Widower sues airline for €5m over death of obese wife refused seat on three flights

Scruffles · 29-01-2013 05:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I read elsewhere but can't find it now that she wanted to go back for treatment in the states as she didn't trust the local doctors.

You wonder how a person can let themselves go so far.

she coud have had mental health problems amongst a host of possible circumstances which coud affect weight.
people assume there is a one size fits all lazy and greedy rule to being obese or overweight, without bothering to give a thought to the individual circumstances-woudnt be surprising at all if some of the worst abusers of fat people were fat or obese themselves and trying to project their self loathing onto individuals who do not deserve it.

its extremely difficult for obese people to exercise and lose weight,it affects their limbs and can cause severe pain in them if they exercise, their metabolism,their mental wellbeing, their sense of pride and care for themselves;many feel so helpless about their situation and the abuse they get that they use food as a coping strategy for themselves because it releases the 'feel good' neurochemicals in the brain.

although a different situation to this ladies,obesity and overweightedness is a huge problem [no pun intended there] in disability,especialy in learning [intelectual] disability where most of us are said to be either over or underweight due to our disability circumstances.

dont think woud be classed as obese but am overweight and under a learning disability dietician,its nothing to do with greed as have one healthy meal a day and ensure plus,but am in need of losing weight so had finaly joined our local special olympics club last year.

some people act like they have never had problems or made mistakes in their lives when they treat obese or overweight people like sht.
no one is perfect-remember that.

acidskiffle · 29-01-2013 06:30PM

CreepingDeath wrote: »

They're going to make a movie out of it... "Cakes on a plane".

Yeah and you're taking the lead role.

MyBrokenKnees · 29-01-2013 06:59PM

Why didn't they return on the airline that flew them to Europe in the first place? That airline didn't refuse her on the outward flight.

Corruptedmorals · 29-01-2013 07:25PM

MyBrokenKnees wrote: »

Why didn't they return on the airline that flew them to Europe in the first place? That airline didn't refuse her on the outward flight.

They did, Delta. They didn't have the lift that got her onto the outbound flight. I think they should have gone the air ambulance route, she is a safety risk with evacuation and even going to the bathroom would most likely be impossible, and that's a long flight.

CelticRambler · 29-01-2013 07:25PM

Is the Indo really short of news? This story is ancient ...

ordinary_girl · 29-01-2013 07:55PM

Yeah, I know it's AH and I probably should've expected it but I'm still surprised by the anti-obesity sentiment here and the jokes that are being made about the dead woman. If anything I feel sympathy for the woman, do you think anyone really wakes up the morning and thinks "yes, I want to be morbidly obese", or that when they're children all they can think is that when they grow up they want to be obese. I understand there is a definite responsibility that everyone has over their own bodies, but the vitriol being aimed towards this woman because she's obese is disgusting. Again, do you think anyone would really choose to be that obese?

And just as a side note, has anyone noticed that there's an awful lot of anger and disgust aimed towards obese people, but not so much towards very underweight people? Just an interesting parallel I've noticed, for some reason people view it as acceptable to berate people with one type of eating disorder but not so much people with other eating disorders.

squod · 29-01-2013 08:00PM

seamus wrote: »

By all accounts, all of the airlines involved were doing their utmost to find a resolution to the issue, but you can't leave a full plane on the tarmac indefinitely while you come up with a solution. It's just unfortunate that she died before a solution could be found.

Probably. Just calling it as I see it.

she was too fat to fly back to America.

She obviously made the trip before like.

seamus wrote: »

In reality she should have attended a hospital in Hungary when she knew that she wasn't getting out on schedule.

She was receiving treatment in America. The woman was living in Hungary.

