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Feb 9th Protest - will you be joining?

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Comments

  • #122
    Doc Ruby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    mango salsa wrote: »
    But if you have never been to any protest - how do you actually know what happens? - I've been at many that have included shinners but they haven't hijacked it, just been part of it, I've been at lots of other protests where shinners didn't attend
    I went to a protest, parents against profit or some such, escorting a young wan.

    I noticed lots of things. Like the open hostility in the faces of people in the crowds we passed in the street. Like the ludicrous war dance the socialist worker's party did outside the Dáil. Like the completely insane speech given afterwards by some bigwig talking about the bourgeoise as if it were still 1871.

    And I noticed a lot more than that, but I'll tell you I wouldn't be seen at another such march. Shower of clowns, but the lads in FF and FG are very glad for them, they're the best way to keep the general public from marching ever invented.


  • #123
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    Link to cartoon to explain my opinion:

    Protest+agains+war+environmental+issues+losing+money.jpg

    also, when I hear someone say "sheeple", I want to headbutt them like a ram with a pointy-horned head.


  • #124
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    mango salsa wrote: »
    But if you have never been to any protest - how do you actually know what happens? - I've been at many that have included shinners but they haven't hijacked it, just been part of it, I've been at lots of other protests where shinners didn't attend

    What was the overall result of them protests?


  • #125
    Stained Class
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭Stained Class


    mango salsa wrote: »
    But if you have never been to any protest - how do you actually know what happens? - I've been at many that have included shinners but they haven't hijacked it, just been part of it, I've been at lots of other protests where shinners didn't attend

    This will be a big one though.

    Loadsa Skang gonna crawl outa the woodwork.

    Mark my words.

    Also, I went on protest marches in the '80s, when things were really bad.


  • #126
    stringofmisery
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭stringofmisery


    yes, i will be going to the protest, for the following reasons;

    the images of the protest will be broadcast around europe/the world.........a big turn out will say....'the irish are not sitting down and taking this......we are not happy.....**** this!!!!!'

    there is an alternative to the prospect of another 15 years of austerity........adjustments to the terms of the bailout, could allow for some growth in the economy............and, seeing as talks are upcoming on this issue, and we are currently centre of europe with the presidnecy and all, i think it is the perfect opportunity to stand up and shout, that we are not happy, and maybe, encourage those at the helm to fight harder for us....(if not for the good of the country, then maybe for the votes)it gives people the opportunity to shout very loud.'**** THIS!!!!!!!!'


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  • #127
    The HorsesMouth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 517 ✭✭✭The HorsesMouth


    Zebra3 wrote: »

    How is it?

    TDs and their hanger-on brigade have no problem annoying people in their homes when they see fit.

    What's good for the goose...


    FFS you're taking about backbenchers who realistically have no real say in gov policy. Would you like someone protesting outside your house because your boss dictates unpopular decisions?

    If you only knew how much work and hours most TDs put in you would be surprised. It isn't the people in the system that's the problem,its the system.

    If you want to protest at them go to their constituency offices, or better still contact your local TD and see what they can do for whatever problem you have. I guarantee they'll at least try and help. Roaring slogans and abuse will get you no where.


  • #128
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    The HorsesMouth wrote: »
    FFS you're taking about backbenchers who realistically have no real say in gov policy. Would you like someone protesting outside your house because your boss dictates unpopular decisions?

    Would you go to work for a company who's purpose it is to piss people off? Would you then be surprised that lots of people dislike you?


  • #129
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Besides the lazy "it's not going to change anything" argument (which in its own way is ironically self-perpetuating, because if everyone held that attitude nothing would change), what actual substantive arguments do people have against protesting?

    Seeing as there are available alternatives at an EU level to our current situation (which provide actual jobs and boost our economy/infrastructure, leading towards recovery), which are far less destructive than austerity, then arguing against protest and in favour of the status-quo, is a pretty self-defeating gesture.


    I can understand disparagement towards SF/Eirgi types, people who try to partially hijack protests for their own agenda and such, but the disdain towards people who actually care enough about the countries current situation, to actually go out and spend their time protesting it, seems to be lacking any real reason or argument behind it.

