16 year old sentenced to 36 years for felony robbery.

dlofnep · 30-12-2012 11:32PM #1

Browsing youtube, I came across this documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3lw6PMjj40

It follows a number of youths, who have been sentenced as an adult and are kept in an adult prison (confined to a specific youth wing). One kid who is 15 got 30 years for killing his stepfather. It doesn't explain his motives, so it's difficult to comment on the circumstances of it and the rights/wrongs of the sentence.

However, one case that I found troubling was a kid who was 16 who was sentenced to 36 years for felony robbery. After hearing of his sentence, he wrote his parents a suicide note and hung himself - only to be rescued at the last minute. In his situation, I would probably have done the same.

Now, I'm all for punishing and rehabilitating young kids who fall on the wrong side of the law.. But 36 years is insanely excessive.

I know we have problems in Ireland with some sentencing being too lenient, but could anyone ever see it as justifiable to sentence a 16 year old to 36 years for robbery? In my view, 2 years in a juvenile home where he could rehabilitate would be a much more productive (and cheaper to the tax-payer) solution. The kid in question is apparently now a model prisoner, who's engaging deeply in education. But ultimately, it is a futile exercise as he'll be in prison until he is 52 - during which he will probably transform from a troubled youth into a genuine criminal. Such are the ways of prison.

This documentary is shocking. America's justice system is seriously messed up. Thoughts?

Red Hand · 30-12-2012 11:34PM

Justice system is sh*t/too lenient...justice system is too harsh.

AH, would ye ever just make up yer minds?

minidazzler · 30-12-2012 11:35PM

Red Hand wrote: »

Justice system is sh*t/too lenient...justice system is too harsh.

AH, would ye ever just make up yer minds?

Justice system is just wrong. It should be about rehabilitation, but it's really about punishment.

Rayne Wooney · 30-12-2012 11:36PM

dlofnep wrote: »

America's justice system is seriously messed up. Thoughts?

And in Ireland you get away with rape if you have a lot of money.

Pottler · 30-12-2012 11:38PM

minidazzler wrote: »

Justice system is just wrong. It should be about rehabilitation, but it's really about punishment.

3 years is punishment, 36 years is damnation.

Chancer3001 · 30-12-2012 11:38PM

that'll learn him etc etc

DarkJager · 30-12-2012 11:38PM

That's the right job for it. These young scumbags feel invincible from the law due to their age. Sentences like this knock that sense of invincibility out of them. No sympathy for him and we should have equivalent sentences for our own little scumbags in this country.

My name is URL · 30-12-2012 11:38PM

The way they implement the '3 strikes' rule is insanely rigid and counterproductive. There are tens of thousands of young adults serving massive sentences for being caught with drugs.

HondaSami · 30-12-2012 11:42PM

That sentence is harsh, i would be all for helping them turn their life around first and if that did not work then fair enough harsh sentence it is.

100200 shih · 30-12-2012 11:42PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

And in Ireland you get away with rape if you have a lot of money.

you don't have to have money to get away with rape in Ireland !! Just say sorry & promise you will never do it again & out the door they go

Red Hand · 30-12-2012 11:43PM

My name is URL wrote: »

The way they implement the '3 strikes' rule is insanely rigid and counterproductive. There are tens of thousands of young adults serving massive sentences for being caught with drugs.

Are the drugs they are caught with, legal?

aN.Droid · 30-12-2012 11:43PM

A justice system is hard to get right.

You have countries like America which would not even be the worst in the world for prison standards but yet they are still known as training camps for criminals. Con's go in and come out worse. Not applicable to some though as some are genuinely rehabilitated.

Then you have the other end of the scale such as norway where you have prisons such as this one: http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083_2137372,00.html

To quote wikipedia:
The maximum determinate penalty is 21 years imprisonment, but only a small percentage of prisoners serve more than 14 years. Prisoners will typically get unsupervised parole for weekends etc. after serving ⅓ of their sentence (a maximum of 7 years) and can receive early release after serving ⅔ of their sentence (a maximum of 14 years). In 2008, to fulfill its requirements under the Rome Statute, Norway created a new maximal penalty of 30 years for crimes against humanity.

