Did We Throw Up Rubbish Buildings in the Boom?

JupiterKid · 31-01-2013 02:01AM #1

Following from the tragic accident in Longford yesterday where two people lost their lives when a 30 foot high wall in a DIY store collapsed on them, the well-known saga of the Priory Hall apartment complex in Dublin which remains vacated due to building and fire safety defects and the iron pyrite in house foundations scandal should we not be scrutinising much of what was thrown up in the Celtic Tiger boom years?

Anecdotal evidence indicates that corners were cut and that the quality of materials and workmanship that went into many new buildings was dubious. Of particular concern for Ireland is that the construction industry is "self-regulating" with respect to building regulations and standards, and that - unlike the UK - no widespread, compulsory independent evaluation and inspection of building work takes place.

Is this good enough? I think not.

How many more Priory Hall scandals will emerge in the coming years? Or worse, will more buildings of recent vintage experience structural failures and tragedies?

dttq · 31-01-2013 02:06AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Following from the tragic accident in Longford yesterday where two people lost their lives when a 30 foot high wall in a DIY store collapsed on them, the well-known saga of the Priory Hall apartment complex in Dublin which remains vacated due to building and fire safety defects and the iron pyrite in house foundations scandal should we not be scrutinising much of what was thrown up in the Celtic Tiger boom years?

Anecdotal evidence indicates that corners were cut and that the quality of materials and workmanship that went into many new buildings was dubious. Of particular concern for Ireland is that the construction industry is "self-regulating" with respect to building regulations and standards, and that - unlike the UK - no widespread, compulsory independent evaluation and inspection of building work takes place.

Is this good enough? I think not. How many more Priory Hall scandals will emerge in the coming years? Or worse, will more buildings of recent vintage experience structural failures and tragedies?

Yes we did. What I would like to know is which imbeciles granted permission for that yoke on Dame Street outside Dublin castle - pretty much destoyed that part of the street. It's infuriating seen that piece of muck also defacing a square previously enclosed on that side of the road by magnificent Georgian buildings.

nelly17 · 31-01-2013 02:06AM

Not to mention the apts in Dundrum

the great purveyor of mediocrity · 31-01-2013 02:06AM

As plenty of trades people I know used to say during the boom years...."patch/cover it up, by the time anyone notices, we'll be long gone".

paddy147 · 31-01-2013 02:06AM

Architects,engineers,fire safety officers and others seemed to have turned a blind eye to certain aspects.

Its not just bad builders and property developers that are to blame.

Lack of propper inspection,signing off and checking that plans and actual buildings are the same as the plans states.

They are only just finishing off the refurb work in Belmayne (opposite Priory Hall) over the pyrite problems that every apartment and townhouse up there had.

All the residents were moved out to other accomodation for 6 weeks,while the builder and the construction companies came back in and gutted every building and refurbed them.

paddy147 · 31-01-2013 02:08AM

The older houses of the 30s,40s,50s,60s and 70s were and are propper solid houses...you wont seem them cracking or crumbling too easily.

31-01-2013 02:11AM

Yes, definitely. The most annoying regulation they made was having those fecking electric fans come on when you turn on a light switch in a room that was either a bathroom or a room with no boundary walls. You might think that actually makes sense, but not when the fans were so poorly made that they all ended up breaking.

Radiators under the windows was another one.

Too many air vents that weren't sealed properly so air could flow freely inside the walls themselves.

Using the wrong nails (or using the right nails the wrong way) in walls so that the plaster that covers the head of the nail falls off from vibrations of people walking up the stairs or closing doors.

HTML5! · 31-01-2013 02:13AM

Yes.

I'd never buy anything built in the last 15 years. Pure garbage.

You only have to look at some of them. Tiny rooms in cardboard looking estates.

Pass.

paddy147 · 31-01-2013 02:14AM

Sacramento wrote: »

Yes, definitely. The most annoying regulation they made was having those fecking electric fans come on when you turn on a light switch in a room that was either a bathroom or a room with no boundary walls. You might think that actually makes sense, but not when the fans were so poorly made that they all ended up breaking.

Radiators under the windows was another one.

Too many air vents that weren't sealed properly so air could flow freely inside the walls themselves.

Using the wrong nails (or using the right nails the wrong way) in walls so that the plaster that covers the head of the nail falls off from vibrations of people walking up the stairs or closing doors.

Best place for them...with regards heating a room.

catallus · 31-01-2013 02:16AM

The saying at the time was : Shure a man in China wouldn't see it! Jocularity ensued. Very sad to see two people dead.

ejmaztec · 31-01-2013 02:17AM

Using proper foundations in the first house on a new estate, and once the local engineer had signed off on it, throw any old sh1t under the rest of the houses.

tin79 · 31-01-2013 02:24AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence indicates

Well that settles it so. Cant beat good old anecdotes to establish the facts.

P_1 · 31-01-2013 02:27AM

Without a shadow of a doubt.

I wonder how much the margins were increased by cutting back on the quality of the materials used

tin79 · 31-01-2013 02:28AM

HTML5! wrote: »

Yes.

I'd never buy anything built in the last 15 years. Pure garbage.

You only have to look at some of them. Tiny rooms in cardboard looking estates.

Pass.

I fully agree. Every single building constructed since 1998 is pure garbage. It must have taken you ages to get round to them all. :rolleyes:

guppy · 31-01-2013 02:31AM

Was there ever any real "inspection" of housing or commercial builds? Wasn't most of it self-certified? I am open to correction, but I'm not aware of any official body with responsibility for inspection of buildings.

