Ireland still a 1st world country??

Icepick · 19-12-2012 11:36PM

keith16 wrote: »

Surprised to see Eastern Europe to be viewed so negatively. It such a broad and simplistic term. Can anyone define it?

Poland for example could be viewed as Central Europe (look at a map). In any case, places like Poland, Ukraine, Estonia could hardly be described as third world. No doubt they are developing. But they are not that far behind Ireland.

Poland has a monthly minimum wage of €353. Ukraine €102!
Some people here say you can't live on €1,462.

Duckworth_Luas · 19-12-2012 11:57PM

I was going to walk down and get a pizza, it rained so I got it delivered instead.

I hate this Third World country we live in!

Stinicker · 20-12-2012 12:02AM

Icepick wrote: »

Poland has a monthly minimum wage of €353. Ukraine €102!
Some people here say you can't live on €1,462.

keith16 wrote: »

Surprised to see Eastern Europe to be viewed so negatively. It such a broad and simplistic term. Can anyone define it?

Poland for example could be viewed as Central Europe (look at a map). In any case, places like Poland, Ukraine, Estonia could hardly be described as third world. No doubt they are developing. But they are not that far behind Ireland.

I was in Warsaw this month and Poland has a far superior infrastructure to Ireland, there is also low unemployment, low wages yes, the cost of living is far lower also so I could argue that the average pole could very well be better off in real terms than an Irish person as he has employment and a developing and advancing economy. He also has unlimited access to higher income economies in Ireland, UK, rest of EU etc. His country is getting better and future prospects look good.

By comparison Ireland is reverting backwards, there is less opportunity, our people who were used to good times have no found themselves going backwards with no prospects and no access to better places and getting to the US & Australia is not easy for everyone. Ireland is going backwards a long way and people have less money in their pockets etc.

Being aged between 23 - 40 sees this generation effected worst as we grew up with everything and the expectation of getting rich and having an easy life. Now this has shattered and it is not easy to take. Older people have witnessed hard times before and take no notice of it. One thing for sure whatever about other countries I absolutely hate Ireland for 1 reason and that is out weather, we have the most horrible weather going of just sheer hell, non-stop rain, no sunshine or even Snow.

In my lifetime I remember 1 good summer of 1995 and 1 good winter with the Snowfalls of 2010-2011 over Xmas 2010. There maybe money in Ireland but there is a hell of alot of sadness considering we have 1 of the highest suicide rates in the world I am not surprised.

petersburg2002 · 20-12-2012 12:05AM

After seeing the grinding poverty in the suburbs of large Russian cities and the almost complete lack of a social care system, Ireland appears almost utopian in comparison.

Duckworth_Luas · 20-12-2012 12:05AM

Stinicker wrote: »

I absolutely hate Ireland for 1 reason and that is out weather, we have the most horrible weather going of just sheer hell, non-stop rain

Tell me about it, the pizza cost €3 extra for delivery!

Madam_X · 20-12-2012 12:19AM

Infrastructure here can be second world. Otherwise, yep, first world. I remember kids visiting here from Belarus in the early 90s (when things were a lot drearier here) and being overwhelmed by how good we had it (to them). It doesn't mean there aren't impoverished, marginalised people here, but it doesn't change that it's still first world. Look at the extreme poverty in the US.

Red Hand · 20-12-2012 12:22AM

Icepick wrote: »

Poland has a monthly minimum wage of €353. Ukraine €102!
Some people here say you can't live on €1,462.

Feck that, there have been many threads started on boards asking whether 25000 per year for an entry level job was worth applying for, with the person in question having no job to begin with.

RADIUS · 20-12-2012 12:53AM

petersburg2002 wrote: »

After seeing the grinding poverty in the suburbs of large Russian cities and the almost complete lack of a social care system, Ireland appears almost utopian in comparison.

Agreed. Having visited Ukraine multiple times I can say that while beautiful in many ways, the sheer poverty and hopelessness there is overwhelming.

Ireland is not perfect, but it's a great country when you add a little perspective.

big_joe_joyce · 20-12-2012 01:00AM

keith16 wrote: »

Surprised to see Eastern Europe to be viewed so negatively. It such a broad and simplistic term. Can anyone define it?

