Another Shooting in the U.S..

MadsL · 24-01-2013 01:30AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

I didn't say one bullet would kill - I said do the trick, as in incapacitate them. Real life is not the movies, once you are shot u tend to fall over.

You however have been watching too many movies. Adrenaline means many people who are shot keep moving, even walking, after they are shot. Recent case in the US a woman trapped in a closet with kids unloaded a pistol into a intruders face and he walked out only to collapse behind the wheel of his car as he attempted to escape.

A friend of mine put two bullets point blank into the chest of the guy she woke up to who broke in and was now straddling her preparing to rape her, then one more in his ass as he ran out. He collapsed on her lawn but lived.

Your fantasy of one shot to put someone down is just that, a fantasy. Numerous cases exist of multiple bullets just to get someone on the ground.

95% of people who are shot survive if they get timely medical assistance.

Standard police procedure is two to the chest one to the head, repeat as required.

Manic Moran · 24-01-2013 01:34AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

I didn't say one bullet would kill - I said do the trick, as in incapacitate them. Real life is not the movies, once you are shot u tend to fall over.

That is absolutely incorrect an shows a serious (but not surprising, really) lack of ballistics knowledge. Real life is, indeed, not like the movies where people tend to fall over once hit. Unless you hit something instantly vital, like the brain stem, or maybe disable a joint, there no physical reason for anyone who has been shot to fall over. It is actually a psychological reaction to being shot, more of a reflex action (if the body recognises that it has been shot in the first place), which causes most 'immediate' falls. Even if shot through the heart, an attacker can be dangerous for ten-fifteen seconds. The more holes you put into someone, the more likely that (1) you will hit something immediately vital, or (2) that the target will finally figure out that he should fall down.

NTM

Manic Moran · 24-01-2013 01:39AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

I don't myself think that clip/magazine size really matters. If a guy goes into a school with a hand gun and multiple rounds, he is gonna do a lot of damage by the times the authorities arrive.

But I myself think a semi automatic will enable him/her to do more because of the high rate of fire.

For the record, Charles Whitman killed 11 and wounded 30 by using a bolt-action Remington 700 with a 3-round magazine. (The others he used a shotgun on)

Lets face it, guns and schools don't mix, whether its an AR, starter pistol or air rifle.

Unfortunately, persons such as Lanza seemed to disagree with that assessment.

JayEnnis · 24-01-2013 01:42AM

I love how they say there were several guns recovered but are sure to specify one was a semi automatic military rifle.

No, an AR-15 is not a military style rifle. It's a semi-automatic rifle, same as countless others that don't "look as dangerous". I don't see how the furniture of the gun affects its lethality but that's scaremongering for you.

Although this is tragic, the guns should have been locked up securely. I'd just like to mention that nearly every mass killing since 1950 has been committed in a gun free zone by the way. These people are cowards and prey on the unarmed. Banning guns won't work, there's just too many of the floating around in the states.

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 02:18AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

That is absolutely incorrect an shows a serious (but not surprising, really) lack of ballistics knowledge. Real life is, indeed, not like the movies where people tend to fall over once hit. Unless you hit something instantly vital, like the brain stem, or maybe disable a joint, there no physical reason for anyone who has been shot to fall over. It is actually a psychological reaction to being shot, more of a reflex action (if the body recognises that it has been shot in the first place), which causes most 'immediate' falls. Even if shot through the heart, an attacker can be dangerous for ten-fifteen seconds. The more holes you put into someone, the more likely that (1) you will hit something immediately vital, or (2) that the target will finally figure out that he should fall down.

NTM

Your right im no expert on balistics or gunshot wounds:

http://www.ajronline.org/content/155/4/685.full.pdf

Ill draw your attention to the conclussion at the end.

Burglars usually go for SOFT targets. Ones where they will not be disturbed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burglary

A burglar no more wants to meet you, than you do him.

From your point of view, always shoot a burglar and always shoot him more than once.

