Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

batistuta9 · 02-01-2013 11:20PM

emergingstar wrote: »

He had serious talent but a bad attitude

plenty of players have a bad attitude would be able to score more than 1 goal in the championship

maybe he'll turn out good but atm it's a case of another overhyped youth player

Soups123 · 02-01-2013 11:24PM

emergingstar wrote: »

Still think he would be better option than Walcott up front at the moment

Ah come on now, Theo is miles better at present. JC has a bit to go before he is anything more than a prospect

emergingstar · 02-01-2013 11:43PM

batistuta9 wrote: »

plenty of players have a bad attitude would be able to score more than 1 goal in the championship

maybe he'll turn out good but atm it's a case of another overhyped youth player

Don't think he will make it now, don't think he was overhyped either. Was really flying then it all went to his head

emergingstar · 02-01-2013 11:44PM

Soups123 wrote: »

Ah come on now, Theo is miles better at present. JC has a bit to go before he is anything more than a prospect

Can't agree Walcott up front I think is pants

DB10 · 03-01-2013 12:17AM

Walcotts good but hes not a lone striker, doesnt suit our formation ala Eduardo.

L'prof · 03-01-2013 12:35AM

DB10 wrote: »

Walcotts good but hes not a lone striker, doesnt suit our formation ala Eduardo.

Eduardo was great until his injury!

DB10 · 03-01-2013 12:37AM

He was still half decent after that aswell lost his pace though. Wenger had him wide in a 433 he was always going to fail there.

emergingstar · 03-01-2013 12:40AM

Walcott in a 442 yes
Walcott as a RW yes
Walcott as our central lone striker def not

Soups123 · 03-01-2013 12:46AM

I think a front 3 of Pod, Oxo and Walcott would work most weeks. Walcott has done well for the small amount of experience he has up there and if he can keep up his current scoring I wouldn't care what else he does.

The forward that he is means he will always be frustrating ala Henry, but he will get or create chances on a regular basis.

For the time he has been up there he has delivered.

In saying that he isn't world class but neither is any other forward we have at the minute

DB10 · 03-01-2013 01:00AM

I wouldnt even bother with a front 3 anymore its clearly not working. Having Walcott up front takes Giroud to the bench and shows how weak are wings really are.

Chamberlain should be an a impact player, Gervinho is pants get rid of him, Podolski the jury is still out there. Looks uncomfortable on the wing IMO.

Ed Winchester · 03-01-2013 01:22AM

Soups123 wrote: »

I think a front 3 of Pod, Oxo and Walcott would work most weeks. Walcott has done well for the small amount of experience he has up there and if he can keep up his current scoring I wouldn't care what else he does.

The forward that he is means he will always be frustrating ala Henry, but he will get or create chances on a regular basis.

For the time he has been up there he has delivered.

In saying that he isn't world class but neither is any other forward we have at the minute

You found Henry frustrating??

12gauge dave · 03-01-2013 07:52AM

If we dont qualify for champions League this year what then?

gosplan · 03-01-2013 08:57AM

12gauge dave wrote: »

If we dont qualify for champions League this year what then?

We all burn our jerseys and refuse to ever watch another match or say any word beginning with 'Arse...' ever again.

Seriously though. The champions league is sh1t anyway. Or at least it is until we get to the knock out matches where we drop league points either side of either two or four games before going out.

For some reason, us Arsenal fans are addicted to it because despite being smaller than Utd, Chelsea and City, it officially makes us bigger than Spurs. And this is how we've been placated by the 4th places finishes - not quite a trophy but until Spurs do really well, it guarantees St Tottingham's day, which we all have to admit is the bare requirement for us to tolerate a season should everything else go tits up.

I mean benefits of CL are what exactly??

1 Clog up our fixture list with meaningless group matches so we can scrape victories against random 2nd tier continental teams who can't defend while getting schooled by anyone half decent like Shalke?

2 Make 234 million extra each year and not spend it?

3 Perhaps a fair one is 'attract top level players' - and that could be redefined as 'attract Cazorla' because the rest of the fcukers could have stayed where they were. But we're now craving players from the squads of long term absentees from the champions league like Everton, Newcastle, Liverpool and Spurs - so what the fcuk is the point in this one anyway?

Fcuk the champions league.

Quazzie · 03-01-2013 09:05AM

Isn't all the money thats supposed to be coming our way performance related hinged on us qualifying for the CL?