Do you think this is too lenient to have so much comfort in a prison. The guards even play sport with them to promote relations between them. The guards aren't even considered guards, they are rehabilitation agents or something along those lines.

From what I understand the Norway system works very well but I can understand that it must be very expensive to implement something like that so you come back to places like Ireland that is somewhere in between. Inmates have comfort but not too much and the country can't afford them so usually give short sentences or are released early.

I don't know. It's a tough one.

mikemac1 · 30-12-2012 11:43PM

I don't understand this tried as an adult lark

Either you are an adult or you a minor

Why does it change case to case?

dlofnep · 30-12-2012 11:44PM

DarkJager wrote: »

That's the right job for it. These young scumbags feel invincible from the law due to their age. Sentences like this knock that sense of invincibility out of them. No sympathy for him and we should have equivalent sentences for our own little scumbags in this country.

So, all emotion aside - you firmly believe that 36 years for robbery is an apt punishment? You don't feel that 2-3 years, with focus on rehabilitation and education would be a better investment?

Let's say we imprison every thief (petty and more) to 36 years. What next? Well, we have an unsustainable prison population and zero rehabilitation.

I was a troubled youth. I used to hang out with the wrong crowd, and I was a wee bit of a scumbag. I acknowledge it. I failed my leaving cert, and felt hopeless. But I turned my life around, got away from drugs and the ilk that came with them - and went back to college and earned a degree. I know lots of my old friends who didn't, 3 of which who committed suicide because they were unable to escape the trap of poverty and lower class society. Had I have been sent to prison, I would have lost every last nuance of faith in myself, and would be on the wrong side of society right now.

Treat a person like slime, and they'll act like it. Give them some love, respect and faith - and they'll learn to love and respect themselves.

My name is URL · 30-12-2012 11:44PM

Red Hand wrote: »

Are the drugs they are caught with, legal?

Obviously not... but that shouldn't warrant being sent to prison for 25+ years.

aN.Droid · 30-12-2012 11:45PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

I don't understand this tried as an adult lark

Either you are an adult or you a minor

Why does it change case to case?

I believe if the crime they commit is so heinous then they are tried as an adult as it is believed that a child could not be responsible for such actions and would get a lighter sentence. Which they do not want.

3ndahalfof6 · 30-12-2012 11:46PM

We are the minions.

30-12-2012 11:46PM

Privately-run prisons present an issue as more prisoners=more income and corruption can follow. A judge was sentenced to a few years for taking kickbacks from a prison for being overly-harsh with his sentencing, a silly thing like a teenager having a bong resulting in a year in prison being the example mentioned in the article.

mikemac1 · 30-12-2012 11:47PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Treat a person like slime, and they'll act like it. Give them some love, respect and faith - and they'll learn to love and respect themselves.

The Brits had this

The media called it hug a hoodie :P

The King of Moo · 30-12-2012 11:48PM

DarkJager wrote: »

That's the right job for it. These young scumbags feel invincible from the law due to their age. Sentences like this knock that sense of invincibility out of them. No sympathy for him and we should have equivalent sentences for our own little scumbags in this country.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Some might feel like that, others would be well aware of the risks of getting caught and punished. You can't generalise about all 16-year olds everywhere, living in countries with different justice systems.

And do you really think it takes 36 years to teach them that crime doesn't pay? That's a very, very long time, and takes away basically the most crucial part of adult life from a person. Do you think that doing that to a person is necessary to punish them for a robbery and to teach them a moral lesson everyone knows at least by young adulthood? Do you think a few years in prison is an easy experience that might not communicate this lesson more quickly?
Do you entirely disregard the fact that this young man has clearly been rehabilitated to a great extent and turned his life around, but will be denied the chance to benefit society and provide a good example to young potential criminals by being locked up?

My name is URL · 30-12-2012 11:52PM

Very good article about mandatory sentencing in the NY Times froma couple of weeks ago

Stephanie George and Judge Roger Vinson had quite different opinions about the lockbox seized by the police from her home in Pensacola. She insisted she had no idea that a former boyfriend had hidden it in her attic. Judge Vinson considered the lockbox, containing a half-kilogram of cocaine, to be evidence of her guilt.

