Working stupidly hard

mikemac1 · 16-12-2012 11:38PM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

The office I work in now has 8 staff and is owned by a married couple and they couldn't care less about compensating their staff.

pixiebean22 wrote: »

The woman is a crazy person. She is also the principal fee earner and there is nobody above her so if there's a problem there's nowhere to go.

Lawyers are supposed to be ruthless

Go out on your own and steal all the clients :P

gg2 · 16-12-2012 11:50PM

Aciiiiiiiiiiid wrote: »

I think putting in extra hours gets noticed more in smaller companies, especially when the owners/directors are lurking around. Doing free overtime in big corporate multinationals is for the birds though.

I work for a small business. We earn slightly above minimum wage, we have recieved a pay cut and several other cutbacks throughout the last year.
Its a family business and they couldn't give a toss. Staff open in the morning, close in the evening- management may show their faces 3/4 hours a day 4/5 days a week. Staff cash up take care of all orders, invoicing- the usual day to day running. They deal with all issues unless management is requested... but they're generally not around....the place is effectively been run for them. And we are treated like ****

daenerysstormborn3 · 16-12-2012 11:53PM

gg2 wrote: »

I work for a small business. We earn slightly above minimum wage, we have recieved a pay cut and several other cutbacks throughout the last year.
Its a family business and they couldn't give a toss. Staff open in the morning, close in the evening- management may show their faces 3/4 hours a day 4/5 days a week. Staff cash up take care of all orders, invoicing- the usual day to day running. They deal with all issues unless management is requested... but they're generally not around....the place is effectively been run for them. And we are treated like ****

Same as. The couple I work for, the man comes in around 10/11 everyday, and the woman comes in 2-3 days a week, sometimes less, and arrives in at lunchtime. And god help you if you ring her in the morning to ask her a question about actual work, she generally goes off shopping and you get the face chewed off you for disturbing her.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 16-12-2012 11:53PM

Well, you're being paid for your time, if they want to move to a different payment model, then they should do that and stop whining.
Working for free is a race to the bottom, one I'm sure they're only too happy to encourage by "noticing" people from time to time.

gg2 · 16-12-2012 11:55PM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Same as. The couple I work for, the man comes in around 10/11 everyday, and the woman comes in 2-3 days a week, sometimes less, and arrives in at lunchtime. And god help you if you ring her in the morning to ask her a question about actual work, she generally goes off shopping and you get the face chewed off you for disturbing her.

Do you know what else I HATE! You have to find something out, run into office and the daggers are being thrown for disturbing them!

amacca · 16-12-2012 11:56PM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Everything I do for her is put in a memo and I'm still told "you picked that up wrong" or her favourite line in the world "we had a miscommunication".

It's sad because there are only 8 of us in the office and anytime any of us are communicating with her it is either by memo or e-mail so we have written proof but we all still get told that whatever we did is wrong.

The woman is a crazy person. She is also the principal fee earner and there is nobody above her so if there's a problem there's nowhere to go.

hmmm..now that is a difficult one

didn't mean to seem condescending btw if it came across that way....thought it might help as I thought I was in a similar situation once although it now seems as if you're working for a borderline delusional sociopath

a woman who gives written instructions and then denies she gave them or claims you misinterpret them

hammy

I've never felt I ever really needed any job I've worked in and so I've been braver than most with fcuktard bosses so you should bear that in mind when you read what comes next

I would be firstly tempted to save/archive/collect any records of instructions which were then denied etc

This means you need to try and get her to email any new instruction which countermands anything she goes back on so you then have a record of her issuing an instruction and then countermanding it.....in short get as much on paper as possible...keep records (unobtrusively) if nothing else it will give you something to do that is related to dealing with your problem and make you feel like you're not powerless and probably keep you a bit happier around the office

I would also make it a point of asking very politely etc (again via email) for clarification on any instructions which you think could later become "miscommunications"

after you build up a good portfolio of these see if the situation hasn't improved
...my bets is that it will because she will have been subtly forced to write down instructions going against her originals.