12gauge dave · 03-01-2013 09:30AM

Yes i agree and i think it would be great if we didnt qualify for champions league. It would put huge pressure on club to come to the reality that the club is slipping and money needs to be injected and wage budgets increase and a look at the managerial position
Its all very well to say they never give wenger money and yes he is not given enough but evertons wage budget must be tiny compared to ours and theyre doing better.
Ii hope we finish 5th to rattle the club and fans and make everyone realise that CHANGE is needed on a big way

jordainius · 03-01-2013 09:36AM

12gauge dave wrote: »

Ii hope we finish 5th to rattle the club and fans and make everyone realise that CHANGE is needed on a big way

How can you call yourself an Arsenal fan and say that? If we don't qualify for the Champions League it could be very difficult for us to get back in, just look at Liverpool. Plus we'd only lose more of our best players and would have even more difficulty convincing top players to join.

Bounty Hunter · 03-01-2013 09:41AM

12gauge dave wrote: »

Yes i agree and i think it would be great if we didnt qualify for champions league. It would put huge pressure on club to come to the reality that the club is slipping and money needs to be injected and wage budgets increase and a look at the managerial position
Its all very well to say they never give wenger money and yes he is not given enough but evertons wage budget must be tiny compared to ours and theyre doing better.
Ii hope we finish 5th to rattle the club and fans and make everyone realise that CHANGE is needed on a big way

from my reading of how finances are dealt with at the emirates it would most likely not make the club inject extra cash to fix things. It's said that Arsenal will be able to spend more now after mostly dealing with the financial transition between stadia and in the summer with a few of the high earning duds off the wage (though im sure youd hope some would move before then) this may be even more likely to be the case. However should CL not be achieved and all that goes with that financially (not just what they get from participating but things like sponsorship deals that have rates tied into CL qualification etc) maybe the Arsenal board would think that they couldnt quite release those purse strings as much as they had hoped afterall.

12gauge dave · 03-01-2013 09:43AM

jordainius wrote: »

How can you call yourself an Arsenal fan and say that? If we don't qualify for the Champions League it could be very difficult for us to get back in, just look at Liverpool. Plus we'd only lose more of our best players and would have even more difficulty convincing top players to join.

I know but it might be the wake up call needed to club to invest big in players and question manager!
What were doing at the moment isnt working now lets be honest?

GeorgeBailey · 03-01-2013 10:30AM

12gauge dave wrote: »

I know but it might be the wake up call needed to club to invest big in players and question manager!
What were doing at the moment isnt working now lets be honest?

Almost certainly a good thing to miss out on champions league qualification. Certainly did Liverpool no harm... oh, wait...

gosplan · 03-01-2013 10:45AM

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

from my reading of how finances are dealt with at the emirates it would most likely not make the club inject extra cash to fix things. It's said that Arsenal will be able to spend more now after mostly dealing with the financial transition between stadia and in the summer with a few of the high earning duds off the wage (though im sure youd hope some would move before then) this may be even more likely to be the case. However should CL not be achieved and all that goes with that financially (not just what they get from participating but things like sponsorship deals that have rates tied into CL qualification etc) maybe the Arsenal board would think that they couldnt quite release those purse strings as much as they had hoped afterall.

I'm kind of with you in a way but will they just spend the fcuking money already.

I do worry that this financial picture we get of the club is just the owners financial picture - i.e. CL = money = success. I recognise that not getting the CL place would limit our disposable income but we've been doing nothing with it anyway.

So, if these new deals and all this extra money amounts to serious strngthening of the squad, then brilliant ... and believe me, nothing would make me happier than for Wenger to take this squad, strengthen it and bring the club back to where it, and he, belong.

But if it simply amounts to a continuation of the 4th place status quo, then what's the point of the last 7 years? A period of sustained hardship and the sacrifice of some of the best years of one of the greatest managers we'll ever have, and all for what? So the club can charge more people more money for tickets and become a decent investment vehicle for a billionaire? I mean what was the point of moving stadium? Why is being some Amercian billiionaire's sound invesement so much better than being some Usbieck nutjob's plaything?

I don't believe in the Jan transfer window so this clubs has this summer to convince me what it's true identity is - a sporting institution that actively looks to win trophies, or a good investment.

If it's the latter, then I'm with 12guagedave. I can support a losing team, i can support bad players, hell I'd probably support racists and rapists and Joey Barton as long as they looked like they gave a **** when playing for Arsenal. What I will not be able to support is a lack of effort or ambition. if Arsenal have been playing the long game, then we should find out this summer. However, if we find out that mounting a challenge on Utd or City would eat into our profits a bit too much then I'd find it hard to be too upset if those profits began to dissappear.

