Is it not a bit early for confirmations?

kylith · 31-01-2013 4:15pm #1

Apparently in some parts of the country confirmation season has already started. I was sure that they used to be later in the year, or are they trying to get as much in as close to Christmas as possible?

Anyway, I'm once more the asshole in my family because I'm not going to my niece's confirmation on Saturday. Apparently 'I'm terribly sorry, but I've put so much stuff off, what with it having been mum's birthday, and with accompanying mum on that trip, that I can't put off what I have to do for myself any longer. I've put a card in the post for the young wan. I hope ye have a lovely day, and I'll be down to see ye in a week or two.' qualifies me for the Selfish Cow of the Year award.

Should I just go for broke with 'I'm too busy to travel half the length of the fecking country, and put off looking after myself and my own home, to sit in a house full of Holy Joes and pretend that I'm happy that my niece is being further indoctrinated into an paedophile-hiding institution which believes that she is worth less than dirt, and if you keep on at me about it I will show up, and I'll spend the whole time telling all the kids that God isn't real, and that there's no heaven'?

Kidchameleon · 31-01-2013 4:40pm

OP just do it for your niece. What have your beliefs got to do with it?

Oh and if your going to "spend the whole time telling all the kids that God isn't real, and that there's no heaven", what evidence are you going to give to back up your claims? And what has heaven got to do with anything?

Dades · 31-01-2013 4:45pm

kylith, would your niece notice or care if you weren't there?

Or just the *adults*?

docmol · 31-01-2013 4:51pm

Send her a T shirt!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Atheist-T-Shirt-Thor-My-God-has-a-hammer-your-God-/190483411255

kylith · 31-01-2013 5:09pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

OP just do it for your niece. What have your beliefs got to do with it?

Oh and if your going to "spend the whole time telling all the kids that God isn't real, and that there's no heaven", what evidence are you going to give to back up your claims? And what has heaven got to do with anything?

Ah, don't mind the last paragraph, I'm just venting.

I honestly wouldn't refuse to go, I have been to all the christenings, communions, and confirmations so far, I'm even a godmother ("Ah, sure just do it, he's your brother, tradition, family, why don't you believe in god, blah blah...". It's just that because I've been away every weekend so far this year my house is a tip, the place is still full of crap from Christmas, and various other stuff I just can't put off any more. If I drove it wouldn't be a problem because I could get everything done in the morning then head down, but since I don't what would be a quick job in a car turns into a 90 minute saga on the fecking bus.

Dades wrote: »

kylith, would your niece notice or care if you weren't there?

Or just the *adults*?

I honestly don't think my niece would mind, especially since I'll be sending her a nice card with some nice money in it.

kylith · 31-01-2013 5:10pm

docmol wrote: »

Send her a T shirt!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Atheist-T-Shirt-Thor-My-God-has-a-hammer-your-God-/190483411255

I prefer:
Odin promised an end to Ice Giants
Jesus promised an end to evil people

I don't see any Ice Giants around, do you?

Calibos · 31-01-2013 6:51pm

If you go with option 3 can I come and watch!! Or at least can you set up a hidden camera and record it for us

BTW I don't mean the carrying out of the threat but the issuing of the threat to the people giving you grief about not going.

byhookorbycrook · 31-01-2013 6:54pm

Confirmations have indeed started, bishop has a lot of places to cover.

Wibbly Wobbly Wonder · 31-01-2013 9:24pm

kylith wrote: »

Should I just go for broke with 'I'm too busy to travel half the length of the fecking country, and put off looking after myself and my own home, to sit in a house full of Holy Joes and pretend that I'm happy that my niece is being further indoctrinated into an paedophile-hiding institution which believes that she is worth less than dirt, and if you keep on at me about it I will show up, and I'll spend the whole time telling all the kids that God isn't real, and that there's no heaven'?

This. Bout time people put their money where their mouths are.

feargale · 01-02-2013 1:53am

Will you adopt the same position re her wedding ?

docmol · 01-02-2013 2:43am

Will you adopt the same position re her wedding or civil partnership?

FYP

:rolleyes:

kylith · 01-02-2013 10:30am

feargale wrote: »

Will you adopt the same position re her wedding ?

You mean the thing that she'll be able to make an informed, adult decision about rather than the 'keeping up with the Jones'' thing that she's only doing for money?