“Even though you have been involved in drugs and drug dealing,” Judge Vinson told Ms. George, “your role has basically been as a girlfriend and bag holder and money holder but not actively involved in the drug dealing, so certainly in my judgment it does not warrant a life sentence.”

Yet the judge had no other option on that morning 15 years ago. As her stunned family watched, Ms. George, then 27, who had never been accused of violence, was led from the courtroom to serve a sentence of life without parole.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/12/science/mandatory-prison-sentences-face-growing-skepticism.html?emc=tnt&tntemail1=y&_r=2&

Crazy stuff

DarkJager · 30-12-2012 11:52PM

dlofnep wrote: »

So, all emotion aside - you firmly believe that 36 years for robbery is an apt punishment? You don't feel that 2-3 years, with focus on rehabilitation and education would be a better investment?

Let's say we imprison every thief (petty and more) to 36 years. What next? Well, we have an unsustainable prison population and zero rehabilitation.

I was a troubled youth. I used to hang out with the wrong crowd, and I was a wee bit of a scumbag. I acknowledge it. I failed my leaving cert, and felt hopless. But I turned my life around, got away from drugs and the ilk that came with them - and went back to college and earned a degree. I know lots of my old friends who didn't, 3 of which who committed suicide because they were unable to escape the trap of poverty and lower class society. Had I have been sent to prison, I would have lost every last nuance of faith in myself, and would be on the wrong side of society right now.

Treat a person like slime, and they'll act like it. Give them some love, respect and faith - and they'll learn to love and respect themselves.

Yes I do, because he certainly won't be trying that again when he gets out. If it was up to me I'd have a 3 strikes rule, but not 3 strikes and you go to prison for a long time. If you end up in prison 3 times, it should be an automatic death sentence. If the first 2 stretches haven't educated someone to change from a scumbag to a decent human being, then there's no point allowing the cycle to continue. They obviously have nothing to offer society and no intention of reforming so strap them in and spark them up.

We are too soft in this country with this talk of rehabilitation and lenient sentences. Every week I read stories about some scrote with 20+ previous convictions gettin suspended sentences because they had a "tough childhood" or some other bull**** excuse. I say **** them. 20+ times in front of a court means that person is ingrained in the ways of being a scumbag and has no intention to change. Sure, we could just send them to prison, give them the kid gloves treatment and then release them, at which point they simply go and act the bollox again. Ultra severe prison terms and a threat of death would stop quite a few of those types in their tracks.

aN.Droid · 30-12-2012 11:59PM

DarkJager wrote: »

Yes I do, because he certainly won't be trying that again when he gets out. If it was up to me I'd have a 3 strikes rule, but not 3 strikes and you go to prison for a long time. If you end up in prison 3 times, it should be an automatic death sentence. If the first 2 stretches haven't educated someone to change from a scumbag to a decent human being, then there's no point allowing the cycle to continue. They obviously have nothing to offer society and no intention of reforming so strap them in and spark them up.

We are too soft in this country with this talk of rehabilitation and lenient sentences. Every week I read stories about some scrote with 20+ previous convictions gettin suspended sentences because they had a "tough childhood" or some other bull**** excuse. I say **** them. 20+ times in front of a court means that person is ingrained in the ways of being a scumbag and has no intention to change. Sure, we could just send them to prison, give them the kid gloves treatment and then release them, at which point they simply go and act the bollox again. Ultra severe prison terms and a threat of death would stop quite a few of those types in their tracks.

That view is pretty much as flawed as any to be honest. If the death sentence was a good deterrent then the prisons in say texas for instance would be empty rather then overflowing.

Rehabilitation rather than punishment is the way to go.

I mean by all means keep someone in prison for a full term of 30 years if thats what it takes to rehabilitate them but don't just leave them in there without the chance to better themselfs and educate themselfs.

Some sort of mandatory prison school system would be a good idea.

