A 56-year-old British woman has been sentenced to death in Indonesia for drugs

davet82 · 22-01-2013 12:14PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

But why shouldn't people take drugs? You should be allowed take them if you want. The problem is conservatism and religion etc. I know things wont change, and I guess you should try to respect other countries laws, but it doesn't make them right.

Because i said so!

Look i dont have a problem with people smoking weed (i dont do it myself) but heroin is a scourge on our society and should remain illegal. Unfortunately for other drugs like ecstacy, is that that it will remain illegal because sometimes you have to protect stupid people from themselves and if our drinking is anything to go by, most people wouldn't be able to handle it and fcuk it up for everyone else my abusing it

seamus · 22-01-2013 12:14PM

When I say "kill the demand", I mean the demand for illegal drugs rather than legal ones. If you make illegal drugs legal, then 99% of people will buy them legally and the demand for illegal drugs is killed.

BraziliaNZ · 22-01-2013 12:16PM

davet82 wrote: »

Because i said so!

Look i dont have a problem with people smoking weed (i dont do it myself) but heroin is a scourge on our society and should remain illegal. Unfortunately for other drugs like ecstacy, is that that it will remain illegal because sometimes you have to protect stupid people from themselves and if our drinking is anything to go by, most people wouldn't be able to handle it and fcuk it up for everyone else my abusing it

But this could apply to everything. Everything kill us really. Bad food, booze, etc. I think at this stage we all know the war on drugs will be endless and can never work, other avenues must be explored. I don't really care though, as it's so available anyway that everyone can get anything whenever they want, at least where I live.

davet82 · 22-01-2013 12:16PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

But why kill the demand? I know countless amounts of people who imbibe and they live normal lives. It's recreational most of the time for most people.

i know countless number of people who abuse drugs. When soceity learns to handle alcohol with all the money it costs our state particularly in health care then we should consider legalising the rest.

I know drugs are easy to get but when you make them easier and socially acceptable more people will do them and the more problems we'll have.

Dravokivich · 22-01-2013 12:17PM

hyperborean wrote: »

Alway gives me a giggle when the kids learn new words,

This is after hours, you want to pretend you are clever go play in Politics or you could actually put some thought into the sentense of death being carried out on someone for being a drugs mule!

Were does it end? do we kill the users as well?

He used it correctly and then you go over the top and push more straw into your posts. Are you trying to prove him right?

hollster2 · 22-01-2013 12:18PM

I was looking on the sky website apparently a psychologist is saying she had history of mental illness.

she has said also herself that she was set up by a drug trafficker who threatned her and her children if she didnt do it!

davet82 · 22-01-2013 12:19PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

But this could apply to everything. Everything kill us really. Bad food, booze, etc. I think at this stage we all know the war on drugs will be endless and can never work, other avenues must be explored. I don't really care though, as it's so available anyway that everyone can get anything whenever they want, at least where I live.

sometimes you just have to draw a line, it really is a case of some people are ruining it for the rest of us but is just the way it has be for now imo

crockholm · 22-01-2013 12:21PM

seamus wrote: »

When I say "kill the demand", I mean the demand for illegal drugs rather than legal ones. If you make illegal drugs legal, then 99% of people will buy them legally and the demand for illegal drugs is killed.

I lived in the Netherlands for a while and as much as people used the cafe system there, the amount of drug dealers selling exactly what was in the shop and more was staggering, not disagreeing with your point,merely adding what I witnessed in a more "open" country

hyperborean · 22-01-2013 12:22PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

He used it correctly and then you go over the top and push more straw into your posts. Are you trying to prove him right?

Haha, here comes the cavalry, I was wondering what side of the (bed)fense you would come out on....

Another internet hardman happy to see a person get dead for being a drug mule, the same hard man will be telling us next week that drug are GOOD mkay

irishconvert · 22-01-2013 12:24PM

hyperborean wrote: »

Haha, here comes the cavalry, I was wondering what side of the (bed)fense you would come out on....

Another internet hardman happy to see a person get dead for being a drug mule, the same hard man will be telling us next week that drug are GOOD mkay

Oh give it a rest with your stupid "internet hardman" and "internet warrior" posts.

seamus · 22-01-2013 12:26PM

hyperborean wrote: »

Another internet hardman happy to see a person get dead for being a drug mule, the same hard man will be telling us next week that drug are GOOD mkay

I think you're misreading most people's posts.

