Graphic new warnings for cigarette packages

smash · 01-02-2013 11:33AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Funny enough obesity does spread like a virus to others, it's a bit of a meme.

Yet, the majority of the health budget is spent on obesity related diseases.

kneemos · 01-02-2013 11:35AM

Smokers of Ireland unite and fight the oppressor(if you have the energy)

01-02-2013 11:36AM

smash wrote: »

Yet, the majority of the health budget is spent on obesity related diseases.

Yup, apparently it's an inalienable right to get fat as **** and do it to one's kids as well.

conorhal · 01-02-2013 11:41AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Have you forgotten the laws regarding abuse of alcohol? Just look at the idiot down in Kerry who wanted the law changed so his customers could drive home. They were claiming the same level of harassment.

Look at the woman in court recently who was denied the right to be euthanised, she could claim harassment for that too.

Plenty of different sections of society could claim harassment and unfair treatment- gay marriage campaigners, abortion campaigners, the list goes on.

And you really think people who smoke are being harassed? Complete nonsense IMO. Tell the truth- will you even notice these pictures in a months time? Because I won't.

EDIT: Forgot to add there that I made plenty of classic clangers in my time, but I never expected sympathy for my stupidity, nor would I ever sympathise with anyone who with the full facts at hand would continue to engage in stupid behaviour.

Those are some wierd examples, the Healey Rae's couldn't be less relevent to this or any debate.
As for the 'right to die' lady. A lot of people do consider that the government was harrasing her.
I also remember abortion campaigners hitting the roof when some state wanted to require women to watch an untrasound of their foetus before continuing with an abortion.

As for the question of whether or not I consider it harrasment. I do.

You may never have expected sympathy for your own stupid actions, well I'm not asking for any sympathy either, I'm just asking people to leave me to my stupid actions and butt out.

Sinfonia · 01-02-2013 11:53AM

kneemos wrote: »

Smokers of Ireland unite and fight the oppressor(if you have the energy)

We're packed with energy, all that extra stimulant!

Czarcasm wrote: »

EDIT: Forgot to add there that I made plenty of classic clangers in my time, but I never expected sympathy for my stupidity, nor would I ever sympathise with anyone who with the full facts at hand would continue to engage in stupid behaviour.

That's the problematic attitude that smokers take issue with: non-smokers refer to smoking as 'stupid behaviour', but you can't counterbalance that opinion with anything else because you don't enjoy smoking.

Eating rich/fatty foods, having unprotected sex, skydiving, bungee jumping, using guns, trampoling, jaywalking; all of the above can be considered dangerous and stupid, but there are many people who would rather endanger themselves in various ways for the sake of the fun of it - it can be what makes life worth living. It's not necessarily stupid behaviour, when one can be fully educated on the matter, and still choose to undertake that behaviour for the sake of enjoyment.
If that activity is taking drugs, whether it be heroin, cocaine, THC, alcohol, caffeine or nicotine, it serves no purpose to characterise the behaviour as categorically stupid. Just because you gain no enjoyment from smoking doesn't mean others don't either.
Example scenario: I don't enjoy drinking or trampolining but I wouldn't consider another person stupid for partaking in them if they enjoy it, regardless of how dangerous those activities may be.

LoopyLolly88 · 01-02-2013 11:56AM

I had some with the gross pictures on them,there not nice but didnt stop me smoking i just covered the yucky bit!!

Sinfonia · 01-02-2013 11:58AM

On the upside, it could be a fun new collectible for kids, like football stickers..
Have, have, have, need, have, need, ooh! a shiny!

Czarcasm · 01-02-2013 12:01PM

conorhal wrote: »

Those are some wierd examples, the Healey Rae's couldn't be less relevent to this or any debate.
As for the 'right to die' lady. A lot of people do consider that the government was harrasing her.
I also remember abortion campaigners hitting the roof when some state wanted to require women to watch an untrasound of their foetus before continuing with an abortion.