Lets get away from the fanciful scenerios dreamed up by people and talk about actual events.

Ive known 2 people to have a gun pointed at them. Once was nearly 20 yrs ago, a robber walked into a betting shop with a fire arm and told eveyone to hit the floor. MY work mate, he the floor in 2 seconds flat (and this was a guy i wouldnt get in a fight with). The other situation happened only last week, a guy i know through my wife was working (works in a bar), and 2 armed robbers came in, one pointed at gun at this guy and told him to hit the floor, he actually ran out of the bar (fight or flight i presume), he didnt get hurt thank god and the 2 in question where caught.

Why is this relevent you ask, its because of the effect pointing a gun at someone has.

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 02:21AM

JayEnnis wrote: »

I love how they say there were several guns recovered but are sure to specify one was a semi automatic military rifle.

No, an AR-15 is not a military style rifle. It's a semi-automatic rifle, same as countless others that don't "look as dangerous". I don't see how the furniture of the gun affects its lethality but that's scaremongering for you.

Although this is tragic, the guns should have been locked up securely. I'd just like to mention that nearly every mass killing since 1950 has been committed in a gun free zone by the way. These people are cowards and prey on the unarmed. Banning guns won't work, there's just too many of the floating around in the states.

If an AR is not styled on a "military assault rifle", im lost for words.

Witcher · 24-01-2013 02:27AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

If an AR is not styled on a "military assault rifle", im lost for words.

An AR15 isn't an assault rifle. The M16 is an assault rifle.

Ar15 =/= M16

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 02:31AM

Many years ago my older brother got shot on a dance floor in a bar, he had so many drinks he didn't know it till the next day when he woke up. It was with a .22, only one shot in the upper shoulder in the back (must have been dancing with the wrong gal).

That was not his first brush in a gun fight, ironically, it was doctors mistakes that killed him in 09', had nothing to do with guns.

Just my 2 cents on the being shot and it not killing you.

Summary: Doctors are more dangerous than guns (IMHO).

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 02:44AM

CollardGreens wrote: »

Many years ago my older brother got shot on a dance floor in a bar, he had so many drinks he didn't know it till the next day when he woke up. It was with a .22, only one shot in the upper shoulder in the back (must have been dancing with the wrong gal).

That was not his first brush in a gun fight, ironically, it was doctors mistakes that killed him in 09', had nothing to do with guns.

Just my 2 cents on the being shot and it not killing you.

Summary: Doctors are more dangerous than guns (IMHO).

Sorry for your loss

I was tempted to make a comment about his dancing until i read further

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 03:00AM

Thank you StinkyMunkey, he would have appreciated a funny comment on his dancing. The man had a great sense of humor, and his dancing was hilarious. Women cause more trouble with him than the drinking and guns combined, lol. He died 2 months after his 50th birthday. He got his baby sister (yours truly) into shooting as a young child (Momma would have shot him if she had known, lol).

The fellows above you that know their guns, they are right. It's not the guns, it's the person that kills. Americans (and I realize not all that posted are in the US) that don't live in the cities grow up with guns being just as natural as learning how to drive, at least a lot I know do.

I was reading the post on another thread that could be combined in a strange way with this one. It was about suicide rates in Ireland and when I was reading it all I could think was were the people that do this seemed to have lost their hope. We have suicide here, but I don't think it's at the same rate and maybe here there is more hope because as of right now, it's THE PEOPLE that run their own country. We feel WE can make the change and don't have to depend on our government to make it for us. I believe that people need to feel like they have the choices in their own lives to make what life will be without having their hands tied.

Anyway, maybe I'm wrong but those are my thoughts on the difference in opinions about guns and well.....just feeling like you have rights and hope.

(I'm hoping this isn't too much OT, seems like its on topic since it has to do with mental illness which is what was the problem with the shooters)

hooradiation · 24-01-2013 03:07AM

If children have proven themselves unable to use toys without hurting themselves then you remove the toy.

Time to take away baby's rattle.

