Man gambles post office money

FlawedGenius · 19-12-2012 9:22pm #1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1218/court-tony-o-reilly.html

He had a 1.7mill loss on his pp account Tony10:eek:
Wonder did he post on here?:)

Paddy Power bringing him on trips as he was such a good customer:pac:

ConorCBS · 19-12-2012 9:26pm

Also said he has 8.3 million winnings over that time. That's surely wrong?

beaner88 · 19-12-2012 9:31pm

Did he net 8.3 million from 1.7 million of post office money? Probably a loss if he was betting 40K on the Norwegian ladies football team.

FlawedGenius · 19-12-2012 9:34pm

Hmm think Rte just worded it wrong, the fact that they were giving him free trips to sporting events suggests he was losing his bollox

beaner88 · 19-12-2012 9:35pm

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Hmm think Rte just worded it wrong, the fact that they were giving him free trips to sporting events suggests he was losing his bollox

Ha true enough. I think his account would have been shut before he made a tenth of that.

FlawedGenius · 19-12-2012 9:36pm

Going to try find posts on Norwegian ladies football:pac:

byronbay2 · 20-12-2012 2:13am

Despicable behaviour by PP in my opinion. They knew beyond any doubt that the guy had a serious gambling problem that would inevitably lead to personal catastrophe and did nothing to help him. On the contrary, they happily took him for every penny he had and every penny he could defraud his employers of - so much for their obligation to social responsibility and responsible gambling!
Please don't anybody reply with "They're running a business ..." etc. They make plenty of money without having to resort to this kind of behaviour. I'm pretty disgusted with the whole scenario really: a sick man gets sent to jail for 4 years because of his employers lax auditing (would he have got 4 years if he was caught after defrauding €50K) and a grasping bookmaker enabling and turning a blind eye to his addiction. Poor bastard, I hope he's released after 6 months like most of the real criminals in jail!

ConorCBS · 20-12-2012 2:17am

byronbay2 wrote: »

Despicable behaviour by PP in my opinion. They knew beyond any doubt that the guy had a serious gambling problem that would inevitably lead to personal catastrophe and did nothing to help him. On the contrary, they happily took him for every penny he had and every penny he could defraud his employers of - so much for their obligation to social responsibility and responsible gambling!
Please don't anybody reply with "They're running a business ..." etc. They make plenty of money without having to resort to this kind of behaviour. I'm pretty disgusted with the whole scenario really: a sick man gets sent to jail for 4 years because of his employers lax auditing (would he have got 4 years if he was caught after defrauding €50K) and a grasping bookmaker enabling and turning a blind eye to his addiction. Poor bastard, I hope he's released after 6 months like most of the real criminals in jail!

You said it yourself... at the end of the day, Paddy Power are a business. If they turned him away, he probably just would have went to Boyle Sports or Ladbrokes, etc. so it would not have solved the problem.

byronbay2 · 20-12-2012 11:17am

ConorCBS wrote: »

You said it yourself... at the end of the day, Paddy Power are a business. If they turned him away, he probably just would have went to Boyle Sports or Ladbrokes, etc. so it would not have solved the problem.

I don't really want to get into a big debate about this but I must say that PP have a code of conduct that precludes them from taking bets from people they believe might be compulsive gamblers. Also, all their staff are trained to spot the signs that a customer may have a problem and to offer them help and advice. All I can say in this situation is: FAIL!! A Post Office manager with a turnover of €10 million in his PP account?? If there was ever an obvious problem gambler, it was Tony O'Reilly.
Also, the old argument that "everyone else is doing it so we have to too .." is a moral failure that does not justify irresponsible behaviour. Whatever about an ordinary bookie, just scraping by and trying to keep his business afloat (still wouldn't make it alright imo) but PP are making record profits and are rolling in money. They also, famously, trade on their marketing as "The Punter's Pal" - well, they didn't do that punter any favours!!

handlemaster · 20-12-2012 11:22am

byronbay2 wrote: »

Despicable behaviour by PP in my opinion. They knew beyond any doubt that the guy had a serious gambling problem that would inevitably lead to personal catastrophe and did nothing to help him. On the contrary, they happily took him for every penny he had and every penny he could defraud his employers of - so much for their obligation to social responsibility and responsible gambling!
Please don't anybody reply with "They're running a business ..." etc. They make plenty of money without having to resort to this kind of behaviour. I'm pretty disgusted with the whole scenario really: a sick man gets sent to jail for 4 years because of his employers lax auditing (would he have got 4 years if he was caught after defrauding €50K) and a grasping bookmaker enabling and turning a blind eye to his addiction. Poor bastard, I hope he's released after 6 months like most of the real criminals in jail!

