[Long] VW Phaeton - soon to be bargain Used buy of the decade?

Barry Barry · 31-12-2012 06:40AM

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Friend of mine will be putting his Honda Legend up for sale in the next few days with test and less than 60k documented miles for under €1k - buy that.

Actually don't.

Oh now that is a fine car, and at that price! I'd nearly buy it if I didn't just buy my 106

Actually, the current model Legend seem to go cheap these days in the UK. Could be worth a look if you wanted something different but not a Phaeton,

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201243490007422/sort/default/usedcars/model/legend/make/honda/page/2?logcode=p

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201233482031349/sort/default/usedcars/model/legend/make/honda/page/2?logcode=p

Wonder how many of these are in Ireland?

I know it can't be compared to a Phaeton but again, if you want something different this is the thing to go for!

homer90 · 31-12-2012 08:02AM

Passat ............... PFT :pac:

Used buy of the decade ?

Unfortunately not in NZ, currently 1 listed on the donedeal equivalent, 2006 V6 TDi for a shade under 30k euro.

I would have a phaeton over anything else in that sector .

peasant · 31-12-2012 10:57AM

Most of you guys are missing the point.

The Pheaton was never meant to seriously compete with the 7 series or S class in terms of sales volume. Even VW themselves knew that they could never do that.

The Pheaton (like the Bugatti Veyron) is one of Ferdinand Piech's self indulgcences. Both cars were never really expected to be economically viable by themselves, instead they are a showcase of engineering, a poke in the eye of the supposedly top car makers to show them that VW can do one better.

AFAIK, to this day every Phaeton sold still costs the company money, but the internal trickle-down in engineering capabilities and more importantly the perceived lift in the eye of the public as far as the quality image of VW is concerned, must have been worth the investment.

If nothing else, the fact that every Passt owner now claims that " actually they're driving a small Pheaton" was probably worth the whole excercise

wonski · 31-12-2012 11:17AM

Matt Simis wrote: »

Personally I cant stand the look of the Flying Spur. The Continential GT yes, but the FS looks like you boxified a Phaeton. Granted people say the Phaeton looks like a Passat (which is incorrect as the Phaeton was out before the Passat of this gen, its the Passat that looks like a small, cheap Phaeton) but taking a step back.. thats not such a bad thing as the Passat isnt ugly. Common yes, but its not an unattractive car. And a not so stand out car solves the problem for people in "bad neighbourhoods" that want something nice but are afraid of theft, vandalism etc.

Now obviously Im slightly (alot) biased as I already owned a Phaeton, but in 3-dimensions it looks a lot less like a Passat. Related yes, but it has to be, its the flagship of the lineup. Here was my one; colour coded lower bumpers, lower bumper chrome trim from 2007 facelift, tinted and lowered and on 20" Audi S8 wheels:

No Passat has flared arches (again in 3d, in the metal very impressive), that Nissan GTR style boot/lights or the chunky but sleek panel fit and "4 door coupe" shape (ok the Passat CC does some of these too!). Also Phaetons have 8 to 11 layers of paint!

I didn't mean that i would like it to look like a supercar, and when i think more about this, that would be nice to have v10 hidden under something looking so "normal". I actually trust your judgement, and don't think it biased a lot - since you owned one you have an idea of how good the car is, and i trust you wouldn't spend serious money if you didn't believe it was worth it.
I sometimes regret i moved from UK, given what 3.5k could buy (not to mention motor tax differences). Wouldn't pay over 8k here for 04 model.
But it is nice to see how cars, that were well outside of budget and reach of regular driver, are getting cheaper and cheaper every year.
Imagine what the roads will look like in 10 years time...

Mr Benevolent · 31-12-2012 11:34AM

I've done a bit of research into the Phaeton and it really is a fantastic car. In four years I've seen one three times, and it's a fair possibility that it's the same car each time. Unfortunately there are very few for sale in Ireland, by dealer or privately. I doubt I'd ever go for one, but to someone with an eye for true luxury and handy with the spanners a Phaeton would be a gold plated bargain.

coolisin · 31-12-2012 12:03PM

It's a car I would understand why I loved the madness of the build, the demands, apparently, out of the CEO at the time, possible of 200 mph, while 200c outside maintain a temp of 20c inside the car!
It's a great example of engineering.

But I know my other half wouldn't like it because all she could see was the badge.

But to so many people they would think you've put a body kit on a passat.

Great post Matt, and to have owned one and not speculating makes it easier to read.
Thanks.

Marcusm · 31-12-2012 12:17PM

Taking Matt's advice on models, I have looked at the cost of bringing a 5.0 V10 TDI into Ireland from the UK. using a late 2004 (54 reg) model at £7,990 and 89,000 miles available on Autotrader, the VRT is an astonishingly LOW EUR2,081 as the OMSP is assessed at EUR5,781 (95% depreciation from EUR121,7909 list).

Unfortunately, the online calculator can't do a 4.2 V8 petrol!

