HMV going into administration

justshane · 15-01-2013 02:09PM

Skid wrote: »

Just maybe they tried their hardest until the very end, to try to get a new line of credit from their suppliers. They didn't go into administration by choice. It was always a possibility and anyone with vouchers should have been aware that there was a risk.

They hoped that a good Christmas would be enough to get them more time. Sadly, it wasn't. If every retail chain who faced closure as a "distinct possibility" just gave up before Christmas, there would be precious few shops left.

Anyone with vouchers for any retail store should go out and spend them, not hoard them. Don't be left with worthless cards.

Maybe people are/where waiting for the product to come in stock?:rolleyes:

Mushy · 15-01-2013 02:10PM

sink wrote: »

QFT

I haven't bought a physical CD for a couple of years now. I have signed up for iTunes match with 100GB of my own music stored in the cloud and Spotify for everything else. I have all my music with me wherever I go be that at home, in work, in the car, or out and about using my iPhone, iPad, Laptop, Desktop, Sonos Hi-Fi system.

Putting a disc on seems so archaic to me.

But what if you want to just listen to an album the whole way through? And if the album isn't on Spotify?

Putting on a disc, reading the liner notes and immersing oneself in the cd is one of the best things about music.

abacus120 · 15-01-2013 02:13PM

I would not go in and abuse staff but 250 euro is a lot of money wasted,i feel like going in to them and screaming...............

Skid · 15-01-2013 02:20PM

justshane wrote: »

Maybe people are/where waiting for the product to come in stock?:rolleyes:

Well, that sucks for you. I hope you get something for your voucher but it always a risk.

TheDoc · 15-01-2013 02:20PM

abacus120 wrote: »

I would not go in and abuse staff but 250 euro is a lot of money wasted,i feel like going in to them and screaming...............

If the voucher was paid with cash they are obliged to take it. If they don't get onto the consumer affairs agency and they till take the case for you.

In fairness, I'm pretty sure you will get dumb brick wall excuses from ?HMV staff now, who got a letter outlining they are not to accept vouchers yet wont know the legality behind it. I'd go straight to consumer affairs regardless.

Corruptedmorals · 15-01-2013 02:21PM

Just remember, the staff in the stores had no input on the voucher policy, and abusing them gets you nowhere and won't change anything. It also makes you a dick, abusing the messenger, and the messenger who is about to lose their job too. This is standard practice for companies in administration and the reasons have already been explained, essentially people with vouchers are last in line after taxes, rent and suppliers have been paid. If there is anything left after that, then vouchers will be dealt with by the administrator. Of course they didn't stop selling vouchers and remained open over Christmas, they needed the boost to try to keep afloat and as already mentioned, if they stopped selling vouchers the share price would have collapsed and they would not be in the position they are in now, the possibility of being sold as a going concern.

Rail against having vouchers, rail against administration policies, but leave HMV staff alone.

Dravokivich · 15-01-2013 02:21PM

Penn wrote: »

I have, on several occasions, downloaded seasons of a tv show, and then gone out and bought the dvds. I've downloaded films and if I thought it was really good, went out and bought the dvd (which I wouldn't have otherwise). I've downloaded music and then gone to see that band in concert (which I wouldn't have otherwise). I've downloaded films and then gone to see the sequel in the cinema (which I wouldn't have otherwise).

I know how to download stuff for free. And by doing that, I have spent money on products I wouldn't have otherwise. Not everyone is like that, and a lot just download for free. But not everyone does, and in some ways, people downloading something for free can act as an advertisement for a sequel/next album/ next season of tv show etc.

You are not comparing like for like with these. In each instance you haven't bought the product you initially made use of and no matter how much people try to associate it, it's not the same as borrowing off a mate. This is the point people try to make about free/illegal downloads, but gets pushed back under the guise of supporting the artist by going to events, purchasing merchandise, or going to movies for sequels.

You've still for all intents and purposes haven't purchased it through any means. A lack of adaption for the move in marketplace is one factor which affected HMV. It's foolish to state free downloads hasn't.

sink · 15-01-2013 02:23PM

Mushy wrote: »

But what if you want to just listen to an album the whole way through? And if the album isn't on Spotify?

Putting on a disc, reading the liner notes and immersing oneself in the cd is one of the best things about music.

I often listen to a whole album through, it's actually the main way I listen to music and I don't rely just on spotify as I have iTunes match which stores my own music I upload myself in the cloud and wirelessly syncs to all my devices.

