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Problems with Love/Hate.

1356

Comments

  • #62
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,207 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Again, I never said it wasn't good, it is good but it is flawed as well.

    Isn't everything?


  • #63
    Imhof Tank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Git (even his name was picked carefully)

    Happy, wondering what you mean by this?


  • #64
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    kippy wrote: »
    Isn't everything?

    Yep, some more than others though.


  • #65
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    Happy, wondering what you mean by this?
    Well Dickens was a master of the perjorative name or nickname, Thomas Gradgrind, Scrooge etc. This name 'Git' was picked for that reason. It's a cheap dramatic trick in serious drama nowadays imo.


  • #66
    Imhof Tank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Well Dickens was a master of the perjorative name or nickname, Thomas Gradgrind, Scrooge etc. This name 'Git' was picked for that reason. It's a cheap dramatic trick in serious drama nowadays imo.

    Are you trying to say his name "Christopher" was picked for cheap dramatic effect?


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  • #67
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    Are you trying to say his name "Christopher" was picked for cheap dramatic effect?
    No, his nickname was.


  • #68
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    No, his nickname was.

    It's common for Christopher to be call Git in Dublin, no?


  • #69
    Imhof Tank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    No, his nickname was.

    As far as I know (if I'm wrong someone will no doubt be in quickly to correct me) but I believe all Christophers are nicknamed Git in certain parts of Dublin - in particulars Drimnagh/ Crumlin area? Anothere example would be the hero in the film I Went Down who was Git as well.

    This is my understanding anyway - classic Dickens really.


  • #70
    bajer100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭bajer100


    I didn't like this show at all. It was recommended to me recently, so I watched all of season 1 and thought it was quite poor. I was told that it improved a lot in season 2 so I started watching that and gave up about halfway through. I just found that it was not realistic and I couldn't suspend my disbelief enough to buy into it. I thought that the casting was horrendous. For me, the bare minimum is that the cast should be able to speak with broad Dublin accents - few of them can. I'm a big Aiden Gillen fan, but I felt he was also dreadfully miscast. I also thought that the continuity was all over the place and that the attention to detail of the "business" they were in was severely lacking. To me, it seemed to be a portrayal of what the middle class think gangland is like. This show was crying out for the writers to employ some "consultants" who actually know the ins and outs of gangland. It came across as a soap opera, as opposed to a serious drama that accurately portrayed the subject matter.


  • #71
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    As far as I know (if I'm wrong someone will no doubt be in quickly to correct me) but I believe all Christophers are nicknamed Git in certain parts of Dublin - in particulars Drimnagh/ Crumlin area? Anothere example would be the hero in the film I Went Down who was Git as well.

    This is my understanding anyway - classic Dickens really.

    What's your point? Are you saying that the name was coincidental? If so it was unfortunate, particularly as this was one of the most stereotyped characters. The fact that Christophers in Dublin are called Git would be lost on those outside Dublin, as that fact was unknown to me. I am not convinced it was coincidental.


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  • #72
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    What's your point? Are you saying that the name was coincidental? If so it was unfortunate, particularly as this was one of the most stereotyped characters. The fact that Christophers in Dublin are called Git would be lost on those outside Dublin, as that fact was unknown to me. I am not convinced it was coincidental.

    :D

    Happyman give up. You've thrown in the towel now. You have just said yourself you know very little about Dublin yet you have been talking about stereotypes the whole time as if you are perfectly knowledgeable about the subject. There are plenty of things you don't know. Most of your comments read like a first year English student's vague attempts to sound insightful but fall flat on their face.

    Who cares if its lost on those outside of Dublin. Ever watch Treme? 80% of that show is lost on an audience outside of New Orleans. Its still the best show on TV now.


  • #73
    Imhof Tank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    What's your point? Are you saying that the name was coincidental? If so it was unfortunate, particularly as this was one of the most stereotyped characters. The fact that Christophers in Dublin are called Git would be lost on those outside Dublin, as that fact was unknown to me. I am not convinced it was coincidental.

    It was not co-incidental. It was not cheap, it was authentic, "truthful" and imo clever, just as clever as those Dickens examples you referenced.

    Totally over your head obviously.


  • #74
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    It was not co-incidental. It was not cheap, it was authentic, "truthful" and imo clever, just as clever as those Dickens examples you referenced.

    Totally over your head obviously.

    If you buy into the stereotype maybe? I didn't and thought it was cheap shorthand tbh.


  • #75
    PhiloCypher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    I agree with you OP insofar as the show isn't nor should it be above criticism, but perhaps you should direct some of this critical analysis at your own arguments from time to time. How can you get on your high horse and accuse Kirby(?) of allowing preconceptions to cloud his perfectly logical inferences based on what we've seen of the loughman family dynamic, when you're doing the exact same thing with Darren.