As for the question of whether or not I consider it harrasment. I do.

You may never have expected sympathy for your own stupid actions, well I'm not asking for any sympathy either, I'm just asking people to leave me to my stupid actions and butt out.

Well you hit the nail on the head there yourself- these interest groups want everybody to butt out so they can be allowed to do what they like, when they like.

And the simple answer to that is yes, indeed you can, but just because you are aware of the possible consequences and accept them, does not mean the government should abdicate it's duty to educate people on the dangers of smoking, the dangers of drinking, the dangers of obesity, the dangers of drugs... The list goes on, and all these people will say the very same as you have just done- "government can butt out of my business!".

The difference being that while you and I might be able to afford our own health care, a lot of people in this country are not in such a position to do so, and even less will voluntarily do so if it wasn't covered under a group scheme by their employer.

So who then picks up the hospital tab for the lower income class person who says the government should stop harassing them and but out of their business? Who picks up the medical costs?

That's right- the very same government. So you or I can stand by our decisions alright, but if you're a person on a low income receiving state aid, then it is very much the governments business, and you don't have a right to get all indignant about it and tell them to butt out. That's not government bullying or oppression, that's just the facts.

Roger_007 · 01-02-2013 12:05PM

On the smoking v obesity debate, I know many smokers who are over 80 but I don't know any obese people who are.

Sinfonia · 01-02-2013 12:13PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

On the smoking v obesity debate, I know many smokers who are over 80 but I don't know any obese people who are.

In fairness, people 80+ are less likely to have ever been obese; it wouldn't have been ingrained as a way of life in their childhoods, during the '30s/'40s etc., or even later on.

We'll probably see a hell of a lot more obese elderly people come the mid to late 21st century.

conorhal · 01-02-2013 12:15PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Well you hit the nail on the head there yourself- these interest groups want everybody to butt out so they can be allowed to do what they like, when they like.

And the simple answer to that is yes, indeed you can, but just because you are aware of the possible consequences and accept them, does not mean the government should abdicate it's duty to educate people on the dangers of smoking, the dangers of drinking, the dangers of obesity, the dangers of drugs... The list goes on, and all these people will say the very same as you have just done- "government can butt out of my business!".

So who then picks up the hospital tab for the lower income class person who says the government should stop harassing them and but out of their business? Who picks up the medical costs?

That's right- the very same government. So you or I can stand by our decisions alright, but if you're a person on a low income receiving state aid, then it is very much the governments business, and you don't have a right to get all indignant about it and tell them to butt out. That's not government bullying or oppression, that's just the facts.

This is the infantalizing of society that is the product of the (well paid) quango-ocracy we live in, one run by the kind of busybody that won't be happy untill we're all walking down the street head to toe in kevlar with a CCTV camera on our heads and a flashing beacon that bleats 'careful now!' every few seconds. The madness has to end.

Maysa07 · 01-02-2013 12:17PM

I seen pictures like that in Thailand. Most smokers there have fancy cases for the cigs so they did not have to look at the pictures.

Czarcasm · 01-02-2013 12:26PM

Sinfonia wrote: »

We're packed with energy, all that extra stimulant!

That's the problematic attitude that smokers take issue with: non-smokers refer to smoking as 'stupid behaviour', but you can't counterbalance that opinion with anything else because you don't enjoy smoking.

Ehh, actually I do smoke, mentioned it in my first post in this thread. It's still stupid behaviour because I'm aware of the increased financial cost and the increased health risks and shortened life span.

Eating rich/fatty foods, having unprotected sex, skydiving, bungee jumping, using guns, trampoling, jaywalking; all of the above can be considered dangerous and stupid,

You've got that one right.

but there are many people who would rather endanger themselves in various was for the sake of the fun of it - it can be what makes life worth living. It's not necessarily stupid behaviour, when one can be fully educated on the matter, and still choose to undertake that behaviour for the sake of enjoyment.

