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Another Shooting in the U.S..

24567…11

Comments

  • #32
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »

    Surely banning murder would be better? Then you stop people being stabbed and beaten to death too.
    Why is there no mass murders in Ireland?


  • #33
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    mark renton wrote: »
    Were talkin about mass murder, strange how this rarely happens without the use of guns?

    usually these people that commit these crimes are a bit soft in the head and if thet didnt have a gun they would probably use a bomb. which these days can be made from items in most peoples homes. plus the media always makes a celebrity out of the suspect and never focuses on the victims which causes the next loony to try murder more than the last guy.


  • #34
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    mark renton wrote: »
    Why is there no mass murders in Ireland?


    there was in the north in the time of the troubles.


  • #35
    PC CDROM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 408 ✭✭PC CDROM


    mark renton wrote: »
    Why is there no mass murders in Ireland?

    eh... there have been?

    Bombs and sh1t


  • #36
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,291 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    mark renton wrote: »
    Why is there no mass murders in Ireland?

    There's no mass murder in Europe on the scale of the US because people can get mental healthcare without re-mortgaging their house for it. Medication to patch over the issue is the answer for a lot of mental problems in the US.


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  • #37
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,247 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Surely banning murder would be better?

    Someone taking the piss?

    In what country in the world is murder allowed?


  • #38
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,291 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Someone taking the piss?

    In what country in the world is murder allowed?

    You seem to have missed his point, he's showing that banning things doesn't stop people doing it.


  • #39
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    I know plenty of people in Ireland who would have the potential to do similar if there was the same free availability of guns here. I think you may be overestimating the mental healthcare in this country.


  • #40
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    mark renton wrote: »
    I know plenty of people in Ireland who would have the potential to do similar if there was the same free availability of guns here. I think you may be overestimating the mental healthcare in this country.



    i think you may be underestimating the number of legally owned firearms in this country


  • #41
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    Blay wrote: »

    You seem to have missed his point, he's showing that banning things doesn't stop people doing it.
    No it wouldnt stop it, however it would certainly impact the frequency.


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  • #42
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,291 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    mark renton wrote: »
    I know plenty of people in Ireland who would have the potential to do similar if there was the same free availability of guns here. I think you may be overestimating the mental healthcare in this country.

    You can get help here no matter what your means..in the US if you don't have money for healthcare of any kind..too bad.

    This illustrates the situation well;

    http://jpegy.com/images/uploads/2013/01/America-Logic-on-health-care.jpg


  • #43
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    tommyboy26 wrote: »



    i think you may be underestimating the number of legally owned firearms in this country
    There is no comparison between the availability of guns here and in US, no matter how much spin people on here use.


  • #44
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    mark renton wrote: »
    No it wouldnt stop it, however it would certainly impact the frequency.


    the blood and the cripts have been murdering each other in the thousands in LA for years but no one is crying out for gun law changes when there murdered.... and they dont use legally owned firearms... the fact that they cant get them legally doesnt seem to be stopping them????


  • #45
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,291 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    mark renton wrote: »
    There is no comparison between the availability of guns here and in US, no matter how much spin people on here use.

    People are going on about evil semi auto rifles etc. when those exact rifles are being licenced in Ireland. People don't know what's going on in their own country but they have all the answers for the US situation.

    People say 'well here you can only have a shotgun...not that dangerous'..if an active shooter went into a school here even with only a double barrel shotgun they could kill a lot of people with it before they were stopped because the guards aren't armed here and to get a detective/RSU/ERU out could be 20/30 mins.

    But it's never happened because people with mental problems don't get firearms here, in the US Diane Feinstein etc. would rather take them off everybody than to address the problems in US society.

    Shooters in the US don't seem to be against more background checks etc. but the 'ban this, ban that, make mags hold 10 rounds' crap doesn't solve anything..they're planning to clamp down on 'assult weapons' and mags holding more than 10 rounds but they're grandfathering existing rifles and magazines..so there's 0 stopping someone buying existing rifles or 30 round mags privately after the ban. They're allowing that because they know themselves these items aren't the problem when you get right down to it..all they are doing with that is appeasing the anti gun crowd because it's cheaper than making sure 300m people have proper healthcare.


  • #46
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    tommyboy26 wrote: »
    the blood and the cripts have been murdering each other in the thousands in LA for years but no one is crying out for gun law changes when there murdered.... and they dont use legally owned firearms... the fact that they cant get them legally doesnt seem to be stopping them????

    crips tommy, get it right - and we are not talking about gang criminality here, these people will kill each other regardless of choice of weapon.

    In the cases where people randomly mass murder people for no apparent reason, other than losing the head, these cases always seem to involve the free availability of guns. If the guns were not available at the time of losing the head would so many people be murdered?


  • #47
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    mark renton wrote: »
    crips tommy, get it right - and we are not talking about gang criminality here, these people will kill each other regardless of choice of weapon.

    In the cases where people randomly mass murder people for no apparent reason, other than losing the head, these cases always seem to involve the free availability of guns. If the guns were not available at the time of losing the head would so many people be murdered?

    yes because they would probaby use something else


  • #48
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    tommyboy26 wrote: »
    yes because they would probaby use something else

    Other than paramilitary, serial killers or terrorism, can you give an example


  • #49
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    mark renton wrote: »
    Other than paramilitary, serial killers or terrorism, can you give an example


    how can you include serial killers in that list?

    they are average people with a few screws lose just like people that murder in schools


  • #50
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    tommyboy26 wrote: »
    how can you include serial killers in that list?

    they are average people with a few screws lose just like people that murder in schools

    Because they tend to kill people over long periods of time, we are talking about once off killing sprees here due to the open availability of guns.