I would say a sick man got jail because he stole money. Just because the post office didn't discover it quickly doesn't exonerate him in any way. The post office trusted him and his reports on the money he provided.

byronbay2 · 20-12-2012 12:15pm

handlemaster wrote: »

I would say a sick man got jail because he stole money. Just because the post office didn't discover it quickly doesn't exonerate him in any way. The post office trusted him and his reports on the money he provided.

Don't get me wrong: he had to be punished for his crime but 4 years is a ridiculous sentence given the situation. Nobody was hurt, it was a first offence, he didn't enrich himself in any way and was merely feeding an addiction. 12 months would have served the same purpose as 4 years imo.
I also personally believe that PP should return the €1.5 million lost by Mr. O'Reilly to An Post. He was gambling, like all compulsive gamblers, with ZERO chance of winning i.e he would keep gambling until he had nothing left no matter how much he won at any stage along the way. That is why PP are so culpable - they knew the inevitable outcome better than anyone!

jkelly85 · 20-12-2012 1:58pm

byronbay2 wrote: »

Despicable behaviour by PP in my opinion. They knew beyond any doubt that the guy had a serious gambling problem that would inevitably lead to personal catastrophe and did nothing to help him. On the contrary, they happily took him for every penny he had and every penny he could defraud his employers of - so much for their obligation to social responsibility and responsible gambling!
Please don't anybody reply with "They're running a business ..." etc. They make plenty of money without having to resort to this kind of behaviour. I'm pretty disgusted with the whole scenario really: a sick man gets sent to jail for 4 years because of his employers lax auditing (would he have got 4 years if he was caught after defrauding €50K) and a grasping bookmaker enabling and turning a blind eye to his addiction. Poor bastard, I hope he's released after 6 months like most of the real criminals in jail!

Total agree with you 100%

Of course pp knew that he had a very big problem and of course nothing will be said or done to pp

ElChe32 · 20-12-2012 2:03pm

Paddy Power don't give a fiddlers if people have gambling problems at all, I signed up there about 6 months ago with 20 quid (lost it all within 10 minutes) get at least 2 e-mails a day from them with their "free bets" etc. Can only imagine what "big spenders" on their site must be getting

sbsquarepants · 20-12-2012 2:13pm

byronbay2 wrote: »

. Poor bastard, I hope he's released after 6 months like most of the real criminals in jail!

Ha ha, how much do you need to steal to be classed as a real criminal in your eyes?

Paddy power are a business - not fúcking social workers!

Warper · 21-12-2012 8:00pm

byronbay2 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong: he had to be punished for his crime but 4 years is a ridiculous sentence given the situation. Nobody was hurt, it was a first offence, he didn't enrich himself in any way and was merely feeding an addiction. 12 months would have served the same purpose as 4 years imo.
I also personally believe that PP should return the €1.5 million lost by Mr. O'Reilly to An Post. He was gambling, like all compulsive gamblers, with ZERO chance of winning i.e he would keep gambling until he had nothing left no matter how much he won at any stage along the way. That is why PP are so culpable - they knew the inevitable outcome better than anyone!

So you are saying that robbing €1.7m should equal a year in prison?? Wtf? If that was the sentence i would take the same and be out after 6 months if caught - yee haw.

clickerquicklic · 22-12-2012 11:36am

I agree thats why I hate bookmakers , the more you lose and bet on non value lines they just increase your limits up and up so you can lose more and more , if you win they decrease your limits , they know a problem gambler will just keep betting more and more . They should not have allowed this guy 40000 on some womens soccer match if they are not willing to allow people that know what they are doing bet the same amount . Bookies are all ******* thats why im happy to take tens of thousands of them every year , I like getting stuck in to paddy power when they have a silly offer in shop at cheltenham or when they did refunds if Barcelona won the champions league final against united (actually paid people to go around about 50 shops in dublin for that one ).

