Restaurant bans children...

Zebra3 · 19-01-2013 11:05AM

Saab Ed wrote: »

Silly argument and you know it.

No, it's not.

You made a statement and now you're backtracking on it.

Gummy Panda · 19-01-2013 11:32AM

Saab Ed wrote: »

Silly argument and you know it.

But if you are open to business, you are open to all?

osarusan · 19-01-2013 11:41AM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

But if you are open to business, you are open to all?

Under-18s not allowed in pubs/nightclubs after 9pm.

So the 'ban' on children is actually the law, and need not be justfied to the law.

That's why it's a silly comparison.

Zebra3 · 19-01-2013 11:45AM

osarusan wrote: »

Under-18s not allowed in pubs/nightclubs after 9pm.

So the 'ban' on children is actually the law, and need not be justfied to the law.

That's why it's a silly comparison.

It's legalised discrimination.

But still discrimination.

ash23 · 19-01-2013 12:07PM

This thread confuses me. I've been a parent for 10 years, since I was 20. And I've always seen it as very simple. When dining out with the child, go somewhere child friendly. Decent kids menu, other kids around, high chairs, colours and paper etc etc.

When dining out as a couple or with friends (no kids) go to a more sophisticated place where kids are not going to be doing your head in.
Fact is I love my child but I don't spend money on a sitter, get all dressed up and meet with the girls (who also get sitters) so that I can listen to other peoples kids chattering, crying, messing etc. If I wanted to hear it, I'd have brought my own and saved myself the cost of a babysitter.

I'm glad that some places are child friendly. And I'm equally glad that some places aren't for those times when I don't want to be around kids.

It's not that difficult. Some places cater to different types.

super_furry · 19-01-2013 12:20PM

Rosy Posy wrote: »

The Butcher Grill in Ranelagh

I've been there. Absolutely amazing food but its tiny. It sits 24 people max and that's with people eating and sitting at the counter. You let kids in there and it will not only reduce their already miniscule number of tables but if a kid does start acting up, everyone eating there will be affected.

lounakin · 19-01-2013 12:24PM

spookwoman wrote: »

People in wheelchairs didn't choose to be in wheelchairs and they have a right to live their lives like any other adult. If you decide to have children thats your choice and must live with it and its consequences. Parents cannot expect establishments to provide for their every need.
Most people go into coffee shops to sit and take themselves out of the rat race for a few moments and have some quiet. They don't want to put up with other peoples kids. Why should they the kids are not theirs.

Fair play to that owner for providing a quiet haven for adults.
Can expect some people to think I'm a child hating nazi

Children are part of our society, whether you like it or not. None of us chose to be here and we were all once children. My best memories as a child was going out with my parents, being impressed by the food and the company, behaving as properly as possible and getting praised by the waiters. I don't think it should be allowed to discriminate freely because some children are well-behaved. I think people should be given a chance. I also think there are appropriate places to bring your child and there shouldn't be a need for 'no children allowed' sign because it should be obvious.
Some kids find it hard to sit in place, and perhaps the parents should be considerate and go somewhere they won't annoy everyone. Yes, I agree. But let's say the same of loud-talkers, phone beepers etc. If I think back at my week or month, the people I found the most obnoxiously annoying were usually adults!
Anyway, of course I'm not saying an establishment is forced to accept everyone, but I think we should give people a break.

edit: I'm surprise at how civilised this conversation is!

ash23 · 19-01-2013 12:31PM

Oh meant to add, my kid is really well behaved, doesn't shout or scream or any of the other things that people mentioned. She does however, never shut up chatting. She even does my head in sometimes. So if I bring her to a lovely place she'll sit in her chair and eat her meal and not mess or act like a spoilt brat. But I amn't sure that the couple next to us who are out on a romantic night out, want to hear a blow by blow account of all the things that happened that day in school, or her thoughts on the horse burger fiasco or the merits of Niall from One Direction.

Most people like her, she's polite and friendly and I think the sun shines out of her arse. However, I do appreciate that there are certain places that a child might not be appreciated, and a very expensive, intimate restaurant is one of them.
I'd rather take her someone she can enjoy the food, enjoy the experience and have the staff chat to her, than take her somewhere I have to keep shushing her and getting glares off other people as she chatters about whether or not she needs to start wearing lip gloss.

lounakin · 19-01-2013 12:37PM

ash23 wrote: »

Oh meant to add, my kid is really well behaved, doesn't shout or scream or any of the other things that people mentioned. She does however, never shut up chatting. She even does my head in sometimes. So if I bring her to a lovely place she'll sit in her chair and eat her meal and not mess or act like a spoilt brat. But I amn't sure that the couple next to us who are out on a romantic night out, want to hear a blow by blow account of all the things that happened that day in school, or her thoughts on the horse burger fiasco or the merits of Niall from One Direction.

