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Is Atheism a closed minded standpoint ?

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    #62
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,744 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Which God, because there's quite a few that are worshipped around the globe?

    Ps - did you knock at my door on Xmas morning? :D

    I am a Christian and no it was not me


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    #63
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,744 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    Why do you believe?

    Why well I believe we all here for some purpose in our life but with free will we may never reach it. I believe that the good will be rewarded and the bad will be punished. I don't know if I can but why I believe in to words I just do.


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    #64
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,744 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    Why would you call someone an idiot for having crazy beliefs? You might try and persuade the person their beliefs are crazy in the hope of helping them but as far as I can see there are plenty of not idiots out there with crazy beliefs.

    And what happens when people start to impose their crazy beliefs on others in society, say making children learn those beliefs to be true or forcing women to cover their whole body in public or forcing black people to work for nothing and have no civil liberties or killing people because of their sexuality?

    Of course the 3rd one there stands out because it's not technically based on a religious belief, but that's the point, no one said "Oh well that's just slave owner's beliefs. You shouldn't go around thelling them they can't own slaves."

    That is clearly wrong crazy beliefs or not. If someone follows a religion and it says to cover there body I do not accept that however that is there religion and that is what they do. As long as they don't try to make me change my religion then I say fine. In relation to killing people because of there sexuality that is very wrong. you say it in but I would say that is more extremists which you get in all beliefs (religions or atheist). By the way this thread is about religon's ans atheists so I am not talking about laws of a country.


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    #65
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,744 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    King Mob wrote: »
    That's not the question I asked you. I asked whether you also believe in things that are clearly fictional simply because you cannot disprove their existence?

    Or would you agree that it is reasonable to not believe in a fantastical entity for which their is no evidence until such evidence is presented?
    And do you thing there could be any evidence or reasoning that could possibly convince you that your belief in god is unfounded?

    Sorry you did mention god in your text. But in fairies then yes. I believe in angels I believe that my grandmothers, grandfathers and any of my friends who have died are looking down on me and hopefully looking out for me.


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    #66
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    martingriff wrote: »
    Sorry you did mention god in your text. But in fairies then yes. I believe in angels I believe that my grandmothers, grandfathers and any of my friends who have died are looking down on me and hopefully looking out for me.

    Good man martin - dont let them grind ye down


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    #67
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    martingriff wrote: »
    Sorry you did mention god in your text. But in fairies then yes. I believe in angels I believe that my grandmothers, grandfathers and any of my friends who have died are looking down on me and hopefully looking out for me.
    Ok, generally people don't believe in fairies, but I asked you originally to give an example of a being that you believe does not exist.
    My bad for assuming you didn't believe in fairies.

    So please tell us what fictional or imaginary entities do you not believe in and then explain how you can lack a belief in something without being able to disprove it exists.

    And again, is there any evidence or reasoning that could possibly ever convince you that your belief was wrong or unfounded, yes or no?


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    #68
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    King Mob wrote: »
    Ok, generally people don't believe in fairies, but I asked you originally to give an example of a being that you believe does not exist.
    My bad for assuming you didn't believe in fairies.

    So please tell us what fictional or imaginary entities do you not believe in and then explain how you can lack a belief in something without being able to disprove it exists.

    And again, is there any evidence or reasoning that could possibly ever convince you that your belief was wrong or unfounded, yes or no?

    Do you believe that perception is reality?


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    #69
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    martingriff wrote: »
    Sorry you did mention god in your text. But in fairies then yes. I believe in angels I believe that my grandmothers, grandfathers and any of my friends who have died are looking down on me and hopefully looking out for me.

    What about dragons and the Loch Ness monstor?


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    #70
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    john47832 wrote: »
    Do you believe that perception is reality?
    No.
    Your question makes little sense and has nothing to do with the points I am making.


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    #71
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    King Mob wrote: »
    No.
    Your question makes little sense and has nothing to do with the points I am making.

    Its a valid question... So you believe we all experience the same reality?


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    #72
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    john47832 wrote: »
    Its a valid question...
    No it's a random nonsense question that has nothing to do with my points or the topic. As is your other one.
    john47832 wrote: »
    So you believe we all experience the same reality?
    Yes. You are welcome to show otherwise.