    For those arguing that you would be supporting groups you disagree with, like SF/Eirgi/Unions etc:
    By actively discouraging/disparaging any protesting, you are effectively supporting the status-quo by saying people shouldn't voice their disagreement through protests. You don't have to protest if you don't want, but you don't need to 'pick a side' (align with Eirgi/Unions/etc.) to go out and protest either.

    It makes me wonder what the reasons are for the disparagement really, as it seems people want to actively discourage any protesting, and without any coherent argument as to why.
    bluewolf wrote: »
    The campaign is being run by "jobs not debt", so it seems to be a general airing of miseries. No, I don't believe in socialism and that includes socialising private debts. If a bank was collapsing, then it should have been let collapse and let that be the end of it. They rise, they fall, they rise again.
    But now? Well, I don't see people volunteering for further cuts to handle the non-bank related deficits that already exist
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82946905&postcount=83
    Yes and you're arguing for more cuts, which automatically means less money making it into the private economy, and less income from tax as well, causing a bigger deficit, require more cuts, and on and on in a repeat of that cycle.

    The wider argument as well, that everyone currently unemployed, should become an entrepreneur trying to start their own business, is inherently unrealistic as well, considering the inadequacy of consumer demand. If it were that simple, people would have done it already, and big companies eager to break into new markets especially, would have already taken advantage.


    For the recurring argument others make, that people are just lazy dole scroungers, take the fact that a year ago, there were only enough jobs for 1 out of 26 people:
    http://notesonthefront.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8342f650553ef016300281718970d-pi

    Not even enough to solve 4% of our unemployment problem.


  • #130
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    squod wrote: »
    Would you go to work for a company who's purpose it is to piss people off? Would you then be surprised that lots of people dislike you?
    You really think it's the purpose of politicians to piss people off?
    One of the major reasons we're in this mess is because they'd do anything not to piss people off.


  • #131
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    What was the overall result of them protests?

    Some were succesful - some were not

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #132
    The HorsesMouth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 517 ✭✭✭The HorsesMouth


    squod wrote: »

    Would you go to work for a company who's purpose it is to p[COLOR="Black"]i[/COLOR]ss people off? Would you then be surprised that lots of people dislike you?[/Quote


    Disliking you..no problem. It's like people who work for clamping companies. But protesting outside their own homes is a different level.


  • #133
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    dvpower wrote: »
    You really think it's the purpose of politicians to piss people off?

    You're trying to misrepresent me.
    dvpower wrote: »
    One of the major reasons we're in this mess is because they'd do anything not to piss people off.

    Huh? That's again a complete misrepresentation of the truth. They're trying not to piss off a small minority of people, while actively ignoring the needs of the majority.


  • #134
    Doc Ruby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    For those arguing that you would be supporting groups you disagree with, like SF/Eirgi/Unions etc:
    By actively discouraging/disparaging any protesting, you are effectively supporting the status-quo by saying people shouldn't voice their disagreement through protests.
    Here's what yourself and the Untied Alliance aren't getting. The status quo, dire as it is, is still preferable to the North Korea-like situation those yahoos would leave us in.

    No amount of calling people sheep is going to make them sign up for that.

    Ireland is not your personal army.


  • #135
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    The HorsesMouth wrote: »
    But protesting outside their own homes is a different level.

    They started it. Putting peoples lives, careers and homes under threat. That makes it personal.


  • #136
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    Besides the lazy "it's not going to change anything" argument (which in its own way is ironically self-perpetuating, because if everyone held that attitude nothing would change), what actual substantive arguments do people have against protesting?

    ...

    It makes me wonder what the reasons are for the disparagement really, as it seems people want to actively discourage any protesting, and without any coherent argument as to why.

    If I heard a constructive, feasible solution to the debt crisis, I would get behind it. The onus is really on the protest to make a coherent argument - then the public can join, or not, depending on their agreement with the message.

    I have been on protests, but only those with a clear message about an issue, e.g. the X Case, U.S. troops in Shannon, but I never argued with people to join me. It's a sorry day when we're arguing about going on the protest because the protest doesn't have a valid argument of its own.


  • #137
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    squod wrote: »
    They started it. Putting peoples lives, careers and homes under threat. That makes it personal.
    So you want to intimidate their families in revenge? Because that's what protesting at their private homes is really all about.


