At Least 25,000 Attend Anti-Abortion Vigil

Lingua Franca · 21-01-2013 03:19PM

Well, that's SO much worse than those single issue anti choice groups that don't publish their accounts and try to pretend they're hardly funded from America at all.

You certainly implied that 2.1 million was donated to pro choice groups. That is why we are here, in a thread about abortion, discussing the funding given to a human rights advocacy agency.

VinLieger · 21-01-2013 03:32PM

Ahem....

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/01/21/something-a-bit-loaves-and-fishy-about-this/

Pompey Magnus · 21-01-2013 03:38PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Ahem....

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/01/21/something-a-bit-loaves-and-fishy-about-this/

Well if the Worker's Solidarity Movement used an iphone app developed by the Tea Party Movement to calculate crowd size then it must be true.

Min · 21-01-2013 03:40PM

cycnus wrote: »

Well you certainly cant call me uneducated.

You are implying that education and intelligence are one an the same, that not what I said. and the fact that you deduced from what I said that people who don't share my opinion are uneducated only serves to show how deeply unintelligent you are. I would not say that, because it is not true.

I am implying that if people were more well educated and perhaps had a little more respect for women, they would probably not see a termination to save a woman's life as a bad thing.

One needs a level of intelligence to be educated. I am educated, I am pro-life, where you might just see one life, others see two lives, and each deserving of respect - both the woman and the unborn. So your argument could be used to say if people were more educated on all life they would have respect for both the woman and the unborn human life.

Very few people have a problem with doing what it takes to save a life of a pregnant woman.
You know the Catholic position is as follows and I will use it on the hypothetical woman you used earlier who had cancer.
Both lives should be respected, the pregnant woman should get all the care she needs so her life is preserved - presuming it is not terminal cancer, the baby's life should be respected as a unique life but if the consequences of her treatment leads to the loss of her baby then there was no malicious intent towards the life of the unborn and this is not the same as intentionally killing the unborn.

Min · 21-01-2013 03:43PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Ahem....

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/01/21/something-a-bit-loaves-and-fishy-about-this/

If that was the case (I take the Garda number for the total) then the counter demonstration must have been so small the iPhone app was not able to calculute :P

smash · 21-01-2013 03:44PM

Min wrote: »

I am educated, I am pro-life, where you might just see one life, others see two lives, and each deserving of respect - both the woman and the unborn

So then respect the choice she makes about wanting to have the baby or not.

Lingua Franca · 21-01-2013 03:45PM

There's quite a few media outlets questioning the claimed size of the crowd, and no one can find an official garda number for it.

lazygal · 21-01-2013 03:46PM

Min wrote: »

One needs a level of intelligence to be educated. I am educated, I am pro-life, where you might just see one life, others see two lives, and each deserving of respect - both the woman and the unborn. So your argument could be used to say if people were more educated on all life they would have respect for both the woman and the unborn human life.

Very few people have a problem with doing what it takes to save a life of a pregnant woman.
You know the Catholic position is as follows and I will use it on the hypothetical woman you used earlier who had cancer.
Both lives should be respected, the pregnant woman should get all the care she needs so her life is preserved - presuming it is not terminal cancer, the baby's life should be respected as a unique life but if the consequences of her treatment leads to the loss of her baby then there was no malicious intent towards the life of the unborn and this is not the same as intentionally killing the unborn.

That's all very nice but no one can decide what a pregnant woman can do but her. You can be nice and caring about the cells in the uterus, but they grow bigger, can cause heath problems, even in a very normal pregnancy, and then childbirth brings its own pain and difficulty. So you don't have to have an abortion, you can chose to remain pregnant and birth a child, but why do you think you have the right to take the choice away from other women? How do you feel about the fact abortion is available in Ireland to any woman with the means to travel, but denied to poor women or those unable to travel? I think that's appaling. I don't agree with forced pregnancy and I don't believe in forcing women to birth children they don't want.

VinLieger · 21-01-2013 03:46PM

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Well if the Worker's Solidarity Movement used an iphone app developed by the Tea Party Movement to calculate crowd size then it must be true.

If anyones gonna be good at overestimating a crowd size its the tea party

VinLieger · 21-01-2013 03:54PM

Also this https://twitter.com/funkyderek/status/293322369731268608

philologos · 21-01-2013 03:55PM

Even if it was 15,000 that's a heck of a lot more than 200 surely?

VinLieger · 21-01-2013 03:59PM

philologos wrote: »

Even if it was 15,000 that's a heck of a lot more than 200 surely?

Yes it is and i congratulate them on the turn out even though i disagree with their objective, but all the science and facts is making it look like 25000 is pretty impossible. And still through all the claims that the gardai estimate is 25000 nobody has been able to provide an official gardai confirmation of this number

lazygal · 21-01-2013 03:59PM

philologos wrote: »

Even if it was 15,000 that's a heck of a lot more than 200 surely?

