Whats Killing The High Street

17-01-2013 05:41PM

squod wrote: »

Think we should all be given a free pass for one day per year. It'll allow reasonable access to your nearest big town or city.

Imagine this. Driving your car into ''town''. Being able to browse, shop, have a cuppa tea, listen to some street performers/watch a movie or whatever. Then have a nice couple of pints and a nose bag then drive home again in your own car.

No rushing from point A to B. No waiting for a bus. No murderous rage while taking the luas, no fear of being clamped, fined or arrested for D&D.

Y'know. A normal day for normal people. Once a year. Too much to ask?

You should not be driving after a couple of pints!

ejmaztec · 17-01-2013 05:48PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

"high street" followed by link to British article. Should this not be in the British Economy forum, or some such thing?

PS: I was on 'High Street' in Dublin today and it was very much alive. Do you mean the British "high street" (common noun)? If so, at least please make that clear.

So you're the one trying to kill the "High Street".:(

Cienciano · 17-01-2013 05:51PM

Have to agree with high prices being the killer for the "high street". I haven't actually shopped on Grafton Street or Henry Street for years.
Although, the last laptop and telly I bought were cheaper to buy in shops in Dublin than online. Online isn't automaticly cheaper.
But buying small things is so much easier online, I had to get a few cheap odd bits and pieces last week, far easier searching and buying online than walking around shops looking for them.

ejmaztec · 17-01-2013 05:56PM

Bricks and mortar shops are just showrooms for online suppliers. Like a Jessops worker mentioned yesterday, that people would walk in to get a camera demonstration and then feck off and buy the camera from some other outfit online a lot cheaper.

Dostoevsky · 17-01-2013 05:56PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

So you're the one trying to kill the "High Street".:(

Actually, High Street in Dublin is perhaps my favourite street in the city. It is steeped in history, and originally named 'High Street' because there was an Irish High Cross there (Source).

drdeadlift · 17-01-2013 06:09PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

commercial rates is the big one in this country

will the councils reduce it and help save small business?

will they fcuk

Rates have gone up by an astronomical amount on Camden street as of yesterday.

A ridiculous amount!

shruikan2553 · 17-01-2013 06:17PM

The internet has made it far easier and it will only get worse for shops, even Tesco and Dunnes will deliver your shopping.

Car- Find parking,traffic, pay for parking but you can throw stuff you buy into the boot and more choice of when to leave.
Bus- irish public transport, the bus will be late, restricted to certain times, can be expensive
Walk- Weather can be bad, heavy/bulky items are just a pain in the ass, distance

So you get to town and see something you like,maybe its cheaper elsewhere or maybe its not as good as it looks. Minding your own business and somebody is looking for money (chuggers, beggers etc) Then the shops are closed at 6 (most of the time) so no more buying.

So I can do this or:
Any time of the day I can sit down, browse a greater selection, compare prices, see reviews, cheaper than in the shops a lot of the time and have it sent to your door (or in my case parcelmotel 10 mins down the road because its an hour walk to the parcel depot for an post if you miss it)

ejmaztec · 17-01-2013 06:27PM

drdeadlift wrote: »

Rates have gone up by an astronomical amount on Camden street as of yesterday.

A ridiculous amount!

Local authorities are generally a bit thick. They want as much money as they can get their greasy hands on but don't seem to realise that if they drive retailers out of business, they won't get any rates or car-parking fees at all because both the retailers and the customers will have gone.

drdeadlift · 17-01-2013 06:31PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

Local authorities are generally a bit thick. They want as much money as they can get their greasy hands on but don't seem to realise that if they drive retailers out of business, they won't get any rates or car-parking fees at all because both the retailers and the customers will have gone.

I know its mad.

Only presence the council has on that street is the obese guy trying to brush up the rubbish.

The majority of the businesses are struggling let alone an increase of the current rates by threefold.

ScumLord · 17-01-2013 06:36PM

Peoples obsession with cheap is killing more than just the high street. The only way to meet peoples demand for the cheapest products is to buy from large companies that can buy in bulk. Small businesses can't compete. I think in time it will lead to a reduction in choice. Small business can't compete with larger corporations at any level so on top of cheap buying killing small shops it will kill off all sorts of small businesses as people go for the cheap Chinese option rather than the high quality local product.

It's the consumer that's killing the high street, small businesses in general and even product quality. I don't think we have any concept of value any more. We're so obsessed with buying the cheapest option we'll spend twice as much buying replacement cheap products that we would have been much better off buying the more expensive option in the first place as it would have worked out cheaper in the long run, it would have come with a better warranty, better service and lasted much longer than the cheap option.