It's possible to be pro-drugs, while at the same time calling someone an idiot for trying to smuggle drugs into a country notorious for its harsh anti-drugs penalties. I haven't seen many posts saying, "She's drug-smuggling scum and deserves to die", just a lot of people without much sympathy for her because her actions were monumentally dumb.

xwave7000 · 22-01-2013 12:26PM

hyperborean wrote: »

Haha, here comes the cavalry, I was wondering what side of the (bed)fense you would come out on....

Another internet hardman happy to see a person get dead for being a drug mule, the same hard man will be telling us next week that drug are GOOD mkay

I'm trying to figure out whether you actually have a point to argue?? Or are you simply trolling...:eek:

Dravokivich · 22-01-2013 12:33PM

hyperborean wrote: »

Haha, here comes the cavalry, I was wondering what side of the (bed)fense you would come out on....

Another internet hardman happy to see a person get dead for being a drug mule, the same hard man will be telling us next week that drug are GOOD mkay

I'm not rolling in on any horse blowing through my trumpet. Or trying to be defensive of the other guy who countered your earlier post. I was both questioning and lampooning what you had posted as it appeared to be a contradiction.

I wouldn't put myself forward as much of a hard man, but I'd be thinking as others mentioned earlier, that one shouldn't go breaking the law in other countries, especially when their level of sentencing is so extreme. My comment about executing her myself was an off the cuff remark to demonstrate exhaustion from hearing and reading so many stories of this kind.

Regarding illicit drug use, It's never been one to display any tolerance of in general on these boards. I doubt I ever will either. And that'd be off boards as well.

mmmmmmmmmmmmkay
?

Madam_X · 22-01-2013 12:42PM

The woman has said she was under extreme coercion which drove her to do this, but let's not let that get in the way of a good auld session of "I'll show everyone how no-nonsense and hardline I am."

It has been documented that dangerous gangs force people to be their mules. However, the chance to say "Well I've no sympathy for her" and derivatives thereof is too good an opportunity for some to pass up.

seanmacc wrote: »

She won't be executed.

Apparently they haven't executed anyone over there in years. She'll most probably end up on death row for the rest of her life though.

Christ, I'd rather be dead.

xwave7000 wrote: »

Not for you or me to decide - I'm not going to argue about the death penalty in another country. Fact is it's in place. End of.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Who are you to dictate to another country and another culture what approach they should take towards drugs? What an arrogant opinion that is.

You are not the censorship squad. People can criticise the death penalty if they want.

Dravokivich wrote: »

Give me the gun, the lethal injection or the trip switch for the electric chair. I'd execute her myself.

Why?

irishconvert wrote: »

Why do you consider drug smugling less serious than murder or rape?

Because in this instance, it is.

Do you not realise how many people's lives are destroyed by drugs, how many families are torn apart, how may crimes are comitted by drug addicts, how many people are murdered by drug dealing gangs? People involved in the distribution of class A drugs do an unbelieveable amount of damage to our society. Anyone involved in this business deserves the death penalty.

Lol, "deserves the death penalty" - how moderate of you.

Re the rest of what you say: really depends on the drug, the quantity, the circumstances of those who will be buying it. E.g. hash ain't heroin.

bucketybuck · 22-01-2013 12:52PM

Madam_X wrote: »

The woman has said she was under extreme coercion which drove her to do this, but let's not let that get in the way of a good auld session of "I'll show everyone how no-nonsense and hardline I am."

Well thats ok then. She was coerced, let her out immediately.

Even if she was coerced, and thats a big if for something with no evidence, I would imagine that these countries make the punishments so harsh so as to make people think twice even in the face of coercion. Letting her go simply because she claimed coercion would negate any effect of that, so I doubt she can really use it as a mitigating factor.

Its a black and white case folks. Indonesia does not care whether you were made to do it, whether you forgot about a baggie in your back pocket, or whether you really thought it was talcum powder. You bring drugs into their country and they will come down on you like a ton of bricks. Thats how it is.

Biggins · 22-01-2013 12:53PM

She was NO innocent woman by any means. A KNOWN persistent drug seller. Ye reap what you sow - and she sowed many a time. Now she is playing the all innocent because of her sons (one of whom has just been released from prison for aggravated violent burglary) - what a pathetic excuse. If things was that so called bad, they all could have moved back to England and sought protection to boot.