Poland for example could be viewed as Central Europe (look at a map). In any case, places like Poland, Ukraine, Estonia could hardly be described as third world. No doubt they are developing. But they are not that far behind Ireland.

their still no further ahead where we were in the eighties

the idea that ireland is anything but first is so preposterous , it barely deserves to be dignified with comment

ireland was a first world country every year of the twentieth century , let alone this one , we have always been richer than the likes of argentina , russia , china , egypt , libya , bulgaria , romania , mexico , those are all second world countries as most people do not struggle to eat enough , most of africa is third world and a sizeable chunk of india

Richard Hillman · 20-12-2012 01:00AM

They're not complaining about their bank overdraft being reduced in Ethiopia and they certainly didn't have their childrens allowance being reduced by 10 blips. We're probably a 4th world country at this rate. Right down there with Antartica and Atlantis.

markesmith · 20-12-2012 01:34AM

big_joe_joyce wrote: »

the idea that ireland is anything but first is so preposterous , it barely deserves to be dignified with comment

ireland was a first world country every year of the twentieth century , let alone this one , we have always been richer than the likes of argentina , russia , china , egypt , libya , bulgaria , romania , mexico , those are all second world countries as most people do not struggle to eat enough , most of africa is third world and a sizeable chunk of india

Them commas are getting cold out there on their own

RADIUS · 20-12-2012 02:22PM

big_joe_joyce wrote: »

their still no further ahead where we were in the eighties

the idea that ireland is anything but first is so preposterous , it barely deserves to be dignified with comment

ireland was a first world country every year of the twentieth century , let alone this one , we have always been richer than the likes of argentina , russia , china , egypt , libya , bulgaria , romania , mexico , those are all second world countries as most people do not struggle to eat enough , most of africa is third world and a sizeable chunk of india

Firstly people here have the meaning of 1st, 2nd and 3rd world all wrong.
It was about political alignment during the cold war. The 1st world being UK and USA's allies. The 2nd being USSR and co. The 3rd being the rest.

Anyway, taken in the context used here it is clear that people are using it to describe economic status and development. I would in this case have to disagree with you as Ireland was a very poor developing country for much of the 1900's.

Also, during 60's, 70's and 80's USSR would have been way ahead. The technological advancements alone coming out of the USSR during this period were nothing short of staggering. People forget that there was a USSR long after the Stalin years and it was by all accounts very successful for a time. There were very poor people there of course, but no less poor than the very poor of UK and USA. Anyway my point is that these countries were on a par and at the time Ireland couldn't even compare.

You are very incorrect when you suggest that Ireland has always been richer than Russia. Historically speaking the opposite is true.

What many people fail to realise is that taking Ireland's history into account, comparatively speaking we are actually in a golden age. Ireland being in the top group of countries in which to live in the world, is a relatively new development and something that we should be proud of despite our difficulties.

We have overcome enormous odds and hardships as a nation to make it this far, and now we sit right on top of the pile. By Irish standards I would be just above the poverty line. But statistically I am amongst the most well off people in the world and I feel very grateful and privileged to be here. I could have just as easily been born in some desert, or some dilapidated shanty town.

Cypher_sounds · 20-12-2012 02:26PM

There aren't enough flies about the place for us to be considered a 3rd world country.

touts · 20-12-2012 03:03PM

It is very much a mixed bag. We are no where near third world and hopefully never will be. But we are falling behind real First World nations and are definately slipping into a lower tier. If that is sub tier one or second world is open to debate.

Infrastructural Dublin for all it's faults and failings is very much a first world city with all the associated services and infrastructure (remember every city in the world complains about traffic etc so by real standards Dublin is up there although people still have lots to complain about). Electricity, Water, Broadband, Road infrastructure and even rail infrastructure are on a par with any city. (socially it is a different story but more on that later)

Outside Dublin the infrastructure and services provided are so poor and being decreased almost daily that it is hard to say we are anywhere in the same league as Germany, England, Denmark etc. Roads are literally crumbling and collapsing (e.g. N24). "High Speed" broadband rarely gets over 1mb. There is no real public transportation worth the name. Apart from the members only facilities provided by the GAA and Golf sports facilities and recreation are sparse. Overall we are very comparable to Eastern Europe (Poland, Bulgaria etc) in many areas and as they improve and we fallback what gap exists is being rapidly closed.

