Dogmatic vs. Canny Collar vs. Halti

bluecherry74 · 06-12-2012 03:21PM #1

One of my setters persistently pulls on the lead despite numerous attempts to train him. I've done the walk/stop, walk/turn-around techniques plus some others. I've also tried various harnesses with limited success.

I've been putting off a head collar as a last resort because I don't like the idea of them, but I think I need to give one a go. I have some questions for those of you who've used them.

1) What are the differences between the Dogmatic, the Canny collar and the Halti in terms of how they connect to the dog and prevent him from pulling?

2) Do any of them require a double ended lead? I have 2 dogs and usually hold a lead in each hand, and I find a double ended lead difficult to control properly.

3) Do any of them cause any pain to the dog? Pain is a big no for me.

4) Some of them look like they have a side attachment, so does it matter which side of me the dog is on? Henry walks on my right, while the convention is for dogs to walk on the left.

5) Do any of them actually help train the dog not to pull or will I end up having to use one forever? :rolleyes:

I'm leaning towards a Dogmatic because it's received glowing praise on here, but I'm open to any and all opinions!

Thanks a mil

donnamcv · 06-12-2012 04:01PM

The Canny Collar is different to the others because the lead attaches behind the dogs head and not under the chin so you do not get the head being pulled to the side. There are not lots of straps around the dogs face, just one line that goes over the nose - so you don't get straps going into the dogs eyes. It works on a pressure and release system, is very kind and does not cause any pain to the dog whatsoever, when the dog is not pulling the strap goes loose, in fact many vets and animal chiropractors recommend them. It works on the same principles as a horses bitless bridle, which is where the design came from. It is a training collar and whilst wearing it, the over the nose line can be taken off and the collar used like a standard collar and lead, ususally after a few weeks of wearing you can get your dog to this stage, and train your dog gradually. Whichever ever collar you choose if your dog has never worn any type of 'head' collar (Canny is not really a headcollar) your dog may need to be introduced slowly. There are some fantastic tips, videos and testimonies on the website - www.cannyco.com

I have not used the other collars so can't comment but I do use Canny Collar on my own dogs and find them extremely effective.

morton · 06-12-2012 05:23PM

I have used all 3 collars on one of my dogs and now walk him using the dogmatic. I found the canny collar and halti would ride up his face, and he was able to get his paw in behind the bit that goes over the nose, when we were stopped and in general found these collars didn't improve on stopping him pulling.

As a last resort, I bought the dogmatic( was expensive enough ordering in from uk but in hindsight worth it) and I'm very happy with it. On our firsts few outings, my dog stalled and scratched at it a bit, as it was new to him but now he walks normally with it on. It looks like a horses bridle on him. Once you get the sizing right, it is very comfortable on the dog and the one I have is lightly padded. I have never had any rubbing on the dogs skin, it has never ridden up his face and my dog has never been able to paw it off his face. I clip the lead onto the ring under his chin and the dog can be walked on either side and his head doesn't pull sideways either.

Whispered · 06-12-2012 05:49PM

I've used the Halti and the dogmatic. I much prefer the front connection harnesses. I think the dogs find it more comfortable and I feel I have more control because it's much harder to slip out of. Plus, I don't like the idea of controlling the dog by the face. I know it does no harm, but I prefer the chest control, I feel it's less stress on the neck should the dog try to keep pulling.

morton · 06-12-2012 05:49PM

Here's what he looks like

RubyGirl · 06-12-2012 07:11PM

morton wrote: »

Here's what he looks like

Same one here for walking my retriever, be lost without it. What size dog do you have, I have a second one brand new but to big for my lady.

Shelli2 · 07-12-2012 02:05AM

Very interesting thread, i'm wondering the same thing. I have a non pull harness for my 7mth old GS and it seems to be working ok, but have been looking into a head halter too.

bluecherry74 · 07-12-2012 08:59AM

Thanks for all the responses! I think I'm going to give the Dogmatic a go and see how it works out. I have a bulging disc in my back due to an injury earlier this year and I really have to sort out the pulling problem before I do more damage. I'm also on the waiting list for a "no more pulling" workshop after Christmas.