RandolphEsq · 24-12-2012 3:16am

It is probably 8 million profit and PP weren't happy so launched their own investigation which in turn lead to the criminal proceedings

ConorCBS · 24-12-2012 3:26am

RandolphEsq wrote: »

It is probably 8 million profit and PP weren't happy so launched their own investigation which in turn lead to the criminal proceedings

Not a hope Paddy Power let someone take 8 million of them without closing them down...

24-12-2012 3:49am

FlawedGenius wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1218/court-tony-o-reilly.html

He had a 1.7mill loss on his pp account Tony10:eek:
Wonder did he post on here?:)

Paddy Power bringing him on trips as he was such a good customer:pac:

ConorCBS wrote: »

Also said he has 8.3 million winnings over that time. That's surely wrong?

His total stakes amounted cumulatively to €10m, of that €10 million he won back a total of €8.3 million so the total loss was €1.7m

"When the account was examined, it was found that over the period of time it had had a turnover of €10m, with €8.3m in winnings and €1.7m in losses"

More or less what you'd expect to be fair, for example looking at a two option event, (Stoke v L'Pool on Wed next) Both Teams To Score Yes or No, both priced at 5/6 with Paddy Power at the moment, put €60 on both so for an outlay of €120 you get back €110 (PP taking 8.33%)

Post Office man no doubt indulged in the habit of chasing losses and was probably fairly sh1t at gambling too so PP got 17% off his turnover.

Even with a fairly poor staking plan most people would turnover €500 from a betting bank of €100 if they tried to remain somewhat sensible and hit a winner every now and than, so it's quite conceivable the €10m gambling spree was funded almost entirely by the Post Office money imo.

Zuko123 · 30-12-2012 7:48pm

I don't get the sympathy for this guy,he stole 1.7 mill from his employers so he deserved the sentence.The fact that he lost it all gambling just proves he is a total moron.Powers did nothing wrong,he is over 18 so can make his own decisions on how he spends his money.

bucketybuck · 30-12-2012 7:51pm

Man steals money from his employer = Paddy Powers fault. :rolleyes:

**** that noise.

Austria! · 03-01-2013 11:27pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Man steals money from his employer = Paddy Powers fault. :rolleyes:

**** that noise.

No one is saying that him stealing the money PP's fault. They're saying that by allowing that man to gamble the money he was in the manner he was, PP were profiting off this man's obvious addiction. That is PP's fault.

Zuko123 · 03-01-2013 11:47pm

Austria! wrote: »

No one is saying that him stealing the money PP's fault. They're saying that by allowing that man to gamble the money he was in the manner he was, PP were profiting off this man's obvious addiction. That is PP's fault.

Of course they were profiting,they are a bookies,bookies profit when people lose money from gambling.So now a business is wrong to make a profit?

beaner88 · 04-01-2013 12:22am

Zuko123 wrote: »

Of course they were profiting,they are a bookies,bookies profit when people lose money from gambling.So now a business is wrong to make a profit?

He clearly had a major gambling addiction and they were doing everything in their power to facilitate him.

Zuko123 · 04-01-2013 2:21am

beaner88 wrote: »

He clearly had a major gambling addiction and they were doing everything in their power to facilitate him.

Of course they did,if you owned a take-away would you bar fat people?

beaner88 · 04-01-2013 6:42pm

Zuko123 wrote: »

Of course they did,if you owned a take-away would you bar fat people?

Your analogy doesn't fit very well. Let me turn it into a comparable destructive addiction. Would you turn away an alcoholic who was destroying themselves in the pub if you were a publican. You would and you'd also be legally obliged to.

Bluetonic · 05-01-2013 8:41pm

beaner88 wrote: »

Would you turn away an alcoholic who was destroying themselves in the pub if you were a publican. You would and you'd also be legally obliged to.

There is a law which states that a publican must turn away an alcoholic from a licensed premises? Which law is that?

juan.kerr · 05-01-2013 8:45pm

beaner88 wrote: »

Your analogy doesn't fit very well. Let me turn it into a comparable destructive addiction. Would you turn away an alcoholic who was destroying themselves in the pub if you were a publican. You would and you'd also be legally obliged to.