P_1 · 17-01-2013 06:38PM

The problem for B+M retailers is that:

1 - Generally it is cheaper to sell online (lower staff costs, overheads etc.)
2 - Having your shop on the important street (e.g. Grafton Street) is going to cost you more than having your shop on the less important street (e.g. Drury Street). The problem is that more potential customers will be on the more important street.
3 - It costs the customer less to buy online (your internet bill) than by going into town (paying for petrol/parking/busfare).

Reducing the prices might not work because:

1 - The bills still have to be paid
2 - You could run into trouble with your suppliers for selling below their RRP (I think certain pubs have gotten into trouble with the likes of Diageo for selling pints too cheaply for example).

Bloody messy situation all round

Allyall · 17-01-2013 06:42PM

Incompetence and Greed..

books4sale · 17-01-2013 06:45PM

Upward only rental rates.

Madness, how is any high street business supposed to compete with an online businesswhen they can't even negotiate a reduction on their rental rate.

The government promised to sort out these outdated laws a long time ago and all we get is the same old thumb twiddling.

Ridiculous!

Allyall · 17-01-2013 06:45PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Peoples obsession with cheap is killing more than just the high street. The only way to meet peoples demand for the cheapest products is to buy from large companies that can buy in bulk. Small businesses can't compete. I think in time it will lead to a reduction in choice. Small business can't compete with larger corporations at any level so on top of cheap buying killing small shops it will kill off all sorts of small businesses as people go for the cheap Chinese option rather than the high quality local product.

It's the consumer that's killing the high street, small businesses in general and even product quality. I don't think we have any concept of value any more. We're so obsessed with buying the cheapest option we'll spend twice as much buying replacement cheap products that we would have been much better off buying the more expensive option in the first place as it would have worked out cheaper in the long run, it would have come with a better warranty, better service and lasted much longer than the cheap option.

Or, it could become so bland and repetitive it might encourage people to start making/building/growing/sewing/baking things at home.

Better quality, originality, cheap, and back to our roots.

It could be the beginning of something beautiful..

Sulla Felix · 17-01-2013 06:54PM

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Yeah I just pirated a T-shirt and a Toaster there a while ago

Pirate Bay has a physibles section now, give it a decade and that will be the reality.

ejmaztec · 17-01-2013 06:59PM

books4sale wrote: »

Upward only rental rates.

Madness, how is any high street business supposed to compete with an online businesswhen they can't even negotiate a reduction on their rental rate.

The government promised to sort out these outdated laws a long time ago and all we get is the same old thumb twiddling.

Ridiculous!

After taking power, our wonderful government decided that they couldn't sort it out for some strange and weirdly complicated legal reasons, idiots!

super_furry · 17-01-2013 06:59PM

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

speaking from a retail background, i can assure you that 9 out of 10 customers are pig ignorant and treat retail staff like dogs on the street

Speaking from a background of making up statistics, I can assure you than 12 out of 6 shop assistants are worse that Hitler and treat customers like a the ****e from the dogs of the street.

Allyall · 17-01-2013 07:02PM

super_furry wrote: »

Speaking from a background of making up statistics, I can assure you than 12 out of 6 shop assistants are worse that Hitler and treat customers like a the ****e from the dogs of the street.

Hint of an Italian accent there near the end?

Cienciano · 17-01-2013 07:04PM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

The internet has made it far easier and it will only get worse for shops, even Tesco and Dunnes will deliver your shopping.

Car- Find parking,traffic, pay for parking but you can throw stuff you buy into the boot and more choice of when to leave.
Bus- irish public transport, the bus will be late, restricted to certain times, can be expensive
Walk- Weather can be bad, heavy/bulky items are just a pain in the ass, distance

So you get to town and see something you like,maybe its cheaper elsewhere or maybe its not as good as it looks. Minding your own business and somebody is looking for money (chuggers, beggers etc) Then the shops are closed at 6 (most of the time) so no more buying.

So I can do this or:
Any time of the day I can sit down, browse a greater selection, compare prices, see reviews, cheaper than in the shops a lot of the time and have it sent to your door (or in my case parcelmotel 10 mins down the road because its an hour walk to the parcel depot for an post if you miss it)

That's it, the convenience of shopping online is great. I remember going into hmv a few years back (first time in ages) and wanted to buy some new music. It's just too hard, you're looking at cd covers wondering what it's going to be like. Where online you can check out reviews, find similar music to what you like, listen to samples so you have a good idea of what new music is going to be good. (Then open pirate bay and download their entire discography for free)

super_furry · 17-01-2013 07:06PM

Allyall wrote: »

Hint of an Italian accent there near the end?

