horrible stuff doesn't lessen our guilt.

I think that these facts should be widely known. They should be taught in school the way the holocaust is in germany. We, as a nation, behaved terribly. That doesn't mean that irish people can't be nice. There are plenty of germans both now and during the 30/40's that were nice. But we should, as a nation, realise that we are collectively responsable for letting it happen.

Grayson · 03-02-2013 04:05PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

You really do have to blame the girls family in this case.

And the parish priest and the GP. They were probably both involved.

Institutions like that never operate in the shadows. They need the acceptance of local people, including those with influence in the community, to operate.

Jimminy Mc Fukhead · 03-02-2013 04:16PM

Mouldy Mary wrote: »

In my day girls behaved themselves because they didn't want to be sent to the Magdalen Laundry. There was no reeling around drunk and nearly naked in town at the weekend. Not every change is for the better.

It's nice when people of their own free choice choose high standards for themselves.

Virtue at the end of a barrel of a gun isn't worth a whole lot.

mikemac1 · 03-02-2013 04:17PM

jjbrien wrote: »

Sometimes i wonder if eamon de valera was a hero or a criminal it was his idea to give the church a special place in the constitution which in turn allowed the church to get up to all these sins

Wikipedia has a good article about it

The State recognises the special position of the Holy Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church as the guardian of the Faith professed by the great majority of the citizens.

The State also recognises the Church of Ireland, the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, the Methodist Church in Ireland, the Religious Society of Friends in Ireland, as well as the Jewish Congregations and the other religious denominations existing in Ireland at the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution.

And it was the majority of the citizens.
Nothing outrageous there. Nothing legal, no defined extra powers.

I'm not sure what I was expecting but it looks pretty tame to me

Gummy Panda · 03-02-2013 04:20PM

SamHall wrote: »

Its not a fcukin chimney.

Nodin wrote: »

???

When the milk lad is looking at the dark haired ones fanny he blows smoke onto it and she says "Its not a fúcking chimney"

Grayson · 03-02-2013 04:20PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Wikipedia has a good article about it

And it was the majority of the citizens.
Nothing outrageous there. Nothing legal, no defined extra powers.

I'm not sure what I was expecting but it looks pretty tame to me

I disagree with any mention of religion in the constitution except maybe a statement regarding fredom of belief. But yeah, that is pretty tame.

Unfortunately in practice it meant that the catholic church ran the laundries, 99% of the primary schools, most of the secondary schools and the hospitals.

mikemac1 · 03-02-2013 04:24PM

Aye and we didn't have MRSA from badly run and dirty wards

HSE could learn something from the nuns and the ward sisters

Assassin saphir · 03-02-2013 04:24PM

Mouldy Mary wrote: »

In my day girls behaved themselves because they didn't want to be sent to the Magdalen Laundry. There was no reeling around drunk and nearly naked in town at the weekend. Not every change is for the better.

Are you for real????
So girls who go out at the weekend, get drunk and wear skimpy clothes deserve to be locked up, beaten and put to work?
The magdalene laundries didn't solve anything, they ruined the lives of thousands of women.

Shame on you!

Madam_X · 03-02-2013 04:29PM

Assassin saphir wrote: »

Are you for real????
So girls who go out at the weekend, get drunk and wear skimpy clothes deserve to be locked up, beaten and put to work?
The magdalene laundries didn't solve anything, they ruined the lives of thousands of women.

Shame on you!

Don't give them what they want. They're either sick or a troll and there's no talking to them. They actually said when it comes to North Korean death camps that the prisoners shouldn't commit the crime if they don't want to end up there. And they said women who don't wear a skirt to a job interview don't deserve a job.

Ironically, even though girls were "more well behaved" back then, several of them still got raped and sent to those hell-holes. A victim-blamer refuses to see these things though, especially a misogynistic woman. Logic: long departed.