And you'd think with all the money-spinning quangos created, that might have been top of the list (unless vested interests didn't want that to happen....... but no, that's just my cynicism I'm sure)

Doc Ruby · 31-01-2013 02:36AM

dttq wrote: »

I would like to know is which imbeciles granted permission for that yoke on Dame Street outside Dublin castle

That would be public servants.

In other news 'we' didn't throw up anything, cowboys did.

chasm · 31-01-2013 03:16AM

Gleann Riada in Longford is another one.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1009/340861-longford-gleann-riada/

".......However, he said there was clear evidence of the effect of carbon monoxide, methane and hydrosulfite in the area and the gases from the sewers were dangerous.

Dr Kelleher repeated his warning that residents should not light open fires in their sitting rooms.

In a statement, Longford County Council said it is constrained in what it can say due to legal proceedings undertaken by some of the residents.

However, it said all residents should ensure adequate ventilation in the house, do not light open fires, install carbon monoxide alarms in each house and maintain water traps in all toilets."

My Father worked on building sites in the UK in the 60s and 70s and he said there were constant inspections the whole way through the building process, and sites were often closed for a few days till things (often minor things) were put right, yet i have spoken to guys who worked on sites here in the past decade and a few have mentioned that half the time the guys doing inspections didn't even get out of their jeep!

Hootanany · 31-01-2013 03:18AM

Doc Ruby wrote: »

That would be public servants.

In other news 'we' didn't throw up anything, cowboys did.

Yep they granted Planning
And got there 30 pieces of silver.

Lapin · 31-01-2013 03:21AM

nelly17 wrote: »

Not to mention the apts in Dundrum

And lets not forget the roof of the National Aquatic Centre.

Where To · 31-01-2013 03:41AM

Knowing the lads who left school to go to Dublin labouring, and were contractors within a wet week, I'd be very wary of buying anything unless I knew for certain who was working on it from start to completion.

who_me · 31-01-2013 04:33AM

I think so. I think we've built a massive amount of 'disposable' architecture. Cheap and functional sure, but in 50 or so years when it starts to look a little tatty, it's more likely to be torn down while older buildings will retain their charm. I'm struggling to think of many buildings from the last 15 years or so that make me think "Yeah, that really adds to the city".

I used to frequent a popular Irish architecture forum, and it used to drive me nuts how many of them would rant on about the necessity of apartment-living (as opposed to everyone living in a detached house with a garden) to avoid urban sprawl. Sure, that makes sense; but then you have to build sustainable apartment buildings, including family-sized flats, adequate storage, outdoor/garden facilities, larger elevators for moving in furniture etc. Instead, planning permission is awarded to buildings with tiny apartments with no facilities, maximising the financial return but meaning everyone sees an apartment as a temporary home until they move to a bigger house in the suburbs, so the whole plan goes tits up.

I found it funny that one award winning apartment development in Cork city centre was slammed by on the forum by one of its own architects! He claimed the senior architect was more concerned with how it looked externally and had little regard for the practicality of the internal layout (and, IMO, the exterior of the building in question isn't up to much either!) And also in Cork, we had one proposal submitted to build in the middle of the Lee (I kid you not), and another on one of the bridges.

And that's just talking about the architecture, don't get me started on the build quality!

Boombastic · 31-01-2013 04:49AM

Did We? Did We? No We did not. I had no hand, act or part of building anything during the boom so don't be trying to pin the blame on me now.

:mad:

Ruudi_Mentari · 31-01-2013 04:51AM

Seems were still in the novice stages of this building with large, glass panels and almost exclusively nothing else. Frames that hold them.. just give me classic style. concrete.. set in stone

though comparing the very impressive Aviva to the somewhat more established "National Stadium" makes that rather irrelevant. Should see the new Walkinstown BOI branch old one was concrete, set back from the street and one teir but now this tall monstrosity with panes of fupping one-way mirror, right up on the path. Very insulting in this climate. very dispiriting.. very imposing. ruined that corner so they have

The Aussie · 31-01-2013 06:39AM

Boombastic wrote: »

Did We? Did We? No We did not. I had no hand, act or part of building anything during the boom so don't be trying to pin the blame on me now.

:mad:

I worked on the sites during the boom.

I pity the fools who brought those piles of SH!TE, now they are stuck with massive mortgages for poorly constructed garbage.

I also pity the young fellas who left school at 14 to learn how to construct crap, they learnt nothing but how to cut corners and bodge a job.

housetypeb · 31-01-2013 09:12AM

Spare a though for all the farmers sons who jumped on the trowel and were block layers within a day,building houses in estates and putting in poorly fitted insulation and wall ties the wrong way around so water would drip onto the inside leaf of a cavity wall.

the keen edge · 31-01-2013 09:26AM

The amount of generalizing bullsh1t is this thread must be some kind of new record for AH.

frag420 · 31-01-2013 09:41AM

Is this the Lego forum?

31-01-2013 09:45AM

The industry has proved that it cannot regulate itself.

As always there should be more officers enforcing the industry, like other countries, such as Germany for instance.

snubbleste · 31-01-2013 09:51AM

Anyone ever seen a poor planner?

Dravokivich · 31-01-2013 09:57AM

the keen edge wrote: »

The amount of generalizing bullsh1t is this thread must be some kind of new record for AH.

Well, if we've all seen the same things and none of us know each other, the generalising, isn't too far off.

mconigol · 31-01-2013 10:11AM

Boombastic wrote: »

Did We? Did We? No We did not. I had no hand, act or part of building anything during the boom so don't be trying to pin the blame on me now.

:mad:

You would say that though.

Judging by your overreaction I'd say it was all your fault

Did We Throw Up Rubbish Buildings in the Boom?

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