Social Welfare wise we are very much the top tier. It's not perfect for some very hard cases (carers etc) but if you are a single mother or a standard unemployed person Ireland is about as good as it gets. Again you will have lots to complain about when you compare yourself against the working middle class but if you compare against the unemployed & other welfare groups in other countries the Irish do very well.

Healthcare is probably a sub tier in First World after years of near malice by Harney and more or less incompetence by Cowen, Martin and now Reilly compounded by an administration more interested in their own pay and conditions than events at the frontline. We don't have the population density to allow real centres of excellence like you will find in London, New York Paris etc to be viable. Also our hospital infrastructure is generally ageing and not being well maintained (just look at the state of Crumlin Childrens hospital). Healthcare is also very expensive and increasingly you get a better service and a cheaper service by flying to Eastern Europe for treatment. So sub tier First World and rapidly heading to Second World (especially if you live in Rural Ireland and all hospitals near you have been shut or downgraded (e.g. Clare, Kerry, Sligo, South Tipp etc). If you have a serious medical emergency in west Clare, Sligo or the middle of Tipperary you are now 60 minutes from help and your chances of survival are little better than if you live in rural Poland or Bulgaria. Getting to a hospital is increasingly the fatal bottleneck.

Education is also sub tier one. Our secondary schools are not fit for purpose as they continue to put the priority on dead writers (e.g. Shakespear) and dead Languages (i.e. Ireland) over science, technology and languages. Our infrastructure for Primary schools is crumbling and over crowded. At the same time policies by interfering ministers have not helped as the focus now seems to be on dragging the strongest down to the level of the weakest rather than streaming students towards their strengths. Hence we now have an education system up to junior cert that seems to be more about students enjoying themselves and playing together than academic achievement. Our Third level is beset by chronic underfunding because of an unwillingness of government and students to pay for the service. The end result of that is our Universities are all way down the rankings with many so called Third World Universities well ahead of them. At best we are sub tier one and without a radical rethink to see what the likes of Singapore etc are doing we will be well behind many current third world nations in 10 years.

Socially we are also very much back to being second world. Emmigration is now the only option for many of our young people joining migrants from Africa, East Europe and Asia to compete for jobs in developed nations. Our recreation is heavily centered on the consumption of alcohol and it is hard to find a social event that does not have some element of drinking involved. Crime, especially violent crime, is increasing and you can see the centre of cities like Dublin and Limerick becoming no go zones at night with drunk gangs, drug addicts and prostitutes roaming the streets. They are increasingly comparable to the likes of Johannesburg and Cape Town city centres at night.

So I would say we are sub-Tier 1 and as the Troika increasingly press their boots on our throats and suck more and more money from us to repay the gambling debts of German investors the situation is only going to worsen.

GastroBoy · 20-12-2012 03:07PM

bobo26b wrote: »

Just wondering with all the sh*te that has gone on in Ireland over the last few years, can we still call ourselves a 1st world country. Is it possible that we may have slid into being some sort of 2nd tier 1st world country or 2nd world country.

Lads were talking about this in the pub the other night most thought we were still a 1st world country, I'm not sure I think we could have slipped a bit into some form of 2nd tier group.

So what do ye think??

If your out in the pub and having a few jars then NO, not a 2nd world country.

Idiotic poll.....

Dodge · 20-12-2012 03:12PM

Love the idea of a load of people in work on the internet discussing whether Ireland is a first world country or not.

lcrcboy · 20-12-2012 03:22PM

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/ireland-low-earners-eu-724301-Dec2012/

Interesting article released today

Ireland's low-wage earners among EU's highest

Madam_X · 20-12-2012 03:29PM

I wonder is it deliberate that the wallet looks like a vagina and the person holding it open is a woman?

Larbre34 · 20-12-2012 04:22PM

If you have a bank account, and theres even a few pence of credit in it, youre already in the top 8% wealthiest people on the planet

Ireland is wealthy, and developed, all indicators point to us being one of the most progressive and open societies with the best social care in the world, and when you look at the stats for real 3rd world nations you can understand why - mortality, education, welfare, we are in the top handful in Europe, never mind the world.

