Obsolete words that shouldn't be

pickarooney · 12-01-2013 9:49am #1

My grandfather often used the word 'ereyesterday' to describe the day before yesterday. I never thought much of it as there are quite a number of words and expressions which seem to exist uniquely within my father's family.

It was only years later when I learned the word 'eergisteren' in Dutch that it occurred to me that it might actually be an old English word, and so it turned out to be.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ereyesterday

Does anyone still use this term? It seems a pity to use the long-winded 'the day before yesterday' when there's a succinct form.

Any other words we should resuscitate?

Yakuza · 12-01-2013 10:27am

I quite like thrice (once, twice, thrice) and sennight (week).

pickarooney · 12-01-2013 3:01pm

I never heard of sennight before. Does it predate 'week'?

Jogathon · 12-01-2013 3:04pm

Ruthful. It's the opposite of ruthless, and it comes from the Old Testement where Ruth was a very good and thoughtful person.

Jaggy · 12-01-2013 3:21pm

Reminds me of a site called savethewords.org which i've unfortunately just discovered doesn't work any more.

It was about little used words that had been dropped by the Oxford English Dictionary but it was still interesting. Here's a Wired article about it.

smcgiff · 12-01-2013 3:25pm

Ye, as in did ye see that . I find it very useful, but its use seems to be frowned upon.

Yakuza · 12-01-2013 4:10pm

pickarooney wrote: »

I never heard of sennight before. Does it predate 'week'?

I'm not sure if one predates the other, but I think sennight is Middle English while week is German (woche), perhaps the latter eclipsed the former over time as speakers of Germanic origin gained influence at court in England? Trading (e.g. the Hanseatic League) is another way to influence a language too, I guess.

Earthhorse · 13-01-2013 12:34am

I still use ye and thrice. Why wouldn't you use thrice?

clairefontaine · 13-01-2013 1:23am

I like this one:

Deliciate
Verb intr. – “To take one’s pleasure, enjoy oneself, revel, luxuriate” – Often I feel the word “enjoy” just isn’t enough to describe an experience, and “revel” tends to conjure up images of people dancing and spinning around in circles – at least in my head. “Deliciate” would be a welcome addition to the modern English vocabulary, as in “After dinner, we deliciated in chocolate cream pie.”

From:
Read more at http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/20-obsolete-english-words-that-should-make-a-comeback/#VSeHtY2Tw08lDkQx.99

BigCon · 13-01-2013 1:33am

pickarooney wrote: »

My grandfather often used the word 'ereyesterday' to describe the day before yesterday. I never thought much of it as there are quite a number of words and expressions which seem to exist uniquely within my father's family.

It was only years later when I learned the word 'eergisteren' in Dutch that it occurred to me that it might actually be an old English word, and so it turned out to be.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ereyesterday

Does anyone still use this term? It seems a pity to use the long-winded 'the day before yesterday' when there's a succinct form.

Any other words we should resuscitate?

My father uses ereyesterday too. What part of the country is your grandfather from?

pickarooney · 13-01-2013 1:32pm

BigCon wrote: »

My father uses ereyesterday too. What part of the country is your grandfather from?

North Kilkenny by the Carlow border.

tac foley · 14-01-2013 12:39am

I like the local usaege of the 'imaginary' directions, 'hither', 'thither', 'whither', 'yonder' and 'hence' - all are very common in East Anglia where we presently live most of the time. I also hear 'ere' as in 'ere nine o'clock struck, ........'

tac

Custardpi · 14-01-2013 12:47am

Please, thank you & excuse me. Pretty much disappeared from people's vocabulary *shakes stick*

pickarooney · 14-01-2013 10:10am

tac foley wrote: »

I like the local usaege of the 'imaginary' directions, 'hither', 'thither', 'whither', 'yonder' and 'hence' - all are very common in East Anglia where we presently live most of the time. I also hear 'ere' as in 'ere nine o'clock struck, ........'

tac

Yon(der) was another great one of my granddad's.