Matt Simis · 31-12-2012 12:22PM

Marcusm wrote: »

Taking Matt's advice on models, I have looked at the cost of bringing a 5.0 V10 TDI into Ireland from the UK. using a late 2004 (54 reg) model at £7,990 and 89,000 miles available on Autotrader, the VRT is an astonishingly LOW EUR2,081 as the OMSP is assessed at EUR5,781 (95% depreciation from EUR121,7909 list).

Unfortunately, the online calculator can't do a 4.2 V8 petrol!

I checked the VRT on a few models and all are low, but that v10tdi VRT quote is excellent. I paid nearly 2k on the 1987 560sec VRT for comparison?!

I wonder of they would add the V8 to the list on request, it should be cheaper again..

Voodoomelon · 31-12-2012 01:29PM

Any word on reliability on the Phaeton? Due to the very few models out there and extremely limited online following, could these be the used buys of the decade or the ticking time bombs of the decade?

beaner88 · 31-12-2012 02:51PM

I like the idea of them but they were all slower and less fuel efficient in comparison to similar engined A8s, 7s or S classes.

beaner88 · 31-12-2012 03:12PM

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Its a luxobarge its not designed to be doing laps around the ring!

What a daft thing to say. Big luxury cars should be quick in a straight line. And why piss away fuel when there is no need? The car is too heavy.

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/volkswagen/phaeton/saloon-2003/

MugMugs · 31-12-2012 03:41PM

beaner88 wrote: »

. And why piss away fuel when there is no need?

Because you can/want to?

Which part of luxobarge do you not get?

beaner88 · 31-12-2012 03:45PM

Actually the slowest in the range will 60mph in 9.4s, worse than my old PD Passat. The standard 3L V6 diesel is 145mph and is well off the pace of A8 with the same engine. The 4.2 diesel also trounces the 5 litre V10.

I didn't know there were so many fans of cars going slower and drinking more fuel on this board.

wonski · 31-12-2012 03:54PM

Given the size and weight of the car, what did you expect? You don't take Phaeton for racing purposes, do you?
Actually the least discussed part of the discussion was performance, as OP already explained engine options at the start of the thread, and none of us expected this will drive as fast as Mercedes S-class AMG.

beaner88 · 31-12-2012 03:59PM

I'd have expected it to drive as fast as cars which are the same size and use the same engines given who much it was supposedly over-engineered.

You don't take a Rolls Royce on a race track so then buyers should be happy with 0-60 in 10s? Please stop arguing that same illogical point. Why did Audi engineer the A8 with an aluminium shell if all these buyers of luxobarges (3 grand worth of car that they might afford) were so unconcerned with performance or efficiency?
The car is also considerably narrower than the A8.

Marcusm · 31-12-2012 04:17PM

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Any word on reliability on the Phaeton? Due to the very few models out there and extremely limited online following, could these be the used buys of the decade or the ticking time bombs of the decade?

THere seem to be few with less than 100,000 miles for sale; I'd suspect that many commentators would have looked to jump on any weakness in the VW line. I suspect there are few major issues or common faults but I bet none of them are cheap to fix.

Marcusm · 31-12-2012 04:19PM

beaner88 wrote: »

Actually the slowest in the range will 60mph in 9.4s, worse than my old PD Passat. The standard 3L V6 diesel is 145mph and is well off the pace of A8 with the same engine. The 4.2 diesel also trounces the 5 litre V10.

I didn't know there were so many fans of cars going slower and drinking more fuel on this board.

I thought the point was that the Phaeton had a very rigid steel construction to promote the "luxury" feel as opposed to a lightweight aluminium Audi which is for vigorous driving. If they had equal performance, one of them would be pointless.

sob1467 · 31-12-2012 04:40PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JOtQ3m0kUY

Interesting review of the Phaeton by fifth gear done in 2004.

Lovely car but the fuel consumption would put me of it.

tossy · 31-12-2012 04:49PM

I think people are seeing a volkswagen and scratching their heads wondering why it can't get 50mpg

It's a large engine luxory car,fuel consumption isn't a consideration with these,same goes for any big BMW,Merc or Audi.

If the fact fuel consumption generally goes down as you go up shocks you then you might want to sit down when you that the V10 for instance will require 13 litres of oil every service which you would want to be doing at every 5k on a high miler.

I love when Irish motor-nomics are applied to proper cars "Wha??? Shes a V10 shure the tax id kill ya and shure you can only go 120 kph same as any other car"

daRobot · 31-12-2012 04:57PM

Beautiful cars. I was lucky enough to have a drive in Matt's one a few years ago.

That particular one, with the s8 wheels, was the Russian mafia style car of the decade. Amazing.