Are the organisers such as Youth Defence and the catholic church lying for the Lord by telling lies about attendance?

maximoose · 21-01-2013 04:00PM

philologos wrote: »

Even if it was 15,000 that's a heck of a lot more than 200 surely?

Why is this a question

ScumLord · 21-01-2013 04:02PM

philologos wrote: »

Even if it was 15,000 that's a heck of a lot more than 200 surely?

It's still a big number, I wonder how big considering the organisation that went into it. Considering my small town had organised free buses it shows they made it as easy as possible for people to get to this vigil. I'd say every church in the country did the same thing. How many of those 15000 are children? They don't really count as they're not giving their own opinion, just saying what mammy tells them to say.

At the end of the day the people of Ireland are asking for abortions in extraordinary circumstances to help prevent deaths. I don't understand how any one can be against that?

Pompey Magnus · 21-01-2013 04:02PM

lazygal wrote: »

So you don't have to have an abortion, you can chose to remain pregnant and birth a child, but why do you think you have the right to take the choice away from other women?

I assume that is a rhetorical question as surely the world and it's mother knows by this stage that reason those who oppose abortion is because they believe that the baby/foetus/collection of cells/parasite, call it what you like, is human and so deserves consideration.

philologos · 21-01-2013 04:06PM

lazygal wrote: »

Are the organisers such as Youth Defence and the catholic church lying for the Lord by telling lies about attendance?

They might be. I don't represent either

Gardai say 25,000. WSM say 15,000. Either way its a heck of a lot more than the pro-choicers could muster.

starlings · 21-01-2013 04:08PM

VinLieger wrote: »

If anyones gonna be good at overestimating a crowd size its the tea party

Quite. Everyone knows it was only the Mad Hatter, the March Hare, the Dormouse and Alice.

Min · 21-01-2013 04:08PM

smash wrote: »

So then respect the choice she makes about wanting to have the baby or not.

We are talking about a life and death issue here.

You are for allowing abortion.
Do you support the death penalty, it is a choice some jurisdictions make. I am against the death penalty for the record.

We have problems in some countries with gendercide, girls being aborted because it is the choice of the mother or parents because they want a boy, should they be respected for the choice they make?
It is said over 200 million men in China will not be able to find a wife because of the choice to kill off so many girls in the womb. These choices have led to women being kidnapped.

In Russia, they are trying to lower the amount of abortions 1 in 2 pregnancies aborted and it is going to lead to a population collapse, these abortions were the choice of the mothers, should their choice be respected.

Some choose to see no consequences that abortion brings, even in England they have discovered more girls are being aborted in some communities given the boy/girl ratio is outside the normal ratios.
This is a choice some make. You might want to respect these choice women makes.

Women who are pregnant need proper care and support. Women who had an abortion need the same but they should never be put in the position where they feel an abortion is the only answer. Men should never pressure a woman into having an abortion as it does happen. A man might view an abortion as a choice to a child he doesn't want, but it shows no respect for the woman or the unborn if it his choice that matters.

It would be nice if we lived in a world where people respected the right to life of all, and have that as a basis for mutual respect and care for all.
We instead live in a world where the intentional killing of human life starts in the womb and for others who made it out of the womb they end up being intentionally killed.
Girls are made out to be inferior through gendercide.
Life is devalued by making life disposable.

Sarky · 21-01-2013 04:10PM

Lying is fine as long as it's for Jesus.

smash · 21-01-2013 04:15PM

VinLieger wrote: »

but all the science and facts is making it look like 25000 is pretty impossible.

Maybe 10,000 of them were pregnant :pac:

starlings · 21-01-2013 04:16PM

smash wrote: »

Maybe 10,000 of them were pregnant :pac:

St.Spodo · 21-01-2013 04:18PM

philologos wrote: »

They might be. I don't represent either

Gardai say 25,000. WSM say 15,000. Either way its a heck of a lot more than the pro-choicers could muster.

Actually the 'March for Savita' had a Garda estimate of 20,000. To be perfectly honest I have my doubts it was quite that high, but it was arranged mere days in advance and not a single free bus ran from anywhere in the country.

My name is URL · 21-01-2013 04:19PM

philologos wrote: »

They might be. I don't represent either

Gardai say 25,000. WSM say 15,000. Either way its a heck of a lot more than the pro-choicers could muster.

But those protesting the other night were doing so in response to legislation the government have already said will be introduced. Why would pro-choicers be out in such numbers too? The only reason would be to counter-demonstrate, and most people probably wouldn't want to give them the time of day.

Besides, people can protest and attempt to grab headlines all they want. None of it matters one iota when popular public opinion is shown to favor abortions in certain cases.

