Another Shooting in the U.S..

donvito99 · 23-01-2013 10:37PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm just trying to point out that there's no such thing as "one gun fits all".

We talked about this a while back here. It's my position that you and others could probably think of a gun for every scenario, and once again I find it a sad reflection on society today that people feel the need to own the guns that you have listed to merely live.

I've no problem with hunting rifles. I do know though, that Adam Lanza didn't use a hunting rifle with whatever calibre it is thats legal to kill schoolchildren, nor did the schoolboys at Columbine.

That's not sustainable in any way.

TBH I wouldn't consider hunting to be a sport in the same way that rugby, football or GAA are, in response to your ridiculous ball argument.

Manic Moran · 23-01-2013 10:38PM

I'm just trying to point out that there's no such thing as "one gun fits all".

The closest to this is the most popular selling rifle in the US over the past few years. Popular because it is customisable, modular, capable, versatile, reliable, usable by anyone from ten year old girls to body builders.

The AR-15.

If you are only to have one firearm, that's the one to have. (Fit it with an underslung 12 gauge)

BattleCorp · 23-01-2013 10:39PM

donvito99 wrote: »

You won't be banned from shooting. You're grand.

For now...

This isn't perfect english but what you said above, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

that's why the shooting community here in Ireland get so defensive when people start saying ban this, and ban that in the aftermath of a tragedy.

Because of thinking like that, we have no new centrefire handguns allowed in the country, even though no legally held ones were ever used to commit a crime.

Can you blame us for being so defensive.

Witcher · 23-01-2013 10:42PM

donvito99 wrote: »

is that you can trust the Airsoft forum to come out and bat for guns on boards.

Nobody debating the point here plays airsoft? Myself, Manic, Overheal, Battlecorp, Madsl and others..we're all shooters..or as I like to put it 'people who know what they're talking about'

I used to play airsoft but no longer.

donvito99 · 23-01-2013 10:42PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

This isn't perfect english but what you said above, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

that's why the shooting community here in Ireland get so defensive when people start saying ban this, and ban that in the aftermath of a tragedy.

Because of thinking like that, we have no new centrefire handguns allowed in the country, even though no legally held ones were ever used to commit a crime.

Can you blame us for being so defensive.

No. I'd be worried too if someone tried to take my golfclubs off me, but that won't happen.

What's nice about Ireland is we don't necessarily have a major problem with guns. The level of gangland violence, while appalling, has come down. Our knife culture is also nothing like the UKs.

donvito99 · 23-01-2013 10:44PM

Blay wrote: »

I used to play airsoft but no longer.

Well there's a turnout for the books!

G'night all, wonder if there'll be reports of more dead kids tomorrow morning.

We'll wait and see.

Witcher · 23-01-2013 10:47PM

donvito99 wrote: »

Well there's a turnout for the books!

G'night all, wonder if there'll be reports of more dead kids tomorrow morning.

We'll wait and see.

Real classy...using the death of children as a parting shot.

BattleCorp · 23-01-2013 10:55PM

donvito99 wrote: »

We talked about this a while back here. It's my position that you and others could probably think of a gun for every scenario, and once again I find it a sad reflection on society today that people feel the need to own the guns that you have listed to merely live.

I've no problem with hunting rifles. I do know though, that Adam Lanza didn't use a hunting rifle with whatever calibre it is thats legal to kill schoolchildren, nor did the schoolboys at Columbine.

That's not sustainable in any way.

TBH I wouldn't consider hunting to be a sport in the same way that rugby, football or GAA are, in response to your ridiculous ball argument.

Hang on, you think it's a sad reflection that I enjoy shooting as a hobby? It's a sad reflection that I have several firearms as part of my sport/hobby? Do you think I should feel ashamed because shooting is my sport/hobby?

Should I feel ashamed because I have no criminal record, have done firearms training courses, have done a NRA range safety officer's course, comply with every single regulation that An Garda Siochanna fire at me, have secure storage etc etc and compete in a fully legal sport?

