Restaurant bans children...

Grayson · 19-01-2013 01:37AM

lounakin wrote: »

I don't know what kind of restaurant that is but if it's not totally awkward (small place/big buggies or inappropriate pubs) they shouldn't be allowed to do this. It's stressful enough being a parent and if you have the courage to go out with your newborn to enjoy some food then you should be applauded not sent packing. A restaurant should have the right to approach loud and obnoxious people bothering everyone else, they should also be able to approach parents and say: "if your kids don't stop screaming and throwing pie at the patrons we will have to ask you to leave" but should never assume a baby will make a fuss.

If I was in a restaurant wand there was a screaming kid, I wouldn't go back.

When you say it shouldn't be allowed, what do you mean? Should the owner be fined? Have his licence removed?
A restaurant is a private business. Just like nightclubs can say only over 21's or over 25's. They can also refuse because someone isn't wearing the right kind of clothes and fitting the dress code. Restaurants can do the same.

Here's the thing. that original story happened in Ballsbridge. It's not like it's the only restaurant there. There are loads. And I'm sure some are family orientated. But rather than go find one, this woman went to the press to complain and try and make the place lose business. She's being nasty and vindictive.

fonecrusher1 · 19-01-2013 01:38AM

Great idea.

Why should I have to sit through a dinner thats going to cost me my hard earned cash that is ruined by the wailing of some poor child who's dunce parents can't think beyond their own needs at the expense of everyone else.

Grayson · 19-01-2013 01:44AM

lounakin wrote: »

We wouldn't have problems like these if social life wasn't so kid-unfriendly. We all do what we can just because we have a child doesn't mean we suddenly have to abandon any chance of getting a coffee somewhere nice and opt for macdonalds or nasty shopping centre foodhalls. And before you judge someone's parenting, consider they might be doing their best and just looking to relax somewhere, hoping their kids will behave just enough not to be kicked out.

I work in blanch. Monday-Friday, during the day, the place is pretty much just women pushing prams (there's nothing in Blanchardstown except the centre). Every single coffee shop and cafe and restaurant is filled with them. Not one of them isn't child friendly. The two that serve alcohol, Captain America's and TGI Fridays always have plenty of parents. Captains is about 90% families on any given afternoon and as I said, sounds like a crèche. TGI's is a bit better.

There are 4 starbucks. All of them are filled with women with their kids. A few of them have toys for the kids. One of them used to (I don't know if they do any more) have story mornings. The kids sit around listening to a story whilst their parents have coffee.

There's fecking loads for mothers to do there as far as eateries are concerned. And it's the same everywhere. I know very, very few places that are "no children". In fact, I can't think of one that isn't a pub off the top of my head.

lounakin · 19-01-2013 01:51AM

Grayson wrote: »

I work in blanch. Monday-Friday, during the day, the place is pretty much just women pushing prams (there's nothing in Blanchardstown except the centre). Every single coffee shop and cafe and restaurant is filled with them. Not one of them isn't child friendly. The two that serve alcohol, Captain America's and TGI Fridays always have plenty of parents. Captains is about 90% families on any given afternoon and as I said, sounds like a crèche. TGI's is a bit better.

There are 4 starbucks. All of them are filled with women with their kids. A few of them have toys for the kids. One of them used to (I don't know if they do any more) have story mornings. The kids sit around listening to a story whilst their parents have coffee.

There's fecking loads for mothers to do there as far as eateries are concerned. And it's the same everywhere. I know very, very few places that are "no children". In fact, I can't think of one that isn't a pub off the top of my head.

That's what I mean, you have to a shopping centre to see kid-friendly places. In fairness I have felt accepted in most places I go with my baby (who is, in society, the most well-behave and delightful 8 months old) but I do feel like a nuisance when I go somewhere with my buggy. Some places obviously make it hard for you to feel comfortable even if there is room. But I mean Dublin society in general isn't that kid friendly compared to other countries (can't say the rest of ireland because I've never been)

Grayson · 19-01-2013 02:09AM

lounakin wrote: »

That's what I mean, you have to a shopping centre to see kid-friendly places. In fairness I have felt accepted in most places I go with my baby (who is, in society, the most well-behave and delightful 8 months old) but I do feel like a nuisance when I go somewhere with my buggy. Some places obviously make it hard for you to feel comfortable even if there is room. But I mean Dublin society in general isn't that kid friendly compared to other countries (can't say the rest of ireland because I've never been)

I mean there's nothing in Blanchardstown for anyone at all except for the centre. It doesn't matter if you have a child or not. All there is is a shopping centre. There's 4 pubs in the village which would have kids in them during the day.

