Problems with Love/Hate.

Happyman42 · 18-12-2012 10:38PM

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Already gave you one - the hero in I Went Down, which according to a quick check on Wiki was praised by the New York Times reviewer for "steering clear of Irish movie stereotypes and instead showing off a spare and quizzical indie spirit"

Git is not a perjorative term in Dublin in the context of people called Christopher as it is in your world obviously. A person named Christopher wouldnt generally be offended by it.

He was not the 'romantic lead' and I Went Down was a black comedy which did indeed avoid stereotypes, which shows it can be done.
You and ThisRegard have gotten hung up on the Christopher thing and ignored my substantive point, that the name Git was chosen very deliberately for this stereotype, a whiskey drinking, prone to violence, misogynist, hypocritical republican. There is no way in heaven and earth that there would have been an oversight of the implications of calling him 'Git'.
I expect more from a drama, I expect an insight into the character not a handy cliche.

dzer2 · 18-12-2012 10:40PM

AT LAST The happyman thread:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Happyman42 · 18-12-2012 10:44PM

Gee Bag wrote: »

You seem to be suggesting that by right they should only be depicted as noble, warrior poets fighting the good fight. What they get up to in the real world is pretty damn similar to what they are up to in Love/Hate.

Do me a favour and go find me where I said the above on either of the 2 threads or even hinted at it. Go on, and don't come back until you find it. :rolleyes::D

p.s. you might stumble across what I actually did say was required.

ThisRegard · 18-12-2012 10:53PM

There are no implications of being called Git, that's the point, it's your hang up, not ours.

Until a couple hours ago you didn't know it was a Dublin nickname for Christopher, you thought it meant an actual git.

By your logic Darren being called Dazzler also has some other subtext, maybe because he dazzles the ladies?

Happyman42 · 18-12-2012 11:29PM

We'll agree to disagree, you don't see Git as a stereotype, I do and stereotypes don't belong in good drama.

Gee Bag · 18-12-2012 11:37PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Do me a favour and go find me where I said the above on either of the 2 threads or even hinted at it. Go on, and don't come back until you find it. :rolleyes::D

p.s. you might stumble across what I actually did say was required.

Thats a favour too big to ask I'm afraid, there's no way I'm digging through all your previous posts on this topic.

You have consistently inferred that you think the potrayal of Git and Dano is lazy, cliched, one dimensional, etc, due to the fact that they are depicted as a pair of drunken, violent knuckledraggers (my words). The obvious corollary of this is that you would like to see them depicted as more rounded individuals.

It's my supposition that dissident republicans are not the most enlightened of individuals as they are wedded to a form of militant republicanism that has been rejected by the vast majority of Irish republicans and the Irish people north and south. I would further contend that the violence they are currently engaged in has zero chance of achieving a united Ireland and has as much to do with gaining personal wealth and notoriety. Taxing drug dealers just means that they have a vested interest in the drugs trade. The level of violence around this is not just a fabrication by the media (Alan Ryan boasting to journalists about chopping fingers off people who crossed him, the Ballymount bloodbath, RAAD, etc, etc.). Therefore, I would contend that even if Git and Danno are stereotypes, this is not necessarily inaccurate.

I will concede that Danno's drinking is over the top.

As I said at the end of my last post there have been plenty of films/TV shows that have shown IRA men in a very positive light, and there have been plenty that haven't, you just can't win 'em all

Re. 'Git' being a nickname for Christopher
Here's one for ya

ONE of the most enduring blood feuds in Dublin flared up again last week when two gunmen burst into the home of car-dealer and semi-retired drug dealer and gangster, Christopher 'Git' McDonagh in Clondalkin and shot him dead.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/feud-death-adds-one-more-to-body-count-of-10year-bloodbath-1475227.html

Happyman42 · 18-12-2012 11:45PM

Gee Bag wrote: »

Thats a favour too big to ask I'm afraid, there's no way I'm digging through all your previous posts on this topic.

Fair enough, forgive me if I don't bother responding to what you 'thought' I said.

Gee Bag · 18-12-2012 11:58PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Fair enough, forgive me if I don't bother responding to what you 'thought' I said.

I didn't go through your 100+ posts because they are both repetitive and turgid. However, that does make it quite easy to remember the gist of them.

Your inability to engage with anyone who disagrees with you is smug beyond belief. Even when your arseways wrong about something pretty straight forward like the nickname git you just can't concede defeat.

If you were a charecter in a TV show I'd consider you a thinly sketched, boring cliche, but you actualy exist, therefore I can only assume your a troll.