I spoke to my parents last night, and apparently this is classed as a Really Frakking Big Deal. To the point where my dad was threatening to come get me. So I guess I'll be putting off the things I need to do so that I can go there instead.

This is what being an atheist gets you, apparently; the assumption that you're not going to an event because it's religious and you can't be arsed rather than, y'know, actually having a frigging life of your own to lead. I tell you what, every single other member of the family had better be there or I'm going to be very annoyed. I swear, sometimes I hear so much about doing things 'for the family' that it feels like I'm in the Mafia.

Wibbly Wobbly Wonder · 01-02-2013 11:50am

kylith wrote: »

You mean the thing that she'll be able to make an informed, adult decision about rather than the 'keeping up with the Jones'' thing that she's only doing for money?

I spoke to my parents last night, and apparently this is classed as a Really Frakking Big Deal. To the point where my dad was threatening to come get me. So I guess I'll be putting off the things I need to do so that I can go there instead.

This is what being an atheist gets you, apparently; the assumption that you're not going to an event because it's religious and you can't be arsed rather than, y'know, actually having a frigging life of your own to lead. I tell you what, every single other member of the family had better be there or I'm going to be very annoyed. I swear, sometimes I hear so much about doing things 'for the family' that it feels like I'm in the Mafia.

You can't be arsed going to a family event in some teenage style strop, or you have actual convictions , which is it ?

I think you should mean what you say and put your money where your mouth was, too many don't :

'I'm too busy to travel half the length of the fecking country, and put off looking after myself and my own home, to sit in a house full of Holy Joes and pretend that I'm happy that my niece is being further indoctrinated into an paedophile-hiding institution which believes that she is worth less than dirt, and if you keep on at me about it I will show up, and I'll spend the whole time telling all the kids that God isn't real, and that there's no heaven'?

Fortyniner · 01-02-2013 11:59am

Don't despair - hopefully your reaction will prompt others to question the lazy acceptance of the status quo.

The world will have moved on by the time your niece is old enough to make her own decisions. Then you'll be able to enthral the youngsters with tales of life in the old days..

kylith · 01-02-2013 12:03pm

Wibbly Wobbly Wonder wrote: »

You can't be arsed going to a family event in some teenage style strop, or you have actual convictions , which is it ?

I think you should mean what you say and put your money where your mouth was, too many don't :

I said that it seems to have been assumed that I can't be arsed, whereas the reality is that I have been putting off since New Year things I need to do for myself so that I can do things for my parents and siblings and now it has gotten to the stage where I can't put them off any more I am being lambasted for my 'selfishness'. My comments about telling the kids that there's no heaven I have already clarified as words written in the heat of frustration.

robindch · 01-02-2013 12:07pm

Wibbly Wobbly Wonder wrote: »

You can't be arsed going to a family event in some teenage style strop, or you have actual convictions, which is it?

Not the kindest, most thoughtful or most sympathetic response I've seen.

Chill out wibbly, or there'll be cards handed out for posts unbecoming.

Wibbly Wobbly Wonder · 01-02-2013 12:07pm

kylith wrote: »

I said that it seems to have been assumed that I can't be arsed, whereas the reality is that I have been putting off since New Year things I need to do for myself so that I can do things for my parents and siblings and now it has gotten to the stage where I can't put them off any more I am being lambasted for my 'selfishness'. My comments about telling the kids that there's no heaven I have already clarified as words written in the heat of frustration.

So now we find this has nothing really to do with standing up for your atheist convictions, its about not having the time to attend ? :rolleyes:

Wibbly Wobbly Wonder · 01-02-2013 12:09pm

robindch wrote: »

Not the kindest, most thoughtful or most sympathetic response I've seen.

Chill out wibbly, or there'll be cards handed out for posts unbecoming.

Grand, just seen you post. Atheists or Theists who are not willing to follow through practicing what they come on here preaching annoy me. I can't understand that hypocritical mentality.

robindch · 01-02-2013 12:24pm

Wibbly Wobbly Wonder wrote: »

Atheists or Theists who are not willing to follow through practicing what they come on here preaching annoy me.

Are you suggesting that kylith should value her beliefs about religion more than her family?

That's what the religious do and you'll find very few atheists going down the same bone-headed route.

Dades · 01-02-2013 12:26pm

Wibbly Wobbly Wonder wrote: »

Grand, just seen you post. Atheists or Theists who are not willing to follow through practicing what they come on here preaching annoy me. I can't understand that hypocritical mentality.