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 03:09AM

CollardGreens wrote: »

Thank you StinkyMunkey, he would have appreciated a funny comment on his dancing. The man had a great sense of humor, and his dancing was hilarious. Women cause more trouble with him than the drinking and guns combined, lol. He died 2 months after his 50th birthday. He got his baby sister (yours truly) into shooting as a young child (Momma would have shot him if she had known, lol).

The fellows above you that know their guns, they are right. It's not the guns, it's the person that kills. Americans (and I realize not all that posted are in the US) that don't live in the cities grow up with guns being just as natural as learning how to drive, at least a lot I know do.

I was reading the post on another thread that could be combined in a strange way with this one. It was about suicide rates in Ireland and when I was reading it all I could think was were the people that do this seemed to have lost their hope. We have suicide here, but I don't think it's at the same rate and maybe here there is more hope because as of right now, it's THE PEOPLE that run their own country. We feel WE can make the change and don't have to depend on our government to make it for us. I believe that people need to feel like they have the choices in their own lives to make what life will be without having their hands tied.

Anyway, maybe I'm wrong but those are my thoughts on the difference in opinions about guns and well.....just feeling like you have rights and hope.

(I'm hoping this isn't too much OT, seems like its on topic since it has to do with mental illness which is what was the problem with the shooters)

I suppose its catch 22 at this stage, there are just to many fire arms out there to actually have a major impact on mass shootings, in an ideal world we would not need guns - but hey its not an ideal world

As you have stated, people in the states are brought up with guns as a fact of life. And that is never going to be easy to change, I suppose its like telling me i cant have a beer, its just the Irish culture to have a scoop.

I suppose i just need to vent when i see innocents being killed, and it pains me to think i cant stop it.

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 03:12AM

If children have proven themselves unable to use toys without hurting themselves then you remove the toy.

Time to take away baby's rattle.

You know, I feel the same way about some people with their computers!

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 03:16AM

As you have stated, people in the states are brought up with guns as a fact of life. And that is never going to be easy to change, I suppose its like telling me i cant have a beer, its just the Irish culture to have a scoop.

Why should you have to "change" having a beer if you are not harming anybody? Why should any American have to "change" having guns if they aren't harming anybody? It's the mindset, just whom is in charge? If you are not harming anybody or yourself, then it isn't anybodies dang business!

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 03:24AM

CollardGreens wrote: »

Why should you have to "change" having a beer if you are not harming anybody? Why should any American have to "change" having guns if they aren't harming anybody? It's the mindset, just whom is in charge? If you are not harming anybody or yourself, then it isn't anybodies dang business!

Id like to say having a beer isn harming anyone, have you seen Dublin city center on a friday night, it can be like down town Iraqi. I agree it is a mindset, and that its practically impossibly to change in this generation.

While i do agree the 2nd amendment was made with good intentions, its a little outdated and cant help feel that less firearms in the world could only be a good thing.

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 03:35AM

While i do agree the 2nd amendment was made with good intentions, its a little outdated and cant help feel that less firearms in the world could only be a good thing.

To me personally, being a Christian, I don't find the second amendment any more "outdated" than the Bible!

And on that same note, I'm of the opinion that if God weren't taken out of schools years ago then we wouldn't be having half the trouble we have in schools and in public today!

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 03:43AM

CollardGreens wrote: »

To me personally, being a Christian, I don't find the second amendment any more "outdated" than the Bible!

And on that same note, I'm of the opinion that if God weren't taken out of schools years ago then we wouldn't be having half the trouble we have in schools and in public today!

Im not a religious person tbh, and its probably better i dont make my feeling known on religion.

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 04:06AM

I was referring to the comment on the 2nd amendment being outdated and my opinion that I don't think it's outdated. I do want to keep on topic, so I just sent you a PM on the other topic. We possibly agree more than not?!

Mjollnir · 24-01-2013 04:28AM

CollardGreens wrote: »

To me personally, being a Christian, I don't find the second amendment any more "outdated" than the Bible!