You're right again, it's unnecessarily stupid behaviour. Trust me, I held your point of view for long enough before I copped the fcuk on and grew up!

If that activity is taking drugs, whether it be heroin, cocaine, THC, alcohol, caffeine or nicotine, it serves no purpose to characterise the behaviour as categorically stupid.

At this point I presume you're having a laugh, right? Because I've read and said a lot of stupid in my own time, but it's rare I come across such a monumentally stupid statement.

Just because you gain no enjoyment from smoking doesn't mean others don't either.

I think we've established by now that I do enjoy a smoke.

Example scenario: I don't enjoy drinking or trampolining but I wouldn't consider another person stupid for partaking in them if they enjoy it, regardless of how dangerous those activities may be.

YOU wouldn't, but a hell of a lot more people would indeed consider them stupid, especially the person who's picking up the medical bill for their jackass like antics.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 01-02-2013 12:41PM

I had a few cartons from Canada last year with the spooky pictures. As another poster mentioned, they're only shocking the first time you see them. After about a week they become as invisible as the black-on-white text warnings. So I already don't even care.
I don't smoke for the good of my health, so they're just beating a dead horse.

It seems a bit unimaginative for them to keep harping on about negatives of smoking. My quitting motivators are the benefits that come with quitting, why not throw a few of those on a pack? Maybe some photos of people who were able to quit saying some encouraging things?
Unless all they're really interested in is increasing our guilt so they can ease in another price increase. Lads, how do we push the price over €10 a box?

Irishcrx · 01-02-2013 01:02PM

Fair play to them , another notch on the idea's belt to make people believe they actually give a toss about people quitting smoking.

I know it's been said before , but if everyone in the country woke up tomorrow and was so appalled by the new images that we all gave up they'd have add's on the TV by Monday encouraging it's health benefits and mental stimulation , handing out packs on Grafton street to get people hooked , dressing the smokes in gold wrappers with pictures of Rihanna.

Reality is , they make a killing on the tax and need people to smoke. This is just all for show.

'You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time'

sdanseo · 01-02-2013 01:04PM

MarkMc wrote: »

yeah thanks for that, I'm perfectly aware of that. Some people enjoy having a pint, me, I prefer having a cigarette, thats my fcuking choice.

Some people choose to kill themselves, but society has the ability to stop them. Same with breaking the law.

Smoking should be illegal. End of. If for not other reason than the sheer amount of what - let's call a spade a spade here - can only be described as self-inflicted smoking-related illnesses, which burden our already pathetic excuse for a health system. What's lost on taxes will be made back in ten years or more when the rate of heart disease falls by half.

Sinfonia · 01-02-2013 01:07PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Ehh, actually I do smoke, mentioned it in my first post in this thread. It's still stupid behaviour because I'm aware of the increased financial cost and the increased health risks and shortened life span.

My apologies. Change 'you' to 'one'.

Czarcasm wrote:

You've got that one right.

You emboldened only the bit about food and sex; do you agree on skydiving, bungee jumping, using guns, trampoling and jaywalking? Just asking, honestly not sure.

Czarcasm wrote:

You're right again, it's unnecessarily stupid behaviour. Trust me, I held your point of view for long enough before I copped the fcuk on and grew up!

What? I specifically said it wasn't (necessarily) stupid, despite being unnecessary and dangerous.
Thanks for the implication at the end there too.

Czarcasm wrote:

At this point I presume you're having a laugh, right? Because I've read and said a lot of stupid in my own time, but it's rare I come across such a monumentally stupid statement.

Again, very diplomatic.
I'm not having a laugh. I'm pointing out the difference between an action being unnecessary and/or dangerous as opposed to stupid; further, to quell the idea that a person who undertakes the action is stupid.

Czarcasm wrote:

YOU wouldn't, but a hell of a lot more people would indeed consider them stupid, especially the person who's picking up the medical bill for their jackass like antics.