Most people like her, she's polite and friendly and I think the sun shines out of her arse. However, I do appreciate that there are certain places that a child might not be appreciated, and a very expensive, intimate restaurant is one of them.
I'd rather take her someone she can enjoy the food, enjoy the experience and have the staff chat to her, than take her somewhere I have to keep shushing her and getting glares off other people as she chatters about whether or not she needs to start wearing lip gloss.

My family was into dining in 4 stars restaurants in France a few years back, once a year in the summer. My brother and I were always invited and we really loved it. Apparently when I was 5 the head chef came out to see me because he'd heard I was enjoying the prawns so much I was sucking the juices out of their heads. My sister came along much later and I remember she really enjoyed it too. The head chef came out and asked if she wanted to see the kitchen and brought her in! They'd never do that with an adult by the way. Kitchen is secret!

Grayson · 19-01-2013 12:38PM

lounakin wrote: »

Children are part of our society, whether you like it or not. None of us chose to be here and we were all once children. My best memories as a child was going out with my parents, being impressed by the food and the company, behaving as properly as possible and getting praised by the waiters. I don't think it should be allowed to discriminate freely because some children are well-behaved. I think people should be given a chance. I also think there are appropriate places to bring your child and there shouldn't be a need for 'no children allowed' sign because it should be obvious.
Some kids find it hard to sit in place, and perhaps the parents should be considerate and go somewhere they won't annoy everyone. Yes, I agree. But let's say the same of loud-talkers, phone beepers etc. If I think back at my week or month, the people I found the most obnoxiously annoying were usually adults!
Anyway, of course I'm not saying an establishment is forced to accept everyone, but I think we should give people a break.

You'd think it would be obvious. But for those it isn't, there's a sign.

lounakin wrote: »

edit: I'm surprise at how civilised this conversation is!

Go **** ***** *** ** ********** yourself :P

lounakin · 19-01-2013 12:41PM

Grayson wrote: »

Go **** ***** *** ** ********** yourself :P

Why thank you I certainly will!

hoodwinked · 19-01-2013 01:38PM

osarusan wrote: »

Under-18s not allowed in pubs/nightclubs after 9pm.

So the 'ban' on children is actually the law, and need not be justfied to the law.

That's why it's a silly comparison.

thats all well and good but if you look at the previous posts which started this its clearly mentioned this was a lunch time incident,

and i believe the law is that children are not permitted in establishments where alcohol is served after 9pm.

and i believe you'd have to be crazy to bring your child into a restaurant at 9.30pm. but surely at 1-2pm it should be ok (obviously if they are well behaved and not disturbing others)

its like the cinema, if i go see Up (or some other multi age movie) at 6pm id expect a few children in there, if i go at 9pm or 11pm i would expect it to be only adults!

Hurmf · 19-01-2013 01:42PM

themadchef wrote: »

Old people are quite cranky too. They complain. gotta keep them out too.
People in wheelchairs take up alot of room, yeah, fúck them out as well.
Fat people need to go, make the place look untidy.

I got an idea. Lets just keep all the young people with money, lovely money (as mister Crabs would say).

You cant discriminate. A baby is not a H+S risk to anyone. It's a pain in the hole for others to listen to at times (unless youre broody as fúck). Good luck to him prooving otherwise.

Perfect eg of H&S risk: I work in a bar. About 3 weeks ago I was coming out of the kitchen. The door has glass in it so u can see if someone is comin towards the door. There was a toddler on the other side of the door & obviously I couldn't see him through the glass. Knocked him over with the door when I came out of kitchen. Luckily he wasn't hurt & the mother apologised to me for letting him run around the bar. But there ya go. Couldve been so much worse, could have spilled something hot on him or anything.

Also they make a hell of a lot of mess! I wish I could ban parents ordering rice for kids

osarusan · 19-01-2013 01:49PM

hoodwinked wrote: »

thats all well and good but if you look at the previous posts which started this its clearly mentioned this was a lunch time incident,

and i believe the law is that children are not permitted in establishments where alcohol is served after 9pm.

and i believe you'd have to be crazy to bring your child into a restaurant at 9.30pm. but surely at 1-2pm it should be ok (obviously if they are well behaved and not disturbing others)

its like the cinema, if i go see Up (or some other multi age movie) at 6pm id expect a few children in there, if i go at 9pm or 11pm i would expect it to be only adults!

