Nurses

TheUsual · 21-12-2012 12:29AM

Madam_X wrote: »

Coppers man eh?

See you there in 15 minutes. You read my mind Madam.

X

TheUsual

Odysseus · 21-12-2012 12:30AM

Madam_X wrote: »

That's what I assumed. Those salaries are spoken of as if they're entirely HSE funded. I do agree though the charges can appear pretty exorbitant on the surface - like, €150 just for a check-up and an opinion.

By the time they become consulant they are at the top of their game, in most cases you see them as they are deciding which course of Tx is the one you get. As regards your Tx the buck stops with them the carry the clinical responsibility for the members of their team.

However, yes it is a lot of money. If your private you will always see the consultant, if your public you will see one of their regs.

TheUsual · 21-12-2012 12:30AM

Odysseus wrote: »

Yes lots of them all for you
Big, hairy Psych Nurses

You had me at "Big".

Odysseus · 21-12-2012 12:34AM

Hogzy wrote: »

But they will bend over backward to get a private patient because they get a greater remuneration from private than they do from public patients.

But you need to practice as a nurse for at least 2 years to be elegible for a masters.

Yeah, I don't think that applies to them all, one of the ones my mam sees, made her a public patient when she got her a medical card to save her having to pay.

leanonme · 21-12-2012 12:36AM

Hogzy wrote: »

Its €22K, and agency work is becoming rarer and rarer nowadays. Remember, you were also paid for your placement all through college which these 2013 nurses will not have been.

Most students studying for there degree do not get paid for there placements so why should nurses.

I am a recently qualified graduate of Social Care and I would love for the government to give me this opportunity and so would the rest of my class. I would love to be given 21 thousand plus to gain this valuable experience.

Rasheed · 21-12-2012 12:38AM

Hogzy wrote: »

Its €22K, and agency work is becoming rarer and rarer nowadays. Remember, you were also paid for your placement all through college which these 2013 nurses will not have been.

I was not payed for my placement all through college. As I said, I got €50 a week to pay for travelling 300 miles for every week I was on placement til internship year.

As for agency becoming rarer, private work isn't.

Hogzy · 21-12-2012 12:40AM

leanonme wrote: »

Most students studying for there degree do not get paid for there placements so why should nurses.

I am a recently qualified graduate of Social Care and I would love for the government to give me this opportunity and so would the rest of my class. I would love to be given 21 thousand plus to gain this valuable experience.

Well considering during their placement they do a full week it is impossible for them to work another job in order to make some sort of spending money for themselves. Remember, nursing isnt a 9-5 job. You could have any shift on any day. How are you meant to organise a part time job while you are working 38 odd hours in a hospital on random days at random hours. Its dam near impossible.
Nearly everyone I know who did a placement (Finance, Engineering, BIS, Commerce) were paid. And they worked 9-5 Mon-Fri.

Odysseus · 21-12-2012 12:40AM

Rasheed wrote: »

I was not payed for my placement all through college. As I said, I got €50 a week to pay for travelling 300 miles for every week I was on placement til internship year.

As for agency becoming rarer, private work isn't.

You get a higher rate when doing agency isn't that correct? What about private what are the rates like there?

Hogzy · 21-12-2012 12:42AM

Odysseus wrote: »

You get a higher rate when doing agency isn't that correct? What about private what are the rates like there?

Yeah, you are paid a good bit higher but it can be hit or miss. Some days you may have work, others you might not. Relief work is becoming more popular now than bringing in agency staff (depending on the hospital)

swimming in a sea · 21-12-2012 12:47AM

all they have to do is a few years in Ireland get experience and then emigrate, as probably a lot like me know a nurse in Australia and she is on when shift allowance is accounted for $75,000 (just incase wondering that was her starting salary and she got offered job while in Ireland)

So easy to say Irish nurses should be just grateful for a job but you have to remember the whole world is a market place, if Ireland does not pay the money it will lose out on the best nurses.

donkey balls · 21-12-2012 12:47AM

I reckon the reason why the HSE is offering these new contracts for newly qualified nurses on a lower salary than what the current staff earn,Is because of the EU agency workers directive which came into law Dec 2011 which means that any person working through an agency has to be paid the same wage as a full time staff member.
With the HSE offering these new contracts to the nurses it means that they can get away without having to pay the agency staff the full time rate that they get at present,So there you have it an EU directive to protect workers and the govt are trying to undermine it.
Also the HSE could reduce the costs of nurses and other agency staff employed by agencies by hiring them directly, Agency workers are normally used by companies when there is a spike in business or to cover sick leave yet I know people working in the HSE through an agency for over 4 years.
If the HSE wants to reduce costs then why not hire the staff directly and not have to pay an agency a fee on top of the employee wage.

Rasheed · 21-12-2012 12:48AM

Odysseus wrote: »

You get a higher rate when doing agency isn't that correct? What about private what are the rates like there?

I did a month agency when our contracts were not renewed in January 2011. The flat rate was €22 an hour, not counting unsociable hours, night duty, of double bubble on a Sunday. Ridiculous money as I was qualified three months.