And I don't think that my ball arguement is ridiculous.

Shooting is my sport. I need several different firearms to compete in different competitions.

Quite the same actually as maybe a golfer having several different clubs, or your average household having lots of different type sporting balls lying around the place.

Guns are the equipment needed for my hobby/sport. I use them properly, and safely.

I don't hunt either, but I was just showing how one gun couldn't be used to hunt everything legally.

StinkyMunkey · 23-01-2013 11:10PM

donvito99 wrote: »

No. I'd be worried too if someone tried to take my golfclubs off me, but that won't happen.

What's nice about Ireland is we don't necessarily have a major problem with guns. The level of gangland violence, while appalling, has come down. Our knife culture is also nothing like the UKs.

Gun violence in Ireland is not really on the scale of most countries thank god:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Gun ownership is not on the same scale as other countries, or is the gun type. Regardless of the laws here. Most guns in Ireland are owned by farmers (hunters) and sportsmen. I personally don't know of any people who own a gun for home protection (that's not saying there isn't, I just don't know any of them):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

I've been reliably informed by a couple of members on this forum that, semi automatic firearms can be acquired in Ireland, but again that is not the norm.

In Ireland there is no culture of killing an intruder when they enter your house, and certainly not one of killing people who trespass - "culture" being the big word here, of course there are cases.

Overheal · 23-01-2013 11:18PM

donvito99 wrote: »

Also, how many guns are needed to protect the average American family home?

A lot more when you ban semi automatics..

Overheal · 23-01-2013 11:25PM

donvito99 wrote: »

once again I find it a sad reflection on society today that people feel the need to own the guns that you have listed to merely live.
.

I don't think anybody in this or any other discussion said they needed guns 'to live'. Their ownership however is a right and for many it is an extra layer of security to life and property. Its absence doesn't stop you from living, it simply makes you more vulnerable.

StinkyMunkey · 23-01-2013 11:26PM

Overheal wrote: »

A lot more when you ban semi automatics..

If someone entered your house would you shoot first or warn them?

Do you need a "military style assault" semi automatic firearm to threaten someone. I know faced with any gun I'd stop what I'm doing and leave, I wouldn't care how big it was.

If you are prepared to shoot someone without warning them, 1 bullet will do the trick, unless ofc you wanna make sure and empty a clip/magazine into them!

Witcher · 23-01-2013 11:31PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

If someone entered your house would you shoot first or warn them?

Do you need a "military style assault" semi automatic firearm to threaten someone. I know faced with any gun I'd stop what I'm doing and leave, I wouldn't care how big it was.

If you are prepared to shoot someone without warning them, 1 bullet will do the trick, unless ofc you wanna make sure and empty a clip/magazine into them!

Someone on the thread here said they knew a farmer who confronted 3 guys in the process of robbing him, he pointed his double barrel at them and their reply was..'you only have two shots in that then we'll put a screwdriver through your head'. I don't know about you but in that situation taking two of them down with me wouldn't be good enough..I'd like to live thanks.

StinkyMunkey · 23-01-2013 11:33PM

Blay wrote: »

Someone on the thread here said they knew a farmer who confronted 3 guys in the process of robbing him, he pointed his double barrel at them and their reply was..'you only have two shots in that then we'll put a screwdriver through your head'.

I'd be interested to know what the outcome was.

I'd point the shotgun at the guy who said that and tell him, he is first. Wonder how he would react then?

Thinking about it, I'd take the weight of a shot as a club over a screw driver as well.

Witcher · 23-01-2013 11:37PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what the outcome was.

I'd point the shotgun at the guy who said that and tell him, he is first. Wonder how he would react then?

Thinking about it, I'd take the weight of a shot as a club over a screw driver as well.

What if each of them are armed? You're 3 to 1, no matter who you shoot first..one of them will get you before you break the gun and reload it...especially if you're a farmer who probably uses it once a month if even that, you're in the dark and scared. Reloading isn't an easy thing in that situation..that's why people in the US use pump action shotguns with 6/7 rounds or an AR15 etc.