And on that same note, I'm of the opinion that if God weren't taken out of schools years ago then we wouldn't be having half the trouble we have in schools and in public today!

God has never been and cannot be 'taken out of schools'.

Odd opinion you have there, based in a false premise.

Overheal · 24-01-2013 04:41AM

hooradiation wrote: »

If children have proven themselves unable to use toys without hurting themselves then you remove the toy.

Time to take away baby's rattle.

If the child is the United States: Theres about 90 firearms in the US per 100 people (A lot). The Rate of gun homicide and suicide per 100,000 people, is 10.2 per year. 90,000 guns, 10 deaths per year, per 100,000 people.

Contrast: US has over 800 vehicles per 1000 people, Deaths per 100,000 people per year, is 12.3. So, we have fewer cars then we have guns (wow), but more traffic deaths than gun deaths.

Take away the cars?

Ehm, no, just do things on a case by case basis. People lose their licenses to drive/carry firearms regularly. Banning all guns/car for the sake of the very small minority is impractical.

PS. Ireland your road fatality rate seems pretty low. Way to go on the safe driving campaigns! And nobody banned vehicles to do it.

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

I could have 10 guys break into my house, once I start waving that gun around, self preservation kicks in. Burglars maybe be scumbags, but they ain't brain dead!

You assume that 10 of 10 house invaders will not be armed?

Guess it doesn't pay to be a burglar in the states. Seems its a very dangerous profession!

Yes, because burglars can rely on people with guns not giving them "parlay". Warn a robber you have a gun, he goes "Oh, lol ok" and robs the next guy? I'd much rather send the message out to anyone thinking of robbing people that it's not a profession with a lot of job security.

If a guy goes into a school with a hand gun and multiple rounds, he is gonna do a lot of damage by the times the authorities arrive.

Right, because gun-free zones are asinine.

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Mjollnir wrote: »

God has never been and cannot be 'taken out of schools'.

Odd opinion you have there, based in a false premise.

Well, I suppose that depends on your spiritual perspective

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 04:42AM

God has never been and cannot be 'taken out of schools'.

Odd opinion you have there, based in a false premise.

Yes...and No. I'd like to hear what you have to say but don't think this thread is the place for it, being this is a thread about shootings in the US. If you wish to take the conversation to another thread please let me know where and you can let me know your thoughts behind your post. I see you are also in the states. Here on the east coast the public schools have made some changes since I was young in school.

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 04:46AM

Prepare for eternal hellfire. Bannednyanyannyan.

LOLOLOL, thanks for a good belly laugh! I'm painting the ceiling (no fun) and could use a laugh, good one!

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 04:57AM

Overheal wrote: »

.
You assume that 10 of 10 house invaders will not be armed?
Yes, because burglars can rely on people with guns not giving them "parlay". Warn a robber you have a gun, he goes "Oh, lol ok" and robs the next guy? I'd much rather send the message out to anyone thinking of robbing people that it's not a profession with a lot of job security. Right, because gun-free zones are asinine.

I meant if 10 guys broke into my house (as in all at once).

I dont need to assume anything, fact is all burglars are armed, they need a tool to break in (unless ofc u leave your door open). Another fact is the vast majority of burglars are only interested in stealing your property and not you.

You could argue that not everyone who breaks into a house wants your property. And if someone does break into your house with the intention of harming you or your family, they will not advertise it (as in you probably wont see them coming), and thats you up the creek without a paddle whether you have an RPG or Apache helicopter under your pillow.

And sure you might have the alarm on, but what self repecting "intruder" out to kill sticks around when it goes off?

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 04:57AM

Oh my, another shooting just came across the news

A lockdown as I'm typing this at a university in Virginia. That's all the news right now. No news if anybody got shot or if a shooter is just there.

Overheal · 24-01-2013 05:08AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

I meant if 10 guys broke into my house (as in all at once).