I don't think we are in disagreement.

In response to the argument that 'if you are open, you are open for all', a couple of posters questioned whether that meant kids should be allowed in nightclubs.

The original poster said it was a silly comparison, and I agreed, because the former is a decision by a restaurant owner, whereas the latter is the law of the land.

As I said earlier, I think it's dodgy ground to ban a certain kind of person because you think they might later behave in a way which you don't want.

hoodwinked · 19-01-2013 01:52PM

osarusan wrote: »

I don't think we are in disagreement.

In response to the argument that 'if you are open, you are open for all', a couple of posters questioned whether that meant kids should be allowed in nightclubs.

The original poster said it was a silly comparison, and I agreed, because the former is a decision by a restaurant owner, whereas the latter is the law of the land.

As I said earlier, I think it's dodgy ground to ban a certain kind of person because you think they might later behave in a way which you don't want.

i agree, i was just clarifying my point with yours sorry if it came across argumentally)

19-01-2013 02:13PM

Hurmf wrote: »

Perfect eg of H&S risk: I work in a bar. About 3 weeks ago I was coming out of the kitchen. The door has glass in it so u can see if someone is comin towards the door. There was a toddler on the other side of the door & obviously I couldn't see him through the glass. Knocked him over with the door when I came out of kitchen. Luckily he wasn't hurt & the mother apologised to me for letting him run around the bar. But there ya go. Couldve been so much worse, could have spilled something hot on him or anything.

If he was hurt you would have a dreadful legal mess as the mother would likely sue you and might win as 'obviously' the glass was inadequate to allow you to see the toddler(!).
In another country, if this was tried, the judge would simply ask 'and who was supposed to be looking after the child?' and the case would be over.

animaal · 19-01-2013 02:17PM

I have no problem with the concept that some restaurants are suitable for children and others aren't. But I think it's sad that we're back to the greed of past years.

The issue here isn't health & safety - if it was, why are children welcome at "off-peak" times? This restaurant wants to maximise its share of the local white collar workers at lunch times. So no families allowed at that time. But when things are quiet, and the workers are all either behind their desks or at home, then the restaurant is willing to take money from families.

Either be family friendly or don't be. An establishment that's so obviously money-grabbing isn't attractive to me, whether I have children or not.

Hurmf · 19-01-2013 02:20PM

Well as a hotel we are subject to H&S and fire inspections regularly & the door never posed as a H&S issue. For me to see the child the glass would have to b the length of the whole door (not possible). So I certainly hope if anyone ever got sued for a situation like this that the establishment will not be prosecuted over parents negligence.

awec · 19-01-2013 02:27PM

animaal wrote: »

I have no problem with the concept that some restaurants are suitable for children and others aren't. But I think it's sad that we're back to the greed of past years.

The issue here isn't health & safety - if it was, why are children welcome at "off-peak" times? This restaurant wants to maximise its share of the local white collar workers at lunch times. So no families allowed at that time. But when things are quiet, and the workers are all either behind their desks or at home, then the restaurant is willing to take money from families.

Either be family friendly or don't be. An establishment that's so obviously money-grabbing isn't attractive to me, whether I have children or not.

A business that is looking to make money. Shocking.

hoodwinked · 19-01-2013 02:30PM

awec wrote: »

A business that is looking to make money. Shocking.

it is shocking when its at the expense of someone else, in this particular case children!

osarusan · 19-01-2013 02:34PM

awec wrote: »

A business that is looking to make money. Shocking.

Misrepresenting the argument arent you? It's diffcult to claim that children are a H&S risk only some of the time.

bluecode · 19-01-2013 02:36PM

As for the original story. On trip advisor there is a review which mentions the baby situation in that restaurant published some months ago. A cynic might suggest that a newspaper is not above engineering a situation to make a headline.

Just a thought.

As for the issue. Actually I'm on the restaurant's side. Lunchtime is often busy in any restaurant and people on a lunchbreak are time constrained. Parents with kids are not and might easily occupy a table for the entire lunch period. That's even ignoring the issues around buggies and the potential for screaming and crying.

I speak as a parent. Although mine were always generally well behaved. There were times when frankly we caused problems for people with the buggy. Been on receiving end too.