So if you are trying to say there isn't a lot for parents, I mean there isn't a lot for anyone whether they have a child or not.

But everything there is, is child friendly.

spookwoman · 19-01-2013 02:23AM

lounakin wrote: »

I don't know what kind of restaurant that is but if it's not totally awkward (small place/big buggies or inappropriate pubs) they shouldn't be allowed to do this. It's stressful enough being a parent and if you have the courage to go out with your newborn to enjoy some food then you should be applauded not sent packing. A restaurant should have the right to approach loud and obnoxious people bothering everyone else, they should also be able to approach parents and say: "if your kids don't stop screaming and throwing pie at the patrons we will have to ask you to leave" but should never assume a baby will make a fuss.

People in wheelchairs didn't choose to be in wheelchairs and they have a right to live their lives like any other adult. If you decide to have children thats your choice and must live with it and its consequences. Parents cannot expect establishments to provide for their every need.
Most people go into coffee shops to sit and take themselves out of the rat race for a few moments and have some quiet. They don't want to put up with other peoples kids. Why should they the kids are not theirs.

Fair play to that owner for providing a quiet haven for adults.
Can expect some people to think I'm a child hating nazi

iCosmopolis · 19-01-2013 02:41AM

Damn right there should be places to go for lunch that are child free, I fully support their decision, they obviously do well as is and the buggies like someone mentioned earlier are monsters now, and nearly require a mechanic to close them just to get in a boot (several of those in a small space?). I'd enjoy a place like that if I'm out without the baby tbh. Why shouldn't there be that option - There's lots of places to go that are kid friendly, why not adult friendly?

And also so there aren't arseholes who sit in the child/family section of a restaurant when it's busy to read a book and then shout "oh for focks sake!" at you when your child cries...in the child/family section...where children are supposed to be ok to do that. Which happened to us 2 weeks ago. And what's worse OH starts to apologise, and as I said, what the f*ck are you apologising to HER for, there's a tonne of single tables out there, she can f*CK off out of the kids section if she doesn't like it.

iCosmopolis · 19-01-2013 02:46AM

spookwoman wrote: »

People in wheelchairs didn't choose to be in wheelchairs and they have a right to live their lives like any other adult. If you decide to have children thats your choice and must live with it and its consequences. Parents cannot expect establishments to provide for their every need.
Most people go into coffee shops to sit and take themselves out of the rat race for a few moments and have some quiet. They don't want to put up with other peoples kids. Why should they the kids are not theirs.

Fair play to that owner for providing a quiet haven for adults.
Can expect some people to think I'm a child hating nazi

Valid point 100% agree as a parent but also as an adult that appreciates peace and quiet, have a child that's getting to that age but I'd be mortified bringing her somewhere that didn't drown her out if she gets a mood on her

Rosy Posy · 19-01-2013 02:49AM

spookwoman wrote: »

People in wheelchairs didn't choose to be in wheelchairs and they have a right to live their lives like any other adult. If you decide to have children thats your choice and must live with it and its consequences. Parents cannot expect establishments to provide for their every need.
Most people go into coffee shops to sit and take themselves out of the rat race for a few moments and have some quiet. They don't want to put up with other peoples kids. Why should they the kids are not theirs.

Fair play to that owner for providing a quiet haven for adults.
[SIZE="1"]Can expect some people to think I'm a child hating nazi[/SIZE]

Not everyone decides to have children, our three were unplanned.

I like the fact that there are some restaurants that are child friendly and some that aren't. Tbh I'd rather they had an explicit policy than to accept your custom and then be rude or unhelpful to your kids. I love child friendly places when we go out as a family but if we go to the bother of getting a babysitter I would prefer to be in the company of adults.

