Playoffs 2012

Morrisseeee · 21-01-2013 11:12pm

When you think what the Ravens have achieved this off-season, it's phenomenal !!

Lewis (back from a long layoff) took on the young pretender Luck, then Manning (in his house) and then Brady (in his house) and he came out on top, either he's been extremely lucky or he & that D are doing something out-of-this-world !
/actually maybe the injury gave him a chance to be that little bit fresher for the play-offs.

If you think about those 3 games, 2 things really stand out, their big-plays & their defense, simply superlative.

/looked back at the Denver game, scratches head, how did they do that !!

Syferus · 21-01-2013 11:34pm

While I'd agree somewhat that the big body receivers with speed are the ideal and most valuable receivers in absolute terms Cruz sticks out on that list as he's the most like Welker on the list. I'd rate him above Welker simply because he's way younger and has more room to be productive for years to come.

With Welker it's about proven quality - you could easily get a physically more gifted receiver but when a player is operating as spectacularly in a scheme as he is it's very dangerous to go tampering with a winning formula. I feel a little sorry for him if he ends up having to move to get paid because he's literally done everything asked of him, including making little issue of the franchise tag placed on him in the off-season.

He'd clearly love to stay but few will begrudge him a big pay day at another club.

Itssoeasy · 21-01-2013 11:37pm

Don't know if this picture is here but a first ballot HoF in five years time ?

HigginsJ · 21-01-2013 11:39pm

Syferus wrote: »

While I'd agree somewhat that the big body receivers with speed are the ideal and most valuable receivers in absolute terms Cruz sticks out on that list as he's the most like Welker on the list. I'd rate him above Welker simply because he's way younger and has more room to be productive for years to come.

With Welker it's about proven quality - you could easily get a physically more gifted receiver but when a player is operating as spectacularly in a scheme as he is it's very dangerous to go tampering with a winning formula. I feel a little sorry for him if he ends up having to move to get paid because he's literally done everything asked of him, including making little issue of the franchise tag placed on him in the off-season.

He'd clearly love to stay but few will begrudge him a big pay day at another club.

I said earlier how it would be up to Matt Ryan to elevate whatever TE replaces Gonzales & that it would be a big test for him.

I feel with Brady you could put any decent WR into that system n Brady would make him work. A guy like Amendola (if fit) would be a star with Brady at QB.

Son Of A Vidic · 21-01-2013 11:57pm

I only got to see the game earlier, thanks to the ESB. Very frustrating for a Pats fan, the best offense in the league suddenly couldn't even manage the clock or timeouts. That and lost opportunities pretty much summed up the night. The loss of Gronk once again was critical, he is uncoverable in the redzone and he was really needed against the best red zone defense in the league. So many strange decisions were made. Vereen was awesome and on fire against the Texans and he was totally underutilized last night.

Defensively is was bad enough having a crooked Jones, but the last person we needed to lose was Talib. He brings to the field exactly what the secondary lacks. He makes the plays, competes and can close out top receiving threats. Last night for the TD's, the inability to compete or make a play on the ball in the end zone was all to obvious. So it really is no surprise that our old problems in the secondary cost us the game. But full credit to the Ravens, they're riding the crest of a wave right now and I think their name is on the trophy. And If anyone deserves to go out on a high and get the Hollywood ending it's Ray Lewis.

Red Crow · 22-01-2013 12:08am

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Probably but Belichick puts a value on players and doesn't tend to want to go beyond that.

What about Talib? Surely the Pats need to sort out that secondary. Dennard is a talent but he got beat a lot due to his height. I think that's a major issue with him. You think NE might try and address that in FA. I don't see how Welker fits in if he wants to be paid.

HigginsJ wrote: »

Wes Welker is a fantastic slot receiver (if prone to the odd drop). He is certainly not one of the top 5 WR's in the NFL (not really top 20 if I'm being honest)

He has some critical drops but he's a top 20 WR for me all day long.

taidghbaby · 22-01-2013 12:14am

I think the Pats difficulties on offence hurt their defence last night! This year Brady has been able to put up points and force the opposition to chase the game! The pats then have been able to create a lots of turnovers as the opposition have taken chances!

Flacco never looked unduly under pressure yesterday because IMO he never had a big lead to chase! I'm not saying he would have struggled (he was quality yesterday I thought) but with that run game and his big receivers you need to make the Ravens chase the game!

davyjose · 22-01-2013 1:08am

HigginsJ wrote: »

Wes Welker is a fantastic slot receiver (if prone to the odd drop). He is certainly not one of the top 5 WR's in the NFL (not really top 20 if I'm being honest)

Name 20 better? Seriously, I need a good laugh.

He's top 5 in my book. He's not really prone to the odd drop either. He dropped one last night -- the Super Bowl one was not an easy catch.

Himself and Wayne are the two best route runners in the league IMO. In part due to the diligence of the QBs they've had.

davyjose · 22-01-2013 1:15am

The Guardian wrote: »

I'd personally like to see Brady move and reinvent himself like Manning.
Maybe the jets? or Miami?