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    #73
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    john47832 wrote: »
    Its a valid question... So you believe we all experience the same reality?

    What may seem to be reality for someone may be a mental illness so no perception is not reality.

    The question makes no sense in the current argument anyway.:confused:


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    #74
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    King Mob wrote: »
    No it's a random nonsense question that has nothing to do with my points or the topic. As is your other one.

    Your having difficulty with the question is hardly grounds for accusations of nonsense - maybe you just dont understand?
    King Mob wrote: »
    Yes. You are welcome to show otherwise.


    Ask yourself - is what martingriff perceives, his reality?


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    #75
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    What may seem to be reality for someone may be a mental illness so no perception is not reality.

    The question makes no sense in the current argument anyway.:confused:

    This subject that has the mentall illness - is this their reality?

    The question is within context given that Mob is challenging someones perception - is this really that difficult to understand, or would you class yourself as a sheep?


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    #76
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    john47832 wrote: »
    Your having difficulty with the question is hardly grounds for accusations of nonsense - maybe you just dont understand?
    I answered both of them clearly and concisely. What I don't understand is what your point is meant to be and what it has to do with my points or the topic.
    Maybe try explaining it.
    john47832 wrote: »
    Ask yourself - is what martingriff perceives, his reality?
    No.
    He can believe all he likes that he falls at an acceleration of 13m/s^2 and declare it until he turns blue. But reality says and can show that this is not the case.
    His belief has no effect on reality.
    Wishing something exists does not make it any more real than fairies or bigfoot or the jabberwocky.

    My question is to point out his contradictory beliefs. Unless he believes in all fictional entities, then there must be some he doesn't believe in some. And since he cannot explain how you can disprove one of these things exists, then he believes the atheist position is reasonable.
    And there's nothing to distinguish god from these fictional creatures.


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    #77
    dd972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭dd972


    Sorry lads, I asked for an Agnostic forum but they wouldn't give it to us !

    At least you get the nothingness, we're destined for purgatory :p


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    #78
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    martingriff wrote: »
    Why well I believe we all here for some purpose in our life but with free will we may never reach it. I believe that the good will be rewarded and the bad will be punished. I don't know if I can but why I believe in to words I just do.

    Can you see how your belief has no bearing on reality?


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    #79
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    dd972 wrote: »
    Sorry lads, I asked for an Agnostic forum but they wouldn't give it to us !
    Good. That would have been kind of pointless.

    MrP


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    #80
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,744 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    Can you see how your belief has no bearing on reality?

    Why?


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    #81
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,744 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    What about dragons and the Loch Ness monstor?

    So because I believe in a god or an angel I have to believe in everything?

    I answered that question already in this thread I have certain beliefs. There is a lot of things I don't believe in. Dragons yes been 1 and also the lock ness monster.


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    #82
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,744 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    King Mob wrote: »
    Ok, generally people don't believe in fairies, but I asked you originally to give an example of a being that you believe does not exist.
    My bad for assuming you didn't believe in fairies.

    So please tell us what fictional or imaginary entities do you not believe in and then explain how you can lack a belief in something without being able to disprove it exists.

    And again, is there any evidence or reasoning that could possibly ever convince you that your belief was wrong or unfounded, yes or no?

    I have answered this question before there are certain things i don't believe does that mean they don't exist no. It is a belief of mine not a fact.

    In relation to evidence I am quiet willing to listen to any and all evidence and claims are make a decision. I regularly listen to debates on gods or read person like from dawkins.


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    #83
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    martingriff wrote: »
    I have answered this question before there are certain things i don't believe does that mean they don't exist no. It is a belief of mine not a fact.

    In relation to evidence I am quiet willing to listen to any and all evidence and claims are make a decision. I regularly listen to debates on gods or read person like from dawkins.

    Well there you go, atheists just fail to see any evidence for a god, the way you fail to see evidence for other things, and remain to be convinced, just like you.


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    #84
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    martingriff wrote: »
    So because I believe in a god or an angel I have to believe in everything?

    I answered that question already in this thread I have certain beliefs. There is a lot of things I don't believe in. Dragons yes been 1 and also the lock ness monster.