if this doesn't work.......then armed with a good (written) record of her continuous miscommunication (make sure you have a good long history clearly showing her to be in the wrong on countless occasions mind)......I would start fighting back and take no sh1t .....firstly my emails would be gently prodding with nice little phrases like "are you sure now I would hate for this to become another miscommunication" etc

if that didnt work then I'd wait for her to try it again in front of the others and I'd point out politely to her how she had continually failed to take responsibility for her own incompetence etc ....hit her straight into the face with the truth so to speak as opposed to actually hitting her into the face with your chair (something most would be sorely tempted to do I'd bet)

if it came to threat of dismissal I would then provide her with a printout of her mess ups and tell her about labour courts/bullying in the workplace legislation and unfair dismissals claims....but tbh if it comes to that you probably wont want to work there anyway

option 2 is to sit back and wait for someone else in the office to crack and let her have it as they eventually will if she is as much of a fcukwit as she seems to be....and they can cut a bow wave for you....believe me they eventually will if she is as you describe....the only problem with this is will it happen in a satisfactory timeframe for you

Czarcasm · 17-12-2012 12:01AM

Remmy wrote: »

Slightly off topic but I read a shed load of rags to riches entrepreneur books. The majority of these guys started off busting their arse for someone else and putting in crazy long hours for a few years to then have a high up management position before going off and doing something off their own back. Just how realistic is this? I am just out of college and I have very little "real world experience". There are a load of boardsies with more life experience than me so I'd be interested in hearing their take on it. Threads like this shows me how little I know about the working world.

Speaking from personal experience I can say this is very much achievable! There seems to be an awful lot of "My boss doesn't recognise my greatness" going on in this thread, but a lot of it stems from having the wrong attitude. You're getting paid for a job, but within that job and outside it you have to make your own opportunities.

I've worked in various jobs since I was 16 and used them to pay my own way through college, then I could've rested on my laurels and cruised along when I got a high paying job, but I didn't- I made time to go to other courses and did another degree course and got my employer to pay for other courses I attended. I kept upskilling myself in other areas unrelated to my then current employment simply for the hell of it tbh, out of my own pocket.

Now I am self employed and quite frankly earning about a quarter of what I was once earning, but I get to spend more time with my family and I'm much less stressed. I'm happier. Even my wife has commented that I'm not the same unconscionable bastard I was back then! I'm still as driven, but now my motivations are different.

I'm still very much about personal development and very much still a capitalist at heart, but recently I felt like something was "missing", and so I have recently involved in doing charity work and it's quite fulfilling, as I feel that I am "giving something back" (cliche I know!), but I feel like I was once in their position, and I would have loved if someone like me now had been there at the time. If I can help someone fulfill their potential I see in them, that seems to give me far more satisfaction than landing a big client in my work.

cartell_best · 17-12-2012 12:12AM

The greatest lesson I have ever learned from a person that I worked for was how you do not treat people.. I took that lesson and use it to this very day. Simply because? she was a biatch and had no understanding of the difference between a person working for/working with. I learned from her, how not to treat people.

daenerysstormborn3 · 17-12-2012 12:15AM

amacca wrote: »

hmmm..now that is a difficult one

didn't mean to seem condescending btw if it came across that way....thought it might help as I thought I was in a similar situation once although it now seems as if you're working for a borderline delusional sociopath

a woman who gives written instructions and then denies she gave them or claims you misinterpret them

hammy

I've never felt I ever really needed any job I've worked in and so I've been braver than most with fcuktard bosses so you should bear that in mind when you read what comes next

I would be firstly tempted to save/archive/collect any records of instructions which were then denied etc

This means you need to try and get her to email any new instruction which countermands anything she goes back on so you then have a record of her issuing an instruction and then countermanding it.....in short get as much on paper as possible...keep records (unobtrusively) if nothing else it will give you something to do that is related to dealing with your problem and make you feel like you're not powerless and probably keep you a bit happier around the office

I would also make it a point of asking very politely etc (again via email) for clarification on any instructions which you think could later become "miscommunications"

after you build up a good portfolio of these see if the situation hasn't improved
...my bets is that it will because she will have been subtly forced to write down instructions going against her originals.

if this doesn't work.......then armed with a good (written) record of her continuous miscommunication (make sure you have a good long history clearly showing her to be in the wrong on countless occasions mind)......I would start fighting back and take no sh1t .....firstly my emails would be gently prodding with nice little phrases like "are you sure now I would hate for this to become another miscommunication" etc

if that didnt work then I'd wait for her to try it again in front of the others and I'd point out politely to her how she had continually failed to take responsibility for her own incompetence etc ....hit her straight into the face with the truth so to speak as opposed to actually hitting her into the face with your chair (something most would be sorely tempted to do I'd bet)

if it came to threat of dismissal I would then provide her with a printout of her mess ups and tell her about labour courts/bullying in the workplace legislation and unfair dismissals claims....but tbh if it comes to that you probably wont want to work there anyway

option 2 is to sit back and wait for someone else in the office to crack and let her have it as they eventually will if she is as much of a fcukwit as she seems to be....and they can cut a bow wave for you....believe me they eventually will if she is as you describe....the only problem with this is will it happen in a satisfactory timeframe for you