My commute is about an hour and I listen to music on my noise cancelling senns, so I usually listen to an entire album on my way into work and another on the way home. Instead of reading the liner notes, if it's a new band or album I will usually read their Wikipedia page and maybe checkout their website. If I'm really enjoying it I will check to see if they have any upcoming Irish dates.

I don't see any benefit to having the physical CD the liner notes are not that important.

magoko101 · 15-01-2013 02:24PM

Unfortunate for the staff... other than that... can't say I'd miss the place.

justshane · 15-01-2013 02:25PM

abacus120 wrote: »

I would not go in and abuse staff but 250 euro is a lot of money wasted,i feel like going in to them and screaming...............

plus 1... 300 down the fechn drain

seamus · 15-01-2013 02:27PM

sink wrote: »

I don't see any benefit to having the physical CD the liner notes are not that important.

It's sentimentality. In the same way that plenty of people still lament the death of the vinyl and not having a lovely big album sleeve with sleeve notes to look at while you listen to media the size of a platter.

Not mocking them now, just saying that some people see that as one of the key parts of the music experience. Most people don't though. I imagine many people have never looked at the sleeve notes on any of their albums.

15-01-2013 02:28PM

murpho999 wrote: »

I am amazed at the amount of people who have computers and internet but still buy CD's and DVD's?

On Sky News last week they covered the same item and people were saying 'Oh I prefer to have the physical device' or what if your hard disc gets damaged or what if you delete by accident.

Well apart from undelete, everything can be backed up in the cloud and retrieved anytime.

Also the likes of iTunes, your purchases are their always and can be retrieved at any time. So you can never lose anything.
Cheaper prices, good quality and instant delivery too. What more could you want?

The idea of having loads of space taken up by discs and the inability to play playlists that suit your own taste rather than being forced to listen to one disc at a time is awful to me now.

Embrace it people it's a great world once you go digital and it's not going to be stopped.

Apologies for going off topic but I can't agree with you Murpho.

CDs and DVDs don't take up that much space and I am much happier having a physical copy of something rather than a "licence" for a digital download backed up to god knows where.

I know that its old fashioned but I'll still have my music when others have dead URLs.

Penn · 15-01-2013 02:34PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

You've still for all intents and purposes haven't purchased it through any means. A lack of adaption for the move in marketplace is one factor which affected HMV. It's foolish to state free downloads hasn't.

But I have. Like I said, I've bought things which I've already downloaded. Breaking Bad for example. I downloaded Seasons 3 and 4 as they were being shown in the States. I have them on my hard drive. But when the dvds of them have been released, I've bought them. I downloaded Red State because it wasn't released in cinemas over here. When it was released on dvd, I bought it, even though I already had it. I downloaded one of Stewart Lee's dvds, which I then also bought, as well as his other ones. These are just a few examples.

I am definitely not saying free downloads haven't been damaging to HMVs business, of course it has. I was only responding to this:

hooradiation wrote: »

This doesn't follow. They may consume more media than other people, but they get that media for free. The idea that when given the opportunity to acquire something for free Vs paying for it that people would opt to pay for it runs counter to the basic human trait of wanting the most reward for the least effort.

My point was that even though many of us can and do get this stuff for free, we often pay for it too (even stuff we have already downloaded and therefore don't really need to buy), and in many cases, they are things we wouldn't have paid for if we hadn't downloaded them for free in the first place.

Mushy · 15-01-2013 02:38PM

sink wrote: »

I often listen to a whole album through, it's actually the main way I listen to music and I don't rely just on spotify as I have iTunes match which stores my own music I upload myself in the cloud and wirelessly syncs to all my devices.

My commute is about an hour and I listen to music on my noise cancelling senns, so I usually listen to an entire album on my way into work and another on the way home. Instead of reading the liner notes, if it's a new band or album I will usually read their Wikipedia page and maybe checkout their website. If I'm really enjoying it I will check to see if they have any upcoming Irish dates.

I don't see any benefit to having the physical CD the liner notes are not that important.

Tis a good way, but if wanna read the lyrics or see accompanying art work. Or see if the band have thanked certain people for whatever reason. Sometimes it can be a mini book, like with 1 cd I bought today.

Maybe there could be a case for bands putting more effort into them though.

Mimikyu · 15-01-2013 02:39PM

This post has been deleted.

seamus · 15-01-2013 02:40PM

1865 wrote: »

CDs and DVDs don't take up that much space and I am much happier having a physical copy of something rather than a "licence" for a digital download backed up to god knows where.