Keep it to yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WYVUNY6z6E

General Relativity · 17-01-2013 07:07PM

dd972 wrote: »

I blame Michael Ryan and Derrick Bird

I don't even know who they are but I agree with you.

3ndahalfof6 · 17-01-2013 07:10PM

Snow chains in the summer.

super_furry · 17-01-2013 07:11PM

It was all the fault of that monorail salesman anyway.

Pottler · 17-01-2013 07:21PM

stmol32 wrote: »

For me it has to be the ridiculous cost of bus fare.
It takes the best part of a tenner to get me and two kids into and home from town (Dublin).

It's about 8Km so walking isn't an option.
If I need to buy anything or go to the cinema then we walk to the nearsest shopping centre (2 Km).

Ten euros may not seem like a lot but it's a huge chunk out of my disposable income so I'm only able to go to town if it's absolutely unavoidable which is a shame because there's a much better buzz around than in any clinical staid shopping centre.

Dublin Bus can go and ask me hole the greed f**ckers.

No offence, but if the bus fare is hurting, I doubt the high street is gasping for you to save them. I reckon the real key thing here is that the bus fare is enough to put people off- ie they've feck all disposable income. It's not the prices, the layout, the rents or even the Internet(but that is very much the future of shopping imo), it's the fact people are taxed to the hilt and under severe financial pressure. If people are broke, they're not going out splurging on shopping, therefore High street is fecked, for a while to come yet.

md23040 · 17-01-2013 07:32PM

Pottler wrote: »

No offence, but if the bus fare is hurting, I doubt the high street is gasping for you to save them. I reckon the real key thing here is that the bus fare is enough to put people off- ie they've feck all disposable income. It's not the prices, the layout, the rents or even the Internet(but that is very much the future of shopping imo), it's the fact people are taxed to the hilt and under severe financial pressure. If people are broke, they're not going out splurging on shopping, therefore High street is fecked, for a while to come yet.

Many online companies like Amazon pay little taxes and set-up in countries such as Luxembourg. The advantages this offers is partially passed onto consumers with lower prices meaning high street stores cannot possibly compete.

Pottler · 17-01-2013 07:36PM

md23040 wrote: »

Many online companies like Amazon pay little taxes and set-up in countries such as Luxembourg. The advantages this offers is partially passed onto consumers with lower prices meaning high street stores cannot possibly compete.

Indeed. I have one word that runs a bit contrary to that arguement, and my own, and that's Penneys. Truly a black swan.:) Amazing company btw, - they really slaughter the competition.

shedweller · 17-01-2013 07:37PM

Pottler wrote: »

No offence, but if the bus fare is hurting, I doubt the high street is gasping for you to save them. I reckon the real key thing here is that the bus fare is enough to put people off- ie they've feck all disposable income. It's not the prices, the layout, the rents or even the Internet(but that is very much the future of shopping imo), it's the fact people are taxed to the hilt and under severe financial pressure. If people are broke, they're not going out splurging on shopping, therefore High street is fecked, for a while to come yet.

This +1000

I was just about to say that nobody mentioned the ever increasing taxes as being a contributing factor, if not a main factor. This is the catalyst that THEN makes shoppers much more savvy and off they go, away from the high street.
Reduce taxes and we'll spend it. Its human nature.

Mr.Prodston · 17-01-2013 07:44PM

I'll just leave this article here:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cwkfidqlcwid/rss2/

Deals mainly with Cork but makes some very good points.

desertcircus · 17-01-2013 07:53PM

What's happening is nothing new; it's cheaper and easier to buy most things either online, where costs are drastically reduced, or in big-box retailers, who can drive down costs in a way that's impossible for smaller retailers. If I want an extremely specific product - say a particular model of carbon-frame bike with Campagnolo gears, a Prologo saddle and a set of custom aerodynamic handlebars - I can spend all day trying to find the nearest option available in all the bike shops in Dublin, or I can log onto Wiggle and filter the results, order it at a steep discount and have it delivered ready to ride. If I want something generic and straightforward - the new Dan Brown - off to Tesco I go.

phasers · 17-01-2013 08:12PM

I refuse to pay for parking when I'm going shopping (that includes Dundrum) or Dublin bus' ridiculous fares into town. I used to love going into town but it's such a fcuking hassle going in now as well as a total rip off.

Blanchardstown + the internet is all the shopping I need.

Whats Killing The High Street

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