Another mass shooting in the U.S

StinkyMunkey · 12-01-2013 01:08AM

Sparks wrote: »

No, very illustrative of the point I was trying to make.
Do you think the paintball situation is the worst mistake in the law, or do you think I chose it because more people would understand the context better, given the rest of the post?

Ireland goes about its daily business, with no headlines regarding people running around shooting others with paintball guns or airsoft riflrs (apart from the odd postal worker shot with an air rifle).

Sparks · 12-01-2013 01:09AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Last i checked no one has gone postal with an airsoft rifle killing and maiming people.
Airsoft is exactly what it says on the tin, people running around playing War, the most you have to worry about is a cracked tooth or nasty bruise!

Really?
From Dermot Ahern's constituency:

IBA International

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqpTbBZB8eI

That's airsoft stuff he's using in there. Looks about as harmless to me as lead paint on a kid's toy...

Sparks · 12-01-2013 01:10AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Ireland goes about its daily business, with no headlines regarding people running around shooting others with paintball guns or airsoft riflrs (apart from the odd postal worker shot with an air rifle).

Er - we go around without seeing headlines, except for the odd headline we see?

StinkyMunkey · 12-01-2013 01:14AM

MadsL wrote: »

So it is only teachers and children you care about then. Gangland shootings in Ireland are OK in your book?

Which guns and why? "Big" guns is it?

I believe in personal responsibility mostly. I think the full auto ban is right, can't see the point in full auto for anything other than recreation - so ranges are OK to be licensed for full auto. You need an instructor with you at my range, I believe that is federal law.

As far as semi-autos are concerned, you can reach the same rate of fire with a lever action rifle from the 1890s so I really don't see the point in restricting them.

As to ammo controls, that won't work. There are far too many firearms out there for meaningful ammo control and you will simply create a blackmarket. Silly to make legally held weapons source ammo on that blackmarket.

Unless im mistaken we are talking about people going into a school shooting childern. Ive no issue with criminals killing each other, as long as some poor innocent person doesnt gets caught in he midddle, but unfortunately it does happen.

Do you think that its ok to own any weapon reagardless of the what it can do in the wrog hands?

MadsL · 12-01-2013 01:16AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Last i checked no one has gone postal with an airsoft rifle killing and maiming people.

Airsoft is exactly what it says on the tin, people running around playing War, the most you have to worry about is a cracked tooth or nasty bruise!

Ah. So because one person does one thing, everyone suffers. This is why we can't have nice things.

So if someone drives a car into someone, what is your logical next step?

Last time I checked, James Holmes looked a lot more like an airsofter than a target shooter. Given that you are so concerned how guns look (AR-15s for instance) shouldnt we also ban activities that teach people how to effectively shoot in combat/SWAT situations and avoid getting killed by return fire. After all, that is the closest situation to being an active shooter in a school

Looking at guys practising tactical military-style assault situations like airsofters and target Olympic shooters/people keeping a gun at home defense I have to be honest and say that you guys look a lot more dangerous.

Appearances being what this is about really, isn't it?

StinkyMunkey · 12-01-2013 01:17AM

Sparks wrote: »

Really?
From Dermot Ahern's constituency:

IBA International

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqpTbBZB8eI

That's airsoft stuff he's using in there. Looks about as harmless to me as lead paint on a kid's toy...

Well how many people have been killed with an airsoft rifle?

MadsL · 12-01-2013 01:19AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Well how many people have been killed with an airsoft rifle?

How many people have been killed by cars?

StinkyMunkey · 12-01-2013 01:19AM

MadsL wrote: »

Ah. So because one person does one thing, everyone suffers. This is why we can't have nice things.

So if someone drives a car into someone, what is your logical next step?

Last time I checked, James Holmes looked a lot more like an airsofter than a target shooter. Given that you are so concerned how guns look (AR-15s for instance) shouldnt we also ban activities that teach people how to effectively shoot in combat/SWAT situations and avoid getting killed by return fire. After all, that is the closest situation to being an active shooter in a school

Looking at guys practising tactical military-style assault situations like airsofters and target Olympic shooters/people keeping a gun at home defense I have to be honest and say that you guys look a lot more dangerous.