I fcuking hate Patrice Evra and I'm waiting for the club to ram those comments about 'Utd being a real club that looks to win things whereas Arsenal is just a training centre' down his throat, but he said them years ago and we still haven't. And Jack, bless him, does his best to kick him around the pitch every time we play them, but regardless of how much he does that, Evra's still right.

What people don't realise is that CL guarantees nothing. The idea that Liverpool or Tottenham are good examples of what can happen if you drop out of the CL. Years in the wilderness and so on.

What people don't seem to accept is that we've been in as much a wilderness as Liverpool have, only a profitable one. They've won a few major trophies since we have. They actually competed properly for a title since we have. What do we have to show for our years of continued CL participation?

Nowe I'm not saying i want to swap places but you can see the point. Liverpool are on the up, Spurs are on the up, we are exactly where we've been for nearly a decade and unless this summer is very different, we're not getting any closer to anything.

meriwether · 03-01-2013 10:47AM

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Almost certainly a good thing to miss out on champions league qualification. Certainly did Liverpool no harm... oh, wait...

Its a sort of 'destroy the village in order to save it' strategy. Sadly, the village is, ultimately, destroyed.

In other news, the internet is reporting (some site I never heard of) that we are going to sign old friend of the club, Yann M'Vila.

Dies anyone know whatever happened to Russian wunderkid Alan Dzagoev? He was flavour of the month there for a while.

meriwether · 03-01-2013 10:50AM

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Almost certainly a good thing to miss out on champions league qualification. Certainly did Liverpool no harm... oh, wait...

I note today they are paying Joe Cole 3m to LEAVE, and Nuri Sahin is goign to have his loan terminated.

Didn't they spend something like 5m on the Sahin loan deal?

gosplan · 03-01-2013 10:53AM

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Almost certainly a good thing to miss out on champions league qualification. Certainly did Liverpool no harm... oh, wait...

Rather than what harm it did Liverpool, can i ask how it benefitted us?

GeorgeBailey · 03-01-2013 11:07AM

gosplan wrote: »

Rather than what harm it did Liverpool, can i ask how it benefitted us?

As depressing as competing for the 4th place trophy is for Arsenal fans, competing for mid-table mediocrity is more so. Plus if financial fair play actually works (unlikely I know) or these mythical commercial deals come in to play in 2014 then Arsenal will be in a much better place to take advantage if they are still a champions league team.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 03-01-2013 12:01PM

gosplan wrote: »

Rather than what harm it did Liverpool, can i ask how it benefitted us?

CL certainly had a significant influence on us signing Arteta, Podolski and Cazorla at least.

jonneymendoza · 03-01-2013 12:33PM

Has walcott signed yet?

applehunter · 03-01-2013 12:43PM

Luke Moore's view on the Walcott situation.

from betfair.com

Despite being given the central role he craves in recent games, Theo Walcott appears no nearer to signing a new deal at Arsenal. Luke Moore believes the north Londoners would be be better served looking for new striking options than bowing to the player's demands

'Just pay him what he wants', pleaded Jamie Redknapp in a Daily Mail column last week like a Marks and Spencer-suit-wearing pundit-Caligula, lamenting that Theo Walcott hasn't yet been furnished with the reported £100,000 a week wages he and his representatives are demanding, alongside a guaranteed starting berth through the middle for Arsenal.

It would be amazing if the world was that simple and people were just paid whatever they wanted whatever their performance level or role. 'What's that? You've driven over a dog on your way in? Here's two million quid!' or 'What do you mean you've accidentally thrown all the servers out of a 15th storey window? Never mind, have £500k!' Everyone would be delighted all the time.

Consequences

Unfortunately, we live in a real life world of actual consequences and actions where important things like handing over north of five million pounds every year for the next five years to one individual with questionable decision making powers both on and off the pitch (seriously, look at that facial hair and earring combo) has to be thought about. Thought about with our brains.

Yes, Theo Walcott is Arsenal's top scorer this season, and yes he's showing flashes of finally becoming the player that Arsene Wenger thought he could mature into when he was persuaded to part with a potential £12 million for his services back in January 2006. But that's exactly the point: Theo Walcott (now approaching his 24th birthday) has never, ever shown anything more than flashes of being a decent football player. This is because, when judging him as a footballer, everything one is prompted to chalk up in the 'Positives' column is immediately followed by something to instantly scratch in the 'Negatives' column in return.

