Minor Fixes (Fantasy Infrastructure Planner?)

MJohnston · 24-01-2013 3:47pm #1

What minor changes would you make to existing roads or other infrastructure? Two that I can think of:

Where? Junction of Portland Row and Amiens Street/North Strand Road

Why? Cars love to try and turn right from Portland Row here to get onto North Strand Road. It's currently got a No Right Turn sign, but it's frequently ignored, causing backed up traffic further down Seville Place. Considering only the far lane is supposed to be able to turn onto this road, I reckon it should be blocked off, either with floppy bollards or with a kerb.

Where? Westbound lane of Sir John Rogerson's Quay

Why? In the evening rush hour, this place is a bit of a mess in general, but one thing that's really bad is traffic attempting to get out of the Docklands (via John Rogerson's Quay) onto Samuel Beckett Bridge is usually unable to because the traffic light phases at the junction with Cardiff Lane tend to only go green when there is no room to proceed through. Most of the time someone will try anyway, blocking up the junction for everyone. I'd propose making the westbound lane of SJR Quay into a bus lane (With 7a-7p restrictions maybe) for the 15A/B or making it fully one-way (east) and rerouting regular traffic via the route marked in blue above. The Cardiff Lane and Misery Hill junction has much more room to accommodate the exiting traffic. Bonus: if you made it totally one-way, you could remove the red-light for north bound Cardiff Lane traffic.

Cool Mo D · 24-01-2013 4:49pm

Good idea for a thread.

Two DART ideas - proper terminating platform at Malahide, and allow DARTs to turn back at Howth Junction to allow a Howth - Howth Junction shuttle.

At the moment neither the Howth or Malahide branches are well served by the DART, due to infrequent unpredictable timings. Adding these changes would allow off-peak DARTs all the serve Malahide, with a shuttle serving Howth, which would give a much better frequency on both branches.

In the city centre, yellow box cameras for major junctions would be a godsend, as would equipping buses with forward facing cameras to catch cars using bus lanes. This would free up Garda resources, and would only punish cars that were actually in the way of a bus.

Also, Suffolk street is a mess. This could in large part be helped by pedestrianising Andrew street, and making Trinity Street two way up to the car park (There is just enough room for two cars to access the car park).
This would reserve Suffolk street for buses and taxis only, and prevent a car turning left from blocking the whole street, as there is not room for a bus and car beside each other on the street.

Also, remove the taxi rank in the bus lane on Dawson street - it is terrible for traffic.

munchkin_utd · 24-01-2013 6:29pm

great idea for a thread

mine would be to copy what you sometimes see in the UK and have 2 lanes out of busy roundabouts on single carraigeway national primary and secondary routes merging into 1 a little further on.
Why? Well,
a ) it improves capacity of a roundabout as 2 cars can exit (and go round) a roundabout at the same time.
b ) it allows an overtaking opportunity for cars to get by trucks and other slow moving traffic safely improving journey times.
c ) related to b ) - extra overtaking opportunities mean less frustration and less drivers doing dangerous overtaking manoeuvres meaning less casualties on the road.

with regards to b) - very small numbers of slow moving traffic cause cross country journeys in Ireland to be slowed down substantially during busier times of the day that overtaking is unsafe or impossible due to the volume of oncoming traffic.
Many Irish roads are very wide where there are hard shoulders so to add an extra exit lane for 500m or so after a roundabout would literally cost only a bit of paint and a couple of signs to indicate that theres an overtaking lane for 500m.

The only negative is that this measure which would cost very little to implement may be too effective in increasing average journey time and casualties on the road that some road improvements may no longer be justified (well, in an ideal world you'd have that dramatic of an effect!)

Mr Simpson · 24-01-2013 6:34pm

One I would like to see, but dont have a map, is sequenced traffic lights on the Malahide Road at the artane roundabout. At the moment there are lights, but you can be stuck for ages trying to get onto the roundabout.

25-01-2013 3:18am

MarkMc wrote: »

One I would like to see, but dont have a map, is sequenced traffic lights on the Malahide Road at the artane roundabout. At the moment there are lights, but you can be stuck for ages trying to get onto the roundabout.