It was then knocked down to €14 an hour in Febuary 2011. No double time on a Sunday, no unsociable hours. It stayed at €14 until you were qualified two years when it went to €16. All agencies done this. €14 an hour, no holiday pay, no maternity pay, no sick pay.

I was on this pay scale until I got permanent.

Private rates, in my experience, range from €15.50 an hour to €18.

leanonme · 21-12-2012 12:49AM

Hogzy wrote: »

Well considering during their placement they do a full week it is impossible for them to work another job in order to make some sort of spending money for themselves. Remember, nursing isnt a 9-5 job. You could have any shift on any day. How are you meant to organise a part time job while you are working 38 odd hours in a hospital on random days at random hours. Its dam near impossible.
Nearly everyone I know who did a placement (Finance, Engineering, BIS, Commerce) were paid. And they worked 9-5 Mon-Fri.

Remember social care work is not a 9-5 Monday to Friday, they have the same shifts as nurses too. I did 9 months of work experience in college 12 hour shifts, any day of the week, etc, and so did the other 100 people in my course, and we never received any money, not even for travel expenses.

And yet even thou we never got paid for any college placements, we would still be grateful of this opportunity which is being opened to nurses.

I taught this was a very interesting piece, I know it is about the placements they do before they finish college, but it does give insite into this sense of entitlement that freshly qualifies nursing graduates have.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/student-nurses-should-not-be-paid-to-work-2537985.html

Why should they not have to take the same cuts as the rest of us. I'm about to start on an internship which will pay me 183 a week, which is far less than these nurses are offered.

Odysseus · 21-12-2012 12:50AM

donkey balls wrote: »

I reckon the reason why the HSE is offering these new contracts for newly qualified nurses on a lower salary than what the current staff earn,Is because of the EU agency workers directive which came into law Dec 2011 which means that any person working through an agency has to be paid the same wage as a full time staff member.
With the HSE offering these new contracts to the nurses it means that they can get away without having to pay the agency staff the full time rate that they get at present,So there you have it an EU directive to protect workers and the govt are trying to undermine it.
Also the HSE could reduce the costs of nurses and other agency staff employed by agencies by hiring them directly, Agency workers are normally used by companies when there is a spike in business or to cover sick leave yet I know people working in the HSE through an agency for over 4 years.
If the HSE wants to reduce costs then why not hire the staff directly and not have to pay an agency a fee on top of the employee wage.

Well there is a ban on agency staff in my part of the HSE currently; however, in the past I has seen agency staff in the same clinic for over a year; as the could not get the staff to employ.

Hogzy · 21-12-2012 12:51AM

leanonme wrote: »

Remember social care work is not a 9-5 Monday to Friday, they have the same shifts as nurses too. I did 9 months of work experience in college 12 hour shifts, any day of the week, etc, and so did the other 100 people in my course, and we never received any money, not even for travel expenses.

And yet even thou we never got paid for any college placements, we would still be grateful of this opportunity which is being opened to nurses.

I taught this was a very interesting piece, I know it is about the placements they do before they finish college, but it does give insite into this sense of entitlement that freshly qualifies nursing graduates have.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/student-nurses-should-not-be-paid-to-work-2537985.html

Why should they not have to take the same cuts as the rest of us. I'm about to start on an internship which will pay me 183 a week, which is far less than these nurses are offered.

What did you do in College may I ask?

big_joe_joyce · 21-12-2012 12:55AM

swimming in a sea wrote: »

all they have to do is a few years in Ireland get experience and then emigrate, as probably a lot like me know a nurse in Australia and she is on when shift allowance is accounted for $75,000 (just incase wondering that was her starting salary and she got offered job while in Ireland)

So easy to say Irish nurses should be just grateful for a job but you have to remember the whole world is a market place, if Ireland does not pay the money it will lose out on the best nurses.

australia is booming , its unrealistic to think anyone in ireland should be earning what their counterparts in australia take home

SEPT 23 1989 · 21-12-2012 12:56AM

Well said OP i watched the six one news in disbelief tonight when they said they were going to boycott a job with a two year contract,if they are going to blame anyone let them blame their older nursing friends and the "deal" they did with the government

If they are not happy leave,hopefully this is a taste of what yets to come

leanonme · 21-12-2012 12:58AM

Hogzy wrote: »

What did you do in College may I ask?

You may. I am a qualified Social Care worker.

Hogzy · 21-12-2012 01:04AM

leanonme wrote: »

You may. I am a qualified Social Care worker.

Sorry, what I meant to ask was what degree did you do in college? Did you do the work experience out of your own accord or was it a mandatory requirement in order for you to graduate?

leanonme · 21-12-2012 01:08AM

Hogzy wrote: »

Sorry, what I meant to ask was what degree did you do in college? Did you do the work experience out of your own accord or was it a mandatory requirement in order for you to graduate?

My degree is a B.A(Hons) in applied social studies in social care, and the placement is a mandatory requirement in order for social care worker to graduate. HIQA also require the placement, and this placement is the same in all colleges offering social care, and no one receives payment for said placement.