Linoge · 29-01-2013 08:01PM

Scruffles wrote: »

she coud have had mental health problems amongst a host of possible circumstances which coud affect weight.
people assume there is a one size fits all lazy and greedy rule to being obese or overweight, without bothering to give a thought to the individual circumstances-woudnt be surprising at all if some of the worst abusers of fat people were fat or obese themselves and trying to project their self loathing onto individuals who do not deserve it.

its extremely difficult for obese people to exercise and lose weight,it affects their limbs and can cause severe pain in them if they exercise, their metabolism,their mental wellbeing, their sense of pride and care for themselves;many feel so helpless about their situation and the abuse they get that they use food as a coping strategy for themselves because it releases the 'feel good' neurochemicals in the brain.

although a different situation to this ladies,obesity and overweightedness is a huge problem [no pun intended there] in disability,especialy in learning [intelectual] disability where most of us are said to be either over or underweight due to our disability circumstances.

dont think woud be classed as obese but am overweight and under a learning disability dietician,its nothing to do with greed as have one healthy meal a day and ensure plus,but am in need of losing weight so had finaly joined our local special olympics club last year.

some people act like they have never had problems or made mistakes in their lives when they treat obese or overweight people like sht.
no one is perfect-remember that.

Just because you use food "as a coping mechanism" doesn't make you any better than someone who just likes the taste of food. You are self indulging while not caring what happens your body.

And it is actually quite easy for an obese person to lose a lot of weight just by dieting alone. The metabolism of overweight people is usually much higher than the avergage person. That woman could lose 10-15 stone in a year no problem.

Wibbs · 29-01-2013 08:12PM

Linoge wrote: »

Just because you use food "as a coping mechanism" doesn't make you any better than someone who just likes the taste of food. You are self indulging while not caring what happens your body.

Did you even read the post?

And it is actually quite easy for an obese person to lose a lot of weight just by dieting alone. The metabolism of overweight people is usually much higher than the avergage person. That woman could lose 10-15 stone in a year no problem.

Clearly you haven't a clue going by that statement. It is not easy for the obese to lose a lot of weight. Research has shown that when someone gets to a certain size the body resets what it believes its setpoint is and raises it. Think of it like an elastic band, you can stretch it to a point, but beyond that point it doesn't go back to the length it was. This is compounded by aging and long it took to pile on the pounds. The vast majority of obese people who reduce weight by your plan of "dieting alone" put it all back on and often extra fat. In the 80's a doctor did a trial with an obese man who basically didn't eat for a year, liquid nutrients and pills, basically living off his fat stores and guess what he didn't end up a skinny person at the end of it. Even those who get their stomach stapled get an initial and obvious drop in size, but when looked at 3 or 5 years down the line they've usually crept up in weight.

Maybe in future try reading up more on the subject, words like setpoint/obesity before jumping in with both feet? Just a thought.

1ZRed · 29-01-2013 08:24PM

193kg with an amputated leg!?!

Sweet fuk :eek:

I say she'd have eaten a lad of 75kg like me no bother!

Katunga · 29-01-2013 08:33PM

airlines should charge people over 130kg for two seats it is horrible sitting beside someone heavily overweight as you have no space to yourself and it costs the airline more on fuel the heavier you are.

E.S.T. · 29-01-2013 08:39PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe in future try reading up more on the subject, words like setpoint/obesity before jumping in with both feet? Just a thought.

You should try the same yourself

Obesity

Ireland - 23%

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/housesoftheoireachtas/libraryresearch/spotlights/spotObesity071111_150658.pdf

USA
White - 26.8%
Mexican - 34.1%
Black - 36.9%
Native American - 39.6%
Pacific Islander - 43.5%

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_10/sr10_252.pdf

UCDVet · 29-01-2013 08:39PM

Air travel is long, tiring, and comes with a slew of health risks. Doctor's routinely advise people not to travel by plane when their health is an issue.

Even if this lady weren't obese and her physical size wasn't an issue; the airline should still be able to refuse to sell her a ticket. There is a very real cost associated with having people get sick and/or die on your plane.

This woman must have been on death's door if she died because she couldn't get a ticket.