Rosy Posy · 19-01-2013 02:52AM

Grayson wrote: »

And it's the same everywhere. I know very, very few places that are "no children". In fact, I can't think of one that isn't a pub off the top of my head.

The Butcher Grill in Ranelagh

osarusan · 19-01-2013 03:42AM

Difficult one.

If kids should be banned because they're liable to go everywhere and trip up customers/waiter, and are thus a H&S issue, then should people ordering alcohol not be banned because they're liable to fall about the place and become a H&S issue?

I guess my point is that I can't think of anything that kids are liable to do which is a H&S issue that adults aren't liable to do too.

So if it's right to ban people for what they might do/probably will do at some point during a meal, there would be more than kids being banned.

square ball · 19-01-2013 03:51AM

I used to work in a hotel with a restaurant and the main problem is parents with young kids let them do what they want. The kids can shout scream run around and fight with each other and a lot of them pay no attention to them. This may not bother the parents as they are immune to the noise but it pisses off everyone else both staff and customers. An adult making noise wouldn't be tolerated so why should kids?

Onthe3rdDay · 19-01-2013 07:25AM

osarusan wrote: »

Difficult one.

I guess my point is that I can't think of anything that kids are liable to do which is a H&S issue that adults aren't liable to do too.

Kids are small and easy to trip over, espeically when you're carrying plates and they walk right into you. I've seen this happen more than once and it's frightening on so many levels. Guess who will get the blame? not the little darling who was just expressing themselves.

Grayson · 19-01-2013 08:29AM

square ball wrote: »

I used to work in a hotel with a restaurant and the main problem is parents with young kids let them do what they want. The kids can shout scream run around and fight with each other and a lot of them pay no attention to them. This may not bother the parents as they are immune to the noise but it pisses off everyone else both staff and customers. An adult making noise wouldn't be tolerated so why should kids?

If if you tell/ask someone to quieten their kids you'd be told to sod off.

Sofiztikated · 19-01-2013 08:41AM

I think a lot of the parents on this thread have the wrong idea about what most of us are trying to say.

We're not trying to ban kids altogether from restaurants. We are just supporting this restaurants (and others, should they wish) right not to serve that particular market.

If it was the only restaurant in Ireland, and they wanted to not serve children, I could understand their point. But it's not. It's bang in the middle of D4. You do have other options, and I'm not just talking about fast fooderies.

It's only a certain time of the day as well, for this particular restaurant. It's prime lunch time. 12 - 2. A lot of businesses in the area let their staff go for lunch at this particular time. They want to get in, eat, and have to get back to work. People with kids in tow, I'm going to guess, are not bound to this particular time. Why not go that bit earlier, or later, if you MUST go to this particular restaurant?

Think of it on a purely financial/yield management point of view. There are only a number of seats in the restaurant. To maximise profits, you want all seats taken up, by paying customers. An adult will order more, and therefore pay more than a child/infant. Having a highchair means one less high paying customer. Buggies frequently take up almost 2 spaces, as they are getting to ridiculous SUV sizes!

I know you love your Darling Daughter/Son. Good. But take into account that not everyone wants to be in an area with children. Be it those that don't want kids, or it could be parents like yourself. They could have gotten a babysitter. Maybe Granddad is taking them to the park. Poor mother/father haven't had a day to themselves in, oh it must be since before little Juanita was born. It'd be great to have a day out, be sociable, be a part of the human race again.

Why not let certain restaurants cater for those people? Is it doing you any harm? No it's not.

19-01-2013 08:43AM

I'm abroad a lot and I don't see this problem with kids from Italian, spanish or portuguese families. They commonly bring kids to restaurants,often in very large family groups. The difference is that the kids sit at the table, order food and eat it and have obviously been taught to behave correctly. No running around, no tantrums, no 'I don't like this'. In fact they see going to a restaurant as a treat where part of the game is adult behaviour.
Misbehaving, ignorant kids in restaurants is an speciality of Irish or UK parents. The school of parenting, prevalent here, where parents 'negotiate ' with three year olds (and lose every time) may be the root cause.