Certainly we have had a huge economic crisis, and despite the bad mistakes in prioritisation of cuts to some of our most vulnerable, that vulnerability is all relative. We cant get it fully right on Health and Welfare but thats down to corporate and institutional problems in the main.

Dont forget the strong position we came from, we have only corrected by about 15% from that, although thats been enough to seriously affect those short of means.

It may not feel like it now, but in a decade Ireland will be flying again after some tough medicine, theres no chance poorer nations than us will get to our level in that timescale

Duckworth_Luas · 20-12-2012 04:28PM

Madam_X wrote: »

I wonder is it deliberate that the wallet looks like a vagina and the person holding it open is a woman?

Brown, dry and leathery! Whose vagina? Victoria Beckam's?

smurgen · 20-12-2012 04:39PM

Madam_X wrote: »

I wonder is it deliberate that the wallet looks like a vagina and the person holding it open is a woman?

I like to call the vagina a ham wallet.

anncoates · 20-12-2012 04:50PM

The whining of Celtic Tiger refugees bemoaning their first recession is fast becoming ridiculous.

pontia · 20-12-2012 05:05PM

Stinicker wrote: »

I was in Warsaw this month and Poland has a far superior infrastructure to Ireland, there is also low unemployment, low wages yes, the cost of living is far lower also so I could argue that the average pole could very well be better off in real terms than an Irish person as he has employment and a developing and advancing economy. He also has unlimited access to higher income economies in Ireland, UK, rest of EU etc. His country is getting better and future prospects look good.

By comparison Ireland is reverting backwards, there is less opportunity, our people who were used to good times have no found themselves going backwards with no prospects and no access to better places and getting to the US & Australia is not easy for everyone. Ireland is going backwards a long way and people have less money in their pockets etc.

Being aged between 23 - 40 sees this generation effected worst as we grew up with everything and the expectation of getting rich and having an easy life. Now this has shattered and it is not easy to take. Older people have witnessed hard times before and take no notice of it. One thing for sure whatever about other countries I absolutely hate Ireland for 1 reason and that is out weather, we have the most horrible weather going of just sheer hell, non-stop rain, no sunshine or even Snow.

In my lifetime I remember 1 good summer of 1995 and 1 good winter with the Snowfalls of 2010-2011 over Xmas 2010. There maybe money in Ireland but there is a hell of alot of sadness considering we have 1 of the highest suicide rates in the world I am not surprised.

of course poland has low unemployement,their all here

Duckworth_Luas · 20-12-2012 05:25PM

pontia wrote: »

of course poland has low unemployement,their all here

I was at home one day when who strolled in but the former CEO of Apple. Fecker walked into the kitchen, opened a press, grabbed a can of Mr Sheen and off out the front door again.

Feckin Jobs, coming here stealing out Polish!

old hippy · 21-12-2012 10:32AM

pontia wrote: »

of course poland has low unemployement,their all here

No, "their" not. Ignorance and lies, as usual.

Stinicker · 21-12-2012 08:07PM

old hippy wrote: »

No, "their" not. Ignorance and lies, as usual.

There is about 38 million people in Poland, there are a few tens of thousands of them in Ireland. The Polish people have made a valuable contribution to Ireland and I'd gladly swap a fair few undesirable Irish people for polish people if I could.

jesus_thats_gre · 21-12-2012 08:15PM

bobo26b wrote: »

Just wondering with all the sh*te that has gone on in Ireland over the last few years, can we still call ourselves a 1st world country. Is it possible that we may have slid into being some sort of 2nd tier 1st world country or 2nd world country.

Lads were talking about this in the pub the other night most thought we were still a 1st world country, I'm not sure I think we could have slipped a bit into some form of 2nd tier group.

So what do ye think??

Of course we are first world country. Spent the guts of 4 months in India in the past year and goodness me, that put things in perspective.

DanWall · 21-12-2012 08:22PM

Looks like we are turning in to a dictatorship the way the government is forcing us to pay things, the latest being that the Tax man can now take money from our bank accounts if we do not pay the property tax.

Do they not know that most people have nothing in their account to take

Ireland still a 1st world country??

Comments