See
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_light_control_and_coordination
For why that won't happen

antoobrien · 25-01-2013 11:24am

MarkMc wrote: »

One I would like to see, but dont have a map, is sequenced traffic lights on the Malahide Road at the artane roundabout. At the moment there are lights, but you can be stuck for ages trying to get onto the roundabout.

Instead of that moving/removing the pedestrian lights that are offset from the roundabout. Either replace them with zebra crossings or footbridges - there's certainly enough space to put in proper ones that would facilitate everyone.

bridgepeople · 25-01-2013 6:14pm

antoobrien wrote: »

Instead of that moving/removing the pedestrian lights that are offset from the roundabout. Either replace them with zebra crossings or footbridges - there's certainly enough space to put in proper ones that would facilitate everyone.

Zebra crossings create a lot of difficulty for the visually impaired and footbridges would need to have a lift on both sides for wheelchairs and buggies, so might be costly.

My suggestion would be a systematic widening of footpaths in Dublin city centre. The south side seems to be particularly bad: Dame street, Lower Baggot Street, Westmoreland Street and D'Olier Street all have too much room given over to cars and too little to pedestrians. The latter two in particular have a crazy number of traffic lanes. Dame Street is just plain ugly and disfunctional which is a shame as it is one of the city's main arteries linking College Green with Christchurch. If Dame Street was relaid in a similar way to O'Connell Street, it would be a big improvment to the feel of the city at relatively minor expense.

antoobrien · 25-01-2013 6:32pm

bridgepeople wrote: »

Zebra crossings create a lot of difficulty for the visually impaired and footbridges would need to have a lift on both sides for wheelchairs and buggies, so might be costly.

Easy enough to solve both of those - use a set of traffic lights with a flashing yellow & red light (no green) that operates in the same way as standard lights.

Wrt footbridges there's no need for lifts in this location as there is loads of room on either side for proper ramps - more room than there is at fairview opposite the park.

HonalD · 26-01-2013 12:00am

antoobrien wrote: »

Easy enough to solve both of those - use a set of traffic lights with a flashing yellow & red light (no green) that operates in the same way as standard lights.

Not sure how that would work - a flashing amber signal to traffic means - yield to pedestrians..........is that not the same thing?

rameire · 27-01-2013 3:23pm

I have one minor fix.

I would love to see a separation of two slips on the M50.
Northbound on the M50, I would segregate the slip onto the m50 at the Ballymount junction and the Off M50 slip to the Mad cow Junction.
The Ballymount on slip would stay at a height above what is there and would then go over the off slip for the Mad cow slip, it would then decend and feed into the M50 and the off slip at the mad cow, closer to the Mad cow junction.

This would reduce the crossover traffic and slowdown created at the bottom of the Ballymount slip.
thus reducing the tailbacks that go back to Tallaght sometimes.

And one major fantasy fix

I had a few billion spare,
I would create an over head motorway that is for long distance on the m50,
so you would have access only at half the junctions on the M50, so one at the Airport, one at Blanch one at the Mad cow one at Shankill and then it would merge in with the main line just after junction 14 leopardstown.

antoobrien · 28-01-2013 10:37am

HonalD wrote: »

Not sure how that would work - a flashing amber signal to traffic means - yield to pedestrians..........is that not the same thing?

The argument against traditional zebra crossings is that people with sight & mobility issues won't know if it's safe to cross, or be able to in a reasonable timframe. Converting traditional lights/adding this feature to allow them to simulate zebra lights but still retain the ability to stop traffic is aimed at helping these concerns.

Colm R · 28-01-2013 3:15pm

A proper standard of what towns should be signposted and where?

Not really a problem on the National and Motorway routes, but on R and L roads the whole thing is so disjointed. I think, but I'm not sure, that the next town should be signposted. In practice its not always the case. It would be nice to see the next two towns signposted, and as you come within a couple of km of a town, the third town from here should be signposted. Not always practical given some roads are so short.

munchkin_utd · 28-01-2013 5:57pm

Colm R wrote: »

A proper standard of what towns should be signposted and where?<snip>

to expand on that,
proper signing of services on motorways including always mentioning the name/ location of the one after next when signing an upcoming location.