Min · 21-01-2013 04:19PM

lazygal wrote: »

That's all very nice but no one can decide what a pregnant woman can do but her. You can be nice and caring about the cells in the uterus, but they grow bigger, can cause heath problems, even in a very normal pregnancy, and then childbirth brings its own pain and difficulty. So you don't have to have an abortion, you can chose to remain pregnant and birth a child, but why do you think you have the right to take the choice away from other women? How do you feel about the fact abortion is available in Ireland to any woman with the means to travel, but denied to poor women or those unable to travel? I think that's appaling. I don't agree with forced pregnancy and I don't believe in forcing women to birth children they don't want.

I am sure you are happy you were given the choice to live. so you can post your opinion here about other human life who are in a position that we were all in at one stage of our lives.

You do know abortion has been available in Ireland throught eh illegal advice of the Irish Family planning association who were telling their clients on how to smuggle illegal drugs into the country so they could have an abortion, how they shouldn't tell their doctor, which could potentially kill them.
This is what a pro-choice organisation was doing, currently under investigation by the HSE, but you wouldn't hear pro-choice give a squeak about it, even though they were putting the lives of women at risk - it was a pro-life group who discovered this and have potentially saved the life of some woman, given the advice could have killed.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/revealed-the-abortion-advice-that-could-put-lives-at-risk-3276226.html

Pro-choice are not really concerned about the woman, they are concerned about having the choice of having the baby or not.
This is why one sides calls themselves pro-choice and the other pro-life.

ScumLord · 21-01-2013 04:19PM

Min wrote: »

We are talking about a life and death issue here.

You are for allowing abortion.
Do you support the death penalty, it is a choice some jurisdictions make. I am against the death penalty for the record.

We have problems in some countries with gendercide, girls being aborted because it is the choice of the mother or parents because they want a boy, should they be respected for the choice they make?
It is said over 200 million men in China will not be able to find a wife because of the choice to kill off so many girls in the womb. These choices have led to women being kidnapped.

In Russia, they are trying to lower the amount of abortions 1 in 2 pregnancies aborted and it is going to lead to a population collapse, these abortions were the choice of the mothers, should their choice be respected.

So? China and Russia are nothing like Ireland, China are trying to control populations and have half their country living in the most modern cities in the world and the other half living in the dark ages.

It's a nonsense comparison, Irish people like having babies I don't think abortions will become popular here any time soon.

Some choose to see no consequences that abortion brings, even in England they have discovered more girls are being aborted in some communities given the boy/girl ratio is outside the normal ratios.
This is a choice some make. You might want to respect these choice women makes.

I wonder why they make that choice too? Has it anything to do with religious reasonings?

Women who are pregnant need proper care and support.

That's an excellent point, it takes a village to raise a child. What if the woman won't have that? What if she knows her family will turn on her for getting married outside of wedlock? She'll know that not only will she be ruining her life but bringing a child into a world of poverty where that child doesn't get to see it's mother and is hated by their family. (I don't think this happens often in Ireland any more it's just a worst case scenario)

Girls are made out to be inferior through gendercide.

Or by taking serious live changing decisions out of their hands.

I think for the most part you could make abortions completely legal in Ireland and they wouldn't become all that popular.

smash · 21-01-2013 04:23PM

Min wrote: »

Pro-choice are not really concerned about the woman, they are concerned about having the choice of having the baby or not.
This is why one sides calls themselves pro-choice and the other pro-life.

*Cough bullshít *Cough

Sorry about that... something in my throat.

Min · 21-01-2013 04:25PM

smash wrote: »

*Cough bullshít *Cough

Sorry about that... something in my throat.

Really?

Where were the pro-choice people when it came to illegal practices by a pro-choice organisation that was puting the lives of women at risk....???

lazygal · 21-01-2013 04:26PM

Min wrote: »

Pro-choice are not really concerned about the woman, they are concerned about having the choice of having the baby or not.
This is why one sides calls themselves pro-choice and the other pro-life.

Pro life are concerned about foetuses. How do you feel about the fact women with money in Ireland can access safe and legal abortion but poorer women can't? How do you feel about forcing an unwilling women to remain pregnant against her wishes?

Pompey Magnus · 21-01-2013 04:27PM

Min wrote: »

Do you support the death penalty, it is a choice some jurisdictions make. I am against the death penalty for the record.

We have problems in some countries with gendercide, girls being aborted because it is the choice of the mother or parents because they want a boy, should they be respected for the choice they make?

There is also the issue in America where donations are welcomed to go towards providing race specific abortions, of course from the pro life viewpoint as abortion is a positive option for the mother then anyone donating money which will be used to terminate the pregnancy of specifically, say, an African American woman will be doing her, and by extension her community, a great favour instead of maybe, just maybe, using abortion for more nefarious purposes.

At Least 25,000 Attend Anti-Abortion Vigil

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