Yakuza · 14-01-2013 11:37am

I like 'yea' ("yay") as in old usage of so"- e.g. "I'm looking for a box about yea big" (said while indicating how big with your hands, or by holding one hand off the floor). I hardly ever hear it said these days.

mike65 · 14-01-2013 11:50am

verily!

tac foley · 14-01-2013 12:12pm

Yakuza wrote: »

I like 'yea' ("yay") as in old usage of so"- e.g. "I'm looking for a box about yea big" (said while indicating how big with your hands, or by holding one hand off the floor). I hardly ever hear it said these days.

Ah so, Yakuza-san- just to let you know that 'yea' as in 'roughly this', is alive and kicking and living here in MY house, and all over Canada and the NWP USA.

I've certainly used it all my life that I can recall.

tac

pickarooney · 14-01-2013 5:10pm

I never knew that "yea big" was an old expression. I thought it was an American neologism.

edit:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Etymology-Meaning-Words-1474/yea-yeah.htm

tac foley · 14-01-2013 5:54pm

1960, eh?

Well. all I know is that I'm a good bit older that that, and my Uncle Geoff used to use it when describing crops as 'yea high' in the '50s.

Still, I won't argue with you, but smile and move right on.

tac

pickarooney · 14-01-2013 7:45pm

tac foley wrote: »

1960, eh?

Well. all I know is that I'm a good bit older that that, and my Uncle Geoff used to use it when describing crops as 'yea high' in the '50s.

Still, I won't argue with you, but smile and move right on.

tac

Sometimes you get that when a word is 'first referenced' by someone in authority and you realise that they just weren't listening to the right people before.

Yakuza · 14-01-2013 8:15pm

I first heard it from a friend's father who would have grown up in the Cavan-Leitrim area in the 1940's/1950's and it was normally used to describe heights back then, I'm a bit surprised to hear it described as a neologism, but who am I to argue with the Internet?

efb · 14-01-2013 8:17pm

Zounds ftw!

pickarooney · 14-01-2013 10:13pm

efb wrote: »

Zounds ftw!

Love that, and 'zblood!

efb · 14-01-2013 10:18pm

also egad(s)

ngetal · 24-01-2013 11:30am

Hey lads, my colleagues and I just discovered this thread looking for the correct pronunciation of 'ereyesterday' (we already use overmorrow daily). As I saw some of you have relatives using this word, could you give us a hint? Thanks!

tac foley · 24-01-2013 12:18pm

ngetal wrote: »

Hey lads, my colleagues and I just discovered this thread looking for the correct pronunciation of 'ereyesterday' (we already use overmorrow daily). As I saw some of you have relatives using this word, could you give us a hint? Thanks!

1. Welcome - although I really haven't been here long enough to say that, I guess.

2. Say 'AIR-yesterday'. There is a fada/French-style acute accent over the first 'e' - you'll see it spelled as éreyesterday.

3. 'Overtomorrow' is a new one to me, but is also mirrored in Old Norse and Old Swedish as well. It might, like me, be a survival from the invasion times of the 6-7-8th centuries...

tac

tac foley · 24-01-2013 12:20pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Love that, and 'zblood!

Yups, both of them are curtailments of oaths/exclamations from the late Middle Ages - 'God's Blood' and 'God's wounds'.

In Québec you'll here a LOT of formerly profane oaths/exclamations - like 'Tabernac!' and so on.

tac

r3nu4l · 24-01-2013 12:25pm

tac foley wrote: »

I like the local usaege of the 'imaginary' directions, 'hither', 'thither', 'whither', 'yonder' and 'hence' - all are very common in East Anglia where we presently live most of the time. I also hear 'ere' as in 'ere nine o'clock struck, ........'

tac

Norfolk? I've lived in Cambridgeshire and West Suffolk and can't recall having heard them used at all.

I use 'hence' a lot but not as a tool to indicate a direction.

tac foley · 24-01-2013 12:31pm

r3nu4l wrote: »

Norfolk? I've lived in Cambridgeshire and West Suffolk and can't recall having heard them used at all.

I use 'hence' a lot but not as a tool to indicate a direction.

I play trains along with three old boys in their 70's, and they ALL use them. All three have a lifetime working as farm labourers and traction/road locomotive drivers - the kind of things you'd still see at county show - and, in fact, all three still drive or fire some big steamers.

