At Least 25,000 Attend Anti-Abortion Vigil

Artful_Badger · 20-01-2013 08:24PM

Holy rollers gathering en masse isnt really indicative of the wider beliefs in the country though. I know its not necessarily a religious topic but there is a large contingent with those beliefs as default from religion.

I think though, that there are enough people out there who can look at it objectively to make it a much closer debate. I'd like to see this brought out as a serious topic with the church nonsense peddlers kept well out of it.

crockholm · 20-01-2013 08:26PM

lazygal wrote: »

Yes. Its her uterus not mine or anyone else's. Are you OK with women choosing to control their reproductive system?

really? ok then, I guess we have different ways of looking at it.

Artful_Badger · 20-01-2013 08:27PM

crockholm wrote: »

really? ok then, I guess we have different ways of looking at it.

What way do you look at it ?

lazygal · 20-01-2013 08:28PM

crockholm wrote: »

really? ok then, I guess we have different ways of looking at it.

What's your view then? Do women have the right to control what's in their uteruses or not?

crockholm · 20-01-2013 08:30PM

The_Artful_Badger wrote: »

What way do you look at it ?

differently,wish things could have had a better outcome

Artful_Badger · 20-01-2013 08:31PM

lazygal wrote: »

I think that's a bit unfair. So she had three abortions, how is that anyone's business but hers?

Think he meant its a bit idiotic to get into that position so often so young. The abortion isnt the idiot bit, its the unprotected sex that got her pregnant three times in the two years that she was of consensual age.

My name is URL · 20-01-2013 08:32PM

lazygal wrote: »

I think that's a bit unfair. So she had three abortions, how is that anyone's business but hers?

If what the guy says is true; that his friends niece is 18 and has already had 3 abortions, then no, it's not unfair to say she's an idiot.

If an 18 year old has had their stomach pumped 3 times due to their irresponsibility and poor decision making then they'd be called idiots too, and I doubt anyone would defend them by saying 'it's their own business'.

mikom · 20-01-2013 08:33PM

crockholm wrote: »

differently,wish things could have had a better outcome

A dose of cop-on is what that young lady needs.
Lining herself up for an avoidable medical procedure........... not once, not twice, but three times.

padd b1975 · 20-01-2013 08:33PM

The_Artful_Badger wrote: »

I'd like to see this brought out as a serious topic with the church nonsense peddlers kept well out of it.

How many of the estimated 25,000 were clergy??

Quite a small proportion I would imagine.

krudler · 20-01-2013 08:34PM

lazygal wrote: »

I think that's a bit unfair. So she had three abortions, how is that anyone's business but hers?

I'm as pro choice as you like, but c'mon, three abortions at 18? thats lack of responsibility and its exactly why pro-lifers use the "ohh everyone will start having abortions as contraception" argument. If you're not mature enough to use contraception properly then you probably shouldn't be having sex.

lazygal · 20-01-2013 08:34PM

The_Artful_Badger wrote: »

Think he meant its a bit idiotic to get into that position so often so young. The abortion isnt the idiot bit, its the unprotected sex that got her pregnant three times in the two years that she was of consensual age.

Well she didn't get herself pregnant. Maybe she was raped. Maybe there was a foetal abnormality. Maybe she thinks better to abort than have an unwanted child. Why should anyone else's views come into it?

crockholm · 20-01-2013 08:35PM

lazygal wrote: »

What's your view then? Do women have the right to control what's in their uteruses or not?

where i agree with abortions are outlined in post #54, I think

dvpower · 20-01-2013 08:35PM

lazygal wrote: »

Yes. Its her uterus not mine or anyone else's. Are you OK with women choosing to control their reproductive system?

I doubt there is more than a tiny number of people who would like to have an unrestricted abortion regime here (I.e abortion on demand at any stage of pregnancy), so I'd say people in general don't want women to have full control over their reproductive system.
If the woman in question presented herself for an abortion at, say, 38 weeks, she would most likely be refused, and the vast majority of people would agree with the refusal.

maringo · 20-01-2013 08:37PM

Someone's telling porky pies. 10,000 - 12,000 attendance according to the Gardai who I presume are fairly expert in this field.

padd b1975 · 20-01-2013 08:38PM

lazygal wrote: »

I think that's a bit unfair. So she had three abortions, how is that anyone's business but hers?

Its there business to educate her on various forms of contraception as she is obviously too thick to do this for herself.

I wonder how often has she been tested for STDs.

Artful_Badger · 20-01-2013 08:38PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

How many of the estimated 25,000 were clergy??

Quite a small proportion I would imagine.

I wasnt just referring to the protest I was referring to the entire debate. And you cant deny the church doesnt throw its weight around when topics like these arise. The church merely stating its position is a call to take a stance predetermined for people and not of their own. How many of those 25,000 people go to mass and do what the church tell them ? Quite a large proportion I would imagine.

Artful_Badger · 20-01-2013 08:42PM

lazygal wrote: »

Well she didn't get herself pregnant. Maybe she was raped. Maybe there was a foetal abnormality. Maybe she thinks better to abort than have an unwanted child. Why should anyone else's views come into it?

Its unlikely she was given the op knows this person and is using the situation in his argument of pro life.