In Brazil, prisoners can reduce sentences four days by reading books and submitting book reports, cutting off up to 48 days each year.

dlofnep · 31-12-2012 12:00AM

DarkJager wrote: »

Yes I do, because he certainly won't be trying that again when he gets out. If it was up to me I'd have a 3 strikes rule, but not 3 strikes and you go to prison for a long time. If you end up in prison 3 times, it should be an automatic death sentence.

So, someone ends up in prison 3 times for drug abuse - You would call for the death sentence? I can see you've given this deep thought.

DarkJager wrote: »

Ultra severe prison terms and a threat of death would stop quite a few of those types in their tracks.

That's not what's reflected in reality. Harsh prison sentences or the death penalty do not prevent crime in most cases.

My name is URL · 31-12-2012 12:04AM

DarkJager wrote: »

Yes I do, because he certainly won't be trying that again when he gets out. If it was up to me I'd have a 3 strikes rule, but not 3 strikes and you go to prison for a long time. If you end up in prison 3 times, it should be an automatic death sentence.

What, for any offense that leads to prison time? You don't think it's a bit arbitrary? In the US for example, copyright infringement is a criminal offense and can lead to jail terms. Under the 3 strikes law; if such a thing was to befall a person; they could be sentenced to life. Would you want them put to death... because that's the sort of lunacy that ensues from those things.

Holsten · 31-12-2012 12:07AM

Norway has a brilliant system, based on rehabilitation. I believe they have some of, if not THE lowest rates of recidivism in the entire world.

Now contrast that with the States, once you're a felon they make it EXTREMELY hard to fit back into normal life.

Harsher sentences do NOTHING for stopping crime at all.

ITS_A_BADGER · 31-12-2012 12:10AM

DarkJager wrote: »

Yes I do, because he certainly won't be trying that again when he gets out. If it was up to me I'd have a 3 strikes rule, but not 3 strikes and you go to prison for a long time. If you end up in prison 3 times, it should be an automatic death sentence. If the first 2 stretches haven't educated someone to change from a scumbag to a decent human being, then there's no point allowing the cycle to continue. They obviously have nothing to offer society and no intention of reforming so strap them in and spark them up.

We are too soft in this country with this talk of rehabilitation and lenient sentences. Every week I read stories about some scrote with 20+ previous convictions gettin suspended sentences because they had a "tough childhood" or some other bull**** excuse. I say **** them. 20+ times in front of a court means that person is ingrained in the ways of being a scumbag and has no intention to change. Sure, we could just send them to prison, give them the kid gloves treatment and then release them, at which point they simply go and act the bollox again. Ultra severe prison terms and a threat of death would stop quite a few of those types in their tracks.

Thats a bit of a strong approach 3 strikes = death. I rather have them made to study the leaving cert as alot of them might not have it. Or give them some sort of education like a craft or some new skill so that when they would be released they would have leaned something to get themselves a job

Froyo · 31-12-2012 12:10AM

DarkJager wrote: »

If you end up in prison 3 times, it should be an automatic death sentence.

Bloody hell. Have you had a few beers too?

This is completely mental!

dlofnep · 31-12-2012 12:10AM

Holsten wrote: »

Norway has a brilliant system, based on rehabilitation. I believe they have some of, if not THE lowest rates of recidivism in the entire world.

This should be the most important qualifier for how to implement a prison system.

long range shooter · 31-12-2012 12:12AM

Holsten wrote: »

Norway has a brilliant system, based on rehabilitation. I believe they have some of, if not THE lowest rates of recidivism in the entire world.

Now contrast that with the States, once you're a felon they make it EXTREMELY hard to fit back into normal life.

Harsher sentences do NOTHING for stopping crime at all.

Yes one of the best systems in the world,and it works.

Norway is much less repressive than America is. Norway has one of the lowest incarceration rates in Europe at 66 per 100,000 inhabitants, compared to 738 per 100,000 inhabitants in the U.S.

Spunge · 31-12-2012 12:20AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5ZxdSXTLx8

16 year old sentenced to 36 years for felony robbery.

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