Perhaps the folks you knew were too high up the property ladder to use dialect, but all three of my acquaintances, talking together, are almost totally incomprehensible.

tac

Boulevardier · 24-01-2013 12:37pm

I have read recently (source not to hand) that "Eeny meeny miny mo" is very old indeed, and is thought to be in continuous use since prehistoric times.

endacl · 24-01-2013 12:43pm

We definitely should still be using the correct terms for the subdivisions on the imperial side of a ruler. The world would be a jollier place entirely if people still referred to the barleycorn (third of an inch), and the poppyseed (quarter of a barleycorn).

On a side note, thanks OP. Never thought I'd have the opportunity to drop these ones into a conversation!

r3nu4l · 24-01-2013 12:50pm

tac foley wrote: »

I play trains along with three old boys in their 70's, and they ALL use them. All three have a lifetime working as farm labourers and traction/road locomotive drivers - the kind of things you'd still see at county show - and, in fact, all three still drive or fire some big steamers.

Perhaps the folks you knew were too high up the property ladder to use dialect, but all three of my acquaintances, talking together, are almost totally incomprehensible.

tac

Well one lad I bowl with is a 72 year old Suffolk man, born and raised, worked as a labourer in his youth before working in a Suffolk Brewery as a truck driver, never got high on the property ladder I can assure you. I've never heard him say hither, thither or yonder.

Another lad is in his late 50's and works the oil rigs in the North Sea so maybe he has lots of money but he's no public schoolboy, it was all hard graft. Perhaps his years on the rigs have removed any dialect he had. Also I've attended the South Suffolk show for two years running now and while I've heard many local accents I've not really heard those particular words being used. I love dialect so it's nice to hear it in use naturally.

I'm not saying they aren't used, I was asking what parts of East Anglia you've heard them used in so that I can keep an ear out for them. Personally I heard distant relatives of mine from the back end of Cavan using 'yonder' for sure!

"Aye, he lives over yonder hill...'

tac foley · 24-01-2013 1:16pm

Boulevardier wrote: »

I have read recently (source not to hand) that "Eeny meeny miny mo" is very old indeed, and is thought to be in continuous use since prehistoric times.

Yes, pre-Celtic 'remembered' words, it is said, one of a number of 'counting' words or games that have survived. I posted something like this long ago, and cited the Cumbrian/Northumbrian sheep counting words, still used today in auctions and by shepherds -'Yan, tan, tethera etc'.

Those are Old Celtic - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera

tac

tac foley · 24-01-2013 1:18pm

endacl wrote: »

We definitely should still be using the correct terms for the subdivisions on the imperial side of a ruler. The world would be a jollier place entirely if people still referred to the barleycorn (third of an inch), and the poppyseed (quarter of a barleycorn).

On a side note, thanks OP. Never thought I'd have the opportunity to drop these ones into a conversation!

As a shooter, I'm constantly using 'grains' to describe the weight of bullets and propellant. Based on the actual weight of 7000 wheat grains to make a pound, ratified in the late medieval period here in UK.

tac

tac foley · 24-01-2013 1:24pm

r3nu4l wrote: »

I'm not saying they aren't used, I was asking what parts of East Anglia you've heard them used in so that I can keep an ear out for them. Personally I heard distant relatives of mine from the back end of Cavan using 'yonder' for sure!

"Aye, he lives over yonder hill...'

Sir, I'm not given to lying. I have no advanced linguistic theory to prove to anybody. All I know is what I hear them saying.

Where I live in East Anglia is moot, as two of them are from Norfolk and the other is from the borders with Suffolk. I live in neither county.

Like you I have an interest in languages, I use at least two, sometimes three, every day of my life, and have an excellent ear, like most polyglots.

My 'picky ear' was very helpful to me in Northern Ireland on occasions.

tac

r3nu4l · 24-01-2013 1:48pm

tac foley wrote: »

Sir, I'm not given to lying.

As we say in Dublin...Jayziz, relax de cacks will ya? I was just bleedin' askin'! There's dialect for you, though admittedly, not a dialect I employ very often

Seiously, I wasn't doubting that the terms are in use I was only trying to determine if they were localised to a small part of East Anglia rather than the whole region. I've lived in Cambridgeshire and West Suffolk for the best part of 9 years and hadn't heard them in use so I wondered if the dialect was perhaps more common in, (rural) Norfolk, for example.