Son Of A Vidic · 22-01-2013 1:19am

^ ^ ^

Love it and what an apt response.

Chucky the tree · 22-01-2013 1:32am

Not sure which is crazier, claiming Welker is top 5 or claiming he's not top 20.

eagle eye · 22-01-2013 4:45am

Wes Welker

NFL records

Most seasons with 100+ receptions: 5
Most seasons with 105+ receptions: 5
Most seasons with 110+ receptions: 5
Most seasons with 115+ receptions: 2 (tied with Marvin Harrison and Cris Carter)
Most seasons with 120+ receptions: 2 (tied with Cris Carter)
Most consecutive seasons with 110 receptions: 3
Most games with 10+ receptions: 18 (tied with Andre Johnson)
Most games with 11+ receptions: 12 (tied with Marvin Harrison)
Most games with 12+ receptions: 9
Most games with 13+ receptions: 5
Most games with 15+ receptions: 2 (tied with Jason Witten and Brandon Marshall)
Most games with 10+ receptions in a season: 7 (tied with Andre Johnson)
Fastest receiver to have 500 catches with one team (New England Patriots) (70 games).

In six seasons at the Patriots he has led the league twice in receiving yards for a season, been second twice, 6th and 8th. He has had over 100 catches and 1000 yards in five of the six seasons.

Anybody that claims he is not a top 5 WR in the NFL hasn't a clue.

Chucky the tree · 22-01-2013 5:39am

The only people who think he is a top 5 WR are Patriots fans and Walker himself, everyone else isn't that stupid. There's a reason the Pats won't go all out to keep him.

2009- 2nd yards, 15th TDs.
2010 - 29th yards, 21st TDs
2011 - 2nd yards, 6th TDs
2012 - 8th yards, 34th TDs

Also, what two years has he led the league in receiving yards?

davyjose · 22-01-2013 6:10am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The only people who think he is a top 5 WR are Patriots fans and Walker himself, everyone else isn't that stupid. There's a reason the Pats won't go all out to keep him.

2009- 11th yards, 15th TDs.
2010 - 29th yards, 21st TDs
2011 - 2nd yards, 6th TDs
2012 - 8th yards, 34th TDs

Also, what two years has he led the league in receiving yards?

I'm not a Patriots fan. I think he's top 5.

Think he meant led the league in receptions.

davyjose · 22-01-2013 6:16am

IMO you can't overlook Welker just because he doesn't stretch the field. People look at monsters like Megatron and Fitzgerald and say he doesn't compare physically, but I'm sorry, Welker has been the most important receiver in the league over the last few years.

Welker is a master route runner and always gets open -- his TD last night is a great example of some of the subtle ways he makes life difficult for the Defense. As far as having Tom Brady as his QB helping him, he's been equally helpful to Brady IMO.

DBBacker · 22-01-2013 6:23am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

2009- 11th yards, 15th TDs.
2010 - 29th yards, 21st TDs
2011 - 2nd yards, 6th TDs
2012 - 8th yards, 34th TDs

Not a Pats fan. But Welker has a case to be counted as a Top 5 WR. Actual stats also:

2009- 2nd yards, 15th TDs. Missed 2 1/2 games also.
2010 - 29th yards, 21st TDs
2011 - 2nd yards, 6th TDs
2012 - 8th yards, 34th TDs

Never led the NFL in yards though. Only receptions. Whether people see him as a Top 5 WR or not he would definitely be considered Top 10.

I personally don't believe he is Top 5 but I would consider him one of the Top 10 best WR in the game right now if you count his whole body of work in the NFL.

Donnielighto · 22-01-2013 6:53am

spiralism wrote: »

First place i checked. Closed, didnt seem to be any life in the place on closer inspection.

It was open. I got in 11.30ish lockin till at least 3.30 when i left.

manafana · 22-01-2013 7:16am

Welker top 5 is pushing it hes elite but off my head i think the following are ahead of him:

Calvin J, A.Johnson, B.Marshall, Reggie Wayne, J.Jones, R.White, AJ Green.

But top 10 yes hes up their as good as Harvin, any of packers guys.

Son Of A Vidic · 22-01-2013 9:00am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The only people who think he is a top 5 WR are Patriots fans and Walker himself, everyone else isn't that stupid.

Only Patriots fans? Maybe you should actually read some of the complimentary posts about him here and you might see that a lot are from non-patriot fans. Top 5? Top 20? Who gives a shít because his consistency year in and year out speaks for itself.

Chucky the tree · 22-01-2013 9:31am

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Only Patriots fans? Maybe you should actually read some of the complimentary posts about him here and you might see that a lot are from non-patriot fans. Top 5? Top 20? Who gives a shít because his consistency year in and year out speaks for itself.