Had they let her on and she died in flight, her family would be suing because they shouldn't have let her on. And it would have ruined countless other people's flights/days and possibly caused emotional stress for those who don't want to see an obese lady die in front of them.

1ZRed · 29-01-2013 08:46PM

seamus wrote: »

193kg is two 95kg individuals (slightly overweight for a six-foot man). So not that much from a plane's point of view, and she was required to pay for two seats.

95kg is 'slightly overweight' for a 6ft man? That's 200 lbs and very overweight unless you're a bodybuilder!

I'm over 6ft and nowhere near that.

Nermal · 29-01-2013 08:46PM

ordinary_girl wrote: »

And just as a side note, has anyone noticed that there's an awful lot of anger and disgust aimed towards obese people, but not so much towards very underweight people?

When underweight people launch as many frivolous lawsuits as the fatties maybe I'll start hating them too.

Linoge · 29-01-2013 08:47PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Did you even read the post?

Clearly you haven't a clue going by that statement. It is not easy for the obese to lose a lot of weight. Research has shown that when someone gets to a certain size the body resets what it believes its setpoint is and raises it. Think of it like an elastic band, you can stretch it to a point, but beyond that point it doesn't go back to the length it was. This is compounded by aging and long it took to pile on the pounds. The vast majority of obese people who reduce weight by your plan of "dieting alone" put it all back on and often extra fat. In the 80's a doctor did a trial with an obese man who basically didn't eat for a year, liquid nutrients and pills, basically living off his fat stores and guess what he didn't end up a skinny person at the end of it. Even those who get their stomach stapled get an initial and obvious drop in size, but when looked at 3 or 5 years down the line they've usually crept up in weight.

Maybe in future try reading up more on the subject, words like setpoint/obesity before jumping in with both feet? Just a thought.

You are using phrases like "put it all back on" and "crept up in weight". So these people could and in fact did lose weight? Even a completely clueless person like myself knows that you don't become 193kg (and keep it on) by eating lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, watching portion sizes and doing some light excercise every day.

If what you're saying is true, and forgive me for not researching it completely, what is the point in any obese person ever trying to lose weight? Especially when ready made excuses are an excellent substitute for will power.

mackg · 29-01-2013 08:52PM

Katunga wrote: »

airlines should charge people over 130kg for two seats it is horrible sitting beside someone heavily overweight as you have no space to yourself and it costs the airline more on fuel the heavier you are.

I'm not sure about extra charge but if someone is 193kg then they should be informing the airline in advance to allow for the necessary arrangements. It seems like that was the case here, if not for the first flight then certainly for the second one from Prague. There was definitely a failure on the part of the airline, as long as it was made clear exactly what this woman's situation was, but trying to pin the blame on them for her death isn't on. It's standard now to have measures put in place to accommodate disabled passengers but this was a bizarre case. Even when they got her on the plane for the first flight they couldn't get her into her seat.

daisybelle2008 · 29-01-2013 09:02PM

I googled images of vilma soltesz and there is one of the husband managing to her into a fairly small car. In fact there seems to be an inordinate amount of pics chronicling their journey to the airport

Katunga · 29-01-2013 09:03PM

mackg wrote: »

I'm not sure about extra charge but if someone is 193kg then they should be informing the airline in advance to allow for the necessary arrangements. It seems like that was the case here, if not for the first flight then certainly for the second one from Prague. There was definitely a failure on the part of the airline, as long as it was made clear exactly what this woman's situation was, but trying to pin the blame on them for her death isn't on. It's standard now to have measures put in place to accommodate disabled passengers but this was a bizarre case. Even when they got her on the plane for the first flight they couldn't get her into her seat.

Aircraft are not designed for heavily overweight people as I said the more you weigh the more it cost the airline to transport you, so its only logic. have you ever spent 9 hours on a aircraft beside a person heavily over weight? if you did you would agree with me.

hatrickpatrick · 29-01-2013 09:04PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Did you even read the post?