So a publican has to turn away a sober alcoholic?

clickerquicklic · 05-01-2013 10:28pm

The problem I have with this is they increased his allowable stake when they saw he was clueless thus allowing him to lose more , if I sign up to powers tomorrow I won't get a max bet of 40k on Norwegian soccer or anything near it . It's bad enough they are allowed to reduce limits for successful punters but I don't think they should be allowing an unsuccessful punter increased limits so he can lose more and more . Bookies are ruthless .

lukas8888 · 05-01-2013 11:06pm

I am amazed how the main stream media plus our politcians have remained largely silent on this issue apart from the sindos declan lynch.I know that Paddy Power is one of irelands most sucessful companies so all the more reason to examine in detail how in gods name they allowed this compulsive gambler bet 10 million.Upon signing up online they were fully aware of his status job likely income etc and as he was gambling such extraordinary amounts allowed him continue is an absolute disgrace,they should be called to answer in front of an oireachtas commitee.I know many small punters who after winning small amounts have been shut down or their stakes wagered reduced to peanuts.I am in full agreement with the sentiments expressed by Lord Byron.This loss will ultimately fall on the taxpayers, the very least i would expect is for PP to repay the 1.5 million to the exchequer.

Zuko123 · 06-01-2013 7:00pm

lukas8888 wrote: »

I am amazed how the main stream media plus our politcians have remained largely silent on this issue apart from the sindos declan lynch.I know that Paddy Power is one of irelands most sucessful companies so all the more reason to examine in detail how in gods name they allowed this compulsive gambler bet 10 million.Upon signing up online they were fully aware of his status job likely income etc and as he was gambling such extraordinary amounts allowed him continue is an absolute disgrace,they should be called to answer in front of an oireachtas commitee.I know many small punters who after winning small amounts have been shut down or their stakes wagered reduced to peanuts.I am in full agreement with the sentiments expressed by Lord Byron.This loss will ultimately fall on the taxpayers, the very least i would expect is for PP to repay the 1.5 million to the exchequer.

Hyperbolic much? Please explain to us how they would know his status,job,likely income upon signing up?

lukas8888 · 06-01-2013 9:56pm

Zuko123 wrote: »

Hyperbolic much? Please explain to us how they would know his status,job,likely income upon signing up?[/Q

Hyperbolic maybe but you are naive if you think that after a couple of five to ten thousand euro punts they would not know everything about this addict.As you appear to be a pp cheerleader you must know that they have a shop network in most irish towns for example Main Street Gorey.All high rollers are vetted and the winners are barred.This saga is in my hyperbolic opinion remains a scandal that requires much more investigation.

Zuko123 · 07-01-2013 2:13am

Erm no I'm not naive,you are changing what you said,you said they would know all about him upon signing up,now you've changed it to a few months later.and I'm hardly a pp cheerleader,they closed my account a long time ago but I don't whine like a little girl over it,this is the nature of the beast.Winners have their accounts closed,losers get taken to race meetings All this moral outrage is a joke.in Vegas the casinos comp gamblers,te more you lose the more you get comped,you count cards you get barred (or worse)
This is the way the world is,

byronbay2 · 07-01-2013 3:21am

Zuko123 wrote: »

Erm no I'm not naive,you are changing what you said,you said they would know all about him upon signing up,now you've changed it to a few months later.and I'm hardly a pp cheerleader,they closed my account a long time ago but I don't whine like a little girl over it,this is the nature of the beast.Winners have their accounts closed,losers get taken to race meetings All this moral outrage is a joke.in Vegas the casinos comp gamblers,te more you lose the more you get comped,you count cards you get barred (or worse)
This is the way the world is,

Sorry Zuko, I've got to disagree with you on this one. Over 95% of gamblers lose and most of us can suck it up and move on. I've gambled all my life (first bet March 1975) and am a loser (lost in 3 of the last 5 years) but will happily continue to gamble until the end of my life. I accept my losses as the price I pay for my entertainment.