Appearances being what this is about really, isn't it?

And wle we are at it, ban video games aswell that depict wars.

Ive not seen it yet, but im sure at some stage some airsofter will unlease the fury n Irealnd.

StinkyMunkey · 12-01-2013 01:20AM

MadsL wrote: »

How many people have been killed by cars?

How many planes crashes kill people?

Ush1 · 12-01-2013 01:23AM

Cars? Videos games? What are they designed for? Aren't most firearms designed for killing things?

Sparks · 12-01-2013 01:27AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Well how many people have been killed with an airsoft rifle?

Hang on. Is that the criteria for what we ban?

And to answer you, you missed the point I was making which is that that IBA mob are basicly teaching you how to shoot other people, they're just using airsoft replicas instead of real firearms to get round Irish law. Granted, that lot are just Lord ShorttArse's mob, but that doesn't make the practice any the less dodgy; and really, isn't that the kind of thing we should be writing laws to prevent, instead of just trying to write simple "ban this" laws that are so easily circumvented?

MadsL · 12-01-2013 01:31AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

How many planes crashes kill people?

Exactly my point.

Out of interest, do you not think running around in combat gear with replica firearms practicing how to be an active combat shooter in an urban environment is a bit, y'know, disturbed.

If I can't keep a gun under my bed for home defence to keep the wife and kids safe, how come you get to practice being good at checking the corners and throwing flash-bangs and avoiding getting shot by a SWAT team?

Just sayin' from the outside Airsoft looks a bit sick. It would appear to be illegal under Irish law too...I believe it is illegal to train a private military force for combat in Ireland.

StinkyMunkey · 12-01-2013 01:33AM

Sparks wrote: »

Hang on. Is that the criteria for what we ban?

And to answer you, you missed the point I was making which is that that IBA mob are basicly teaching you how to shoot other people, they're just using airsoft replicas instead of real firearms to get round Irish law. Granted, that lot are just Lord ShorttArse's mob, but that doesn't make the practice any the less dodgy; and really, isn't that the kind of thing we should be writing laws to prevent, instead of just trying to write simple "ban this" laws that are so easily circumvented?

So no to airsoft or paint balling, but yes to real firearms?

My name is URL · 12-01-2013 01:36AM

Sparks wrote: »

Really?
From Dermot Ahern's constituency:

IBA International

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqpTbBZB8eI

That's airsoft stuff he's using in there. Looks about as harmless to me as lead paint on a kid's toy...

Maybe I'm reading your post incorrectly, but are you actually using that insane chancer to prove some point?

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/The_Baron_of_Castleshort

Sparks · 12-01-2013 01:38AM

Ush1 wrote: »

Cars? Videos games? What are they designed for? Aren't most firearms designed for killing things?

That's one school of thought.

Another is the Swiss school of thought, where they looked at what was actually killing people. End result, more firearms than anywhere outside of Somalia but incredibly low gun crime; but you drive over the speed limit and you're in incredibly deep ****e. Get caught (and traffic stops there are serious business - it's not two lads and a sign, it's half the cop shop on the side of the road to process as many as they can catch) and you're paying a percentage of your gross annual salary as a fine the first few times (and the percentage rises every time) and then they just pull your licence. Get caught driving without having removed all the snow from your windscreen, and that's your licence gone. And so on - things that we see on our roads every day here, would lose you the licence and possibly mean jail time over there.

End result of the crackdown on cars? In 2011, Switzerland had a death rate of 3.83 per 100,000 (source) while Ireland had a rate of 6.11 per 100,000 (source). And while our roads are mostly on the flat, Swiss roads look like this:

Personally, I think if you can get results like that, there's a lot to be said for how you're doing things.

Sparks · 12-01-2013 01:44AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

So no to airsoft or paint balling, but yes to real firearms?