I see the benefits and drawbacks of each activity. If and when I smoke a cigarette, drink espresso, drink a bottle of wine, order a takeaway, etc. etc. I am fully aware of the harmful effects they may have upon my health, but I also enjoy them. I do those things for pleasure, and I neither apologise for it, nor accept any kind of labelling related to my level of intelligence.
The medical bill thing is a little unrelated to this, I wasn't railing against that.

Irishcrx · 01-02-2013 01:08PM

sdeire wrote: »

Some people choose to kill themselves, but society has the ability to stop them. Same with breaking the law.

Smoking should be illegal. End of. If for not other reason than the sheer amount of what - let's call a spade a spade here - can only be described as self-inflicted smoking-related illnesses, which burden our already pathetic excuse for a health system. What's lost on taxes will be made back in ten years or more when the rate of heart disease falls by half.

And what about the lads filling up Beaumount hospital on a Friday eveing with broken arms , wrists , ankles , bandaged heads all from drinking too much and making the staff's life a living hell.

Lets cal a spade a spade here - Drink is a much bigger problem in Ireland no matter which way we lavish it as part of society. It just no body gives a **** about it.

Anyone · 01-02-2013 01:08PM

sdeire wrote: »

Some people choose to kill themselves, but society has the ability to stop them. Same with breaking the law.

Smoking should be illegal. End of. If for not other reason than the sheer amount of what - let's call a spade a spade here - can only be described as self-inflicted smoking-related illnesses, which burden our already pathetic excuse for a health system. What's lost on taxes will be made back in ten years or more when the rate of heart disease falls by half.

Would you feel the same about obesity and all its related ilnness's? Its costing a bigger % of health budget and those who consume pay nothing in extra taxes.

1ZRed · 01-02-2013 01:09PM

I don't understand people saying smokers are always singled out, look at obesity, etc, etc.

Though I do agree smokers are singled out, I don't see it was why it should be one or the other. Measures to try to reduce smoking should always be brought in, even if it is graphic. Likewise for any other unhealthy lifestyle, like obesity.

You are all adults so may not be as swayed by these images, but young teenagers could be. And isn't that the time when the vast majority of smokers develop their taste for it anyway?
It could actually do some good in persuading them not to take up the habit regularly, so I see nothing wrong with it.

I agree that much more should be done in ways of tackling obesity with similar strength campaigns, as it's only right, but I see it as kind of hypocritical to point out the vast damage of obesity by smokers because they're feeling singled out.

They should all be tackled at the same level because they're big health issues, but that shouldn't mean toning down one side or the other because it doesn't seem fair either.

Sinfonia · 01-02-2013 01:13PM

1ZRed wrote: »

They should all be tackled at the same level because they're big health issues, but that shouldn't mean toning down one side or the other because it doesn't seem fair either.

I don't think any of the smokers on here were trying to say "Leave cigarettes alone and badmouth fatty foods", just make it equal. If cigarettes are to be labelled as poison, why should other dangerous substances be treated with kid gloves?
The problem is that smokers are often - vocally - admonished by non-smokers and heavily looked down upon, but alcoholics and fat people are rarely shown the same level of disgust.

Idbatterim · 01-02-2013 01:18PM

I think its a good thing, but as mentioned in the rte article, they should go the whole hog and have the entire box as one image and the brand only in tiny letters somewhere on the bottom of the box etc...

readyletsgo · 01-02-2013 01:20PM

These new pics on smoke boxes will not make a difference at all to a smoker (like myself), yeah we see the pic, think oh yeah, must give up, then never take any notice of the 13 pics ever again really. These images have been on boxes etc for the past 10 years across the world, when in spain you buy €30 worth of whatever you smoke and these SAME photos are on the boxes.

Was in Thailand in 2008 and these pics where on the boxes for christ sake. These will not make people give up, but might help kids not start, but I really doubt it.