Goldenjohn · 19-01-2013 08:48AM

Restaurant 1 kids 0, back of the net....

19-01-2013 08:49AM

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Kids are small and easy to trip over, espeically when you're carrying plates and they walk right into you. I've seen this happen more than once and it's frightening on so many levels. Guess who will get the blame? not the little darling who was just expressing themselves.

And certainly not the parent who is supposed to be minding them...

That's the case in this legal juristiction. In other juristictions the parent would be liable if anything happened the child, or was caused by the child, while supposedely under the parents care.

MrCreosote · 19-01-2013 09:03AM

Up to the business themselves to make whatever decision (as long as it's legally allowed) they feel improves their profits. If you don't agree with it then don't go there, and you can gloat when they go out of business.

However it is a shining example of the loathing that Irish society has for children and parents.

Frank Black · 19-01-2013 09:03AM

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Not everyone decides to have children, our three were unplanned.

You may need to consider a different method of contraception to the one you're currently using.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 19-01-2013 09:04AM

Children should be seen and not heard as the old saying goes. You've no business bringing untamed children into a feeding house.

Grayson · 19-01-2013 09:09AM

Deleted User wrote: »

And certainly not the parent who is supposed to be minding them...

That's the case in this legal juristiction. In other juristictions the parent would be liable if anything happened the child, or was caused by the child, while supposedely under the parents care.

To be fair, it was the management who allowed them in. So it's the managements fault.

Saab Ed · 19-01-2013 09:17AM

If you're open for business then you're open to all in my opinion. Discrimination is discrimination no matter how convenient it might be.

If there's a problem with parents disciplining a child then point out the problem. If it persists then ask them to leave.

You can't ban all travellers because some of them cause trouble. You can't ban women because you deem your premises to be "men only" Why the heck would anybody think its any different for kids!

Zebra3 · 19-01-2013 09:26AM

Saab Ed wrote: »

If you're open for business then you're open to all in my opinion.

So people should be allowed bring young children into a nightclub? :rolleyes:

Saab Ed · 19-01-2013 09:31AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

So people should be allowed bring young children into a nightclub? :rolleyes:

Silly argument and you know it.

Galwayguy35 · 19-01-2013 09:38AM

davet82 wrote: »

If you allow this then maybe the elderly might be next, very slow hogging tables and they could fall over so health and saftey reasons or sure lets stop the disabled coming in too?

That's a bit of a silly arguement, we pay good money to eat in most restaurants, we get it that parents think their kid(s) are wonderful but that doesn't mean the rest of us should have to put up with a kid screaming the place down or running everywhere while mammy and daddy take no notice of the racket being created.

Sofiztikated · 19-01-2013 09:43AM

Saab Ed wrote: »

If you're open for business then you're open to all in my opinion. Discrimination is discrimination no matter how convenient it might be.

If there's a problem with parents disciplining a child then point out the problem. If it persists then ask them to leave.

You can't ban all travellers because some of them cause trouble. You can't ban women because you deem your premises to be "men only" Why the heck would anybody think its any different for kids!

You can however be women only. Like Curves.

Grayson · 19-01-2013 09:44AM

Saab Ed wrote: »

Silly argument and you know it.

Not really. Should a restaurant/club be allowed choose it's customers based on age or anything else. Should they be allowed discriminate based on dress code or should I be allowed enter any club/eaterie in my grottiest clothes?

Should 18 year olds be allowed into a 21's nightclub? Should I as a 30 something be allowed into a no name disco to perv on 15 year olds?

vitani · 19-01-2013 10:11AM

I use a simple system - if the place has highchairs and a kid's menu, I'll bring my daughter there. If it has neither, I won't.

I don't see the second place as trying to 'ban' my child, but I know that if we go there, neither of us would be very comfortable.

jd · 19-01-2013 10:16AM

Deleted User wrote: »

They commonly bring kids to restaurants,often in very large family groups. The difference is that the kids sit at the table, order food and eat it and have obviously been taught to behave correctly. No running around, no tantrums, no 'I don't like this'.

Absolutely. And they eat smaller portions from the "adult" menu, not crappy nuggets etc

Restaurant bans children...

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