I see I wasn't clear enough when I said "isn't that the kind of thing we should be writing laws to prevent, instead of just trying to write simple "ban this" laws".

MadsL · 12-01-2013 01:47AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

So no to airsoft or paint balling, but yes to real firearms?

Do you think training people to be effective in defensive SWAT situations is comparable to having a firearm for last resort as home defence tool. Really? You would defend one but not the other? Which is most comparable would you say with school shootings?

The absurd fact is that an instructor cannot train people in Ireland how to defend their homes effectively with a legal held shotgun, but you can buy cheap replica weapons including full auto and run around learning how to be highly effective James Holmes and Anders Breiviks complete with flash-bangs.

If you dislike that argument, do tell me why.

Sparks · 12-01-2013 01:48AM

My name is URL wrote: »

Maybe I'm reading your post incorrectly, but are you actually using that insane chancer to prove some point?

Actually I'm just using him as the most visible example. With Lord ShorttArse, we can all have a giggle, even about a fairly serious point. When you point out that Xe or whatever they call themselves these days do the same thing, it's not quite as funny.

The point being that with the same item - an airsoft replica - you can either have a few lads running about having harmless fun of a summer evening; or you can have a few lads learning how to kill people. So just banning the item isn't a very good legislative response because it has the kind of balance and nuance we last saw in Texas Chainsaw Massacre's sledgehammer scene. And our laws should be better than that.

StinkyMunkey · 12-01-2013 01:52AM

MadsL wrote: »

Do you think training people to be effective in defensive SWAT situations is comparable to having a firearm for last resort as home defence tool. Really? You would defend one but not the other? Which is most comparable would you say with school shootings?

The absurd fact is that an instructor cannot train people in Ireland how to defend their homes effectively with a legal held shotgun, but you can buy cheap replica weapons including full auto and run around learning how to be highly effective James Holmes and Anders Breiviks complete with flash-bangs.

If you dislike that argument, do tell me why.

Ok, so let me ask you a question: Is your right to bear arms worth the life of a child??

StinkyMunkey · 12-01-2013 01:55AM

Sparks wrote: »

Hang on. Is that the criteria for what we ban?

And to answer you, you missed the point I was making which is that that IBA mob are basicly teaching you how to shoot other people, they're just using airsoft replicas instead of real firearms to get round Irish law. Granted, that lot are just Lord ShorttArse's mob, but that doesn't make the practice any the less dodgy; and really, isn't that the kind of thing we should be writing laws to prevent, instead of just trying to write simple "ban this" laws that are so easily circumvented?

So when i go out at the weekends palying at war, running around like a lunatic shooting poeple with my BB's, im actually being trained as SWAT?

Sparks · 12-01-2013 01:57AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Ok, so let me ask you a question: Is your right to bear arms worth the life of a child??

And while you're answering that, when did you stop beating your wife?

Sparks · 12-01-2013 01:58AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

So when i go out at the weekends palying at war, running around like a lunatic shooting poeple with my BB's, im actually being trained as SWAT?

Y'know, you could try harder to troll.
But you'd have to really put your back into it...

MadsL · 12-01-2013 02:03AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

So when i go out at the weekends palying at war, running around like a lunatic shooting poeple with my BB's, im actually being trained as SWAT?

If you want to play silly emotional arguments let me ask you this. Why should you have the right to run around playing war games and getting good at storming buildings with replica full auto rifles whilst Mr Murphy who lives alone at the age of 70 in a rural farmhouse cannot under Irish law be trained by a firearms instructor to use his legally held firearm to defend himself against intruders?

If you think you haven't learnt combat skills from playing airsoft you must be pretty crap at it.

Why not ban it, it may stop giving someone ideas about how to storm a school. Don't you care about the children??

StinkyMunkey · 12-01-2013 02:08AM

MadsL wrote: »

If you want to play silly emotional arguments let me ask you this. Why should you have the right to run around playing war games and getting good at storming buildings with replica full auto rifles whilst Mr Murphy who lives alone at the age of 70 in a rural farmhouse cannot under Irish law be trained by a firearms instructor to use his legally held firearm to defend himself against intruders?