The signs also should NOT be in brown as they aren't an external tourist site but an integral part of the journey so like every other motorway sign should be in blue.
I'd be liberal enough on allowing local non NRA service stations/ foodhalls to be signed as services so long as they are no more than a km from an exit and have ample parking (so no sign at say Cashel which has inadequate parking, both in amount of spaces and safety/ design)

ALSO!
For safety and convience sakes I'd also include branding info like the coffee chains/ fuel chain/ fast food chain etc. even on non motorways like say the N7 outbound where every station is simply marked with a petrol sign but you have to slow to a crawl to see if the upcoming station is really the one that you want to stop at i.e. applegreen rather than topaz or whatever.
(although you could stop and have a picnic on the driving lane of the N7 normally seeing as nobody uses it - but anyhow)

Aquarius34 · 29-01-2013 4:28pm

rameire wrote: »

I have one minor fix.

I would love to see a separation of two slips on the M50.
Northbound on the M50, I would segregate the slip onto the m50 at the Ballymount junction and the Off M50 slip to the Mad cow Junction.
The Ballymount on slip would stay at a height above what is there and would then go over the off slip for the Mad cow slip, it would then decend and feed into the M50 and the off slip at the mad cow, closer to the Mad cow junction.

This would reduce the crossover traffic and slowdown created at the bottom of the Ballymount slip.
thus reducing the tailbacks that go back to Tallaght sometimes.

And one major fantasy fix

I had a few billion spare,
I would create an over head motorway that is for long distance on the m50,
so you would have access only at half the junctions on the M50, so one at the Airport, one at Blanch one at the Mad cow one at Shankill and then it would merge in with the main line just after junction 14 leopardstown.

I agree too, I was actually thinking this whilst I was driving on this section of the M50 a while back.

It would be great to make it a full ring at least then traffic would flow better in a clock work fashion and it would also ease north south traffic that has to use the west side of the M50 as it does currently. If the M11-M1 connection was made through Sandyford up to Ringsend, it would ease traffic on the westlink by at least 30,000 vehicles a day.

The Ballymount slip with the Redcow merge is already starting to cause problems. If you look at the Ballymount road itself it now has new road links all the way to citywest. This meaning that this junction is only going to get a lot busier now. It is far to close to the Red cow interchange. But it could be fixed if the south facing slips were raised or fixed. The M50 to N7 westbound slips and N7 to M50 southbound slips as you have mentioned beforehand can be raised over the existing interchange quite easily. The current configuration is getting retrained and I dislike the N7 to M50 southbound loops. Those loops are too tight for two major roads to meet like that. Also if the Red cow slips were segregated, this would mean the mainline from Lucan to Ballymount can have four lines mainline and 5 between the current interchanges with only a few modifications to the land bank and the railway bridge.

I'd also add a segregated slip road bridge (two lanes) from Lucan N4 over the liffy going NB and joining back to the M50 mainline.

Stonewolf · 30-01-2013 12:48am

I'd like to see the N3 Inbound to M50 Northbound slip redesigned to be flatter.

Currently you come around a corner with a low limit (correct enough given the tightness of the bend) onto a long downhill stretch perfect for accelerating up to motorway speed efficiently but some gombeen put the 100km/hr sign way off in the distance at the motorway end where you're going steeply (for a motorway) uphill which causes idiots fellow motorists to drive really slowly up to it and then force you to waste fuel (and output much CO2) accelerating up a hill. The hill itself could be significantly shortened by simply removing the dip which is I believe a bridge anyway just to add insult to injury.

Aquarius34 · 30-01-2013 1:59am

Stonewolf wrote: »

I'd like to see the N3 Inbound to M50 Northbound slip redesigned to be flatter.

Currently you come around a corner with a low limit (correct enough given the tightness of the bend) onto a long downhill stretch perfect for accelerating up to motorway speed efficiently but some gombeen put the 100km/hr sign way off in the distance at the motorway end where you're going steeply (for a motorway) uphill which causes idiots fellow motorists to drive really slowly up to it and then force you to waste fuel (and output much CO2) accelerating up a hill. The hill itself could be significantly shortened by simply removing the dip which is I believe a bridge anyway just to add insult to injury.

That isn't a big issue and if you really think this is a problem, then you could pretty much bulldoze the whole M50 because it's a planning disaster. Even the M1 free flow interchange is just horrible and having an ugly roundabout planted in the middle of it all. The Red cow is also a mess wit very dangerous merges, tight curves.and right hand merge slips.