Assassin saphir · 03-02-2013 04:35PM

Madam_X wrote: »

Don't give them what they want. They're either sick or a troll and there's no talking to them. They actually said when it comes to North Korean death camps that the prisoners shouldn't commit the crime if they don't want to end up there. And they said women who don't wear a skirt to a job interview doesn't deserve a job.
Ironically, even though girls were "more well behaved" back then, several of them still got raped and sent to those hell-holes. A victim-blamer refuses to see these things though, especially a misogynistic woman - logic: long departed.

True. I've just read her previous posts.

admiralofthefleet · 03-02-2013 04:38PM

Mouldy Mary wrote: »

In my day girls behaved themselves because they didn't want to be sent to the Magdalen Laundry. There was no reeling around drunk and nearly naked in town at the weekend. Not every change is for the better.

my late grandmother repeatedly told me when her mother died in 1947 the catholic church constantly showed up at her door wanting to take her youngest sister away because 'he was too beautiful for this world'. my grandmother was the oldest child when her mother died (17) and had to keep telling them to leave them alone, but they wouldnt. eventually when she turned 18 she told them never to set foot at the door again because she was caring for her sister

So tell me, Mouldy Mary, should my grand aunt have been taken into a laundry because she was 'too beautuful for this world'?

Madam_X · 03-02-2013 05:01PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Aye and we didn't have MRSA from badly run and dirty wards

HSE could learn something from the nuns and the ward sisters

Terrorising the minions will get the hospitals sparkly clean all right. My mother was a trainee nurse in Dublin in the '60s - they were worked to the bone cleaning and washing. Some cleaning and washing as part of nursing is fair enough, but they were being used to do the jobs of a nurse AND a cleaner.

There was a few nuns left in the convent school I went to - they were mostly all right in fairness. The odd bitter one as expected. Within the convents there was a rigid hierarchical system - based on social class. The nuns from the well-to-do families lived a life of privilege - good education, foreign holidays, lovely living quarters. The nuns from the "lowest" classes were made to work as their servants and got no privileges, and they slept in quarters outside the convent. Doubt they all chose that life - surely some were forced into it or entered it to escape poverty and destitution.

So the rot was already embedded in the convent system, and the children in their "care" were the ultimate victims.

What gets me too is the hatred women had for women. Misogyny from women is worse than that from men IMO.

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

my late grandmother repeatedly told me when her mother died in 1947 the catholic church constantly showed up at her door wanting to take her youngest sister away because 'he was too beautiful for this world'. my grandmother was the oldest child when her mother died (17) and had to keep telling them to leave them alone, but they wouldnt. eventually when she turned 18 she told them never to set foot at the door again because she was caring for her sister

So tell me, Mouldy Mary, should my grand aunt have been taken into a laundry because she was 'too beautuful for this world'?

Oh Jesus that is just chilling... :-/

ilovesleep · 03-02-2013 05:01PM

ColeTrain wrote: »

It would make you sick thinking of the power the church held back then.

Absolutely! Its a rotten, toxic organisation and thats all it is. Thankfully it doesn't have as much of a hold over us anymore but they are still there. The church should have zero influence over state but they do still have a grab on things.
Cloyne report was issued in summer 2011 and zero action from the government was taken since then in relation to church and state. A lecture will be given in the Dail on the lines of this was so bad and cannot and will not ever happen again. Buts that's it. It's all just words. It will be forgoten about in a week and swept right back in under the carpet.

Grayson · 03-02-2013 05:19PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

Absolutely! Its a rotten, toxic organisation and thats all it is. Thankfully it doesn't have as much of a hold over us anymore but they are still there. The church should have zero influence over state but they do still have a grab on things.
Cloyne report was issued in summer 2011 and zero action from the government was taken since then in relation to church and state. A lecture will be given in the Dail on the lines of this was so bad and cannot and will not ever happen again. Buts that's it. It's all just words. It will be forgoten about in a week and swept right back in under the carpet.

Anyone still alive who was involved with institutional slavery should if possible be tried.

Solair · 03-02-2013 05:29PM

The direct impact on the victims was horrendous but I think what compounds it even more is that Ireland became independent claiming to stand against all of this kind of thing.