Her excuses holds no water - just lies!

The woman has said she was under extreme coercion. She in her defence could say all she wanted - if I was in her position, I would too.

The Times adds the following detail:

...the panel had decided on the maximum sentence for a number of reasons, including Sandiford’s convoluted evidence during her trial.

Despite Sandiford’s protestations of innocence, a writer with extensive links within the Bali drugs world told The Times that she was a well-known drug dealer on the island.
“Lindsay was known to traffic hashish into the island,” said Kathryn Bonella, whose new book Snowing in Bali examines in detail the tawdry world of narcotics dealers. “She used to bring it in from India and sell it on to one of my contacts, but had recently moved into cocaine,” she said.
Ms Bonella added: “I know a number of big Western drug dealers who fled the island when they found out that she had been busted and was turning rat [co-operating with police].”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3664527.ece

BraziliaNZ · 22-01-2013 12:53PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats how it is.

Yeah, we're aware of how stupid their laws are, and we're discussing them. I believe in rational and logical laws, this is why I am irked by this poor woman's plight. She's an idiot yes, but no one should be killed because of recreational drug handling.

xwave7000 · 22-01-2013 12:54PM

Madam_X wrote: »

The woman has said she was under extreme coercion which drove her to do this, but let's not let that get in the way of a good auld session of "I'll show everyone how no-nonsense and hardline I am."

It has been documented that dangerous gangs force people to be their mules. However, the chance to say "Well I've no sympathy for her" and derivatives thereof is too good an opportunity for some to pass up.

Christ, I'd rather be dead.

You are not the censorship squad. People can criticise the death penalty if they want.

Why?

Because in this instance, it is.

Lol, "deserves the death penalty" - how moderate of you.

Re the rest of what you say: really depends on the drug, the quantity, the circumstances of those who will be buying it. E.g. hash ain't heroin.

What exactly am I trying to censor? Arguing a mundane point about another country's laws is redundant, so get off your high horse

xwave7000 · 22-01-2013 12:56PM

Biggins wrote: »

She was NO innocent woman by any means. A KNOWN persistent drug seller. Ye reap what you sow - and she sowed many a time. Now she is playing the all innocent because of her sons (one of whom has just been released from prison for aggravated violent burglary) - what a pathetic excuse. If things was that so called bad, they all could have moved back to England and sought protection to boot.

Her excuses holds no water - just lies!

The woman has said she was under extreme coercion. She in her defence could say all she wanted - if I was in her position, I would too.

Where are you basing your allegations about the woman? Links?? Or is it just more internet hearsay?

Cienciano · 22-01-2013 12:58PM

folan wrote: »

thats a hard line on drugs. wonder if Indonesia is winning the war on drugs?

Sean Moncrieff was talking about it before, he said he landed in Singapore (it's even more strict there) and he said to the taxi driver who was bringing him to the hotel "It's strict on drugs here, isn't it?". Taxi driver said "Drugs? you want drugs? I'll get you drugs, what do you want"
Low crime rate there mind you

Biggins · 22-01-2013 01:03PM

xwave7000 wrote: »

Where are you basing your allegations about the woman? Links?? Or is it just more internet hearsay?

See above again please!

I also add the further - although it is by NO reason to justify her death - only to challenge the image she now wishes to portray herself as a sweet innocent English woman in retirement years:

Although Sandiford has been described as a “housewife from Gloucestershire” she is bettered remembered in Cheltenham as a “neighbour from Hell”.

Mrs Sandiford was a single mother with two teenaged sons when she moved into a detached rented house on a quiet residential street on the outskirts of the town. The area was not quiet for long after her arrival, according to former neighbours.

One 63-year-old man says he was constantly disturbed by a stream of visitors arriving in the residential street at all hours of the day and night. Others came demanding money she allegedly owed.

He said: “Guys used to turn up in blacked out cars looking for money. They made a lot of racket with their coming and going.

“She gives off the impression that she’s a well-to-do middle-aged woman, but she’s not at all. Her house was burgled because she borrowed money from someone and did not pay it back. From what I remember, they gutted the place. She’s the sort of person you would not want to live next door.”

Other former neighbours claim police were always being called to the family home because of noisy domestic disputes between Ms Sandiford and her off-spring.

