Kenya suffers worst single loss of elephants as poachers kill 12

Professey Chin · 08-01-2013 09:18PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

That's a completely misinformed post.

I just call it bullshit

Magill · 08-01-2013 09:22PM

Damn chinks !

Oranage2 · 08-01-2013 09:24PM

mel.b wrote: »

This is just incredibly tragic news i went to Kenya on Safari at the end of 2011 and was lucky enough to see elephants in the wild. Our tour leader told us that the Kenya governement has contracted out the building of new roads in remote oarts of Kenya to Chinese companies, who bring in Chinese workers. These Chinese workers soon learn they can earn a hell of a lot more from killing an elephant than they ever will from helping build a road :mad:

Not only are these elephants lost forever, but it's more than likely some of them had babies. Elephants calfs are dependent on their mothers for the first two years of life so unless they have the great fortune to be rescued in time they will die also. Any almost half of the baby elephants that are rescued still pass away, because they were too malnourished too be saved, too young and some die just from the grief, stress and depression of witnessing and loosing their families.

To help combatnthis,nyou can sponser a baby elephant with the David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust based in Kenya. It is just $50 USD a year (it costs DSWT $9000 USD a year to raise a baby elephant). They were the first people to learn how to rear orphaned elephants (read the story the elephant they raised when they discovered the correct milk formula for them - you will need a box of tissues handy) and do amazing work in raising them and eventually returning them to the wild. I was lucky enough to visit them when i was in Kenya and the work they do is incredible.

www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org

There is also an iworry petition you can sign against the ivory trade...http://www.iworry.org/

That sounds amazing, i can only imagine the delight on the local children's faces seeing a baby elephant being looked after for 9k as they starve to death.

Scarinae · 08-01-2013 09:37PM

MadsL wrote: »

As sad as poaching is, elephants are not technically endangered any more and have become quite a pest, many reserves now shoot the cows with contraceptive darts to keep numbers down. Seeing the damage elephants do to the bush is quite astonishing, they are quite capable of killing every tree for miles around.

The 'damage' that elephants do to the bush is actually an important part of the ecosystem. Yes, they uproot shrubs and strip bark, but they have been doing so for around three million years and it can actually increase biodiversity.

Oranage2 wrote: »

Wild elephants are anything but gentle, they'd kill you out of spite for just being a human.

Have you ever been anywhere near a wild elephant? This is a genuine question. I have stood unprotected while a wild bull elephant walked within ten metres of me, and it didn't try to attack or kill me, it just walked past. The only time I've been in any way threatened by an elephant was when we drove around a corner and surprised a mother and its baby, it had signs that it was going to charge do we just drove away quickly. Elephants will attack if they feel threatened or they are protecting their young, not 'out of spite' - they are extraordinarily intelligent animals

Having said that, there have been other times where I have been very close to mother and baby elephants and they haven't paid any attention to us, we even saw a baby suckling once and the mother wasn't bothered at all that we were so near.

MaxSteele · 08-01-2013 09:38PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

That sounds amazing, i can only imagine the delight on the local children's faces seeing a baby elephant being looked after for 9k as they starve to death.

It is isn't it ? At least those children won't grow up to start poaching defenceless elephants anyway.

MadsL · 08-01-2013 09:38PM

Fcks sake people enough with the hate, all I said was that elephant populations have recovered to the point that many game reservations now control growth in population. Overpopulation by elephants is incredibly destructive in certain areas.

cherryghost wrote: »

Are you the poacher by any chance?

Yes. Yes I am. I am also Lord Vader. :rolleyes:

EnterNow wrote: »

Oh do the native animals damage our man made farms & environments? Aw, poor man...lets kill all the animals!

That's clearly not what I said. I assume you prefer not to live infested with rats for instance.

Seriously though, the sad part about this is not necessarily the killing of innocent & highly intelligent animals...its actually the fact they were killed by the so called smartest animals on the planet in the belief that the ivory tusks will make them last longer in bed & will cure all their diseases.

And this is why we ban ivory.

steddyeddy wrote: »

That's a completely misinformed post.

You seem to have the posting part of a discussion board down, want to try for the other part, y'know actually discussing.