That said, it's the V8 petrol i'd be going for over the v10, and lpg'ing it. The V10 seems to be reliable enough, although there are a few documented engine failures on them, but the petrol is a much safer bet. The vwvortex forum online has a good bit of info on them.

daRobot · 31-12-2012 05:10PM

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Yeah but if you get the V10 you can say "I have a V10". Flip all V10`s on the roads anywhere if you think about it. Bar some supercars its a rare enough configuration.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, it's also a V10 that bellows out black smoke (no dpf) so the bragging rights are just a tad reduced by that.

A good ole' pedril, either W12 or V8 ftw for me.

Marcusm · 31-12-2012 05:18PM

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Yeah but if you get the V10 you can say "I have a V10". Flip all V10`s on the roads anywhere if you think about it. Bar some supercars its a rare enough configuration.

If you think that's rare, what about a W12? That being said, thanks to the Celtic Tiger, I'll bet there were many times more Bentley W12 than Phaeton W12s. Wouldn't surprise me if more Bentley W12s were sold in Ireland than Phaeton W12s in the whole of the UK.

dahamsta · 31-12-2012 05:47PM

I'll never understand the LPG thing. Ick.

Matt Simis · 31-12-2012 06:01PM

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Any word on reliability on the Phaeton? Due to the very few models out there and extremely limited online following, could these be the used buys of the decade or the ticking time bombs of the decade?

Well its part shared with the A8 and Bentley and there is a big and active (with some super dedicated members) Phaeton specific forum on VWVortex, so I wouldnt be too worried about parts or support.

The cars themselves should be marginally more reliable than A8s purely due to construction process and internal politics and while the steel body is heavier (and therefore slower Beaner88. Btw I had an S8 already so I can do legitimate comparisons) it also means its far far easier and cheaper to repair than an aluminium body like on the A8.

dahamsta wrote: »

I'll never understand the LPG thing. Ick.

Without derailing my own thread, these are perfect examples of LPG candidate cars.

I know some people here consider big engines, big cars as "low mileage, weekend, low commute" etc cars and drive a Corsa* or some crap during the week. F-that, you are paying the same tax and insurance on it if you drive it 10km or 20k km a year. So Im all on for driving an awesome car everyday. Only thing that stands in the way of that is the extortionate cost of petrol... enter LPG. Half the price, same performance, same noise, cleaner exhaust, smoother engine, cleaner oil.

There is literally no reason to "want" petrol other than unfamiliarity or owning a Jap engine (:) ) I ran the precursor engine to the Phaeton's V8, the 32V 4.2 V8 in the Audi S8, on LPG. Ask anyone here that was in it, there was no difference when switching fuels but it meant I could drive a V8 tank for the cost of a 1.9TDI.

Without LPG the market and future for V8 anything is relegated to the tiny few who want/afford a few select garage queens, petrol price is the death-knell for them. LPG is the everyman everyday fuel.

* Ok Im not really $hitting on Corsa's, but whatever frugal 4-pot people put up with for daily commuting.

unkel · 31-12-2012 06:06PM

dahamsta wrote: »

I'll never understand the LPG thing. Ick.

What's not to understand? If you drive 15k miles per year, you save yourself €3k in fuel. Every year. It's reliable, safe and if you have a 600l boot, there's plenty of space left even with the big tank in there

dahamsta · 31-12-2012 06:15PM

No Corsa outside my gaff MS, I'm offended at the very thought! 2.3l straight 5 and 2.2l straight 6 as daily drivers (plus a poor sad 4.4l v8 in next door's driveway, until I can afford the tax again).

I don't do a lot of miles though, so I'm not forced to bastardise these lovely cars. Not that I would anyway. And believe me, you've a hell of a lot more money than I do.

Matt Simis · 31-12-2012 06:21PM

dahamsta wrote: »

And believe me, you've a hell of a lot more money than I do.

Dont let my talking to talk mislead you! I wouldnt be advocating LPG so strongly if I didnt need to budget things.

beaner88 · 31-12-2012 07:09PM

tossy wrote: »

I think people are seeing a volkswagen and scratching their heads wondering why it can't get 50mpg

It's a large engine luxory car,fuel consumption isn't a consideration with these,same goes for any big BMW,Merc or Audi.

If the fact fuel consumption generally goes down as you go up shocks you then you might want to sit down when you that the V10 for instance will require 13 litres of oil every service which you would want to be doing at every 5k on a high miler.

I love when Irish motor-nomics are applied to proper cars "Wha??? Shes a V10 shure the tax id kill ya and shure you can only go 120 kph same as any other car"

Why are all those manufactures so desperate to push out efficient cars the past 5 years, even supercar brands. Next.

tossy · 31-12-2012 07:14PM

beaner88 wrote: »

Why are all those manufactures so desperate to push out efficient cars the past 5 years, even supercar brands. Next.

Lol at the next bit,is 'next' the new 'fact'

CianRyan · 31-12-2012 07:21PM

beaner88 wrote: »

Why are all those manufactures so desperate to push out efficient cars the past 5 years, even supercar brands. Next.

The new Ferrari F12 with a whopping 45 combined MPG.

[Long] VW Phaeton - soon to be bargain Used buy of the decade?

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