As was pedantically pointed out earlier on in this thread, a CD is no more a "physical" copy of music than an iPod is. They're both in a digital format, intangible without a player. The only difference is that a CD is unchangeable.

In reality a 64GB USB Key will hold the 100 CDs of music at actual CD quality. At High-quality MP3 levels (virtually indistinguishable from CD), the same USB Key will hold 534 hours of music - about 410 CDs worth of music. On something the size of your thumb. How much room does 400 CDs take up? A whole wall?

On top of that the USB key is virtually indestructible by environmental problems. CDs on the other hand can be scratched, can warp and will be destroyed if exposed to UV light for too long.

If you want long-lasting "physical" copies of your music then the only sensible thing is to put them on USB keys and lock them away.

TheDoc · 15-01-2013 02:52PM

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Thats a weird one, any idea what station so I can have a listen?

Only reason I say it is from my own retail background, and my mother had €500 vouchers outstanding for a home store that pulled the same thing, she got advice from the consumer affairs who informed her that as the voucher was paid by cash it would have to be accepted

I hope I'm mixing that up with "expiry" dates on vouchers, which is also bollox.

EDIt : Actually think I am mixing this up with expiry date on vouchers, ignore me, . Thats epic **** though if you have loads of vouchers you cant use : /

15-01-2013 02:52PM

On liveline now.

15-01-2013 02:54PM

seamus wrote: »

On top of that the USB key is virtually indestructible by environmental problems. CDs on the other hand can be scratched, can warp and will be destroyed if exposed to UV light for too long.

If you want long-lasting "physical" copies of your music then the only sensible thing is to put them on USB keys and lock them away.

Optical discs are considered a very good archival format by those with actual experience and knowledge of the field. I don't know of a single digital archive that uses USB thumbdrives.

UCDVet · 15-01-2013 03:01PM

I don't understand music 'rights' or 'licenses'.
I wish someone could just explain it to me in simple terms.

If I buy a 'song' online from a legit retailer and get a download link....what does that mean? Did I buy the file (the .mp3 or whatever) or did I buy the 'right' to personal copy of the song?

Let's say I buy a song from iTunes. Then, years later, I'm on a new computer - if I purchased the 'license'; can I just download a torrent of the same .mp3 or rip it from a friend's CD - since I have a license?

If I buy a physical CD - am I only buying that CD - or am I buying the rights to the songs? I know my parents had a lot of old vinyl records, but then they bought the same stuff on CD, and now even have some of the same songs on their mp3 players now. Did they waste money purchases three licenses to the same song?

Likewise, if I own a CD with a bunch of songs and then step on the CD or lose the CD - can I legally download a copy of the CD? Or was my license tied to the CD? I've heard before that I could 'back up' my CD - that is make a copy of it. But can I download it off the internet? Or do I have to perform the backup myself?

I've also heard I can record music off the radio. With cassette tapes, everyone I knew used to do it. But what about streaming music sites? Can I record them? None of them support that functionality - but if I turn my mic on while the speakers are playing music - I can record it. Is that legal? What if I save it and categorize it?

Then, people have written software that will automatically record the audio streams so I can save them without playing them. Is that legal?

I also play a lot of video games. If I buy a video game that has 30 songs inside the game....(like Tony Hawk something or other, when you play, it plays songs)....do I have a license for those? If I have a party - certainly - I can turn on Tony Hawk and turn up the speakers....since I own the game. But can I copy those songs to my mp3 player and listen to them on the bus? I have to imagine I'd be able to record myself playing the game....I mean, hey, it's my living room after all. So I could play the recording of the game which has the songs - but do I have the rights to the songs? Can I download those songs from a torrent site? The torrents would be digital rips of the CDs that had those songs - does that make a difference?

I really don't understand.

Likewise, if I buy a movie - how is it that I don't already own the soundtrack?!

I've also heard that, with digital media you purchase, the 'license' you get is non-transferable. So, that would mean you can't ever sell your old music or trade CDs with a friend, or even give your children your media collection after you die.