In park areas, like in Kenya, savannah elephants are not endangered, but are a vunerable species. Poaching however has diminished and the species is recovering.

Care to tell me what is misinformed about that?

DrumSteve · 08-01-2013 09:40PM

Magill wrote: »

Damn chinks !

Ah no need for that now.

MadsL · 08-01-2013 09:41PM

Scarinae wrote: »

The 'damage' that elephants do to the bush is actually an important part of the ecosystem. Yes, they uproot shrubs and strip bark, but they have been doing so for around three million years and it can actually increase biodiversity.

I was referring to park (enclosed) environments and relative overpopulation.

MadsL · 08-01-2013 09:50PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

Ah no need for that now.

Grand bunch o'lads!

WindSock · 08-01-2013 09:54PM

On a good note though, I see a surge in sales of my 'Poach eggs, not Elephants' t-shirt line.

gobnaitolunacy · 08-01-2013 10:01PM

Magill wrote: »

Damn chinks !

Whitey did a fairly good job of killing thousands of elephants before the ban for......piano keys.

Noel Kinsella · 08-01-2013 10:03PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

That sounds amazing, i can only imagine the delight on the local children's faces seeing a baby elephant being looked after for 9k as they starve to death.

Its not the Elephants fault they are starving its their government.

MadsL · 08-01-2013 10:11PM

Noel Kinsella wrote: »

Its not the Elephants fault they are starving its their government.

Yes, famine in Africa is caused by African Governments. Now eat up all your dinner and think of the black babies.

Mother of God.

Noel Kinsella · 08-01-2013 10:31PM

MadsL wrote: »

Yes, famine in Africa is caused by African Governments. Now eat up all your dinner and think of the black babies.

Mother of God.

So you are condoning the murder of elephants so a handful of people can get rich ? I doubt the poachers are feeding the starving.

Mother of God.

08-01-2013 10:37PM

gallag wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/kenya/9787429/Kenya-suffers-worst-single-loss-of-elephants-as-poachers-kill-12.html

So sad, when will the chinese learn to stop buying ivory?

When their cocks grow.

They grind it up and snort it as viagra.

MadsL · 08-01-2013 10:39PM

Noel Kinsella wrote: »

So you are condoning the murder of elephants so a handful of people can get rich ?

Ah for fucks sake, I never condoned poaching, nor do I.

Read my posts please.

Maybe I should have just responded..."Ah, the poor eles, like if it meks u cry evrytim". Seriously, me commenting that in park areas of Kenya elephant numbers are controlled is not, nor will it ever be, condoning poaching.

And while you are up in arms, you might want to check the fact that Irish farmers and rough shooters have shot the curlew almost to extinction
http://www.birdwatchireland.ie/Publications/eWings/eWingsIssue22July2011/CatastrophicCurlewdeclinesuncovered/tabid/1189/Default.aspx

I doubt the poachers are feeding the starving.

Also in fact licenced and controlled elephant shoots are helping to provide vital money, aid and food for African villages.

liammur · 08-01-2013 10:40PM

This is a huge problem. I saw a documentary on it before, a rhino, game keepers cut off his horn so poachers wouldn't kill him, then it couldn't protect itself from lions. Catch 22

Bloody savages.

Myrddin · 08-01-2013 10:44PM

MadsL wrote: »

Yes, famine in Africa is caused by African Governments. Now eat up all your dinner and think of the black babies.

Mother of God.

It always amazes me that for such poor countries in Africa, they can afford to spend such colossal amounts of money on their military. If your naive enough to think most of these countries don't squander huge amounts of money to serve their own means, that really is a Mother of God moment.

The annual military budget of Ethiopia is over a quarter or a billion dollars. You'd think that'd feed a lot of those 'black babies' as you so eloquently put it wouldn't you?

Some folks need to open their eyes a little wider, and try see a picture bigger than the one ignorance paints.