It's easy to say I'd do X, Y and Z when you're behind a computer...try that when you point a gun at 3 men and they threaten you...that will put the **** up anyone.

Overheal · 23-01-2013 11:40PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

If someone entered your house would you shoot first or warn them?

Do you need a "military style assault" semi automatic firearm to threaten someone. I know faced with any gun I'd stop what I'm doing and leave, I wouldn't care how big it was.

If you are prepared to shoot someone without warning them, 1 bullet will do the trick, unless ofc you wanna make sure and empty a clip/magazine into them!

Why give away the element of surprise; and why assume you will only encounter one attacker; and for the love of god why do you assume one bullet kills? This is quite far from the truth. It can, but when you look at the averages, it takes a lot more than that. Speaking of which what is with every character on Walking Dead having such impeccable and unrealistic aim?

CollardGreens · 23-01-2013 11:42PM

If someone entered your house would you shoot first or warn them?

Do you need a "military style assault" semi automatic firearm to threaten someone. I know faced with any gun I'd stop what I'm doing and leave, I wouldn't care how big it was.

If you are prepared to shoot someone without warning them, 1 bullet will do the trick, unless ofc you wanna make sure and empty a clip/magazine into them!

With the price of ammo no need in waste, I'd hope I'd get them with the first shot.

If they are climbing in my window at night then I'd shoot them and drag them into the home like my grandaddy taught me. No need to get lawyers involved, one criminal is enough :P

StinkyMunkey · 23-01-2013 11:45PM

Blay wrote: »

What if each of them are armed? You're 3 to 1, no matter who you shoot first..one of them will get you before you break the gun and reload it...especially if you're a farmer who probably uses it once a month if even that, you're in the dark and scared. Reloading isn't an easy thing in that situation..that's why people in the US use pump action shotguns with 6/7 rounds or an AR15 etc.

If the three of them are armed, you my friend are screwed, they are not gonna all line up for you to shoot.

Someone breaking into your house with a gun is never gonna end well. Thankfully in Ireland it's not the norm. Burglars generally only want your property and don't want to disturb you (in Ireland anyway). I know a lot of people who have been burgled over the years and not one seen the burglar. Then again I live in Ireland not the states.

Manic Moran · 23-01-2013 11:45PM

If you are prepared to shoot someone without warning them, 1 bullet will do the trick, unless ofc you wanna make sure and empty a clip/magazine into them!

If he's worth shooting once, he's probably worth shooting a second time. Very few times will a first shot cause a stop faster than a second round is fired.

Overheal · 23-01-2013 11:47PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

If the three of them are armed, you my friend are screwed, they are not gonna all line up for you to shoot.
.

Then its a good thing I'm not trying to kill three people with one bullet?

StinkyMunkey · 23-01-2013 11:52PM

Overheal wrote: »

Why give away the element of surprise; and why assume you will only encounter one attacker; and for the love of god why do you assume one bullet kills? This is quite far from the truth. It can, but when you look at the averages, it takes a lot more than that. Speaking of which what is with every character on Walking Dead having such impeccable and unrealistic aim?

I didn't say one bullet would kill - I said do the trick, as in incapacitate them. Real life is not the movies, once you are shot u tend to fall over.

I don't watch the walking dead, so can't comment.

So I assume u would shoot first - using the "why give away the element of surprise" to base that assumption.

I could have 10 guys break into my house, once I start waving that gun around, self preservation kicks in. Burglars maybe be scumbags, but they ain't brain dead!

StinkyMunkey · 23-01-2013 11:54PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

If he's worth shooting once, he's probably worth shooting a second time. Very few times will a first shot cause a stop faster than a second round is fired.

Thanks for proving the mentality that is the reason I don't agree with American gun laws.

CollardGreens · 23-01-2013 11:56PM

Then its a good thing I'm not trying to kill three people with one bullet?

If that were the case, then I think a double barrel shotgun would be a good first start to slow 3 down at once, then go for the rifle with a .308, 120 grain and knock them back into the street....well, what's left of em.