If you think you haven't learnt combat skills from playing airsoft you must be pretty crap at it.

Why not ban it, it may stop giving someone ideas about how to storm a school. Don't you care about the children??

So running around at the weekend taking part in a recreational activity when n one is harmed should be banned.

Are you high, when did i say a 70 yr old should just be cast out and left to the wovles.

StinkyMunkey · 12-01-2013 02:10AM

Sparks wrote: »

Y'know, you could try harder to troll.
But you'd have to really put your back into it...

So because i dont agree with your views, im a troll -.-

Please explain to me what relevance airsoft and paint balling have to do someone going into aschool murdering innocent adults and childern - seriously im all ears....!

MadsL · 12-01-2013 02:21AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

So running around at the weekend taking part in a recreational activity when n one is harmed should be banned.

So going to the range and punching holes in a piece of paper should be banned on the basis that someone used a gun to kill someone, somewhere once??

If one is harmless, what is the basis that the other activity isn't? is it the tool used? In that case why do we not ban cars, planes or other 'lethal' things. If you cannot see the inconsistency between on the one hand permitting intense combat scenarios from military training for 'fun' and then banning the ownership of firearms for defensive purposes.

Airsoft has one stated purpose. Fun. To the outsider it would look like a bunch of people training how to kill people. Or do you disagree? If so, how does Airsoft differ from practising assault situations in the same way Police and Army forces do so all around the world?

It is a bit like spending all your time on a flight sim crashing planes into buildings don't you think?

Are you high, when did i say a 70 yr old should just be cast out and left to the wovles.

I'm pointing out to you that it would be illegal for a firearms instructor to teach him practical self-defence with that shotgun, to defend himself against intruders but that the Airsoft crowd can legally teach anyone to storm a building and avoid getting shot by a SWAT team. They do it every weekend.

StinkyMunkey · 12-01-2013 02:26AM

MadsL wrote: »

So going to the range and punching holes in a piece of paper should be banned on the basis that someone used a gun to kill someone, somewhere once??

If one is harmless, what is the basis that the other activity isn't? is it the tool used? In that case why do we not ban cars, planes or other 'lethal' things. If you cannot see the inconsistency between on the one hand permitting intense combat scenarios from military training for 'fun' and then banning the ownership of firearms for defensive purposes.

Airsoft has one stated purpose. Fun. To the outsider it would look like a bunch of people training how to kill people. Or do you disagree? If so, how does Airsoft differ from practising assault situations in the same way Police and Army forces do so all around the world?

It is a bit like spending all your time on a flight sim crashing planes into buildings don't you think?

I'm pointing out to you that it would be illegal for a firearms instructor to teach him practical self-defence with that shotgun, to defend himself against intruders but that the Airsoft crowd can legally teach anyone to storm a building and avoid getting shot by a SWAT team. They do it every weekend.

Simple question - do airsoft rifles kill?

Another simple question - is the semi automatic rifle you fire at a rifle range capable of killing?

MadsL · 12-01-2013 02:30AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

So because i dont agree with your views, im a troll -.-

Please explain to me what relevance airsoft and paint balling have to do someone going into aschool murdering innocent adults and childern - seriously im all ears....!

Which one looks most like violence to you? Answer honestly. I'm all ears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDGJT7Fo92c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ-PZvFY98M

Sparks · 12-01-2013 02:33AM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

So because i dont agree with your views, im a troll

It's more the way you ignore what's posted and then post the most sensationalist tabloid nonsense looking for a rise from someone that makes it trolling, to be honest.

StinkyMunkey · 12-01-2013 02:36AM

Sparks wrote: »

It's more the way you ignore what's posted and then post the most sensationalist tabloid nonsense looking for a rise from someone that makes it trolling, to be honest.

I do not ignore whats posted, i simply post my views.

Because i think thats America could do with stricter gun laws does not make me a troll.

Another mass shooting in the U.S

Comments