BraziliaNZ · 08-01-2013 10:47PM

I really hate this high horse crap. Put yourself in an Africans shoes. No work, no money, no food. I'd probably be out killing rhinos and elephants and what not in that situation.
Why do you think only rich Westerners give a crap about animals? Because we have it all. We're far more responsible for raping the earth with the amount of stuff we consume, which means forests are cut down, palm oil plantations, etc, just so we can have year round crops of everything, and the latest gadgets and computers. Half the vegetables in Tesco, at least here in the UK, seem to come from Kenya for e.g.
Westerners are far more greedy than a few Africans hunting an elephant.

liammur · 08-01-2013 10:50PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I really hate this high horse crap. Put yourself in an Africans shoes. No work, no money, no food. I'd probably be out killing rhinos and elephants and what not in that situation.
Why do you think only rich Westerners give a crap about animals? Because we have it all. We're far more responsible for raping the earth with the amount of stuff we consume, which means forests are cut down, palm oil plantations, etc, just so we can have year round crops of everything, and the latest gadgets and computers. Half the vegetables in Tesco, at least here in the UK, seem to come from Kenya for e.g.
Westerners are far more greedy than a few Africans hunting an elephant.

The basic point you are missing is, all the people here are very much against just what you wrote. Killing innocent elephants isn't right just because others are cutting down forests.

BraziliaNZ · 08-01-2013 10:52PM

liammur wrote: »

The basic point you are missing is, all the people here are very much against just what you wrote. Killing innocent elephants isn't right just because others are cutting down forests.

But shouldn't we look at our own treatment of the environment before picking on poor hunters in Africa?
For e.g., in Ireland, there are no forests left, it's all gone, and every animal that lived in them. It's all been farmed and used up by our descendants.
Of course it's absolutely awful, poaching, but we're no better than them in my opinion.

Myrddin · 08-01-2013 10:55PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I really hate this high horse crap. Put yourself in an Africans shoes. No work, no money, no food. I'd probably be out killing rhinos and elephants and what not in that situation.

And what happens when such animals are hunted to extinction? Is endangering the very existence of a species worth a quick buck? I understand the motives are there for poorer people to do this, thats a given. Whats not acceptable though, is the value & demand richer countries place on the product...ivory in this case. Also, if giving a fuck about endangered species puts me on a high horse, how small minded are those that would judge me?

Why do you think only rich Westerners give a crap about animals?

I'm certainly not rich, yet I care about the matter. Also, plenty of the more educated natives see the value of the indigenous animals, so its not just 'rich westerners'.

Because we have it all. We're far more responsible for raping the earth with the amount of stuff we consume, which means forests are cut down, palm oil plantations, etc, just so we can have year round crops of everything, and the latest gadgets and computers. Half the vegetables in Tesco, at least here in the UK, seem to come from Kenya for e.g.
Westerners are far more greedy than a few Africans hunting an elephant.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, and to deny this would be hippo-critical.

Noel Kinsella · 08-01-2013 10:55PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I really hate this high horse crap. Put yourself in an Africans shoes. No work, no money, no food. I'd probably be out killing rhinos and elephants and what not in that situation.
Why do you think only rich Westerners give a crap about animals? Because we have it all. We're far more responsible for raping the earth with the amount of stuff we consume, which means forests are cut down, palm oil plantations, etc, just so we can have year round crops of everything, and the latest gadgets and computers. Half the vegetables in Tesco, at least here in the UK, seem to come from Kenya for e.g.
Westerners are far more greedy than a few Africans hunting an elephant.

When the Black Africans took all the farms off the White Farmers in south africa (which involved rape, torture, murder) then ended up giving the farms back because they could not run them through laziness and stupidity. Its very hard to help people who wont help themselves. I dont think White people should have ever gone to Africa it should be left to the Africans but if they destroy their country and wipe out species of animals I cant see how its westerners fault ?

liammur · 08-01-2013 10:55PM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

But shouldn't we look at our own treatment of the environment before picking on poor hunters in Africa?
For e.g., in Ireland, there are no forests left, it's all gone, and every animal that lived in them. It's all been farmed and used up by our descendants.
Of course it's absolutely awful, poaching, but we're no better than them in my opinion.

It doesn't sound like these were too poor to me, automatic rifles, they were a criminal gang.

I agree with what you say about our situation, there's massive cruelty here, but I'm not out gunning downs stags. Other f*ckers might be.

MadsL · 08-01-2013 10:56PM

EnterNow wrote: »

Some folks need to open their eyes a little wider, and try see a picture bigger than the one ignorance paints.