The N3 works pretty well considering it's complications and tight space for the upgrade although. Pity they didn't remove the traffic lights before the interchange.

MJohnston · 30-01-2013 12:12pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

That isn't a big issue

Please re-read thread title

Frank Black · 30-01-2013 12:25pm

Aquarius34 wrote: »

That isn't a big issue and if you really think this is a problem, then you could pretty much bulldoze the whole M50 because it's a planning disaster. Even the M1 free flow interchange is just horrible and having an ugly roundabout planted in the middle of it all. The Red cow is also a mess wit very dangerous merges, tight curves.and right hand merge slips.

The N3 works pretty well considering it's complications and tight space for the upgrade although. Pity they didn't remove the traffic lights before the interchange.

Planning is an issue with the M50, but not in the way you imagine imo.
The main problem with the M50 is that it was originally conceived as a Dublin Bypass, but due to large scale development of suberban Dublin it has become a major commuter route for traffic entering/exiting the city.
The 'Planning' issue is more to do with the zoning by LA's which has gone on over the last couple of decades.
The M50 has really been having to play catch-up to try to accommodate traffic demands which it was not originally conceived to deal with.

The Dublin outer orbital route has been designed to try to replace what the M50 was supposed to be i.e. a bypass for through traffic. Although with the current financial situation it may be a while before this scheme ever goes to construction.

In the meantime we're stuck with the M50 - but rather harsh to blame its problems on the original planners.

Irish Steve · 07-03-2013 10:04pm

Some new interchanges on to the M50 would help. A new one at the Ratoath road would facilitate a lot of heavy goods traffic in and out of the North Western Industrial estate area, there are no decent access roads for what is a huge area that are not either passing through residential areas, or going along very narrow and inappropriate roads

The same can be said for the Western Parkway area, an interchange into that area from the M50 would reduce the congestion on the N7 and Naas road area.

Can't understand why so many motorway junctions have a roundabout at each end, if there's only one road coming in from the side, then there's no traffic to do a 180 at the roundabout, so if someone wants to do a 180, maybe once a year, then let them cross the bridge and use the roundabout at the other end, and make both roundabouts into what I can best describe a a dog bone shape.

Fewer signs, less white lining, less confusion for traffic coming off the motorway.

To improve things at M50 junctions, something similar to what the Americans use, a deformable barrier between lane 2 & 3 for a considerable distance either side of the junction so that people wanting to exit at the junction can only do so from Lane 1 or 2, and on joining have to remain in Lane 1 or 2 while accelerating, which would prevent people jumping from lane 1 to lane 4 at low speeds. Even better, but more expensive, would be a variable length barrier between 1 & 2 to prevent queue jumpers from trying to force their way into Lane 1 and causing massive hold ups to Lane 2, and often a near accident as they block it because lane 1 is full.

Sort out the speed limits so that there is some consistency across the country.

The Old N2 from Kilshane Cross to Coolquoy is 60 Kph, it's a former N road, with wide hard shoulder, almost straight, and wide, yet has 60 speed limit. The only justification I can see for it is to facilitate land owners either side who are seeking planning permission for development. There is no good reason to justify it from a road speed or safety aspect.

There are R roads that have a 100 Kph limit, and others that have 80, and the 100 is narrower, and has more twists than the roads with 80, and in some places, there are N roads that are worse than the R roads. Some consistency would be nice.

Some decent, large, accessible and well served park & ride facilities in the Santry, Ballymun, Finglas and Blanchardstown areas to make up for the absence of Dart & Luas services, so that people on the North side of Dublin can also get into town without the hassle.

that's enough, most of these are not going to happen, too much inertia, too many NIMBY issues for most of these things to even get considered.

D.L.R. · 18-03-2013 3:21pm

:mad: Merrion Gates grade separation :mad:

The land is there, just not the political will apparently. Anywhere else in Western Europe this would've been seen to years ago.

Disillusioning that the state isn't bothered investing in more efficient infrastructure in important economic areas, and then asks the public for faith in its economic programs.