What you need to realise is: there is a small minority of gamblers (less than 2%) who can't control their impulse to gamble and will inevitably lose all their money if they don't get help. That is why Paddy Power (and all the other bookies) have virtual racing, roulette, racing from SA/Fra/Ger etc. These products are not aimed at the ordinary punter and you better believe me when I say that PP can spot a compulsive gambler a lot quicker than you or I can. Should they break them or help them?? It's probably going to happen anyway (the breaking) but I can't stand the way the bookies give this Responsible Gambling BS but then can't spot a post office manager in a small regional town who bets €10m in 16 months as a compulsive gambler!!

Anyway, it's not something we need to worry too much about (ordinary gamblers) but I think we need to have some consideration for this man and his family who have lost everything to help PP make their record profits.

Rant over for good, this time/

Zuko123 · 13-01-2013 9:46pm

There is a thread on this in bet fairs Irish sports forum.Some guy is apparently meeting his local TD to complain about this matter.He wants to make a formal complaint to the gardai! The cops should have a good laugh over this,a bookie takes bets off a ****e gambler,how shocking

Austria! · 13-01-2013 11:29pm

Zuko123 wrote: »

a bookie takes bets off a ****e gambler,how shocking

It's not that he was a ****e gambler, it's that he was an addict. Taking advantage of the stupid is the business model, but taking advantage of people who can't really control themselves is a level beyond that. I don't think it's ok, and if I could make the laws then I'd make what PP did illegal*. If we don't allow under 18s to gamble because they won't be responsible enough, then surely we can't allow addicts, who will be much less responsible, to gamble.

*I do not know if it is currently legal or not.

Zuko123 · 14-01-2013 4:07pm

Austria! wrote: »

It's not that he was a ****e gambler, it's that he was an addict. Taking advantage of the stupid is the business model, but taking advantage of people who can't really control themselves is a level beyond that. I don't think it's ok, and if I could make the laws then I'd make what PP did illegal*. If we don't allow under 18s to gamble because they won't be responsible enough, then surely we can't allow addicts, who will be much less responsible, to gamble.

*I do not know if it is currently legal or not.

O come on,you want to make it illegal to accept bets from addicts,how the hell would this be enforced? All I can say is dont ever go to Vegas,you would be horrified at the casinos giving free drinks and comping the punters.

UrbanSea · 14-01-2013 4:37pm

Can't believe people are really blaming Paddy Power here. Yes they're a business, but they happen to be the most expensive business per share in the whole country.

Complaining about them being immoral and taking bets from this guy is laughable. Gambling and all bookies is immoral. If he chose to bet with 365 or Ladbrokes (not Irish owned) should he face an Oireachtas?

Why should they pay back the money, if the gambler won money off them and was then caught, the money would be taken from him by the CAB, would they return it to PP? You must be having a laugh

Zuko123 · 14-01-2013 5:17pm

I think there is an attitude nowadays that you don't have to take responsibility for anything. If you are alcoholic,drug/gambling addicted its not your fault, you have a "disease" and it is the evil drinks, tobacco, drugs companies, bookies, casinos fault.
So because they have supposedly no control if their actions they continue to ruin their own lives and maybe families lives by using this "disease" excuse instead of sorting themselves out.
There is a very good South Park episode on this where randy becomes and alcoholic,

lukas8888 · 27-01-2013 9:53pm

RichieLawlessness wrote: »

Can't believe people are really blaming Paddy Power here. Yes they're a business, but they happen to be the most expensive business per share in the whole country.

Complaining about them being immoral and taking bets from this guy is laughable. Gambling and all bookies is immoral. If he chose to bet with 365 or Ladbrokes (not Irish owned) should he face an Oireachtas?

Why should they pay back the money, if the gambler won money off them and was then caught, the money would be taken from him by the CAB, would they return it to PP? You must be having a laugh

What naivety try winning any more than 4or5 thousand from pp and your account will be monitored then win a few grand more and you will be restricted to peanut stakes or will have your account closed

lukas8888 · 27-01-2013 10:10pm

Zuko123 wrote: »

I think there is an attitude nowadays that you don't have to take responsibility for anything. If you are alcoholic,drug/gambling addicted its not your fault, you have a "disease" and it is the evil drinks, tobacco, drugs companies, bookies, casinos fault.
So because they have supposedly no control if their actions they continue to ruin their own lives and maybe families lives by using this "disease" excuse instead of sorting themselves out.
There is a very good South Park episode on this where randy becomes and alcoholic,

