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Is it ok to be right wing anymore?

24567…10

Comments

  • #32
    Fukuyama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Fukuyama


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    I'm pretty left wing and liberal, so I automatically disagree with most things the right-wing has to say.

    I don't think it's a "fashion" thing; certain social issues have come to the fore in recent years and in this country the church's loosening grip on our mentality has contributed to more independent thought.

    Many left wing parties are welded to the church.

    Sinn Fein for example.

    Anyways, I consider myself right wing on economic and business matter. Free trade, low taxes etc,

    But left wing on social issues, equality etc...

    So I'm right wing liberal. And I imagine we'd get along just great on social issues. So don't tar everyone with one brush!


  • #33
    ManMade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 474 ✭✭ManMade


    sock puppet wrote: »

    Sorry what? Free trade is one of the key components of liberalism.
    Do liberalists believe in as little government interaction as possible?


  • #34
    landsleaving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    sock puppet wrote: »
    Sorry what? Free trade is one of the key components of liberalism.

    That's neo-liberalism, which is an economic liberalism not associated with left-wing ideologies.


  • #35
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    sock puppet wrote: »
    Sorry what? Free trade is one of the key components of liberalism.
    Libertarianism, but not social/political/cultural liberalism. Free trade is essentially capitalism.


  • #36
    Bad Santa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 381 ✭✭Bad Santa


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    What?
    I said:
    Bad Santa wrote: »
    Not publicly. Liberal atheists are in vogue it would seem.
    You quoted this and said:
    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Most European countries right now have conservative governments, including our own.
    So I said:
    Bad Santa wrote: »
    The ballot box is public now is it.
    Think my point is quite clear.


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  • #37
    imitation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭imitation


    MaxSteele wrote: »
    Not on Boards.ie anyway, that's for sure. Just look at threads all to do with black taxi drivers, Foreign aid, Travellers etc. Right wing opinions are panned to the extent of Mods threatening action and general whinging. You either embrace the majority opinionn or get told to fcuk off.

    To be fair being right wing doesn't mean you are a racist or against immigration, nor does being left wing mean you have open views on immigration, just look a Denmark, high taxes, great social welfare, all the hall marks of a left wing country, but just try and immigrate there or get nationalized. Likewise, look at America, historically crap social welfare but a lot more open to immigration up until the last few years..


  • #38
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    Bad Santa wrote: »
    I said:You quoted this and said:So I said:Think my point is quite clear.
    But obviously she meant the ballot boxes don't need to be made public, seeing as the evidence is clear, given who has been voted into government.


  • #39
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    I'm pretty left wing and liberal, so I automatically disagree with most things the right-wing has to say.

    I don't think it's a "fashion" thing; certain social issues have come to the fore in recent years and in this country the church's loosening grip on our mentality has contributed to more independent thought.

    I'd consider myself centre-left (Social Democrat). Not because it's cool but because it's what I identify and agree with. I don't wear it labelled on my forehead, so it's not something I believe in just to be cool. I admire the Scandinavian model of politics although it's faaaaaaaar from perfect.


    Here in Madrid (can't speak for the rest of Spain) everything is political from what you wear to where you drink. They've a very black and white outlook on political opinions and what "wing"you are. Both sides tend to dislike each other. 3 and a half years here and it's rubbed off a bit and I have to snap myself out of that thinking sometimes. I live in a very left-wing area of Madrid (right now, the only one). It's bizarre that even neighbourhoods are classed by political persuasion. Spain will never reach it's potential because they've divided themselves in such a simplistic way.


  • #40
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Madam_X wrote: »
    But obviously she meant the ballot boxes don't need to be made public, seeing as the evidence is clear, given who has been voted into government.

    Exactly.


  • #41
    Bad Santa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 381 ✭✭Bad Santa


    Madam_X wrote: »
    But obviously she meant the ballot boxes don't need to be made public, seeing as the evidence is clear, given who has been voted into government.

    Eh, wtf.

    It is hardly clear which way Joe Bloggs voted by the result of an election.
    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Exactly.
    :)


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  • #42
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Bad Santa wrote: »
    Not publicly. Liberal atheists are in vogue it would seem.

    So what evidence do you have to back this up? Have you got access to the ballot box now? ;)



    Edit: Results of elections are usually a pretty good indicator of the political leanings of that country.


  • #43
    landsleaving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    Bad Santa wrote: »
    Eh, wtf.

    It is hardly clear which way Joe Bloggs voted by the result of an election.
    :)

    Wait... are you joking or serious?


  • #44
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Bad Santa wrote: »
    Eh, wtf.

    It is hardly clear which way Joe Bloggs voted by the result of an election.
    :)

    You're going to have to explain that one for me there, buddy.


  • #45
    sock puppet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Libertarianism, but not social/political/cultural liberalism. Free trade is essentially capitalism.

    Free trade was always a key element of liberalism.


  • #46
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    Bad Santa wrote: »
    It is hardly clear which way Joe Bloggs voted by the result of an election.
    :)
    In the case of a democracy, it's obviously clear which way the majority votes.


  • #47
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Madam_X wrote: »
    In the case of a democracy, it's obviously clear which way the majority votes.

    And I was talking about Europe, not the PRC or North Korea.


  • #48
    landsleaving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    sock puppet wrote: »
    Free trade was always a key element of liberalism.

    Not so much anymore, neo-liberalism took that on.


  • #49
    Rereggie Perrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭Rereggie Perrin


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Most European countries right now have conservative governments, including our own.
    That would be the FG/LAB centrist coalition? :confused:

    I guess it depends on your own political compass: in Ireland, Obama would probably be considered right wing. In the US he's considered a borderline commie. If you view a centrist government as 'conservative', then you're probably well on the left of the spectrum.