Colin Richardson, her neighbour on the other side, said he was glad when the family left. He said: “I’m glad to see the back of her. She was totally the wrong sort of person in this sort of neighbourhood.”

Mrs Sandiford packed up and left six years ago owing rent to the owners. Neighbours said the house was in such a state it took seven months before it could be let again.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3664527.ece

Madam_X · 22-01-2013 01:03PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Well thats ok then. She was coerced, let her out immediately.

Obviously I didn't say that. I just meant it gets ignored by the "I've no sympathy" shouters. Maybe she's lying but if it's true that she was intimidated into carrying out this act, then it's very easy to sneer at her, but most people if they were in her shoes would feel they'd no other choice.

xwave7000 wrote: »

What exactly am I trying to censor? Arguing a mundane point about another country's laws is redundant, so get off your high horse

Oh god that expression - hopefully it will become infractible along with "De peeeceee brigade". Telling people "That's just the way the law is" is like saying "Well that's that, no point discussing it." People can discuss stupid laws if they want, even if that's just the way it is.

Cienciano · 22-01-2013 01:07PM

Biggins wrote: »

See above again please!

I also add the further - although it is by NO reason to justify her death - only to challenge the image she now wishes to portray herself as a sweet innocent English woman in retirement years:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3664527.ece

Does make a bit more sense. What normal woman that you know that's nearly 60 would be able to have the contacts to go to Indonesia to buy a few kg of cocaine? Definitely something dodgy going on

bucketybuck · 22-01-2013 01:07PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Yeah, we're aware of how stupid their laws are, and we're discussing them. I believe in rational and logical laws, this is why I am irked by this poor woman's plight. She's an idiot yes, but no one should be killed because of recreational drug handling.

It suits you to pretend that this was a poor grandmother who got caught with a little weed for personal use, but as per post #107 this is not really the case.

She was a drug dealer. I have little sympathy for drug dealer, whether they are grandmothers or skinheads called Big Mike.

xwave7000 · 22-01-2013 01:08PM

Biggins wrote: »

See above again please!

I also add the further - although it is by NO reason to justify her death - only to challenge the image she now wishes to portray herself as a sweet innocent English woman in retirement years:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3664527.ece

Hearsay and hokum - how do you know these neighbours simply didn't have an agenda against the woman? You don't. Just as I don't know if she was a scumbag. That's third hand information you're using to back up your allegations by the way....:rolleyes:

BraziliaNZ · 22-01-2013 01:09PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

It suits you to pretend that this was a poor grandmother who got caught with a little weed for personal use, but as per post #107 this is not really the case.

She was a drug dealer. I have little sympathy for drug dealer, whether they are grandmothers or skinheads called Big Mike.

I don't care who she is or what her background is, I just think it's deplorable that you can be executed for handling drugs, anywhere in the world.

Biggins · 22-01-2013 01:13PM

Cienciano wrote: »

...What normal woman that you know that's nearly 60 would be able to have the contacts to go to Indonesia to buy a few kg of cocaine? Definitely something dodgy going on

Indeed.
She was no beginner and I would estimate prior experienced in associating with classes of criminals.
Again, not justification to see her put to death but it alone indicates that she is not (a) just someone that could be pushed around and (b) someone that is willing to go to any level and break any serious law to for self-gain - continuously!

The fact is that is more than likely that her sentence will be commuted to life - no foreign nationals has been executed by the country so far in all its years of handing out death sentences for the selling of drugs. No foreigner has yet been executed in Bali.

If she fails in her appeals, a process that may take some years, she may still be granted clemency by Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, the Indonesian Prime Minister.

folan · 22-01-2013 01:16PM

odd part from the BBC article

In another statement read out in court, her son Eliot said he believed his mother was forced into trafficking after a disagreement over rent money she paid on his behalf.

Standman · 22-01-2013 01:20PM

Yes she knew the consequences yes she was very stupid. It doesn't make executing her any less immoral.

Ihatecuddles-old · 22-01-2013 01:22PM

hyperborean wrote: »

get dead

Ha

She knew the risks, unfortunately went through with it anyway.

Some interesting reads about drug traffickers caught and sentenced to long stretches in god awful prisons.
In the shadow of papillon and the damage done.
Off topic but good reads!

A 56-year-old British woman has been sentenced to death in Indonesia for drugs

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