Peoples views will always come into it as we all have a social responsibility. Getting knocked up knowing you dont want a child (whice she knew after the first two times) is idiotic.

padd b1975 · 20-01-2013 08:42PM

maringo wrote: »

Someone's telling porky pies. 10,000 - 12,000 attendance according to the Gardai who I presume are fairly expert in this field.

Link??

crockholm · 20-01-2013 08:44PM

lazygal wrote: »

Well she didn't get herself pregnant. Maybe she was raped. Maybe there was a foetal abnormality. Maybe she thinks better to abort than have an unwanted child. Why should anyone else's views come into it?

according to her,nope,just didnt want it, that can be the mentality here, it is not the taboo that it is in Ireland. I wish her the best in the future, good family and all.

padd b1975 · 20-01-2013 08:46PM

The_Artful_Badger wrote: »

How many of those 25,000 people go to mass and do what the church tell them ? Quite a large proportion I would imagine.

I honestly have no idea what the church going habits of 25,000 random people are.

As have you.

I would imagine.;)

lazygal · 20-01-2013 08:46PM

The_Artful_Badger wrote: »

Its unlikely she was given the op knows this person and is using the situation in his argument of pro life.

Peoples views will always come into it as we all have a social responsibility. Getting knocked up knowing you dont want a child (whice she knew after the first two times) is idiotic.

But no one can be pregnant and give birth but her, so to say she has to be pregnant because she had x number of abortions isn't really fair. You're still imposing pregnancy on a woman. Having had a difficult pregnancy and birth myself, I'd never force another woman to be pregnant, regardless of her previous behaviour.

dvpower · 20-01-2013 08:47PM

maringo wrote: »

Someone's telling porky pies. 10,000 - 12,000 attendance according to the Gardai who I presume are fairly expert in this field.

According to the IT, the Gardai are putting it at 25000
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0119/breaking22.html?via=mr

B0jangles · 20-01-2013 08:47PM

dvpower wrote: »

I doubt there is more than a tiny number of people who would like to have an unrestricted abortion regime here (I.e abortion on demand at any stage of pregnancy), so I'd say people in general don't want women to have full control over their reproductive system.
If the woman in question presented herself for an abortion at, say, 38 weeks, she would most likely be refused, and the vast majority of people would agree with the refusal.

According to the Red-C poll taken late last year 29% of the population are in favour of abortion on demand:

http://redcresearch.ie/news/support-for-fine-gael-continues-to-decline

crockholm · 20-01-2013 08:50PM

The_Artful_Badger wrote: »

Its unlikely she was given the op knows this person and is using the situation in his argument of pro life.

Peoples views will always come into it as we all have a social responsibility. Getting knocked up knowing you dont want a child (whice she knew after the first two times) is idiotic.

Im not trying to use it like that, abortion will always be available where i live, and im not going to protest to change that, just bringing it to the discussion that stuff like this will happen, thanks.

Artful_Badger · 20-01-2013 08:50PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

I honestly have no idea what the church going habits of 25,000 random people are.

As have you.

I would imagine.;)

Given the involvement of the church in Irish and life and their high profile stance on this topic I can make a pretty good guess as to the church going habits of 25,000 anti abortion protesters.

Just as you can of the amount of clergy present.

Artful_Badger · 20-01-2013 08:51PM

lazygal wrote: »

But no one can be pregnant and give birth but her, so to say she has to be pregnant because she had x number of abortions isn't really fair. You're still imposing pregnancy on a woman. Having had a difficult pregnancy and birth myself, I'd never force another woman to be pregnant, regardless of her previous behaviour.

That argument is flawed yes, I agree with you. The amount of abortions doesnt have a bearing on others rights. But she's still an idiot if she cant use protection after having two abortions.

dvpower · 20-01-2013 08:52PM

B0jangles wrote: »

According to the Red-C poll taken late last year 29% of the population are in favour of abortion on demand:

http://redcresearch.ie/news/support-for-fine-gael-continues-to-decline

There isn't a chance in hell that 29pct of the Irish people would support abortion on demand at full term.

I think we can assume that people answering that polling question were assuming some kind time limit restriction.

Artful_Badger · 20-01-2013 08:55PM

crockholm wrote: »

Im not trying to use it like that, abortion will always be available where i live, and im not going to protest to change that, just bringing it to the discussion that stuff like this will happen, thanks.

It was a point made in relation to unnecessary abortions. Didnt mean to misrepresent your argument but I was just saying you knew the person and were confident the abortions were not unavoidable.

steddyeddy · 20-01-2013 08:59PM

It doesn't bother me to be honest. In less civilised time and places large numbers of people have supported slavery, anti gay rights ect. I'm comparing neither to abortion but I'm illustrating that popular support does not always coincide with morality.

padd b1975 · 20-01-2013 09:00PM

The_Artful_Badger wrote: »

Given the involvement of the church in Irish and life and their high profile stance on this topic I can make a pretty good guess as to the church going habits of 25,000 anti abortion protesters.

Just as you can of the amount of clergy present.

How many priests sit at the cabinet table?

How many priests are junior ministers?

How many priests are TDs?

How many priests are senators?

How many priests are councillors?

If you can answer those questions, it should give you a good indication of the amount of power any church holds in Ireland today.

At Least 25,000 Attend Anti-Abortion Vigil

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