I can understand local dialect being diluted in Cambridge (although the Cambridge town accent and some dialect does live on) due to the fact that it's a small city with a massive percentage of the population being international rather than local. The same goes for many towns in the region, language evolves more quickly and dialect becomes more infrequent in large towns so I assumed that perhaps these terms and this dialect were in daily use in more rural locations. As I live in the region, I'd love to hear it and now that I'm more aware of it, perhaps I will

As I say, in Cavan, thirty years ago at lease, my distant relatives used 'yonder' quite a lot. Personally I've used 'hithter' and 'thither' myself but not as part of any dialect, I usually use the words in conjunction with the phrase 'running about... ...like headless chickens'

I have no advanced linguistic theory to prove to anybody. All I know is what I hear them saying.

My interest is purely personal and not academic, I like words, I like language and dialects. I like the fact that Cornish is undergoing a resurgence, having practically died a long time ago, doesn't mean I will be writing a book on comparisons of Cornish, Welsh and Gaelic languages ad dialects any day soon

Anyway, apologies if I offended you and apologies for taking this off-topic...

As for overmorrow and ereyesterday, I find them to be excellent words and wish they were in more common usage, far less clunky than what we use in their place. Time to use them more often.

pickarooney · 24-01-2013 2:24pm

I'd never heard overmorrow used in English but discovered it via Dutch 'overmorgen' around the same time as 'eergisteren'

endacl · 24-01-2013 3:43pm

tac foley wrote: »

As a shooter, I'm constantly using 'grains' to describe the weight of bullets and propellant. Based on the actual weight of 7000 wheat grains to make a pound, ratified in the late medieval period here in UK.

tac

Its realy interesting* how some 'aincent' trades and crafts have held on to these little lexical gems. Adds a little mystery to the otherwise ordinary...

*interesting in a nerdy kind of way! If you get it, you get it!

tac foley · 24-01-2013 3:48pm

pickarooney wrote: »

I'd never heard overmorrow used in English but discovered it via Dutch 'overmorgen' around the same time as 'eergisteren'

In Germany the use of 'Uebermorgen' is still quite common.

tac

PS - no umlaut on this Japanese keyboard

tac foley · 24-01-2013 3:51pm

endacl wrote: »

Its realy interesting* how some 'aincent' trades and crafts have held on to these little lexical gems. Adds a little mystery to the otherwise ordinary...

*interesting in a nerdy kind of way! If you get it, you get it!

In Canada we still use 'cord' for a measure of a large bundle of wood.

Also, in spite of being metric for many years, PYO soft fruit like strawberries is sold in pints, quarts, 1/2 and full gallons - like ice-cream.:D

Should also point out that in shooting our old black powder firearms, particulary the military type, powder charges are measured in drams - 1 dram = 27.34gr. The service charge for the Enfield P53 .577cal rifle is 2.5 drams - 68.5gr - of fine rifle powder.

tac

endacl · 24-01-2013 3:58pm

tac foley wrote: »

In Canada we still use 'cord' for a measure of a large bundle of wood.

Also, in spite of being metric for many years, PYO soft fruit like strawberries is sold in pints, quarts, 1/2 and full gallons - like ice-cream.:D

Should also point out that in shooting our old black powder firearms, particulary the military type, powder charges are measured in drams - 1 dram = 27.34gr. The service charge for the Enfield P53 .577cal rifle is 2.5 drams - 68.5gr - of fine rifle powder.

tac

My favourite definition of 'dram', as it relates to the Scottish variety of a certain fiery beverage is 'a measure that pleases both guest, and host'. I've no idea who coined this one though.

tac foley · 24-01-2013 4:08pm

endacl wrote: »

My favourite definition of 'dram', as it relates to the Scottish variety of a certain fiery beverage is 'a measure that pleases both guest, and host'. I've no idea who coined this one though.

Ah, right. I recall the first and last time I tried it. I had just gotten in from school at around -30C and my uncle gave me a shot of this stuff.

Tasted like bat's p!ss.

That was in 1963 and I've never tried it since.

tac

endacl · 24-01-2013 4:14pm

tac foley wrote: »

Ah, right. I recall the first and last time I tried it. I had just gotten in from school at around -30C and my uncle gave me a shot of this stuff.