StinkyMunkey · 23-01-2013 11:59PM

Overheal wrote: »

Then its a good thing I'm not trying to kill three people with one bullet?

I'd not like to knock on your door on a dark stormy night looking to use the phone.

You obviously have already decided that the outcome of a house break in is decided and lethal force must be used. And that your gun must always be bigger than the intruders. Assuming there is always multiple burglars that are always armed and prepared for a "show down at the ok coral".

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 12:00AM

I could have 10 guys break into my house, once I start waving that gun around, self preservation kicks in. Burglars maybe be scumbags, but they ain't brain dead!

Stinky that's not very smart. One never "waves a gun around". If you take classes you will learn that you NEVER take out a gun unless you plan on using it. And you shoot to kill, because if you just mess them up and they get an evil lawyer you may end up supporting them the rest of your/their life. That is what is taught in the shooting classes where I come from.

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 12:01AM

CollardGreens wrote: »

If that were the case, then I think a double barrel shotgun would be a good first start to slow 3 down at once, then go for the rifle with a .308, 120 grain and knock them back into the street....well, what's left of em.

According to some people it's hard to hit the side of a barn with a shotgun.

Would be my weapon of choice though, I'd have to be standing on my head, with one eye closed to miss with one in my house. But then again, my house is only a regular three bed semi.

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 12:06AM

CollardGreens wrote: »

Stinky that's not very smart. One never "waves a gun around". If you take classes you will learn that you NEVER take out a gun unless you plan on using it. And you shoot to kill, because if you just mess them up and they get an evil lawyer you may end up supporting them the rest of your/their life. That is what is taught in the shooting classes where I come from.

I did mean "waving around" as in pointing it at a group who enter my house to burgle it.

I ofc wouldn't walk out into the street waving one around, I've no intention of going to jail.

Shoot to kill - is that aim for the centre mass, while emptying ones clip/magazine?

Guess it doesn't pay to be a burglar in the states. Seems its a very dangerous profession!

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 12:10AM

CollardGreens wrote: »

With the price of ammo no need in waste, I'd hope I'd get them with the first shot.

If they are climbing in my window at night then I'd shoot them and drag them into the home like my grandaddy taught me. No need to get lawyers involved, one criminal is enough :P

I like your chain of thought, but would you finish them off once in the house?

CollardGreens · 24-01-2013 12:20AM

First, leave the magazines alone! This goes to show (and it's not your fault) that without information on a subject that the public is mislead. A semi ar .22 can shoot faster but leaves a small hole in somebody that will bounce around, but not always kill. A good rifle with the right ammo and it takes only ONE bullet to do the job (i.e. leave a big hole) at 10+ yards.

People have told y'all that, but the magazine subject keeps getting brought up as the killer gun when some others can do more damage without looking so scary.

A pitt bull can be the sweetest dog in the world whereas a small fluffy poodle can tear up your legs, judge not least ye be judged!

StinkyMunkey · 24-01-2013 12:26AM

CollardGreens wrote: »

First, leave the magazines alone! This goes to show (and it's not your fault) that without information on a subject that the public is mislead. A semi ar .22 can shoot faster but leaves a small hole in somebody that will bounce around, but not always kill. A good rifle with the right ammo and it takes only ONE bullet to do the job (i.e. leave a big hole) at 10+ yards.

People have told y'all that, but the magazine subject keeps getting brought up as the killer gun when some others can do more damage without looking so scary.

A pitt bull can be the sweetest dog in the world whereas a small fluffy poodle can tear up your legs, judge not least ye be judged!

I don't myself think that clip/magazine size really matters. If a guy goes into a school with a hand gun and multiple rounds, he is gonna do a lot of damage by the times the authorities arrive.

But I myself think a semi automatic will enable him/her to do more because of the high rate of fire.

Lets face it, guns and schools don't mix, whether its an AR, starter pistol or air rifle.

Another Shooting in the U.S..

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