What are you talking about? The OP is someone musing/ranting on Boards looking for thoughts, not a lecture.

And why can't it be a bit of Box A (need some time to myself after a month of doing things for other people) and a bit of Box B (annoyed by indoctrination)? Life's dilemmas aren't always black and white.

krudler · 01-02-2013 1:16pm

Wibbly Wobbly Wonder wrote: »

Grand, just seen you post. Atheists or Theists who are not willing to follow through practicing what they come on here preaching annoy me. I can't understand that hypocritical mentality.

Thats the Catholic left in us acting out

krudler · 01-02-2013 1:16pm

feargale wrote: »

Will you adopt the same position re her wedding ?

Totally the same thing. Yup, totally.

kylith · 01-02-2013 1:27pm

Wibbly Wobbly Wonder wrote: »

So now we find this has nothing really to do with standing up for your atheist convictions, its about not having the time to attend ? :rolleyes:

Did you even read my first post where I said:

'I'm terribly sorry, but I've put so much stuff off, what with it having been mum's birthday, and with accompanying mum on that trip, that I can't put off what I have to do for myself any longer. I've put a card in the post for the young wan. I hope ye have a lovely day, and I'll be down to see ye in a week or two.'

Gbear · 01-02-2013 2:58pm

Considering how utterly trivial an event it is I'd tell your family to **** off in no uncertain terms. But then I am a bit of a contrarian.

From what you're describing they're blowing things completely out of proportion and I can only assume it's not because they actually give a **** whether you go to the confirmation or not but rather because they're pissed at you for being an atheist and are playing silly-buggers political manoeuvering ****ology that people do when they can't face actually coming out and saying what they really think.

But that's only a reading based on a tiny window into your life so I apologise if I'm wrong.:pac:

Edit: I do get quite animated about this sort of thing because family (in general, my whole family are atheists so it doesn't really apply to us) try to pull this sort of emotional blackmail bull**** all the time and it really gets my goat.

kylith · 01-02-2013 3:16pm

Gbear wrote: »

Considering how utterly trivial an event it is I'd tell your family to **** off in no uncertain terms. But then I am a bit of a contrarian.

From what you're describing they're blowing things completely out of proportion and I can only assume it's not because they actually give a **** whether you go to the confirmation or not but rather because they're pissed at you for being an atheist and are playing silly-buggers political manoeuvering ****ology that people do when they can't face actually coming out and saying what they really think.

But that's only a reading based on a tiny window into your life so I apologise if I'm wrong.:pac:

Edit: I do get quite animated about this sort of thing because family (in general, my whole family are atheists so it doesn't really apply to us) try to pull this sort of emotional blackmail bull**** all the time and it really gets my goat.

I think that my parents are blowing this so out of proportion because 4 of their 6 children are avowed atheists who refuse to baptise their children (well, 3 refuse, I haven't got any kids yet), so they've decided that the religious upbringing of the other two's kids is A Huge Deal. They can't force me to be religious, but they can surely make my life hell if I don't go along with the familial religious events.

I haven't even said that I don't see what the big deal is. Apparently it's the child's 'big day' and that's that. Jebus knows what they'll be like if she ever does something important.

Sarky · 01-02-2013 3:39pm

They'll give all the credit to some saint or other. :pac:

GRMA · 01-02-2013 3:47pm

Is this your goddaughters confirmation and the stuff you need to do is clean your house?

I imagine there is a reception type thing afterwards where the family all go out to a meal etc, you could skip the religious event which you have a problem with and just go to the afters?

A confirmation is a big deal to a child and is a major family event I would go unless something else really important needs to be done

Kidchameleon · 01-02-2013 3:50pm

kylith wrote: »

You mean the thing that she'll be able to make an informed, adult decision about rather than the 'keeping up with the Jones'' thing that she's only doing for money?

Did ya put money in the card you sent her? Just curious

krudler · 01-02-2013 3:53pm

GRMA wrote: »

Is this your goddaughters confirmation and the stuff you need to do is clean your house?

I imagine there is a reception type thing afterwards where the family all go out to a meal etc, you could skip the religious event which you have a problem with and just go to the afters?

A confirmation is a big deal to a child and is a major family event I would go unless something else really important needs to be done

Not for the reasons its meant to be most of the time though. One of my cousins was more concerned with what ipad she was getting than anything to do with the religious aspect.