Tasted like bat's p!ss.

That was in 1963 and I've never tried it since.

tac

Tús maith, leath na hoibre. A good start is half the work.

Or not in this case! Try another now, while sitting in front of a roaring fire, and in good company. -30C is good, but only on the other side of the window!

Oh, and not as a shot. As a sipper.

tac foley · 24-01-2013 4:23pm

Gach fear grafóga a chéile féin.

I don't drink alcoholic beverages of any kind.

I have no roaring fire, nor do I have any good company except my own.

Sláinte!

tac

Yakuza · 25-01-2013 12:20am

endacl wrote: »

We definitely should still be using the correct terms for the subdivisions on the imperial side of a ruler. The world would be a jollier place entirely if people still referred to the barleycorn (third of an inch), and the poppyseed (quarter of a barleycorn).

On a side note, thanks OP. Never thought I'd have the opportunity to drop these ones into a conversation!

Here's another old measurement - the ell : it's about 45 inches (used to measure textiles). I came across it some 30-odd years ago when studying Romeo and Juliet for the Inter.

http://www.shakespeare-navigators.com/romeo/T24.html (look for " ell")

League (3 miles) has all but gone out of usage in the context of distance too.

P. Breathnach · 25-01-2013 3:06am

Since decimalisation and later the introduction of the euro, we have lost a lot of vocabulary connected with money, both formal and informal. No more guineas, sovereigns, crowns, half-crowns, florins, bobs, tanners. And tosser was not a term of personal abuse when I was a young fella.

The groat fell out of usage long before my time (which commenced earlier than the time of many posters here). Oddly, the Irish term for groat (tuistiún) survived at least into the 1960s in Connemara, long after the English word was obsolete.

endacl · 25-01-2013 3:56am

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Since decimalisation and later the introduction of the euro, we have lost a lot of vocabulary connected with money, both formal and informal. No more guineas, sovereigns, crowns, half-crowns, florins, bobs, tanners. And tosser was not a term of personal abuse when I was a young fella.

The groat fell out of usage long before my time (which commenced earlier than the time of many posters here). Oddly, the Irish term for groat (tuistiún) survived at least into the 1960s in Connemara, long after the English word was obsolete.

And 'guinea' is still on life-support, and in the tender care of the horsey set.

im invisible · 25-01-2013 5:53am

efb wrote: »

Zounds ftw!

pickarooney wrote: »

Love that, and 'zblood!

efb wrote: »

also egad(s)

gadzooks!

would you pronounce overmorrow 'over-morrow' or o'ermorrow? (i presume it means the day after tomorrow?)
my brother came out with tomorrow-orrow-orrow when he was 5 or 6 for the day after the day after tomorrow, i think we should start using that

fernenst/ fornenst, meaning situated against or facing towards
. "where's the kitchen brush?" "it's fernenst the door"

Irish Stones · 25-01-2013 8:46am

Yakuza wrote: »

I quite like thrice (once, twice, thrice) and sennight (week).

Sennight could be a contraction of seven night to say a week.
In Italian "week" is "settimana", where it's easy to see two different words, "sette" (seven) and "mana" an old form for "day" (mane), so when we say "settimana" we know it's a seven-day time even if we don't think of its origin.
I hope I made myself clear

Yakuza · 25-01-2013 10:42am

Irish Stones wrote: »

Sennight could be a contraction of seven night to say a week.

I'm sure that it is so (or at least the Middle English equivalents of these words). What's curious is that fortnight is still going strong (forteen nights, presumably of a similar origin to sennight) but sennight disappeared.

r3nu4l · 25-01-2013 11:28am

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Since decimalisation and later the introduction of the euro, we have lost a lot of vocabulary connected with money, both formal and informal. No more guineas, sovereigns, crowns, half-crowns, florins, bobs, tanners. And tosser was not a term of personal abuse when I was a young fella.

One currency unit that did survive for a while after decimilisation was the ha'penny but of course today, in Ireland, the word ha'penny belongs now to the bridge in Dublin so hopefully it won't fall completely out of use.

Obsolete words that shouldn't be

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