I bet if you went door to door to each car waiting in traffic here they would gladly donate to fund this project themselves!

jd · 20-03-2013 12:07pm

Irish Steve wrote: »

Some new interchanges on to the M50 would help. A new one at the Ratoath road would facilitate a lot of heavy goods traffic in and out of the North Western Industrial estate area

I'd have to disagree with this. I think it'd be too close to the Finglas interchange.

monument · 24-03-2013 6:25pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

:mad: Merrion Gates grade separation :mad:

The land is there, just not the political will apparently. Anywhere else in Western Europe this would've been seen to years ago.

Disillusioning that the state isn't bothered investing in more efficient infrastructure in important economic areas, and then asks the public for faith in its economic programs.

I bet if you went door to door to each car waiting in traffic here they would gladly donate to fund this project themselves!

The following was budged for last year, no clue of what it included and these thing tend to take time to progress...

Merrion Gates Level Crossing Closure Scheme -- Progression of the design for a road link to facilitate the closure of the Merrion Gates level crossing. -- €100,000.00

loyatemu · 24-03-2013 11:23pm

monument wrote: »

The following was budged for last year, no clue of what it included and these thing tend to take time to progress...

Merrion Gates Level Crossing Closure Scheme -- Progression of the design for a road link to facilitate the closure of the Merrion Gates level crossing. -- €100,000.00

If they sorted out the slack in putting the gates up and down it would improve things greatly there, though it'd just push the delays somewhere else (Irishtown in the mornings, Blackrock in the evenings). Eastern Bypass is the ultimate solution.

Gumbo · 25-03-2013 4:44pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

:mad: Merrion Gates grade separation :mad:

The land is there, just not the political will apparently. Anywhere else in Western Europe this would've been seen to years ago.

Disillusioning that the state isn't bothered investing in more efficient infrastructure in important economic areas, and then asks the public for faith in its economic programs.

I bet if you went door to door to each car waiting in traffic here they would gladly donate to fund this project themselves!

Same goes for the new bridge at Campbells Bridge in Finglas. Or O'reillys Bridge I think is the official name, it separates Finglas and cabra.

iopener · 26-03-2013 6:28pm

i'd love to see the hundred meters or so in drumcrondra where the road narrows bottlenecks,(cat and cage pub) opened up to single carriage and bus lane each way,can't understand why this hasn't happened,CPO the 4 or 5 properties that are causing this hold up.there mustn't be a day that you don't have on the aa roadwatch about the traffic jams.

rameire · 26-03-2013 10:05pm

iopener wrote: »

i'd love to see the hundred meters or so in drumcrondra where the road narrows bottlenecks,(cat and cage pub) opened up to single carriage and bus lane each way,can't understand why this hasn't happened,CPO the 4 or 5 properties that are causing this hold up.there mustn't be a day that you don't have on the aa roadwatch about the traffic jams.

i think there is either a gas connector or a electricity connector on the st pats side of the road just behind the wall, but yes, its a pain.

monument · 27-03-2013 10:38pm

The NTA seems to be behind or central to the push of many of these smaller projects which are now progressing...

iopener wrote: »

i'd love to see the hundred meters or so in drumcrondra where the road narrows bottlenecks,(cat and cage pub) opened up to single carriage and bus lane each way,can't understand why this hasn't happened,CPO the 4 or 5 properties that are causing this hold up.there mustn't be a day that you don't have on the aa roadwatch about the traffic jams.

Like many other smaller fixes, it is progressing and it received funding allocation in the last year or so. Not sure exactly where it's at now but it could not be too far from tendering.

rameire wrote: »

i think there is either a gas connector or a electricity connector on the st pats side of the road just behind the wall, but yes, its a pain.

There is but it seems like it is not going to stop the widening.

kceire wrote: »

Same goes for the new bridge at Campbells Bridge in Finglas. Or O'reillys Bridge I think is the official name, it separates Finglas and cabra.

Just found this: http://www.dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=2058

Being tendered for. Good to see it progressing.

loyatemu wrote: »

If they sorted out the slack in putting the gates up and down it would improve things greatly there, though it'd just push the delays somewhere else (Irishtown in the mornings, Blackrock in the evenings). Eastern Bypass is the ultimate solution.

The 'slack' is a requirement of railway safety standards.

We'll leave the Eastern Bypass for another thread...

Minor Fixes (Fantasy Infrastructure Planner?)

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