Only way a smoker will quit is when they are ready in their own mind, not from a box telling you.

Someone above me said why dont they give tips and ideas on how to give up instead of saying what they do to you as everyone know what they do to you and no one ACTUALLY reads it. That would be the better idea tbh.

Madam_X · 01-02-2013 01:23PM

Saying it's bullying is just not wanting to face up to reality. I'm not being judgmental towards smokers (have smoked myself) but I can't see what the problem is here. It's thought that there is sufficient awareness of the health risks, but there isn't.

conorhal · 01-02-2013 01:25PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

I think its a good thing, but as mentioned in the rte article, they should go the whole hog and have the entire box as one image and the brand only in tiny letters somewhere on the bottom of the box etc...

There's no pic or branding on the flash silver cigarette case that I just bought so perhaps you'll have to go the whole hog and require me to wear some form of emblem on my clothing?

Sinfonia · 01-02-2013 01:26PM

readyletsgo wrote: »

Someone above me said why dont they give tips and ideas on how to give up instead of saying what they do to you as everyone know what they do to you and no one ACTUALLY reads it. That would be the better idea tbh.

Tbh, while that's a nice idea, I'd still probably prefer they just left me to do my own dealings with Japan Tobacco Inc. I'll pay them their 'due' tax, but I'm a grown man capable of reading, researching and making my own decisions.
And I'd rather the same kind of intelligence and critical thinking be fostered in the general populace too; the more an authority insists on your reliance upon it, the more you become used to relying on it.

01-02-2013 01:26PM

My brother has been an alcoholic and a smoker for maybe 20 years and all my parents wanted him to stop was the smoking until the last few years when it's become very apparent that the drink is what's left him with nothing.

Anyways, I'm a heavy smoker and think this is a stupid idea.. Most people don't give a fek about a tiny picture. On Thai cigarettes, I may aswell be looking at a dead cat cause I've no idea what the picture is off. They certainly never put me off having one.

As for the pricing, I think it's mad that anywhere I go, local people can just about afford to smoke.. No more, no less. Says what the governments want.. Tax.

Sinfonia · 01-02-2013 01:28PM

Madam_X wrote: »

It's thought that there is sufficient awareness of the health risks, but there isn't.

What makes you say that?

1ZRed · 01-02-2013 01:32PM

Sinfonia wrote: »

I don't think any of the smokers on here were trying to say "Leave cigarettes alone and badmouth fatty foods", just make it equal. If cigarettes are to be labelled as poison, why should other dangerous substances be treated with kid gloves?
The problem is that smokers are often - vocally - admonished by non-smokers and heavily looked down upon, but alcoholics and fat people are rarely shown the same level of disgust.

In fairness, high fat/sugar/salt foods can be enjoyed as part of a balanced diet and not have any ill effects while smoking has no benefit whatsoever and always causes ill effects. There's no good at all from them and they're more unhealthy than fatty foods if you are talking about dabbling in them and not full-on gorging yourself in either one.

That's why things seem unequal, because you could eat in McDonald's once a week combined with a normal, healthy lifestyle with many less health implications than if you smoked a packet every week with the same lifestyle. Same with alcohol.

Fatty foods still have a nutritional content and some alcohols such as red wine have health benefits, whereas smoking has no benefits at all surrounding it -purely negative health implications.

That's why they don't get treated as equally, even if doing an excess of all the 3 mentioned above proves unhealthy for you.

Calibos · 01-02-2013 01:35PM

They great lie that the government give a fcuk about people's health will truly be exposed when the proposed restrictions on ecigs comes in. We're so worried about the safety of a few molecules of inhaled food flavourins (the other compounds are used in medical inhalers and fog machines for decades) that we are not sure if these are as safe as a lungful of alpine mountain air. Thus you should go back to the legal alternative at €9.30 a pack with 4000 harmful chemicals and carcinogens.

Graphic new warnings for cigarette packages

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