Clearly you haven't a clue going by that statement. It is not easy for the obese to lose a lot of weight. Research has shown that when someone gets to a certain size the body resets what it believes its setpoint is and raises it. Think of it like an elastic band, you can stretch it to a point, but beyond that point it doesn't go back to the length it was. This is compounded by aging and long it took to pile on the pounds. The vast majority of obese people who reduce weight by your plan of "dieting alone" put it all back on and often extra fat. In the 80's a doctor did a trial with an obese man who basically didn't eat for a year, liquid nutrients and pills, basically living off his fat stores and guess what he didn't end up a skinny person at the end of it. Even those who get their stomach stapled get an initial and obvious drop in size, but when looked at 3 or 5 years down the line they've usually crept up in weight.

Maybe in future try reading up more on the subject, words like setpoint/obesity before jumping in with both feet? Just a thought.

Just like to point out that I was borderline obese in '07 (5th year), One summer of determination and I went from 220 to 140lbs, (at that stage I'd never lifted a weight in my life so it was, sadly, all pure fat weight

) - after this I was actually underweight and told to start lifting weights to pack on a bit of mass having lost the fat.
It can be done. And I didn't have to starve myself either, I had to start exercising at every possible opportunity and restricting my calorie intake (never going below 1300 though as that kills metabolism and actually stifles weight loss). Admittedly I concentrated on pretty much nothing else for the entire summer, but 6 years later it was still the most worthwhile project I have ever undertaken in my entire life and I'm thoroughly glad I made the decision to do it.

I'm probably a little over-fat at the moment (on a bulking phase in the gym now so I expect to get slightly puffy and then cut it down in a month or two when the phase ends, it's part of a bodybuilding cycle though and is expected) but I've never gone over the line since, in terms of actually being 'fat'. Not once since '07 have I looked in a mirror and despised what I saw in it. 'tis an epic, epic feeling

Not saying it's that easy for everyone, I'm just saying that the fact is for a lot of very overweight people like I used to be, it honestly is a question of bludgeoning, undeterrable willpower. I had motivation in the form of a girl I'd fallen madly in love with and wanted to have a shot with by the end of the summer when she was due to arrive back home

Anyway, as I said earlier in the thread - leaving that to one side, a human being died here and her husband is probably gripped by absolute grief over it. The people who are downright abusing both of them should think for a second how you'd feel if your girlfriend / wife / boyfriend / husband died, and maybe have just a little bit of compassion. We're talking about bereavement here, and whether or not the deceased was fat doesn't lessen the fact that everyone she's left behind has lost something they can never get back.
Dial back the "this is hilarious ha ha ha" for a second and think about that.

monkeypants · 29-01-2013 09:12PM

She died hungry or she died in Hungary?

TheUsual · 29-01-2013 09:16PM

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Anyway, wouldn't she be a safety concern for other passengers? In the event of an evacuation surely she would be in the way? I'm assuming she could only have been put into the the seats in the emergency exit rows. I would be concerned if I saw her blocking an exit/exit row.

I agree, that is a lot of weight with wheelchair and batteries or oxygen whatever she needs. Not to mention privacy for toilets and washing.
Would be pretty grim for her and the other passengers who pay for their long distance flight and have to see that. Kids etc. Kind of sad too.

Wibbs · 29-01-2013 09:33PM

E.S.T. wrote: »

You should try the same yourself

Obesity

Ireland - 23%

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/housesoftheoireachtas/libraryresearch/spotlights/spotObesity071111_150658.pdf

USA
White - 26.8%
Mexican - 34.1%
Black - 36.9%
Native American - 39.6%
Pacific Islander - 43.5%

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_10/sr10_252.pdf

Eh not a lot to do with my last post. In any case, so? Your previous contention seemed to be that this was selected for in those populations. Let's examine same. Numero uno, this is in the US where many factors are at play, cultural being only one part. Cheap shíte food, reliance on the car being bigger factors. Plus people overall are getting fatter. Those same groups(with the possible exception of some Pacific island populations/cultures, EG Tongans) were slimmer a generation ago, go another generation back and they were slimmer again and so on. The notion of "baby's got back" among some populations is as likely to be in response to the growing sizes, rather than driving it in the first place.