    Martin. You were the one who stated that it is not possible to disprove god, a soul and so on. By that reasoning you can't discount anything. Magic teapots, loch ness monster, dragons, gods you probably don't believe in etc. etc. I simply consider it highly unlikely that any of these things exist and there is no onus on me to prove this. If you wish to believe in a god. No problem but you have to see that saying I can't disprove something is not a valid argument against the position I or others take.

    If I declare that I see no solid evidence that the Loch Ness Monster exists. You would probably agree with me.

    If I declare that I see no solid evidence that a god exists. You will disagree to the point that you have already saying I can't disprove his existence.

    So should I equally have to disprove the existence of Nessie to take my Atheistic position about her?


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    #85
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,744 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    mewso wrote: »
    Martin. You were the one who stated that it is not possible to disprove god, a soul and so on. By that reasoning you can't discount anything. Magic teapots, loch ness monster, dragons, gods you probably don't believe in etc. etc. I simply consider it highly unlikely that any of these things exist and there is no onus on me to prove this. If you wish to believe in a god. No problem but you have to see that saying I can't disprove something is not a valid argument against the position I or others take.

    If I declare that I see no solid evidence that the Loch Ness Monster exists. You would probably agree with me.

    If I declare that I see no solid evidence that a god exists. You will disagree to the point that you have already saying I can't disprove his existence.

    So should I equally have to disprove the existence of Nessie to take my Atheistic position about her?

    I agree there is no solid evidence for god its a belief I have you can take it or leave it in the same way its a belief to some that the Loch Ness Monster exists my point is I may not believe it it but I can't say to one who does that is diffently does not. I stress again I cant discout anything it does not mean I believe in it. I can be wrong you know me being human and all that


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    #86
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    martingriff wrote: »
    Why?

    Why would it? Just because you believe in something, take comfort in that belief, or wish that your belief were true, does not make it true in any way, shape, or form.

    There is a much proof for the existence of dragons as there is for God, God doesn't get given a pass because we'd like it if he did exist. A belief in God whilst simultaneously disbelieving in dragons because there's no proof they exist is illogical.


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    #87
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    martingriff wrote: »
    I have answered this question before there are certain things i don't believe does that mean they don't exist no. It is a belief of mine not a fact.
    But you have not answered why you don't believe in these other creatures despite not being able to disprove their existence.
    Why is it that it's reasonable for you not to believe in the Loch Ness monster etc, but it is not reasonable for us to hold the same position for god?

    There is no difference in evidence between God and Nessie
    martingriff wrote: »
    In relation to evidence I am quiet willing to listen to any and all evidence and claims are make a decision. I regularly listen to debates on gods or read person like from dawkins.
    So what evidence or reasoning would convince you?


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    #88
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    martingriff wrote: »
    No what I meant there is I would not go an tell the person there beliefs are wrong and crazy its there beliefs. I will think they are but i will not call them idiots.

    What if they call you immoral and depraved because of your beliefs?


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    #89
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    martingriff wrote: »
    I agree there is no solid evidence for god its a belief I have you can take it or leave it in the same way its a belief to some that the Loch Ness Monster exists my point is I may not believe it it but I can't say to one who does that is diffently does not. I stress again I cant discout anything it does not mean I believe in it. I can be wrong you know me being human and all that

    Pity Jesus didn't think the same way as you ...

    People seem to forget that Christianity, and most other religions, actively assert the truth of their religions. They don't just go "Well, believe what you want to, I'm not going to bore you with my beliefs".

    They tend to go "This is right, you are wrong" and normally there is a "and you're all going to burn in hell" in there somewhere as well.


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    #90
    mark renton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭mark renton


    King Mob wrote: »
    But you have not answered why you don't believe in these other creatures despite not being able to disprove their existence.
    Why is it that it's reasonable for you not to believe in the Loch Ness monster etc, but it is not reasonable for us to hold the same position for god?

    There is no difference in evidence between God and Nessie


    So what evidence or reasoning would convince you?
    Is your great uncle or aunt still alive Mob? And if not, how do we know they existed?


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    #91
    SebBerkovich
    Registered Users Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭SebBerkovich


    john47832 wrote: »
    Is your great uncle or aunt still alive Mob? And if not, how do we know they existed?

    I know where this is going... and no, sadly the bible sadly isn't evidence enough to prove the existence of anything... bla bla.. multiple sources... bla bla... extraordinary claims -> extraordinary evidence...

    whats else have you got though?


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