TheBegotten · 21-12-2012 01:13AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Well said OP i watched the six one news in disbelief tonight when they said they were going to boycott a job with a two year contract,if they are going to blame anyone let them blame their older nursing friends and the "deal" they did with the government

If they are not happy leave,hopefully this is a taste of what yets to come

Its pig-headed of them to boycott an offer of employment, yes, but you have to remember, (afaik, it might have changed) TD's can claim more than their SALARIES, just in travel expenses, whereas nurses, young, highly trained graduates, most likely looking to start a family are getting their expected income decreased. It may be their calling in life, but they still have to live.
Its all too easy to blame the public sector when most are honest, hardworking people doing their job as best they can.

swimming in a sea · 21-12-2012 01:18AM

big_joe_joyce wrote: »

australia is booming , its unrealistic to think anyone in ireland should be earning what their counterparts in australia take home

Your exactly right, that's why I said the world is a market place, so if we says nurses should not complain for been offered 22,000 euro job then we can't complain that they then leave for Australia.

podge3 · 21-12-2012 01:36AM

Chucken wrote: »

.....theres a world where we dont have to run and maby (unless you're a horse?!)

That was a series with a donkey, not a horse - or a nurse for that matter

crackcrack30 · 21-12-2012 01:46AM

What the general 'hoodwinked' public don't seem to get is that even if we stopped paying the public sector employees altogether , I mean not a dime, not an increment or an allowance would it make a blind bit of difference to our enforced national debt, our standerd of living or our pensions................... because every cent that the puppet government save, tax or cut, be it from student nurses or carers or cuts to childern allowences or taxes on wine & water is directed immediatly to pay interest (1 billion/mth) on loans and unsecured bonds in far off places,
-was it a crime to want to own your own home??
- Is it possible that We could do this much damage in , what?, 5 years ( 2002 to 2007) I mean we weren't fighting a world war in that period or anything..?

?
- I think an enquiry is well over due by impartial parties....

take everything · 21-12-2012 01:50AM

I only wish the IMO had someone like Doran.
Nurses think they are being hard done by.

Try: Newer NCHDs not being paid an allowance worth 10% of your pay even though it's explicitly outlined in the contract you signed.
And not a word about it in the media from the IMO.
That to me seems blatantly illegal.
At least nurses don't have to deal with blatantly breaching contracts.

Reoil · 21-12-2012 01:55AM

mountai wrote: »

Welcome to the real world. The practice of hiring in staff at rates below existing workers has been going on in the private sector for years. Yes it is a way of driving down costs and when your employer is bankrupt, whats wrong with that?. IMHO you have been offered a mighty deal , Two years contract . In the private sector, the average time is 6 months. Go on the dole if you dont like it , or emigrate.When the Croke Park agreement runs out just watch the disgraceful pay rates tumble, that is assuming of course the negotiators (on behalf of Us -- the hard pressed private sector workers} show some moral courage and backbone . Remember , the world does NOT owe you a living so get on with it and stop whinging.

I read as many of the ****-up replies to this thread as I could before replying, which was not many.
OP, you couldn't handle being a nurse. The long hours, the patients, the emotional stress (huge), queues of people who think they owe you something for nothing, the thankless work.
**** up. Tell you what - volunteer for a few weeks. My mother (ex-nurse) in her 70s from West Meath volunteers at my local hospital in the North for nothing. It's not about the money. To you it is.

Nurses owe you nothing.

Just wait until the day that they feed you, collect your s**t (not this s**t, your litteral s**t), and then wash you afterwards. Maybe then you'll understand.

F**k you.

Lone Stone · 21-12-2012 01:58AM

Ireland 2013

Rasheed · 21-12-2012 02:03AM

Reoil wrote: »

I read as many of the ****-up replies to this thread as I could before replying, which was not many.
OP, you couldn't handle being a nurse. The long hours, the patients, the emotional stress (huge), queues of people who think they owe you something for nothing, the thankless work.
**** up. Tell you what - volunteer for a few weeks. My mother (ex-nurse) in her 70s from West Meath volunteers at my local hospital in the North for nothing. It's not about the money. To you it is.

Nurses owe you nothing.

Just wait until the day that they feed you, collect your s**t (not this s**t, your litteral s**t), and then wash you afterwards. Maybe then you'll understand.

F**k you.

No it's not about the money. I wouldn't do any other job for the lotto. I love it, I love the buzz and I love the sense joy at helping people to be a little more comfortable, a little more pain free, a little less afraid.

But he has a point. The HSE is bankrupt. Not nurses faults. But to be offered a two year contract in an acute hospital in your own country is unreal. Yeah, the pay isn't hectic. But the experience is priceless.

They don't have to take it I'd they don't want to but if I was in their position, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

mountai · 21-12-2012 02:32AM

Reoil --- I think Rasheed has given you the perfect answer. I also truly believe you need treatment. Its all about THE REAL WORLD .

token101 · 21-12-2012 04:49AM

To be honest, I'd happily give the nurses the extra couple of quid and it's a tough job and I wouldn't do it for 22,000! It's one of the few areas of the public service that I'd support not being cut.

Nurses

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