Paddy Power should sack their pr guy and employ you, a sterling defence of this deplorable episode.I read in today's sindo that once again Declan Lynch is going after them and sounds like a man on a mission.The answers to his queries are pathetic here's hoping he keeps on their case and I for one will enjoy watching them squirm.

tommyombomb · 30-01-2013 2:47am

byronbay2 wrote: »

What you need to realise is: there is a small minority of gamblers (less than 2%) who can't control their impulse to gamble and will inevitably lose all their money if they don't get help.
/

I think you are way off with 2% of gamblers only being problem gamblers. I would hazard a guess that anywhere from 10-20% of gamblers have a problem in my personal experience. Probably even way higher than this as I've heard/witnessed so many train wrecks,

Zuko123 · 30-01-2013 12:41pm

lukas8888 wrote: »

Paddy Power should sack their pr guy and employ you, a sterling defence of this deplorable episode.I read in today's sindo that once again Declan Lynch is going after them and sounds like a man on a mission.The answers to his queries are pathetic here's hoping he keeps on their case and I for one will enjoy watching them squirm.

No need for them to employ me,I would rather they reopen my account with them. Once again you guys should never go to Vegas, when you see how they comp people you would be on the phone to Joe Duffy venting your outrage

byronbay2 · 30-01-2013 6:02pm

Zuko123 wrote: »

No need for them to employ me,I would rather they reopen my account with them. Once again you guys should never go to Vegas, when you see how they comp people you would be on the phone to Joe Duffy venting your outrage

I see you (and some of the other posters on this thread) have the typical American attitude: "I'm alright Jack so go fu*k yourself!". That's OK and I hope it stays fine for you but that attitude is why American society is so (irreparably) damaged, with regard to inequality/guns/drugs/healthcare/home repossessions etc etc etc. In Ireland, we have traditionally (and I hope this will continue) had a more caring attitude towards people who are "down on their luck" in some way. Thus we have unemployment allowances, rent allowance, medical cards etc to help people maintain a reasonable existence until they can get back on their feet.

Similarly with problem gamblers: where an American would say "Fu*k them, not my problem", most Irish people would sympathise and like to think that some help should available to them. Irish bookies (unlike the same bookies when operating in Britain) pay nothing, or virtually nothing, to help people who admit they have a gambling problem and look for help. It's almost like they don't want anything done about the problem - I can't imagine why! Now that, to me, is immoral but I wouldn't mind it so much except that they put on this disgusting pretence of concern while at the same time making record profits and giving virtually nothing back to help those adversely affected by their product.

BTW, it's only getting worse. This generation of teenagers/20-somethings gamble much more heavily than previous generations (hence the record profits!) and thus will inevitably create a much higher number of problem gamblers in the future. But, hey, it's not something you need to worry about - unless it turns out to be your child/grandchild etc.

Zuko123 · 30-01-2013 7:22pm

I dunno, if someone offers a product or service and certain people decide to abuse it,should the provider of said product be responsible? Should glue manufacturers pay money towards helping glue sniffers?
Should cadburys pay towards fat women's health problems? That would set dangerous precedents

byronbay2 · 31-01-2013 1:39am

Zuko123 wrote: »

I dunno, if someone offers a product or service and certain people decide to abuse it,should the provider of said product be responsible? Should glue manufacturers pay money towards helping glue sniffers?
Should cadburys pay towards fat women's health problems? That would set dangerous precedents

I don't think you're comparing like with like. What gambling needs, just as much (or more) than treatment for existing problem gamblers is raised awareness and improved education, especially among younger people, about the dangers gambling poses. The correct comparison is with the alcohol industry, which funds a very high-profile (and expensive) campaign of education and awareness called DrinkAware.

Zuko123 · 01-02-2013 2:00pm

Yes we have to educate young people the dangers of robbing from your employer and then betting 40,000 on a Norwegian ladies football team.they would never figure out how dumb this is on their own

SirDelboy18 · 01-02-2013 2:34pm

Zuko123 wrote: »

Yes we have to educate young people the dangers of robbing from your employer and then betting 40,000 on a Norwegian ladies football team.they would never figure out how dumb this is on their own

Yep that's exactly what he said.

Making things up FTW.

Man gambles post office money

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