    (are we talking socially or economically left and right wing though?)


  • #50
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    jaffacakesyum wrote: »
    Perhaps it's more that there is a significant section who are extremely liberal and they are the most vocal. Sure the amount of anti-Catholic threads or people screaming "that's racist" to something that's clearly not or the "I'm going to dress my five year old boy as a fairy just to stick it to the gender stereotyping" crowd.

    I think there's certainly a lot of posts on boards.ie that are very conservative but I think they come from a minority of posters. If that makes sense.

    No not really - the amount of welfare bashing posts liberal economics are unreal - to me this site is predominantly right wing

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #51
    Rereggie Perrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭Rereggie Perrin


    mango salsa wrote: »
    No not really - the amount of welfare bashing posts liberal economics are unreal - to me this site is predominantly right wing
    Again, this probably speaks to your own perspective.


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  • #52
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    After Hours is not some sort of beacon of left-wing ideals as some people in this thread are suggesting. Most days you can't see past the threads about slashing the dole and people wanting murderers and rapists to have their crimes branded on their foreheads before being held down and surgically castrated. The attitudes towards drug addicts and the homeless, generally those who are less fortunate, couldn't be further from a left-wing ethos either.


  • #53
    Rereggie Perrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭Rereggie Perrin


    PhlegmyMoses wrote: »
    After Hours is not some sort of beacon of left-wing ideals as some people in this thread are suggesting. Most days you can't see past the threads about slashing the dole and people wanting murderers and rapists to have their crimes branded on their foreheads before being held down and surgically castrated. The attitudes towards drug addicts and the homeless, generally those who are less fortunate, couldn't be further from a left-wing ethos either.
    ...because left wingers think crime should be celebrated and criminals not hindered at all? :confused:

    Again, there's a lot of shades and several axes of left/right - probably a more useful definition is needed.


  • #54
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Dean0088 wrote: »
    Many left wing parties are welded to the church.

    Sinn Fein for example.

    Anyways, I consider myself right wing on economic and business matter. Free trade, low taxes etc,

    But left wing on social issues, equality etc...

    So I'm right wing liberal. And I imagine we'd get along just great on social issues. So don't tar everyone with one brush!

    Left wing parties welded to the church? what?!?!?

    I don't personally consider Sinn Fein left wing because nationalism is an inherently conservative ideology

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #55
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    It seems to be frowned upon in Ireland because the media is very left wing. Anything government initiatives that are remotely to the right are slammed by the media.

    FG are deemed right wing in Ireland but would be further to the left that the Democratic Party in America. In America the Democrats are deemed left wing. I dont see FG as a right wing party, more centrist-left wing. Fianna Fail were definitely a left wing party.


  • #56
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Rereggie Perrin wrote: »
    Again, this probably speaks to your own perspective.

    Indeed. Everyone has some personal perspective. There is no view from nowhere.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #57
    sock puppet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    landsleaving wrote: »
    Not so much anymore, neo-liberalism took that on.

    What do you mean? The free trade argument was pretty much won by the liberals, to the point that every major party now supports it. There's no real need therefore for anyone to argue in favour of it just as there's no need to argue in favour of universal suffrage.

    edit: Well actually I suppose the French are quite protectionist and even we have tariffs for some non EU goods.


  • #58
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    It seems to be frowned upon in Ireland because the media is very left wing.
    Like the red tops, the Irish Mail, much of Independent Newspapers' output, TV3?


  • #59
    Bad Santa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 381 ✭✭Bad Santa


    Madam_X wrote: »
    In the case of a democracy, it's obviously clear which way the majority votes.

    Who said it wasn't clear? You're arguing with yourself on that point.

    My point was that it's not cool to be right wing in public and that when people vote in the ballot box, it's private. Election results tell us what way the majority votes, not how individuals vote and so is not something which can be considered to be public act.
    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    You're going to have to explain that one for me there, buddy.

    Why am not surprised.
    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    So what evidence do you have to back this up? Have you got access to the ballot box now? ;)
    The fact that the media is awash with liberal opinions, as tend to be discussion forums like this one, and yet (as you point you) Conservative governments still get elected, is all the evidence that is needed.


  • #60
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    MaxSteele wrote: »
    Not on Boards.ie anyway, that's for sure. Just look at threads all to do with black taxi drivers, Foreign aid, Travellers etc. Right wing opinions are panned to the extent of Mods threatening action and general whinging. You either embrace the majority opinionn or get told to fcuk off.

    The problem with such threads is that they usually contain some extremists with nothing to back up their points. There's no problem with being a reasonable, intelligent right-winger who can put their points across well.


    In general, it's neither more or less ok to be right wing than it generally has been in the modern age. I think things are basically the same as they always have been: younger people are generally economically left-wing and socially liberal, and older people more right wing.

    I can understand the perception that it's more ok to be liberal (and there is some truth that it's more ok to be, specifically, an atheist, due to the Church's loss of social status) because we live in a more compartmentalised world due to advances in communication and information-access.
    Young middle-class people might think it's now more acceptable to be left-wing, but that's only because they're able to cloister themselves somewhat and spend more time interacting predominantly with their peers (particularly online) and thus not encountering a full range of points of view.
    In a somewhat similar fashion, a bunch of older women who regularly meet at each other's houses for tea would probably share fairly similar perspectives.

    Just because the largest demographic on Boards.ie is probably somewhat liberal young men, it doesn't necessarily follow that they're representative of society as a whole.


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  • #61
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    Bad Santa wrote: »
    Why am not surprised.
    Why pretend to not be surprised, implying you think she's not bright (when you know that's not true)? It was a misunderstanding/disagreement - and others picked you up wrongly also. Being disagreed with/misunderstood hardly justifies such a comment.


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