Whispered wrote: »

I've used the Halti and the dogmatic. I much prefer the front connection harnesses. I think the dogs find it more comfortable and I feel I have more control because it's much harder to slip out of. Plus, I don't like the idea of controlling the dog by the face. I know it does no harm, but I prefer the chest control, I feel it's less stress on the neck should the dog try to keep pulling.

I've tried 2 different front connection harnesses but they weren't even a tiny bit effective. I found it difficult to control the double ended lead whilst holding the other dog's lead and Henry would just end up galloping along sideways. Even when I walked him on his own with it and could control it properly he still pulled. I have had some limited success with the Sporn no pull harness but he still pulls enough to make walking stressful.

In addition to making my back problem worse, it's unfair on my other dog who is either getting pulled all over the place or having to stop or turn around every 5 seconds in my efforts to train Henry.

morton wrote: »

Here's what he looks like

Thanks for posting the photo. It's good to see that they fit a dog with a tapered snout!

RubyGirl wrote: »

Same one here for walking my retriever, be lost without it. What size dog do you have, I have a second one brand new but to big for my lady.

He's an English setter and on the small side so I imagine if it's too big for your dog it'll be too big for mine. I haven't measured him yet but according to the website he should be a size 3 or 3L.

jamesd · 07-12-2012 10:57AM

Use the dogmatic on our Akita and love it, we had alot of bother walking him before it as he used to tow us along the road.

Shelli2 · 24-12-2012 08:48PM

I think i'm going to give the dogmatic a try. Is there anywhere in Dublin that stocks them?

RubyGirl · 24-12-2012 08:52PM

Shelli2 wrote: »

I think i'm going to give the dogmatic a try. Is there anywhere in Dublin that stocks them?

I think it's only online you can get them?

bluecherry74 · 24-12-2012 09:03PM

Yep, pretty sure you can only get then online. Mine arrived a week ago and I've been meaning to post an update. It's remarkable. Walks have gone from something I used to dread to pure enjoyment.

The first time I put the dogmatic on Henry he wasn't too impressed and tried to paw it off. As soon as I attached his lead and took him outside he was a happy enough and went for a short walk without much fuss. He's totally used to it now. He lets me put it on without any hassle and doesn't pull or protest while we're out walking. It feels quite secure too, I don't think he could wriggle out of it too easily.

I'm still not crazy about using it though and I really hope that eventually we'll be able to go back to using a harness. Has anyone been able to give up their dogmatic or halti and go back to a regular harness or collar?

Shelli2 · 24-12-2012 10:38PM

I've ordered one on Amazon. I'm hoping it fits now

ShaShaBear · 25-12-2012 01:40AM

RubyGirl wrote: »

I think it's only online you can get them?

99 percent sure they stock dogmatic in Pet Connection in Newry

Shelli2 · 07-01-2013 09:46PM

So I bought the dogmatic direct from their website in the end, (delivered through parcelmotel to save on delivery costs), and I have to say I don't know how I ever managed without it!

I really can't rave enough about this genius contraption! Bradley had his first walk with it this morning and the immediate difference was astounding. Withing 5 mins he had stopped pawing at it and was walking to heel with a slack lead, it was like a dream!

Anyone considering buying one, go for it, you won't regret it!

RubyGirl · 07-01-2013 10:36PM

Shelli2 wrote: »

So I bought the dogmatic direct from their website in the end, (delivered through parcelmotel to save on delivery costs), and I have to say I don't know how I ever managed without it!

I really can't rave enough about this genius contraption! Bradley had his first walk with it this morning and the immediate difference was astounding. Withing 5 mins he had stopped pawing at it and was walking to heel with a slack lead, it was like a dream!

Anyone considering buying one, go for it, you won't regret it!