    On Darrens limited wardrobe, he's on the run for most of the season how many changes of cloths would you lug around with you???


  • #76
    Imhof Tank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    If you buy into the stereotype maybe? I didn't and thought it was cheap shorthand tbh.

    You are just embarrassing yourself now. How could you buy into the "stereotype" if you didnt understand the reference in the first place?

    Now if they called him Wacker or Redser you might have had a point.


  • #77
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    You are just embarrassing yourself now. How could you buy into the "stereotype" if you didnt understand the reference in the first place?

    Now if they called him Wacker or Redser you might have had a point.

    I have been saying this man was a stereotype since the first episode of the series aired (check the other thread if you don't believe) he was a stereotype for more reasons than the name they gave him.
    When you say 'it was clever' do you mean all RIRA men are similarly named or do you believe that they are gits? I don't understand your point about it being 'authentic'.


  • #78
    D-FENS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭D-FENS


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I think it was a little steal to Dallas tbh, done in the hope of setting off a 'Who Shot J.R.' type campaign. I sincerely hoped it wasn't done for that reason as it kinda cheapens a female character again, but looking at the screenshots it is most likely Lizzie. I personally think it would have been hugely more impactful if Lizzie had confronted him and he realised that it was her that was about to kill him, but that's just me.

    You should dust off your Dallas boxset, devoting this much time to Love/Hate is going give you an ulcer ;)


  • #79
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    D-FENS wrote: »
    You should dust off your Dallas boxset, devoting this much time to Love/Hate is going give you an ulcer ;)

    You might be right! :D


  • #80
    TheNap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 786 ✭✭✭TheNap


    Only thing i had an issue was some of the characters / casting .John Boy - Terrible , didnt convince me at all and was cringeworthy at times .Tommy - Dont see his relevance to the show and should of been killed off in season 1Debbie - No need for her in it at all Nidge is one of the best characters i've seen in any TV show , especially in season 2 & 3 .Overall the best drama i have seen on RTE 1 , altough i cant help but feel they could have made is so much better .


  • #81
    Imhof Tank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I have been saying this man was a stereotype since the first episode of the series aired (check the other thread if you don't believe) he was a stereotype for more reasons than the name they gave him.
    When you say 'it was clever' do you mean all RIRA men are similarly named or do you believe that they are gits? I don't understand your point about it being 'authentic'.

    I know what you have been saying all along. Then, in your efforts to bolster your case, you had a totally uninformed pop at the writers today for the Git name. You were obviously going around thinking “he’s a gurrier, they carefully chose the name Git for him, how clichéd”. That was a completely bogus theory and if you want to prove you are not just trolling your own thread you should just have the good grace to admit you were wrong on this small point at least.

    When I said it was clever, I meant firstly that it was commendable for them to bother to pick up little things like this from the street. This gives the script the truthfulness and authenticity which you claim to value and in my opinion sets it apart from the likes of Fair City. Secondly, they were playing with double meaning in a subtle way – subtlety that would go over the heads of some people – like yours.


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  • #82
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    I know what you have been saying all along. Then, in your efforts to bolster your case, you had a totally uninformed pop at the writers today for the Git name. You were obviously going around thinking “he’s a gurrier, they carefully chose the name Git for him, how clichéd”. That was a completely bogus theory and if you want to prove you are not just trolling your own thread you should just have the good grace to admit you were wrong on this small point at least.

    How many people do you think watching that first episode would have said to themselves...'Ah Git, that's short for Christopher'? That's all you need ask yourself. There are plenty of 'authentic ' Dublin names they could have chosen but they just happen to pick one that also describes what they wanted you to think of the character....hmmmm! You may be convincing yourself, but I'm sorry, it doesn't wash with me and I'm sure all the others who believe that there was some crude stereotyping going on here.
    When I said it was clever, I meant firstly that it was commendable for them to bother to pick up little things like this from the street. This gives the script the truthfulness and authenticity which you claim to value and in my opinion sets it apart from the likes of Fair City. Secondly, they were playing with double meaning in a subtle way – subtlety that would go over the heads of some people – like yours.
    It wasn't 'subtle' it was crude and cheap, more at home in a pantomine nowadays tbh.


  • #83
    Imhof Tank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    How many people do you think watching that first episode would have said to themselves...'Ah Git, that's short for Christopher'? That's all you need ask yourself. There are plenty of 'authentic ' Dublin names they could have chosen but they just happen to pick one that also describes what they wanted you to think of the character....hmmmm! You may be convincing yourself, but I'm sorry, it doesn't wash with me and I'm sure all the others who believe that there was some crude stereotyping going on here.


    It wasn't 'subtle' it was crude and cheap, more at home in a pantomine nowadays tbh.

    Not sure how many but I would guess more than said to themseles ..."Ah Git, that's pretty crude and stereotypical":rolleyes:

    If he was called Wayne that would have been too cliched for you.