Happyman42 · 19-12-2012 12:10AM

Gee Bag wrote: »

I didn't go through your 100+ posts because they are both repetitive and turgid. However, that does make it quite easy to remember the gist of them.

That's a neat trick...remembering something I didn't say.

Your inability to engage with anyone who disagrees with you is smug beyond belief. Even when your arseways wrong about something pretty straight forward like the nickname git you just can't concede defeat.

I have explained over and over what I meant and still believe, I'm sorry I am not in the habit of conceding in that instance. Had I known that Git was an abbreviation of Christopher I would have phrased my initial post differently, however my substantial point about the deliberate stereotyping and how the choice of this nickname is part of that, still stands.

If you were a charecter in a TV show I'd consider you a thinly sketched, boring cliche, but you actualy exist, therefore I can only assume your a troll.

Assumption seems to be one of your skills.:D

Imhof Tank · 19-12-2012 12:15AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

I Went Down was a black comedy which did indeed avoid stereotypes, .

It was the tale of a Dublin gangbanger called Git - how cliched eh?

Happyman42 · 19-12-2012 12:24AM

Imhof Tank wrote: »

It was the tale of a Dublin gangbanger called Git - how cliched eh?

The use of cliche and stereotype in a comedy is a whole different subject and not really relevant here.

kippy · 19-12-2012 12:48AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

The use of cliche and stereotype in a comedy is a whole different subject and not really relevant here.

What, in your humble opinion should he have been called?

I have to say I am somewhat confused at this point of your double standards in relation to stereotypes. Darren, not stereotypical enough, Git, too stereotypical

Imhof Tank · 19-12-2012 12:49AM

kippy wrote: »

What, in your humble opinion should he have been called?

I have to say I am somewhat confused at this point of your double standards in relation to stereotypes. Darren, not stereotypical enough, Git, too stereotypical

Not Wayne anyway. Bernard would have been ok he said.

Imhof Tank · 19-12-2012 01:01AM

In relation to naming generally, I think the choice of the name Nigel was brilliant too.

You can imagine young Nidge being slagged and taunted as a schoolboy - having to stand up and fight against that abuse would have influenced the development of his twisted personality.

Happyman42 · 19-12-2012 01:12AM

Imhof Tank wrote: »

In relation to naming generally, I think the choice of the name Nigel was brilliant too.

You can imagine young Nidge being slagged and taunted as a schoolboy - having to stand up and fight against that abuse would have influenced the development of his twisted personality.

Totally agree, a good choice and believable name. But then Nidge is a complex and nuanced character and I think one of the things they got right and the series would be a shambles without him. He has essentially the same morals as Git and Dano but they are treated one-dimensionally, and are designed to pander to an audience that doesn't want to think, that's both a failure and a disappointment.
Carolan goes on at lenght about how he wanted to show the reality of these peoples lifes

Stuart Carolan wrote:

]Despite what they had done or how they had died, their families were like anybody else’s. So I wanted to try and capture some of that.

I think he failed that brief in the case of Git and Dano.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 19-12-2012 01:13AM

Imhof Tank wrote: »

In relation to naming generally, I think the choice of the name Nigel was brilliant too.

You can imagine young Nidge being slagged and taunted as a schoolboy - having to stand up and fight against that abuse would have influenced the development of his twisted personality.

I grew up with a few Nigels in Ballymun, no one slagged them and usually they got a nickname from their surname.. Tbh none were called 'Nidge' ~ I think that was made up for the show.

Plenty of Git's though!.

Good thread, fun seeing HM getting tore a new one :pac:

Imhof Tank · 19-12-2012 01:22AM

Jessa Shy Banknote wrote: »

I grew up with a few Nigels in Ballymun, no one slagged them and usually they got a nickname from their surname.. Tbh none were called 'Nidge' ~ I think that was made up for the show.

Plenty of Git's though!.

Good thread, fun seeing HM getting tore a new one :pac:

Did nobody used to sing "We're Only Making Plans for Nigel" by XTC to them?

Guy I went to school with - who was actually called Niall - was known as "Nigel O'Nothing". A teacher came up with that originally and it stuck.

Happyman42 · 19-12-2012 01:30AM

Jessa Shy Banknote wrote: »

I grew up with a few Nigels in Ballymun, no one slagged them and usually they got a nickname from their surname.. Tbh none were called 'Nidge' ~ I think that was made up for the show.

Plenty of Git's though!.