Pretty much. Most will agree he's not top 5. I never said he wasn't any good either so I certainly expect complimentary posts about him.

davyjose wrote: »

IMO you can't overlook Welker just because he doesn't stretch the field. People look at monsters like Megatron and Fitzgerald and say he doesn't compare physically, but I'm sorry, Welker has been the most important receiver in the league over the last few years.

Welker is a master route runner and always gets open -- his TD last night is a great example of some of the subtle ways he makes life difficult for the Defense. As far as having Tom Brady as his QB helping him, he's been equally helpful to Brady IMO.

How has he been the most important receiver in the league? Looking at his numbers you can see he struggles to get open in the redzone which I think is a big negative.

Red Crow · 22-01-2013 12:09pm

Does it really matter if he's top 5, top 20? He's been an excellent player for NE. If He values himself as a top 5 WR Then NE won't be keeping him IMO

JaMarcus Hustle · 22-01-2013 3:08pm

Eli Manning wrote: »

Does it really matter if he's top 5, top 20? He's been an excellent player for NE. If He values himself as a top 5 WR Then NE won't be keeping him IMO

You don't have anything to base that on. We franchise tagged him this year, and the franchise tag brings a salary that is the average of the top 5 receiver's salaries in the league. So obviously, yes we do value him as a top 5 receiver. What makes you think we won't offer him a new deal? Money isn't the problem with Welker, it's duration.

Johnny_Fontane · 22-01-2013 3:20pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Wes Welker

NFL records

Most seasons with 100+ receptions: 5

Most seasons with 105+ receptions: 5

Most seasons with 110+ receptions: 5

Most seasons with 115+ receptions: 2 (tied with Marvin Harrison and Cris Carter)

Most seasons with 120+ receptions: 2 (tied with Cris Carter)

Most consecutive seasons with 110 receptions: 3

Most games with 10+ receptions: 18 (tied with Andre Johnson)

Most games with 11+ receptions: 12 (tied with Marvin Harrison)

Most games with 12+ receptions: 9

Most games with 13+ receptions: 5

Most games with 15+ receptions: 2 (tied with Jason Witten and Brandon Marshall)

Most games with 10+ receptions in a season: 7 (tied with Andre Johnson)

Fastest receiver to have 500 catches with one team (New England Patriots) (70 games).

In six seasons at the Patriots he has led the league twice in receiving yards for a season, been second twice, 6th and 8th. He has had over 100 catches and 1000 yards in five of the six seasons.

Anybody that claims he is not a top 5 WR in the NFL hasn't a clue.

incredible.....but no rings...you cant blame the guy, its like van persie, if you're not winning, you move on...

Son Of A Vidic · 22-01-2013 3:21pm

Eli Manning wrote: »

Does it really matter if he's top 5, top 20? He's been an excellent player for NE.

Totally agree with you there. Welker is the first player in NFL history with five 110 catch seasons, and has averaged 112 receptions during his six seasons as a Patriot. Now that's the kind of top quality that no one can argue with.

mongoman · 22-01-2013 3:26pm

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

incredible.....but no rings...you cant blame the guy, its like van persie, if you're not winning, you move on...

Your trying too hard mate.

eagle eye · 22-01-2013 3:32pm

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

incredible.....but no rings...you cant blame the guy, its like van persie, if you're not winning, you move on...

He doesn't want to move on by all accounts. Nothing like Van Persie either, there is no comparison between the NFL where there is a salary cap and soccer where the teams with the most money battle it out year after year for titles.

eagle eye · 22-01-2013 3:35pm

mongoman wrote: »

Your trying too hard mate.

I'm well aware what he is at, just educating him. Maybe he can make a better attempt in the future but somehow I doubt it.

walshb · 22-01-2013 3:44pm

On stats, which is what plays a major part in player evaluation, Welker is top class. He has been one of the best receivers in the NFL over the past 5-6 years or so.

spiralism · 22-01-2013 3:57pm

Donnielighto wrote: »

It was open. I got in 11.30ish lockin till at least 3.30 when i left.

hid it well so, damn it. should have knocked or something i guess

Red Crow · 22-01-2013 4:11pm

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

You don't have anything to base that on. We franchise tagged him this year, and the franchise tag brings a salary that is the average of the top 5 receiver's salaries in the league. So obviously, yes we do value him as a top 5 receiver. What makes you think we won't offer him a new deal? Money isn't the problem with Welker, it's duration.

Well obviously a deal wasn't done last season so he was tagged. I OBVIOUSLY think that NE will offer him a deal, I just don't think it's what Welker will value himself at. He should get a lot of money. As for duration. I think he should look at the duration of his career. There is no way a guy of his talent should be returning. I don't doubt that he probably has no issue with it and he's an excellent returner.

Also money was an issue in the Welker deal. They were bout $4M apart in money not duration. Multiple sources indicate the same. Some say its about the duration. Who knows?

Just because you franchise tag a player doesn't mean you value him as top 5. Cliff Avril was tagged. Was he a top 5 DE last year? Nope. Nothing obvious about it. There are tons of circumstances that come into tagging a player. It's not an obvious ranking.

Playoffs 2012

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