We were supposed to be a republic which stood for liberty, equality, freedom and all of those positive things. Instead, we paid lip service to all of those things and handed power over to some of the most right-wing, oppressive, twisted, power-hungry, freedom-hating institutions and individuals that we could find.

Not only was this a terrible thing that destroyed lives, I think it actually destroyed the country.

The main thing we need to do is recognise what happened, stand up for the victims and do something to ensure that it never happens EVER again.

Maybe we need a new constitution, maybe we need a whole new system of Government but we cannot just go on as-is.

For example, why do we have our legislators in the Dail/Seanad and local authorities saying prayers before every meeting?

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/a-misc/prayer.htm

Paidir

Iarraimíd Ort, a Thiarna, d'anáil naofa a chur fúinn chun sinn a stiúradh inár ngníomhartha agus neart do ghrásta a bhronnadh orainn chun iad a thabhairt chun críche, ionas gur uaitse a thosófar ár n-uile bhriathar agus ár n-uile ghníomh feasta, agus gur tríot a chríochnófar iad; trí Chríost ár dTiarna.

Prayer

Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen.

The above prayer is said at the commencement of each day's business in the Dáil by the Ceann Comhairle, and in the Seanad by the Clerk of the Seanad.

How the **** is that compatible with anything other than a christian theocracy? It's certainly massively out of place in a functioning republic.

FFS ! It's a meeting of a parliament not a mass!

We need to stop looking at this country through green-tinted glasses and start addressing some of the massive problems with how we do things.

How about having TDs/Senators etc swear an oath to carry out their jobs only in the interest of the people instead of praying and basically swearing allegiance to the church!?

We cannot keep handing power over to religious organisations like this. It's crazy!

Until we run this country as an actual democracy i.e. no more corporatism, no more vested interests influencing everything from the inside, we will always have abuses of power be they horrendous physical attacks on citizens like these institutional abuses or massive financial stuff like the banking mess.

Nodin · 03-02-2013 06:23PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Aye and we didn't have MRSA from badly run and dirty wards

HSE could learn something from the nuns and the ward sisters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL6bE7fd3sI

Mouldy Mary · 03-02-2013 06:27PM

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

my late grandmother repeatedly told me when her mother died in 1947 the catholic church constantly showed up at her door wanting to take her youngest sister away because 'he was too beautiful for this world'. my grandmother was the oldest child when her mother died (17) and had to keep telling them to leave them alone, but they wouldnt. eventually when she turned 18 she told them never to set foot at the door again because she was caring for her sister

So tell me, Mouldy Mary, should my grand aunt have been taken into a laundry because she was 'too beautuful for this world'?

You are making that up. The age of majority was 21 at that time. Turning 18 was of no significance.

Grayson · 03-02-2013 06:32PM

Mouldy Mary wrote: »

You are making that up. The age of majority was 21 at that time. Turning 18 was of no significance.

Great, now you're calling people liars.

I believe you're thinking of when people can vote. Not when they reach an age where they were considered independant.

Solair · 03-02-2013 06:35PM

Hospital acquired infections are more to do with over-dependence on antibiotics not a lack of nuns!

Amazingly enough, nuns weren't the only people operating hospitals in the old days. It was just different approach to infection control which was industry-standard at the time.

1) Hospitals became lazy. In the past they had to rely on simple scrubbing, sterilizing and washing to prevent infection. Antibiotics meant you could just deal with minor infections as they cropped up.

2) Antibiotic over-use has created super-bugs that are not easy to treat.

3) Many patients these days are immune-suppressed due to cancer-treatments mostly that are vastly more complex than in the olden days with the nuns. You may not have picked up MRSA, but you'd probably have died from what we now consider relatively treatable cancers.

4) We also have no statistics about hospital acquired infections for the olden days. So, we could be talking utter nonsense. You were probably less likely to recover in the olden days from what are now quite simple to treat problems due to high tech medicine.

So, can we please stop crediting "the nuns" with stuff like this.

It's not a choice between sloppy HSE management and 'The Nuns'.
We could have competently run hospitals without nuns! In fact, many, many places do!

The Magdaline laundries

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