  • #51
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    mark renton wrote: »
    Other than paramilitary, serial killers or terrorism, can you give an example


    in japan guns aren't freely open and in 2001 a man went into a school and stabbed 8 kids dead and seriously injured 13 more kids and 2 teachers

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre


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  • #52
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,291 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Engaging in these threads is just p1ssing against the wind..you could write a 10 paragraph post outlining the societal factors for these type of shootings and all the anti gun people have to say is 'Its teh gunz' and they've won because it appeals to the masses that read here.


  • #53
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    tommyboy26 wrote: »
    in japan guns aren't freely open and in 2001 a man went into a school and stabbed 8 kids dead and seriously injured 13 more kids and 2 teachers

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

    2001 the most recent you could find tommy?

    Either these events dont happen very often or you havent put much effort into looking on the Internet - which is it?


  • #54
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    mark renton wrote: »
    2001 the most recent you could find tommy?

    Either these events dont happen very often or you havent put much effort into looking on the Internet - which is it?



    didnt put much effort into it:D:D:D:D


  • #55
    tommyboy26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭tommyboy26


    Blay wrote: »
    Engaging in these threads is just p1ssing against the wind..you could write a 10 paragraph post outlining the societal factors for these type of shootings and all the anti gun people have to say is 'Its teh gunz' and they've won because it appeals to the masses that read here.


    totally agree with you


  • #56
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    Blay wrote: »
    Engaging in these threads is just p1ssing against the wind..you could write a 10 paragraph post outlining the societal factors for these type of shootings and all the anti gun people have to say is 'Its teh gunz' and they've won because it appeals to the masses that read here.

    Yes you could write 20 paragraphs about crazy people, however you would completely miss the point, that is that if there arent so many guns lying around when people flip, then so many people dont get killed.

    It aint that complicated to overkill with 10 paragraphs.


  • #57
    garv123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭garv123


    mark renton wrote: »
    I didnt say ban murder, I suggested to ban guns. We have a ban on guns here. In this country there is also a black market for guns. Criminals usually kill each other with these guns, we do not have mass murders of innocent people. By my calculation it seems the open availability of guns contributes to mass murders of these innocent people.

    220,000 Licensed legally held guns in Ireland..

    :pac::pac:


    100,000 Illegally held ones according to the recent tv3 programme.


  • #58
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,291 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    mark renton wrote: »
    Yes you could write 20 paragraphs about crazy people, however you would completely miss the point, that is that if there arent so many guns lying around when people flip, then so many people dont get killed.

    It aint that complicated to overkill with 10 paragraphs.

    Adam Lanza had already flipped, he decided upon a course of action and carried it out. The rifle didn't whisper into his ear every night telling him to do it...some body who would slaughter kids in a classroom will exercise their capacity for violence somehow, tougher laws won't make him think 'This will be hard..I know, instead I'll become a doctor and be a family man'

    The availability of guns meant little in Adam Lanza's case anyway because they weren't even his firearms..he took them from his mother..licencing of firearms etc. wouldn't have averted that particular incident.

    Let's say she had needed a licence to get them and she had to pay a thousand dollars, wait 2 years and give up a kidney to get them and she did all that..none of that would have stopped him beating her over the head and taking them from her...either way he was getting them.


  • #59
    Wossack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,921 ✭✭✭Wossack


    Blay wrote: »
    Let's say she had needed a licence to get them and she had to pay a thousand dollars, wait 2 years and give up a kidney to get them and she did all that..none of that would have stopped him beating her over the head and taking them from her...either way he was getting them.

    since we're talking hypotheticals - how about she wasnt able to get a license at all?


  • #60
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,291 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Wossack wrote: »
    since we're talking hypotheticals - how about she wasnt able to get a license at all?

    There's nothing that would have stopped him getting one illegally in that case.

    Do people honestly think that the Adam Lanza's, James Holmes' etc. of this world would turn their hatred on it's head and become functioning members of society if firearms weren't available? People will do harm to other people..that should be number 1 on the list of truths about humanity.

    I've no doubt people on this forum would take back every legally held firearm in Ireland if they had the power despite them rarely being used to shoot another person and when they are it's usually a burglar who gets hit. In 1972 the gov here rounded up firearms under a Temporary Custody Order for fear of the IRA getting there hands on them...the IRA..they didn't want whatever rifles farmers etc. had here and in 2008 Dermot Ahern closed licencing of CF pistols despite not 1 legally held one ever having been stolen or used in a crime here. Firearms laws only punish those who care about laws...these school shooters are going to commit 1st degree murder..punishable by death in most states in the US...they don't give a crap about the risk of getting a few years for having an illegally held firearm if they're caught before the act is carried out.

    I'm not against background, medical record checks etc.....probably because I had to consent to them to have my own firearms and I don't think US shooters and the NRA are against it either but banning a model or type of gun is fcking idiotic.


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  • #61
    Killer Wench
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭Killer Wench


    I think it is a huge disservice to lump this shooting together with the Sandy Hook tragedy; there may have been multiple victims, but this particular incident most likely involves a teenager killing his own family.


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