I would say "Result". I'd be lost without mine.

larchielads · 08-01-2013 03:55AM

wanna get one of these dogmatics ive got a 1 yr old black lab who pulls like a horse. kinda confused about what size to get was lookin at a 3L can anyone give advice on it.

will it be too big can i adjust it to make it smaller and vice versa?

any help would be appreciated guys
thanks

RubyGirl · 08-01-2013 11:13AM

larchielads wrote: »

wanna get one of these dogmatics ive got a 1 yr old black lab who pulls like a horse. kinda confused about what size to get was lookin at a 3L can anyone give advice on it.

will it be too big can i adjust it to make it smaller and vice versa?

any help would be appreciated guys
thanks

I would go with the 3, I use it on my retriever and it also fits my bigger yellow lab aswell.

larchielads · 08-01-2013 03:41PM

thank you ruby girl

nemo32 · 08-01-2013 03:54PM

Hi all,

We have tried the canny collar with no success, do you think the dogmatic would be a goer if he couldn't get used to the canny?

tk123 · 02-02-2013 08:26PM

Is the dog still able to sniff and mooch etc with these on? I may have to travel for work and will leave my dog (retriever) with my mum but she's afraid he might be too strong for her on walks. He doesn't pull on walks 99% of the time because I've done a lot of training with him but she's still afraid of that 1%. Being honest I see dogs with head collars on all the time and they either look absolutely miserable/stressed at having it on or they're like little robots being hurried along. My dog is a retriever so likes a good sniff which is fine with me.

Whispered · 02-02-2013 08:32PM

tk123 wrote: »

Is the dog still able to sniff and mooch etc with these on? I may have to travel for work and will leave my dog (retriever) with my mum but she's afraid he might be too strong for her on walks. He doesn't pull on walks 99% of the time because I've done a lot of training with him but she's still afraid of that 1%. Being honest I see dogs with head collars on all the time and they either look absolutely miserable/stressed at having it on or they're like little robots being hurried along. My dog is a retriever so likes a good sniff which is fine with me.

TK I have one in size 5 (dogmatic I think) which I don't use if you want to borrow it. No point in buying one if it's just for when you're leaving him with your mum.

Personally I don't like them at all, for the reasons you mention and because I have heard of dogs sustaining neck injuries from them. Front connection much better in my experience.

tk123 · 02-02-2013 08:58PM

Whispered wrote: »

TK I have one in size 5 (dogmatic I think) which I don't use if you want to borrow it. No point in buying one if it's just for when you're leaving him with your mum.

Personally I don't like them at all, for the reasons you mention and because I have heard of dogs sustaining neck injuries from them. Front connection much better in my experience.

We use a front connection xtradog harness and I find he walks brilliantly on it. TBH I think she just needs to build some confidence and take him for some short walks!! I might just get longer ttouch lead (double ended) that'll make it more comfortable to attach to the front and back so she has more control if she needs it. We can use it in our groundwork anyways so won't go to waste!

Knine · 02-02-2013 09:03PM

Whispered wrote: »

TK I have one in size 5 (dogmatic I think) which I don't use if you want to borrow it. No point in buying one if it's just for when you're leaving him with your mum.

Personally I don't like them at all, for the reasons you mention and because I have heard of dogs sustaining neck injuries from them. Front connection much better in my experience.

I have size 5 too and they are for a much bigger dog then a retriever and a correct fit is needed.

I know lots and lots of people using the dogmatic and have never heard of any injuries?

I much prefer the dogmatic for powerful dog breeds then front connections.

bluecherry74 · 02-02-2013 09:07PM

I know what you mean about some dogs looking miserable.

I give Henry plenty of length on the lead and he can sniff away and seems happy out. Like Whispered, I'm not crazy about using it but its the only thing that's worked for the little monster. If you do decide to get one I'd recommend the Dogmatic. The Haltis look a lot more uncomfortable and seem to ride up over the eyes of any dog I've seen with one.

Whispered · 02-02-2013 09:15PM

Knine wrote: »

I have size 5 too and they are for a much bigger dog then a retriever and a correct fit is needed.

I know lots and lots of people using the dogmatic and have never heard of any injuries?

I much prefer the dogmatic for powerful dog breeds then front connections.

Yeah I've never used that one so not sure on the sizing. I used to use a halti, and it worked, but it rode up under the dogs eyes and irritated him so I moved to the harness.

I personally know 2 people whose dogs injured themselves by trying to lunge on the collar and have met another through work who says that neck stiffness developed over time, not a sudden injury. This may be down to using them incorrectly (as in there shouldn't be enough pressure on them to cause stiffness) but I still wouldn't use one again.