I agree. Which is why getting all misty-eyed over a poaching problem in a country where elephants are not endangered is rich coming from a country that is shooting its indigenous curlew population to extinction. That's the truth of the bigger picture. Here's another six categories of creature the Irish are killing. http://www.worldirish.com/story/11775-species-at-the-risk-of-extinction-in-ireland

I'm all for conservation, lets not confuse that with cute pictures of elephants, will we? How about starting in our back yards? Or are those snails holding up road construction to get us to work 10 minutes faster.

As to African famine, if you think African Govts suddenly behave like model countries after independence, then explain to me why so many people met violent deaths in Ireland post-independence? Blaming only Governments for African famine is as useful as blaming motorists for oil spills.

MadsL · 08-01-2013 10:57PM

Noel Kinsella wrote: »

When the Black Africans took all the farms off the White Farmers in south africa (which involved rape, torture, murder) then ended up giving the farms back because they could not run them through laziness and stupidity. Its very hard to help people who wont help themselves. I dont think White people should have ever gone to Africa it should be left to the Africans but if they destroy their country and wipe out species of animals I cant see how its westerners fault ?

*facepalm*

I can tell you have never set foot in Africa, but please don't.

Noel Kinsella · 08-01-2013 11:02PM

MadsL wrote: »

*facepalm*

I can tell you have never set foot in Africa, but please don't.

I only know what I have seen on TV and what my south African friends tell me. Is it all lies ?

Myrddin · 08-01-2013 11:03PM

MadsL wrote: »

I agree. Which is why getting all misty-eyed over a poaching problem in a country where elephants are not endangered is rich coming from a country that is shooting its indigenous curlew population to extinction. That's the truth of the bigger picture. Here's another six categories of creature the Irish are killing. http://www.worldirish.com/story/11775-species-at-the-risk-of-extinction-in-ireland

What the hell does it matter if they are endangered or not? They were killed for their ivory, in order for that to be sold on a market where its believed to have medicinal value. If you ask me thats a needless, brutal & frankly pathetic reason to kill an animal...any animal, not just cute little elephants.

I'm all for conservation, lets not confuse that with cute pictures of elephants, will we? How about starting in our back yards? Or are those snails holding up road construction to get us to work 10 minutes faster.

I agree, it should start in our back yards so to speak. This isn't necessarily a 3rd world/high horse problem, its worldwide. Its needless, & is never right.

As to African famine, if you think African Govts suddenly behave like model countries after independence, then explain to me why so many people met violent deaths in Ireland post-independence? Blaming only Governments for African famine is as useful as blaming motorists for oil spills.

No I don't expect them to behave like model governments, largely because I don't believe such a thing exists anywhere...let alone a struggling country. But don't tell me for a moment that resources could not be better spent to help those in need, rather than a fleet of new fighter jets. The goverments in the countries of Africa arn't responsible for a famine, but they and the 1st world countries who hold them in savage death are responsible for not doing enough to fight famine...all the while being highly corrupt & self serving.

MadsL · 08-01-2013 11:04PM

EnterNow wrote: »

It always amazes me that for such poor countries in Africa, they can afford to spend such colossal amounts of money on their military. If your naive enough to think most of these countries don't squander huge amounts of money to serve their own means, that really is a Mother of God moment.

The annual military budget of Ethiopia is over a quarter or a billion dollars. You'd think that'd feed a lot of those 'black babies' as you so eloquently put it wouldn't you?

Some folks need to open their eyes a little wider, and try see a picture bigger than the one ignorance paints.

Yes, the ignorance that fails to check that Ethiopia spends only 1% of its GDP on military expenditure, less than the Seychelles, Canada, Hungary and New Zealand.

Ignorance huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

Myrddin · 08-01-2013 11:08PM

MadsL wrote: »

Yes, the ignorance that fails to check that Ethiopia spends only 1% of its GDP on military expenditure, less than the Seychelles, Canada, Hungary and New Zealand.

Ignorance huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

A quarter of a billion dollars would help a lot of people over there...regardless of what percentage of GDP it is, don't you think? I'm not saying they should divert their entire military budget for humanitarianism or anything, my point is that there's more money in those countries than people think.

Kenya suffers worst single loss of elephants as poachers kill 12

Comments