  • #138
    The HorsesMouth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 517 ✭✭✭The HorsesMouth


    squod wrote: »

    They started it. Putting peoples lives, careers and homes under threat. That makes it personal.

    Yeah they started it....my local TD went into each bank and told them to line their pockets and screw ordinary people with huge mortgages. What exactly do you think they should do? And I'm talking about backbenchers here...not ministers.

    I promise you, there are some TDs who are trying their best and working up to 80 hour weeks trying to help people in their constituencies.


  • #139
    Pete M.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Pete M.


    starlings wrote: »
    It's a sorry day when we're arguing about going on the protest because the protest doesn't have a valid argument of its own.


    But it does!

    Drop the Debt!! It's not ours to pay.

    Every day until we stop paying it will be a sad day as far as I'm concerned.


  • #140
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    Pete M. wrote: »
    But it does!

    Drop the Debt!! It's not ours to pay.

    Every day until we stop paying it will be a sad day as far as I'm concerned.

    Drop the debt where, and to whom?

    I like your manifesto
    put it to the test-o.


  • #141
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    Nothing like a bit of the bully-boy brigade.

    Relating to the new family home tax- If we suspect you have undervalued your home for the family home tax, we will send out a revenue inspecter to inspect your privately owned/privately maintained home, if you refuse to let the revenue man inside your home we will threaten you with a penality, when the government treat ordinary working people with such utter complete contempt they shouldn,t complain when people start to push back against them.


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  • #142
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    starlings wrote: »
    If I heard a constructive, feasible solution to the debt crisis, I would get behind it.

    If you wanted to, you'd find those solutions. If you were a well paid government leader, people would expect you to find those solutions.


  • #143
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    dvpower wrote: »
    So you want to intimidate their families in revenge? Because that's what protesting at their private homes is really all about.

    Peoples families are being intimidated. Their' homes and families are being threatened.


  • #144
    rolliepoley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,871 ✭✭✭rolliepoley


    Cold jelly and custard.


  • #145
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    The HorsesMouth wrote: »
    Yeah they started it....my local TD went into each bank and told them to line their pockets and screw ordinary people with huge mortgages. What exactly do you think they should do? And I'm talking about backbenchers here...not ministers.

    I promise you, there are some TDs who are trying their best and working up to 80 hour weeks trying to help people in their constituencies.

    Back to this same circle jerk. Banks didn't fail because mortgages weren't being paid. The banks failed, the economy collapsed and then people had difficulty repaying mortgages.

    Ireland was a source of cheap easy credit for everyone, not just the indigenous population.


  • #146
    stringofmisery
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭stringofmisery


    starlings wrote: »
    Drop the debt where, and to whom?

    I like your manifesto
    put it to the test-o.

    Drop the debt to where and whom?......the ECB
    simple as.
    the money is 'burnt'.....it doesnt go anywhere,it's not like the ECB are waiting, going'eh we need that cash'.....the cash does not exist after we've paid it in savings!GRRR!!!!it's a ****ing punishment of 15 years of austerity.


  • #147
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    squod wrote: »
    Peoples families are being intimidated. Their' homes and families are being threatened.
    Yeah. I think we get it - you think politicians are intimidating people's families so you think its ok to target theirs.


  • #148
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    dvpower wrote: »
    Yeah. I think we get it - you think politicians are intimidating people's families so you think its ok to target theirs.

    Target? How do you mean target?


  • #149
    Pete M.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Pete M.


    starlings wrote: »
    Drop the debt where, and to whom?

    I like your manifesto
    put it to the test-o.

    Oi! I'm a member of the anarchist party! :P

    And I don't know to whom we have to drop the debt to, f@celess fcuks.

    (Can you say that?)

    Anyway, it's got nothing to do with me, or you probably, so why should I know.


  • #150
    Pete M.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Pete M.


    squod wrote: »
    Target? How do you mean target?

    Red dot?


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  • #151
    Stained Class
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭Stained Class


    If you lie down with dogs, you'll get up with fleas.

    Gwan down to march down with the Shinners & all the assorted Tramps this country can throw up & support with hardworking taxpayers money.

    Go Cattle. Go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Whist whist, giddiup now.,.


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