I regularly use front connection harnesses to walk all size dogs from Mastiffs and Dobes to toy dogs and personally find them better. Obviously they work for a lot of people, I'm not denying that at all. I just prefer the harness myself.

boomerang · 03-02-2013 06:10PM

I've tried the Halti and the Canny Collar in the past but didn't like either of them. Haven't tried the Dogmatic as the heavy leather version available at the time was going to be more aversive. I rarely meet a dog that genuinely doesn't mind wearing one of these. And I hate the way they get misused, such as people keeping the dog on such a short lead his head is cocked, or other people using the Halti or Dogmatic to give their dog sharp corrections when they're annoyed with them. And then there's the common problem of the nose band running up under the eyes.

I much prefer to use a front-connection harness. They are much for comfortable for the dog, much more readily accepted and very effective.

I don't think the head collars give you much control on their own, and it is fiddly to have a line attached from the head collar as well as your regular lead attached to the dog's collar or harness. My reactive dog wrenched her way out of a Halti and managed to tear the half-tear the nose band in the process. I'm glad she didn't injure her neck.

Knine · 03-02-2013 06:38PM

If you had tried the Dogmatic you would realise that it does not ride up into the dogs eyes. You also have full control of the dog. I have used them on lots of dogs and none of them minded wearing them. It also meant I could walk several large male dogs at once.
There was no fear of the dog escaping. You simply can't compare a cheap nylon halti to the more comfortable Dogmatic.
You would not need to yank a dog and unfortunately any person who thinks this is acceptable will yank or pull the dog around no matter what the dog is wearing.

boomerang · 03-02-2013 11:05PM

Each to their own Knine, but I have two friends that use nylon Dogmatics on their dogs, and neither dog likes wearing it and paws at it at every chance. If a dog has that level of resistance to a light head collar, they're going to find the heavier, leather version more unpleasant still.

It's grand for a breed such as a German Shepherd with a nicely defined stop, but with other types of dog the nose band does ride up under the eyes.

I have seen people trying to control bucking, rambunctious big dogs on a head collar and it just doesn't give enough control when a dog is excited or over-wraught.

I know you do not need to yank the dog. That was not my point.

We can agree to disagree, you know.

Knine · 03-02-2013 11:14PM

Well I walked some large working gundog breeds on them and I can assure you there was no bucking or jumping. These were extremely fit entire males. You seen breeds bucking and jumping but they were most likely not wearing the Dogmatic.

For what its worth I gave away the front connection harness as it was useless and rubbed the dogs skin.

If you get the correct size it does not ride up on the dogs face even those with short muzzles.

With all due respect the nylon on a halti is cheap and nasty compared to the softer material on the Dogmatic. Its like everything in life you get what you pay for.

Of course people can disagree but you only have to look around at the show/working dog scene and you won't find anybody walking around with a front connection harness thats for sure. It will be the same when I'm over in Crufts.

boomerang · 03-02-2013 11:35PM

That's because the front connection harness concept is relatively new and they are being imported from the US. Also, I wouldn't be reading much into the fact that they are not used much in showing/working trials circles. Same with head collars. Those dogs are generally well trained and don't require a gizmo to walk on a loose lead. And that is the ultimate solution to pulling on the lead.

Look, I'm a student vet nurse, I've taken a lot of dog training classes, been around a lot of dogs through working in dog rescue (and been to Crufts oodles of times) and you just cannot make a blanket statement that these gizmos never ride up under a dog's eyes, regardless of breed/head morphology. They sometimes do.

Boisterous dogs will buck, jump on pull, regardless whether they are wearing a head collar or not. For example, when they see a dog they know and like, when they see a cat they want to chase, etc. When they are wearing a head collar and acting up, it's a mess.

Can we not just agree to disagree? It's ridiculous to suggest that a product works for all dogs, 100% of the time. That's why I take your point that the front-connection harness chafed your dog, although that hasn't been the case with any of the dogs I've seen being walked with one, including Dobermanns, Bull Terriers, Labradors, Papillons, and Japanese Spitz.

Bottom line here is that I have seen head collars NOT to work well, they have drawbacks and they don't suit every dog. I don't like them. And whether I invest in a Dogmatic or not, they don't suit my dog, whatever you might say.

Dogmatic vs. Canny Collar vs. Halti

Comments