There is a time and a place for children and much as I love mine. I'm happy to leave them behind on occasion.

(Somehow they always find their way back, though:P)

animaal · 19-01-2013 02:39PM

awec wrote: »

A business that is looking to make money. Shocking.

So any initiative that makes money for a business should be supported by the public?

I take it you're a fan of one-hour windows being imposed by a restaurant for your meal, or mandatory service charges that the staff don't get, recycling the side salads returned by previous customers, labeling some random fish as "Cod"? They all make money for a business too.

super_furry · 19-01-2013 02:43PM

hoodwinked wrote: »

it is shocking when its at the expense of someone else, in this particular case children!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

Sofiztikated · 19-01-2013 02:55PM

Hurmf wrote: »

Perfect eg of H&S risk: I work in a bar. About 3 weeks ago I was coming out of the kitchen. The door has glass in it so u can see if someone is comin towards the door. There was a toddler on the other side of the door & obviously I couldn't see him through the glass. Knocked him over with the door when I came out of kitchen. Luckily he wasn't hurt & the mother apologised to me for letting him run around the bar. But there ya go. Couldve been so much worse, could have spilled something hot on him or anything.

Also they make a hell of a lot of mess! I wish I could ban parents ordering rice for kids

I have the perfect example of what can happen to children that are not being supervised.

Unfortunately, I'm not able to talk about it, as it's in court at the moment. All I can divulge is that it involves the child being seriously wounded, and either scarred badly for the rest of their life, or a lot of plastic surgery.

Zebra3 · 19-01-2013 02:57PM

hoodwinked wrote: »

it is shocking when its at the expense of someone else, in this particular case children!

How is at the expense of children?

Grayson · 19-01-2013 03:03PM

osarusan wrote: »

I don't think we are in disagreement.

In response to the argument that 'if you are open, you are open for all', a couple of posters questioned whether that meant kids should be allowed in nightclubs.

The original poster said it was a silly comparison, and I agreed, because the former is a decision by a restaurant owner, whereas the latter is the law of the land.

As I said earlier, I think it's dodgy ground to ban a certain kind of person because you think they might later behave in a way which you don't want.

I put this a couple of pages back.

Should a restaurant/club be allowed choose it's customers based on age or anything else? Should they be allowed discriminate based on dress code or should I be allowed enter any club/eaterie in my grottiest clothes?

Should 18 year olds be allowed into a 21's nightclub? Should I as a 30 something be allowed into a no name disco to perv on 15 year olds?

Whilst we're at it, should i be able to attend a swimming pool during a mother and child session?

There are looooaaaadddds of places that accept children. So far only two places have been mentioned that don't. And it's not the start of a huge trend. There are plenty of places that depend on parents. Children are more than welcome there.

It's weird, suddenly because a couple of places decide to cater to a particular demographic people think it's discrimination. It's not.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a little bit more like it. maybe a carriage on a train that has a no child policy. You could also have a carriage that has a no alcohol policy so kids don't have to watch stag parties heading to Galway.

Sofiztikated · 19-01-2013 03:30PM

animaal wrote: »

So any initiative that makes money for a business should be supported by the public?

I take it you're a fan of one-hour windows being imposed by a restaurant for your meal, or mandatory service charges that the staff don't get, recycling the side salads returned by previous customers, labeling some random fish as "Cod"? They all make money for a business too.

There is one thing is maximising yield, and another in underhanded business practices.

Queen-Mise · 19-01-2013 03:51PM

animaal wrote: »

I have no problem with the concept that some restaurants are suitable for children and others aren't. But I think it's sad that we're back to the greed of past years.

The issue here isn't health & safety - if it was, why are children welcome at "off-peak" times? This restaurant wants to maximise its share of the local white collar workers at lunch times. So no families allowed at that time. But when things are quiet, and the workers are all either behind their desks or at home, then the restaurant is willing to take money from families.

Either be family friendly or don't be. An establishment that's so obviously money-grabbing isn't attractive to me, whether I have children or not.

I agree wholeheartedly with this - either be kid friendly or not. Picking and choosing times is sh*te (obviously other than the after 9pm).

Sofiztikated · 19-01-2013 04:04PM

Queen-Mise wrote: »

I agree wholeheartedly with this - either be kid friendly or not. Picking and choosing times is sh*te (obviously other than the after 9pm).

So matinee showing shouldn't be allowed? Seeing as they pick and choose when the times are?

Restaurant bans children...

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