Linoge wrote: »

You are using phrases like "put it all back on" and "crept up in weight". So these people could and in fact did lose weight? Even a completely clueless person like myself knows that you don't become 193kg (and keep it on) by eating lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, watching portion sizes and doing some light excercise every day.

If what you're saying is true, and forgive me for not researching it completely, what is the point in any obese person ever trying to lose weight? Especially when ready made excuses are an excellent substitute for will power.

It's little to do with "excuses". It seems that if you reach a certain point of obesity, the body's setpoint shifts upwards and while you can certainly lose weight it's significantly more difficult to do so and significantly more difficult to maintain. Such that those who do succeed generally report feeling ravenous all the time. Imagine that for a moment. Starving all the time, because of your body releasing signals to eat. I weigh feck all and have remained the same weight over the last 20 years, but if and when I do become ravenous, I'd go through anyone standing between me and a steak.

If I had that trigger all the time, I'd be a blimp in a year. Put it another way there's a reason why diets fail all the time and dieters tend to put the weight back on, more than they lose. Now of course there are bad and good diets and physical exercise is a must to try and reset the mechanism, but like I say if someone gets to a certain point, coming back from that is very difficult. That's if they're in the full bloom of mental health too.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Just like to point out that I was borderline obese in '07 (5th year), One summer of determination and I went from 220 to 140lbs, (at that stage I'd never lifted a weight in my life so it was, sadly, all pure fat weight ) - after this I was actually underweight and told to start lifting weights to pack on a bit of mass having lost the fat.
It can be done. And I didn't have to starve myself either, I had to start exercising at every possible opportunity and restricting my calorie intake (never going below 1300 though as that kills metabolism and actually stifles weight loss). Admittedly I concentrated on pretty much nothing else for the entire summer, but 6 years later it was still the most worthwhile project I have ever undertaken in my entire life and I'm thoroughly glad I made the decision to do it.

Fair play HP!

However two things were in your favour. You'll notice I said in the post that age is a factor. You were still an adolescent. Your setpoint(and most everything else) is far more elastic at that age. Plus as you said you focussed on little else for a summer and continued that by the sounds of it since. Being a bodybuilder is harrrrd. You guys are really driven and really driven about diet. Never mind crazy amounts of lifting heavy stuff. Again serious kudos to you, but that kind of determination, near obsessive pursuit of a goal is rare enough. Hence so few do it and if it wasn't I'd look like Brad pitt in Fight Club

Put it another way, I'm the same (thin) weight I was at 17/18 and am in my 40's. I was athletic in my yoof, but that drive is long gone, plus I'm a lazy bastard. So how did I not get middle aged spread? Genes and because of those genes a very low appetite. Rather an appetite that sees food as fuel. If I do exert myself(god forbid) I eat more, if I sit around all day I eat less. No effort at all required from me. ctually about two years ago I put on over a stone. Didn't dig it and just cut back on the food. Again zero stress for me to do so, yet I've seen people I know nearly chewing their nails on diets. So for me to lecture a fat person about how to lose weight would be beyond daft. It would be like me lecturing you on how to build muscle and trust me you would have a major attack of the lulz if I tried

Anyway, as I said earlier in the thread - leaving that to one side, a human being died here and her husband is probably gripped by absolute grief over it. The people who are downright abusing both of them should think for a second how you'd feel if your girlfriend / wife / boyfriend / husband died, and maybe have just a little bit of compassion. We're talking about bereavement here, and whether or not the deceased was fat doesn't lessen the fact that everyone she's left behind has lost something they can never get back.
Dial back the "this is hilarious ha ha ha" for a second and think about that.