Good thread, fun seeing HM getting tore a new one :pac:

We culchies where led to believe by telly and so forth, that Ballymun was full of gits but that was probably just a cliche.:pac:

FrostyJack · 19-12-2012 02:08AM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Totally agree, a good choice and believable name. But then Nidge is a complex and nuanced character and I think one of the things they got right and the series would be a shambles without him. He has essentially the same morals as Git and Dano but they are treated one-dimensionally, and are designed to pander to an audience that doesn't want to think, that's both a failure and a disappointment.

Ha ha this is golden, Git is a stupid name but Nidge is a great name. I know about 100 Gits and I have never heard anyone call Nidge around Dublin. I am sure it was made up for the show. Git = Sterotypical name Nidge = Plucked out of thin air is authentic? Nidge is also the most over the top character in the show (after John Boy) and completely unrealistic, but he is acceptable as it is a "drama".

As to other points you have brought up in the thread I dont think anyone really addressed fully:
1. Why did they go up North to meet RIRA under cloak and dagger, while they went into bar to meet Dano without issue? Dano was a low rank member, he was not being saught after Tony was one of the commanders, he was paranoid about the branch etc he obviously hadn't decided what to do with Nidge until he met him, remember he intially quized him was he a rat.
2. Georgina trying to get with Nidge. You must have been the only person who thought that. It is plainly obvious Nidge was trying all out and she was having none of it. He dresses his wife like her etc where as she looks rupulsed at his obvious advances. It is mentioned that she had a break down of some sort which is why she is vunerable, she hates/fears her husband and falls so easily for the caring Tommy. Nothing to do with her being a nympho.
3. Dano stays with his mother because he is not a scumbag and would love to be at home caring for his kids. It is clear you took everything everyone said at face value. Dano says he wants to stay with his mother therefore he must want to? He was only there because he didn't want to put up with his family and only there to look like he was doing something. It was an escape not a punishment to him. His father was a heavy drinker as it was pointed out by a number of RA heads including Tony, thus it was accepted he went on the lash on his own when Nidge left him. Just in case you didn't notice Dano liked drink too. Both men were quick to fight and talk about violence, see Elmo? Christopher's wife (I know you hate his other name so much) couldn't wait to get rid of his stuff, which pointed to some kind of estrangement between them. Georgina and Dano clearly didn't get on. Do you see all the similarities between Christopher and Daniel? He obviously grew up like his father, it may not point directly to a violent up bringing but it does elude to it. Maybe next season we will see more development.

I can't remember the rest now. I only started watching Love/Hate 3 weeks ago and knew there was massive hype behind it, I wasn't disappointed. It is far from being realistic but it does have some aspects and is very entertaining. It stands well up to some HBO shows I like, which is quite surprising for the people that brought us Fair City

Happyman42 · 19-12-2012 10:30AM

FrostyJack wrote: »

Ha ha this is golden, Git is a stupid name but Nidge is a great name. I know about 100 Gits and I have never heard anyone call Nidge around Dublin. I am sure it was made up for the show. Git = Sterotypical name Nidge = Plucked out of thin air is authentic? Nidge is also the most over the top character in the show (after John Boy) and completely unrealistic, but he is acceptable as it is a "drama".

Where did I say it was 'stupid'? And where did I say it was 'great'?
I also know around a hundred people called Gerry, what is your point?
And so you believe that Git was picked as his name without thought being given to what it means as a 'word' =

As to other points you have brought up in the thread I dont think anyone really addressed fully:
1. Why did they go up North to meet RIRA under cloak and dagger, while they went into bar to meet Dano without issue? Dano was a low rank member, he was not being saught after Tony was one of the commanders, he was paranoid about the branch etc he obviously hadn't decided what to do with Nidge until he met him, remember he intially quized him was he a rat.

Fair enough, personally I thought it was a waste of resources and wasn't really necessary to indicate the threat to Nidge posed by Tony and Dano. Considering, as I said that Nidge was fairly heavily beaten in the bar earlier (no worry about forensics then or the SB outside) and Tony had a fairly in depth Q&A in a packed pub. But it's a minor quibble.

2. Georgina trying to get with Nidge. You must have been the only person who thought that. It is plainly obvious Nidge was trying all out and she was having none of it. He dresses his wife like her etc where as she looks rupulsed at his obvious advances. It is mentioned that she had a break down of some sort which is why she is vunerable, she hates/fears her husband and falls so easily for the caring Tommy. Nothing to do with her being a nympho.

I'll have to watch it again, to me it was definatley a two way street (with her beng reluctant not repulsed, which is different) in the first two meetings. But the major point in relation to that was the way in which her character was used to illuminate aspects of the males, which was a problem with all the female characters.