GRMA · 01-02-2013 3:58pm

krudler wrote: »

Not for the reasons its meant to be most of the time though. One of my cousins was more concerned with what ipad she was getting than anything to do with the religious aspect.

Does it matter?

The fact is its still a big deal, kid is the centre of attention etc

So the OPS parents are right in saying that its the childs "big day"

Saying it shouldnt be wont change anything.

krudler · 01-02-2013 4:11pm

GRMA wrote: »

Does it matter?

The fact is its still a big deal, kid is the centre of attention etc

So the OPS parents are right in saying that its the childs "big day"

Saying it shouldnt be wont change anything.

Yes? I didnt give two sh1tes about my confirmation other than the fact I was getting some money for new video games. Same as nearly everyone I made it with, wear nice clothes and get cash for attending a mass, how bad.

feargale · 01-02-2013 9:41pm

docmol wrote: »

Will you adopt the same position re her wedding or civil partnership?
FYP
:rolleyes:

Oops! Did we both forget to add the words " in the event of such happening" ? Let me know if I put all the commas in the right place.

Turtwig · 01-02-2013 10:54pm

Op,

Unfortunately you're kind of f*cked! From the picture I've got of your parents in your original post plus my own prejudices, biases and experiences of parents in Ireland this is one of those sort of events that if you refuse to go it might be bitterly be held against you for a very long time.

My advice would be to stick those teeth into your lips, go along it's just one day and those other things you need to get done. Well, I'll put it this way, if a family member was in hospital you'd find a way to accomodate those other things. It's certainly not a convenient thing to have to say, because a hospital situation we'd all understand and this is merely your parents being somewhat stupid and stubborn.

Let's be honest, even if they do trot out the excuse, this isn't about your niece; this is all about your parents and their own vision of how they think things ought to be. You're not going to change their way of thinking and by not going you'll probably provide them with more stress, anxiety and embarrassment than you'd fathom and my fear would be that they might hold that against you, especially if they're making a huge deal of keeping the last two kids religious. It's incredibly silly, but unfortunately that's just the way it is sometimes.

feargale · 02-02-2013 1:14am

docmol wrote: »

FYP
:rolleyes:

And thank you, but my intention was to enquire solely re wedding. I didn't see the need to ask the same question re civil partnership. Of course, if you wish to ask that, feel free to do so. "Each to their own," as my granny used to say, and as the whole point of the OP appears to be. FY "FYP"

docmol · 02-02-2013 11:11pm

feargale wrote: »

And thank you, but my intention was to enquire solely re wedding. I didn't see the need to ask the same question re civil partnership. Of course, if you wish to ask that, feel free to do so. "Each to their own," as my granny used to say, and as the whole point of the OP appears to be. FY "FYP"

LOL

feargale · 02-02-2013 11:58pm

For further clarification can I ask OP the following:
1. God ( or whoever or nobody as the case may be,) forbid it happening anytime soon, but would you attend the religious funeral service of a close relative who was near and dear to you? The deceased would most likely be without choice in the matter, particularly re the timing of it.
2. If you were marrying in a registry office, would you invite your parents? Would they come?
3. Same questions re if they are RC and you married in a Protestant church, or vice versa.
4. Same questions re if you were married by a druid on a beach. I know someone who was.

Dades · 03-02-2013 12:26am

The OP already has a dilemma with the actual event in question, so why are you posing four hypothetical questions for them to deal with too?

If you've a point to make, just make it.

docmol · 03-02-2013 4:06am

I though long and hard before re posting in this thread but here's my 2c worth.
@OP. As a dyed in the wool atheist I would rather never go to any religious ceremony. I honestly think they are wrong on so many levels. Sometimes you just have to bite your tongue though. Funerals or weddings of close family and friends is the exception for me. I go and toe the line (at least as far as polite attendance) I believe these ceremonies are important. Not for religious reasons but for social reasons. It's important to mark a new life, or the end of one, and while I disagree with the format I can appreciate the sentiment.
It's up to you if you go to this event or not. If you don't go will your niece be upset? I sort of doubt it, esp if you send a card with cash in. The last confirmation I was at was my own, 30 years ago. My family are fine with this. If you do go you can at least console yourself by knowing you have been the "bigger" person, putting yourself out to keep the peace. You could even think of it as showing the "holy joes" a lesson in tolerance, something a lot (but NOT all) of them could sorely use! I bet they wouldn't understand the point though, even if you got it printed on a T shirt. Best of luck with whatever you decide.
@ feargale The FY at the end of your post makes my point for me, very eloquently. Thanks!

kylith · 03-02-2013 12:10pm

Well, I went anyway. I arrived, as I expected, just as all the other guests were putting their coats on and saying their goodbyes. The child herself I saw for about 3 minutes, and I had to go looking for her at that; she was watching videos with friends in her room.