+10000

Lando Griffin · 29-01-2013 10:05PM

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

I googled images of vilma soltesz and there is one of the husband managing to her into a fairly small car. In fact there seems to be an inordinate amount of pics chronicling their journey to the airport

What are you suggesting, Mrs Fletcher?

daisybelle2008 · 29-01-2013 10:13PM

Lando Griffin wrote: »

What are you suggesting, Mrs Fletcher?

I don't know I wasn't expecting so many pictures of her getting to the flight. Maybe voyeuristic people taking snaps. I googled for pics after all.

Ruudi_Mentari · 30-01-2013 02:44AM

Refused 3 seats on a flight morelike

One for each thigh and one for her fat minge. Food is the only thing we need, to sustain our life but it seems some need more than most.

Galwayguy35 · 30-01-2013 03:12AM

ordinary_girl wrote: »

Yeah, I know it's AH and I probably should've expected it but I'm still surprised by the anti-obesity sentiment here and the jokes that are being made about the dead woman. If anything I feel sympathy for the woman, do you think anyone really wakes up the morning and thinks "yes, I want to be morbidly obese", or that when they're children all they can think is that when they grow up they want to be obese. I understand there is a definite responsibility that everyone has over their own bodies, but the vitriol being aimed towards this woman because she's obese is disgusting. Again, do you think anyone would really choose to be that obese?

And just as a side note, has anyone noticed that there's an awful lot of anger and disgust aimed towards obese people, but not so much towards very underweight people? Just an interesting parallel I've noticed, for some reason people view it as acceptable to berate people with one type of eating disorder but not so much people with other eating disorders.

Well yes, in a lot of cases people get fat because they are eating too much and doing no exercise, so they need to take responsibility for their own situation.

I was very fat as a kid and it was my own fault, eating all the wrong kinds of food so I did something about it, cut out all the junk food and started regular exercise.

Show Time · 30-01-2013 04:51AM

Could they not have sent this gargantium size of a lady by sea on either a cruise or fright ship?

faccid · 30-01-2013 05:00AM

Your mama is so fat she got refused on an airplane... No but seriously.. What if they let her on the plane and her seat belt didn't fit and then the plan hit some rough weather and she fell out her seat and crushed some people.

BusyMumof3 · 30-01-2013 06:03AM

Hi all.
I normally just read After Hours and never post. But I just want to contribute to this thread because I can relate to it in a few ways. When I was a teenager I became ill and started medication. I no longer had the energy for sports as the meds were strong. They also eventually damaged my thyroid and kidneys. I was unhappy with few friends, and my home life was problematic. So I started to comfort eat. And became fat. I didn't have a good self image, in fact I hated myself, so although I knew I should be eating fresh fruit and veg, exercising etc., I didnt really believe that I was worth it. And by my 20s, every time I did manage to drop weight, I always returned to a size 24, which confirms the body weight reset theory mentioned earlier in this thread. When I married, my husband never told me what to eat, nor would I expect him to. Anyway I developed diabetes two years ago and started taking glucophage to release the energy of the food I eat from my cells instead of storing it and getting fatter. Since then i have lost 6 stone by also keeping to a sugar free, whole food diet.
The article referred to a holiday home in Hungary but I don't see how Vilma could have made this journey regularly of late. It may more likely be the case that the Hungarian Americans wanted to see their homeland one last time because they had to have known that Vilma didnt have too long left. When diabetes isnt controlled by weightloss and proper diet it runs riot. It can cause sight problems and circulation problems. If a diabetic cuts a toe,( eg. while cutting toenails), it may not heal due to poor circulation, leading to gangrene, then amputation. This, I suspect, may be why Vilma lost her leg.
I feel that her husband is filing the lawsuit to bring attention to the way she was treated, and the humiliation she felt, but unfortunately the world at large can only see a problem/fattie/glutton. He saw the person he loved and has now lost. This whole story has brought out the worst in nearly everyone, which is really sad too.

Widower sues airline for €5m over death of obese wife refused seat on three flights

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