3. Dano stays with his mother because he is not a scumbag and would love to be at home caring for his kids. It is clear you took everything everyone said at face value. Dano says he wants to stay with his mother therefore he must want to? He was only there because he didn't want to put up with his family and only there to look like he was doing something. It was an escape not a punishment to him. His father was a heavy drinker as it was pointed out by a number of RA heads including Tony, thus it was accepted he went on the lash on his own when Nidge left him. Just in case you didn't notice Dano liked drink too. Both men were quick to fight and talk about violence, see Elmo? Christopher's wife (I know you hate his other name so much) couldn't wait to get rid of his stuff, which pointed to some kind of estrangement between them. Georgina and Dano clearly didn't get on. Do you see all the similarities between Christopher and Daniel? He obviously grew up like his father, it may not point directly to a violent up bringing but it does elude to it. Maybe next season we will see more development.

I think you are also projecting a good bit here. There's a difference between ambiguity and confused writing. All the men in the cast liked to drink heavily and do copious drugs and commit and glorify in violence, yet only the RA men, pathologically hate their wives and neglect and are violent to their children, you'd wonder how they end up with partners at all their genes are so ****ed up? Could Dano not even have had a fish to show some of his humanity? Oh yes he got to show his humanity with the pidgeons before he couldn't deny his paramilitary genes and went on a rampage of bird murder :rolleyes:

19-12-2012 10:47AM

Nobody likes the RA, get over it!

Hitchens · 19-12-2012 10:56AM

Happyman, you must be the only person in the country that never knew that Git is a pet name for Christopher in Dublin, seriously now?

(it's always pronounced as Gih, the T is silent).

Happyman42 · 19-12-2012 10:56AM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Nobody likes the RA, get over it!

Mr Carolan evidently knew that. Wonder how he found out that everyone loves morally ****ed up gangland members. Funny wee country.

Happyman42 · 19-12-2012 11:01AM

Hitchens wrote: »

Happyman, you must be the only person in the country that never knew that Git is a pet name for Christopher in Dublin, seriously now?

(it's always pronounced as Gih, the T is silent).

I honestly didn't, don't you think I would have mentioned it in the original post on the subject and avoided the nonsense?
I asked somebody I know called Christopher, did he know that and he didn't either.
He's a huge fan of L/H btw.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 19-12-2012 12:14PM

Most believable imo;

Nidge, Elmo, Aido, Fran and that scumbag bird who shot Darren (can't recall her name).

Unbelievable imo;

Darren.

Off the wall idiocy were all the stupid f*cks who tried to play 'Ra heads ~ tbh they were a joke. Esp. Dano and his contorted face, every time the screen went to him he had a different look on his face.. Looked more like a dope than a hard man tbh.

LionelNashe · 19-12-2012 12:20PM

Hitchens wrote: »

Happyman, you must be the only person in the country that never knew that Git is a pet name for Christopher in Dublin, seriously now?

(it's always pronounced as Gih, the T is silent).

I've lived in dublin all my life (37 years) and I've never once come across Git as a nickname.

Happyman42 · 19-12-2012 12:24PM

Jessa Shy Banknote wrote: »

Most believable imo;

Nidge, Elmo, Aido, Fran and that scumbag bird who shot Darren (can't recall her name).

Unbelievable imo;

Darren.

Off the wall idiocy were all the stupid f*cks who tried to play 'Ra heads ~ tbh they were a joke. Esp. Dano and his contorted face, every time the screen went to him he had a different look on his face.. Looked more like a dope than a hard man tbh.

In fairness to the actor who played Dano, he wasn't given much else to go on.
We can only imagine how good it would have been had he been drawn with some subtly and nuance. Imagine how easy it would have been for the British if all RA men went around like that, 'shoot the ones with the constant snarl'.

Hitchens · 19-12-2012 12:30PM

LionelNashe wrote: »

I've lived in dublin all my life (37 years) and I've never once come across Git as a nickname.

You're not moving in the proper social whirl

LionelNashe · 19-12-2012 12:37PM

Quote: LionelNashe
I've lived in dublin all my life (37 years) and I've never once come across Git as a nickname.

Hitchens wrote: »

You're not moving in the proper social whirl

Ha, that occurred to me. It must be certain parts of Dublin that it's used, or maybe an older generation thing (?).

arybvtcw0eolkf · 19-12-2012 12:42PM

LionelNashe wrote: »

Quote: LionelNashe
I've lived in dublin all my life (37 years) and I've never once come across Git as a nickname.

Ha, that occurred to me. It must be certain parts of Dublin that it's used, or maybe an older generation thing (?).

You're 37, you ain't no spring chicken anymore

Maybe its a working class thing.

Problems with Love/Hate.

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