I dont need to assume anything, fact is all burglars are armed, they need a tool to break in (unless ofc u leave your door open). Another fact is the vast majority of burglars are only interested in stealing your property and not you.

You could argue that not everyone who breaks into a house wants your property. And if someone does break into your house with the intention of harming you or your family, they will not advertise it (as in you probably wont see them coming), and thats you up the creek without a paddle whether you have an RPG or Apache helicopter under your pillow.

And sure you might have the alarm on, but what self repecting "intruder" out to kill sticks around when it goes off?

You JUST got done having a conversation on this thread with someone who's friend was almost raped because an intruder broke into her home while she was asleep, and she still managed to shoot him in the ass.

I think your argument is invalid. You can't just assume the intruder's element of surprise will automatically negate the ownership of a gun.

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 05:29AM

I want an Apache helicopter, yup, don't have one of those yet. Dang....and I thought an ar would have made me a complete woman.....

(walks away, climbs up latter to continue to paint with sad face....lol)

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 05:30AM

Overheal wrote: »

You JUST got done having a conversation on this thread with someone who's friend was almost raped because an intruder broke into her home while she was asleep, and she still managed to shoot him in the ass.

I think your argument is invalid. You can't just assume the intruder's element of surprise will automatically negate the ownership of a gun.

Sorry I missed the part about the attempted rape. And if its not to impolite, what type of firearm was the attempted rapist shot with (pity he wasn't shot in the head if you ask me).

I didn't say an intruders surprise negates the ownership of a gun (I've never proposed an outright ban on firearms/guns).

The 2 people I do know who own firearms, store them in a gun safe. I assume in America you don't need one. But I'd rather have a pistol under my pillow than an AR. I also assume that most safety minded people in the states don't leave the likes of a semi automatic firearm like the AR loaded and within easy reach in their houses (or maybe they do).

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 05:31AM

CollardGreens wrote: »

I want an Apache helicopter, yup, don't have one of those yet. Dang....and I thought an ar would have made me a complete woman.....

(walks away, climbs up latter to continue to paint with sad face....lol)

Lets face it, who doesn't want an apache

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 06:03AM

StinkyMunkey here's the link and a snip-it of part of the link to the shooting. She DID shoot him in the face but he still got somewhat away, least away from her, lol. Hope the link works, it's my first time trying one on this site. BTW, she also saved her two 9yo twin girls too.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/06/georgia-mom-home-alone-with-kids-shoots-ex-con-intruder/

“He opens the closet door and finds himself staring down the barrel of a .38 revolver,” Walton County Sheriff Joe Chapman told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

The woman fired six bullets, five of which hit Paul Ali Slater in the face and neck area, Chapman said. But Slater, who has arrests dating to 2008 and was released from jail in August, was still conscious.

“The guy’s face down, crying,” the sheriff said. The woman told him to stay down or she’d shoot again.

While down, the woman and her children ran to a neighbor’s house, and the injured intruder made it out of the home and into his car, the paper reported.

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 06:09AM

CollardGreens wrote: »

StinkyMunkey here's the link and a snip-it of part of the link to the shooting. She DID shoot him in the face but he still got somewhat away, least away from her, lol. Hope the link works, it's my first time trying one on this site. BTW, she also saved her two 9yo twin girls too.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/06/georgia-mom-home-alone-with-kids-shoots-ex-con-intruder/

“He opens the closet door and finds himself staring down the barrel of a .38 revolver,” Walton County Sheriff Joe Chapman told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

The woman fired six bullets, five of which hit Paul Ali Slater in the face and neck area, Chapman said. But Slater, who has arrests dating to 2008 and was released from jail in August, was still conscious.

“The guy’s face down, crying,” the sheriff said. The woman told him to stay down or she’d shoot again.

While down, the woman and her children ran to a neighbor’s house, and the injured intruder made it out of the home and into his car, the paper reported.

The woman should be given a medal tbh, god knows what he had in mind for the family. Nice to hear the woman and daughters where not harmed.

Another Shooting in the U.S..

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