I got word from OH this morning that his 'not feeling terrific' turned into full blown norovirus at about midnight so you can imagine how great I feel that I've made a three hour trip for someone who barely even knew I was there, and left someone who turned out to actually need me to their own devices.

feargale wrote: »

For further clarification can I ask OP the following:
1. God ( or whoever or nobody as the case may be,) forbid it happening anytime soon, but would you attend the religious funeral service of a close relative who was near and dear to you? The deceased would most likely be without choice in the matter, particularly re the timing of it.
2. If you were marrying in a registry office, would you invite your parents? Would they come?
3. Same questions re if they are RC and you married in a Protestant church, or vice versa.
4. Same questions re if you were married by a druid on a beach. I know someone who was.

In what way are those even slightly related to the subject at hand? Where have I ever said that I would refuse to go to a religious event? Haven't I, in fact, said exactly the opposite; that I go to every wedding, funeral, christening, communion, confirmation, and vow renewal that I am invited to? My sole objection this weekend is that I have been expected to put my own needs after someone else's, for no reason other than some 'coming of age' thing.

feargale · 03-02-2013 5:21pm

kylith wrote: »

Well, I went anyway.

That may make any further comment appear superfluous. Subject to what follows, and not knowing as much as you do/did about your personal/family situation, or to what extent you were subject to unreasonable expectations, and acknowledging that you and you alone had a right and were best qualified to decide, my gut reaction would have been that going was the better option. Always best when faced with such dilemmas to look down the road x years hence and ask yourself which course are you most likely to regret in the future.

kylith wrote: »

I got word from OH this morning that his 'not feeling terrific' turned into full blown norovirus at about midnight

That clearly puts a new complexion on the story, and would have put me in the "dont go" camp, just about everyone else too, I imagine. Wishing OH a speedy recovery.

feargale · 03-02-2013 5:42pm

[Quote=kylith;83027581In what way are those even slightly related to the subject at hand? Where have I ever said that I would refuse to go to a religious event? Haven't I, in fact, said exactly the opposite; that I go to every wedding, funeral, christening, communion, confirmation, and vow renewal that I am invited to?[/Quote]
Sorry, I overlooked post no. 5 in which you seem to row back from the last paragraph of OP. In response to the latter, ( which suggested a second objection,) I was about to make the point that religious and non-religious have to share this planet whether we like it or not, and we're best to distance ourselves as far as possible from both Inquisitorial Spain and Hoxha's Albania. I was also thinking of Douglas Hyde's funeral, ( you'll find a resume of the story in Wikipedia if you're not familiar with it,) when all our Cabinet ministers bar one made silly buggers of themselves by absenting themselves from the Protestant service lest, in the words of the poet, they might damn their immortal souls.

kylith · 04-02-2013 9:59am

feargale wrote: »

That may make any further comment appear superfluous. Subject to what follows, and not knowing as much as you do/did about your personal/family situation, or to what extent you were subject to unreasonable expectations, and acknowledging that you and you alone had a right and were best qualified to decide, my gut reaction would have been that going was the better option. Always best when faced with such dilemmas to look down the road x years hence and ask yourself which course are you most likely to regret in the future.

Well, that was it really; I considered which would cause me more peace in the long run, and boy can my mother do long-term lack of peace

feargale wrote: »

That clearly puts a new complexion on the story, and would have put me in the "dont go" camp, just about everyone else too, I imagine. Wishing OH a speedy recovery.

As it was he had been a bit under the weather for a couple of days and neither of us had any idea that he was going to get worse. Had he been ill on Saturday I would certainly wouldn't have left him.

feargale wrote: »

Sorry, I overlooked post no. 5 in which you seem to row back from the last paragraph of OP.

No worries. As I said the OP was, as I suspect many OPs are, written in the heat of the moment.

Is it not a bit early for confirmations?

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