    If he was called Bernard that wouldnt have been thuthful enough.

    I see finally that you have dropped the former passive aggressive posting style, resorting to making statements of fact, telling people how it is. Dont ever change Happy!:pac::pac:


  • #84
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,097 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    How many people do you think watching that first episode would have said to themselves...'Ah Git, that's short for Christopher'?

    just about anyone who was ever more than a mile from a cowshíte, mate :D


  • #85
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    Not sure how many but I would guess more than said to themseles ..."Ah Git, that's pretty crude and stereotypical":rolleyes:

    If he was called Wayne that would have been too cliched for you.

    If he was called Bernard that wouldnt have been thuthful enough.
    No, those names would have been fine, apart from a minor quibbel that Wayne wouldn't be a name I would associate with his age group. If you use a name that also means something else (in this case something nasty) then you have to think about using it, names are important, as Dickens knew, as any writer knows. How many romantic leads would be named Git, do you think? IMO these writers chose this name to underscore the stereotype they had created. The hard drinking, violent, hypocritical RIRA man. As I said in the other thread, a tired and default RTE/Irish television cliche.
    I see finally that you have dropped the former passive aggressive posting style, resorting to making statements of fact, telling people how it is. Dont ever change Happy!:pac::pac:
    Do you read your own posts, I could have sworn I just came out of a lecture after I read the one before your last one. :pac::pac:


  • #86
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,449 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    In relation to the name Git, anyone from Dublin (Dubs) aged between 20-50 would most likely know that Git is short for Christopher.


  • #87
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    How many people do you think watching that first episode would have said to themselves...'Ah Git, that's short for Christopher'? That's all you need ask yourself. There are plenty of 'authentic ' Dublin names they could have chosen but they just happen to pick one that also describes what they wanted you to think of the character....hmmmm! You may be convincing yourself, but I'm sorry, it doesn't wash with me and I'm sure all the others who believe that there was some crude stereotyping going on here.

    This is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever seen. In essence you are saying I am not knowledgeable on a subject like others may be but regardless of this fact I am correct in my earlier position despite being furnished with the correct info. Its like arguing with a creationist.


  • #88
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    This is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever seen. In essence you are saying I am not knowledgeable on a subject like others may be but regardless of this fact I am correct in my earlier position despite being furnished with the correct info. Its like arguing with a creationist.

    I wasn't aware that Git was an abbreviated form of Christopher in Dublin, google doesn't seem to know that either, as far as I can see, but I will take others on here word for it. Kitty or Kit would be the common abbreviation where I am from.
    My point doesn't change though for the reasons stated, a name that means something else has to be carefully thought about. If they where casting around for an authentic Dublin name they had loads of choice. I think they chose this one deliberately because it also means something very specific.


  • #89
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    The two Christophers I know of have both had the nickname Git, so I, and probably most other Dubs, would have known from the outset. It's an authentic Dublin name as you can get.

    I won't word it as harshly but just because you didn't know something doesn't make your argument valid or relevant.


  • #90
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    Happyman,
    To be honest I don't understand your position on the IRA in this show (can't remember if they are meant to be the CIRA or RIRA). You seem to be suggesting that by right they should only be depicted as noble, warrior poets fighting the good fight. What they get up to in the real world is pretty damn similar to what they are up to in Love/Hate.

    The vast majority of PIRA members accepted that the conflict was over in 1998. This was in accordance with the opinion of the vast majority on either side of the border as expressed in the referenda on either side of the border on the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

    Dissident republicans are a bunch of knuckle draggers pure and simple. They are the flipside of the coin to drug dealing loyalist paramilitaries in the north. They have practically no public support. They live in a fantasy world where they actually think they can drive the British out of Norn Iron, something the much larger, better equiped and technically more proficent PIRA could not achieve. Their stellar achievement to date has been killing 31 civilians in Omagh. Other than that they have killed more drug dealers and/or their own members than members of the security forces.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/index.html

    These fellas are just too dim-witted to see that the writing was on the wall 14 years ago and yet they carry on with their bullsh1t. Any of the interviews with Alan Ryan I've read display a mid-boggling lack of knowledge of history or politics. That said, I do give him top marks for his ability to chop the fingers off lads who didn't pay up on time.

    Plenty of TV shows and films have depicted IRA members in a good light or as complex charecters. This one doesn't, you can't win them all.


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  • #91
    Imhof Tank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    . How many romantic leads would be named Git, do you think?

    Already gave you one - the hero in I Went Down, which according to a quick check on Wiki was praised by the New York Times reviewer for "steering clear of Irish movie stereotypes and instead showing off a spare and quizzical indie spirit"


    Git is not a perjorative term in Dublin in the context of people called Christopher as it is in your world obviously. A person named Christopher wouldnt generally be offended by it.


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