At this point it seems easier to pirate music. It's wrong, but at least I know it's wrong.

krudler · 15-01-2013 03:01PM

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Just remember, the staff in the stores had no input on the voucher policy, and abusing them gets you nowhere and won't change anything. It also makes you a dick, abusing the messenger, and the messenger who is about to lose their job too. This is standard practice for companies in administration and the reasons have already been explained, essentially people with vouchers are last in line after taxes, rent and suppliers have been paid. If there is anything left after that, then vouchers will be dealt with by the administrator. Of course they didn't stop selling vouchers and remained open over Christmas, they needed the boost to try to keep afloat and as already mentioned, if they stopped selling vouchers the share price would have collapsed and they would not be in the position they are in now, the possibility of being sold as a going concern.

Rail against having vouchers, rail against administration policies, but leave HMV staff alone.

This^ staff on the verge of losing their jobs don't need the abuse because of corporate decisions. They have zero input into the voucher policy. So don't be dicks.

seamus · 15-01-2013 03:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Optical discs are considered a very good archival format by those with actual experience and knowledge of the field. I don't know of a single digital archive that uses USB thumbdrives.

That's because optical formats can be "write once", which means they can't be intentionally or inadvertently altered later on. Kind of essential ingredients of any major archive.

You'll also find that the media are stored in an environmentally controlled facility with fire surpression systems.

For an individual's purpose though, and especially for media formats, that level of data security is not required and does not outweigh the benefit of a reduced footprint.

Allyall · 15-01-2013 03:02PM

No sympathy after they took 7 games off my 11 year old nephew (at the time) for an over 18's game, that had massive amounts of sexual content.

Apart from the stupidity of the manager in the UK after a complaint was made, When the game was brought back, none of the 7 games were handed back (that should never have been taken), and were replaced with a voucher for any one game.

Two of the games he changed were less than a month old. some of the others were pretty new too.

Good Riddance to them. Although they're not gone yet..

TwoShedsJackson · 15-01-2013 03:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

On liveline now.

Take one shot of your favourite drink each time the phrases 'it's a disgrace Joe!', 'I know my rights!' or 'a woman from Clontarf' are uttered.

ixoy · 15-01-2013 03:09PM

Traded in games yesterday for sixty euro in vouchers. If we had just waited one more day...
HMV on Grafton Street: Lots of staff around, many monitoring stock I think to stop thievery. Didn't thankfully see anyone getting abuse for decisions that have nothing to do with them.

VinLieger · 15-01-2013 03:12PM

Allyall wrote: »

No sympathy after they took 7 games off my 11 year old nephew (at the time) for an over 18's game, that had massive amounts of sexual content.

Apart from the stupidity of the manager in the UK after a complaint was made, When the game was brought back, none of the 7 games were handed back (that should never have been taken), and were replaced with a voucher for any one game.

Two of the games he changed were less than a month old. some of the others were pretty new too.

Good Riddance to them. Although they're not gone yet..

Very reasonable argument there for condemning 300 people to unemployment.... love how you only blame the store and not the parents lack of supervision of the 11 year old

krudler · 15-01-2013 03:15PM

Allyall wrote: »

No sympathy after they took 7 games off my 11 year old nephew (at the time) for an over 18's game, that had massive amounts of sexual content.

Apart from the stupidity of the manager in the UK after a complaint was made, When the game was brought back, none of the 7 games were handed back (that should never have been taken), and were replaced with a voucher for any one game.

Two of the games he changed were less than a month old. some of the others were pretty new too.

Good Riddance to them. Although they're not gone yet..

Really? hundreds of people possibly unemployed because of that? Every bad customer service story has two sides, bet this one has too

melekalikimaka · 15-01-2013 03:16PM

VinLieger wrote: »

ove how you only blame the store and not the parents lack of supervision of the 11 year old

the shop are responsible for what they sell not the kids parents

Allyall · 15-01-2013 03:19PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Very reasonable argument there for condemning 300 people to unemployment.... love how you only blame the store and not the parents lack of supervision of the 11 year old

No Sympathy for HMV.. Of course i have Sympathy for the staff, and I hope they get taken over by someone else..

I didn't condemn them to unemployment.

The lack of supervision was at a birthday party, where he had brought the games to play (With permission). And she did get an earful. But nobody went mad on her.
There was a fair bit of shock when his mother found out he was in the Shopping mall with the Birthday child, without an adult.

EDIT.
Also worth pointing out, Some of the staff obviously weren't capable of working there..

Mushy · 15-01-2013 03:19PM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

the shop are responsible for what they sell not the kids parents

The parents should know what game their kid was getting, would have saved a lot of bother. Not that the staff member should have sold it either.

HMV going into administration

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