For instance, Walcott is fast, but he's also brittle. Walcott can finish well, but he doesn't always make the right decision when in front of goal. Walcott's defensive contribution is almost non-existent. Walcott's passing ability isn't at the top level. Walcott is Arsenal's top scorer this season, but a lot of those goals have been unimportant strikes, the football equivalent of smoothing the last dollop of icing on the Christmas cake your Mum spent all day baking and then running around the kitchen celebrating with your shirt over your head like a maniac, pointing at your confused mother, thanking her for the assist (Editor: Poor Mrs Moore).

All-round game

What's more, Theo isn't especially suited to the central role he craves in the formation Arsenal player either. He simply doesn't possess the all-round game to perform as the lone, central striker, despite all the talent around him. If we look at the other top strikers around the world that play that position for teams that Arsenal are supposedly competing with both here and abroad, he is clearly several rungs on the ladder below them. It is laughable to even compare him to the likes of Lewandowski, Cavani, Falcao et al.

Wenger and Gazidis should table Walcott an offer befitting his status as an important squad player and no more, and if he refuses to sign it he should be offloaded post-haste. If they are held to ransom by a player of his limitations it must be considered a depressing measure of how far they have fallen as a club in recent years.

Their efforts (and indeed their financial resources) should be occupied by trying to find a world-class forward who can supplement Olivier Giroud and help them push ahead with their season and keep their enviable Top Four record intact for another year.

There are no shortage of international class frontmen available. Arsenal may not be able to compete with Manchester City or Chelsea, but those two clubs aren't going to sign every single player that's available and Arsenal, provided they are prepared to part with some cash, are still an attractive prospect to a player. After all, if you're willing to spend the best part of £25m over five years on a player of Theo Walcott's drawbacks then why not push the boat out?

tayto lover · 03-01-2013 01:01PM

I think we should persist with Walcott on the right wing and Giroud in the middle and see how it works. I have serious doubts about Chamberlain. He might turn into a great player but his passing and attitude are not what they should be and to see one of our players pushing him (physically) to make tackles against Southampton was not a good sign. It shows he's lazy or happy to just be there.
I'd give him a rest just to remind him of his place. Still can't understand why Rosicky was left on the bench for Gervinho ???

Once again I am shocked by the lack of training ground work on crosses, corners and free-kicks. We have to be the worst team in the EPL at them apart from the 2nd half against Newcastle when we saw what proper crosses an do, then we saw them back to square one against Southampton.

A lot of our problems could be sorted on the training ground. That and the attitude thing. Now who is the person responsible for that again?

premierstone · 03-01-2013 01:29PM

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Ba would have been a decent signing but it's major upgrades we need and by most accounts he's not all that cheap when you include what are meant to be his pretty insane agent fees.

Marty McFly wrote: »

Even at the supossed 12 million after agent fees Id still consider him a bargain, top player whos a proven EPL goalscorer he certainly going to make Chelsea more of a threat. But hes gone to Chelsea now so hopefully Wneger has his targets sorted out along with one way or another sorting out the Walcott fiasco.

DB10 wrote: »

Ba is the closest thing we'll get to a top striker though. We sold arguably the best striker in the world so the only way is down. Unless we sign world class players like Cavani, Falcao Aguero or Lavezzi etc, then Ba is the best we can hope for.

Ba has half a knee incase we all forgot, he wasn't even able to do a medical at Chelsea never mind pass one and is a £12-15m gamble Arsenal certainly are not in a place to take, Chelsea on the other hand :rolleyes: There is no doubt in the world if he signed for us he would be crocked by the end of January, no doubt whatoever.

premierstone · 03-01-2013 01:32PM

12gauge dave wrote: »

Yes i agree and i think it would be great if we didnt qualify for champions league. It would put huge pressure on club to come to the reality that the club is slipping and money needs to be injected and wage budgets increase and a look at the managerial position
Its all very well to say they never give wenger money and yes he is not given enough but evertons wage budget must be tiny compared to ours and theyre doing better.
Ii hope we finish 5th to rattle the club and fans and make everyone realise that CHANGE is needed on a big way

I love the way this old chestnut gets thrown out the whole time, its boll*x btw the Everton wage bill is very high, Arteta had to take a pay cut to come to us. Moyes deserves great credit for the job he has/is doing at Goodison but it is not the shoestring budget we are all led to believe.

Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

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