She puts very little into writing for the exact reason that there would then be evidence. Plus, she's so rarely in the office that it's near impossible to get anything in writing. She even denies what she has said in dictation, like an actual recording of her voice saying "do A", she'll then say "well you should have known I meant B, like we discussed on the phone".

I had a conversation with her less than 2 weeks ago about this exact matter and she made out I was blowing things out of proportion. One of the other staff members gave her a 25 page document detailing all of this kind of rubbish with plenty of examples and it made no difference.

I know you're trying to be helpful and I appreciate the time you are taking to reply but it's all been done before. I've worked there less than 2 years and there has been 13 legal secretaries through the office in that time. In an office with 8 staff members, 3 of which are permanent fixtures, that is unreal.

She's had loads of bullying cases against her. Unfortunately she has all the right connections with judges, barristers etc. We have all recently joined a union but I don't see that making a massive difference.

daenerysstormborn3 · 17-12-2012 12:24AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Speaking from personal experience I can say this is very much achievable! There seems to be an awful lot of "My boss doesn't recognise my greatness" going on in this thread, but a lot of it stems from having the wrong attitude. You're getting paid for a job, but within that job and outside it you have to make your own opportunities.

I've worked in various jobs since I was 16 and used them to pay my own way through college, then I could've rested on my laurels and cruised along when I got a high paying job, but I didn't- I made time to go to other courses and did another degree course and got my employer to pay for other courses I attended. I kept upskilling myself in other areas unrelated to my then current employment simply for the hell of it tbh, out of my own pocket.

Now I am self employed and quite frankly earning about a quarter of what I was once earning, but I get to spend more time with my family and I'm much less stressed. I'm happier. Even my wife has commented that I'm not the same unconscionable bastard I was back then! I'm still as driven, but now my motivations are different.

I'm still very much about personal development and very much still a capitalist at heart, but recently I felt like something was "missing", and so I have recently involved in doing charity work and it's quite fulfilling, as I feel that I am "giving something back" (cliche I know!), but I feel like I was once in their position, and I would have loved if someone like me now had been there at the time. If I can help someone fulfill their potential I see in them, that seems to give me far more satisfaction than landing a big client in my work.

The last 2 years I have applied for the same course (it's the only beneficial one available to me in the South East that I could do while continuing to work, my partner is a full-time student, we can't afford two full-time students in the house unfortunately), to upskill and hopefully move onto greener pastures, but it has been cancelled both years due to inadequate numbers.

Unfortunately I am not in a field where I could just decide to head out on my own. My partner did open his own business and we had hopes that I would eventually be able to join him but the county council shut him down after a few brown envelopes were passed around (I'm not going to go into detail about that).

I am starting volunteering with Simon South East after Christmas - I would've liked to start sooner but it just wasn't possible, probably limited resources with the month that's in it.

amacca · 17-12-2012 12:37AM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

She puts very little into writing for the exact reason that there would then be evidence. Plus, she's so rarely in the office that it's near impossible to get anything in writing. She even denies what she has said in dictation, like an actual recording of her voice saying "do A", she'll then say "well you should have known I meant B, like we discussed on the phone".

I had a conversation with her less than 2 weeks ago about this exact matter and she made out I was blowing things out of proportion. One of the other staff members gave her a 25 page document detailing all of this kind of rubbish with plenty of examples and it made no difference.

oh, I thought ye only communicated via memo/email....so she's smarter than you're average bear.......the fact that she rarely writes things down while being a strength of hers can also potentially be exploited as a weakness........never over the phone but in person you can try the same trick back.....when she does give you an instruction pretend you've never heard it, when she doesn't give you one do something and say she told you to do it.......when others step in show them where you have asked her to email you/write down instructions as she continually issues instructions which she then denies......in short you could try to become a difficult customer for her to handle so she is forced to play fair and is motivated to give you clear instructions with no possibility for you to misinterpret -- I would basically try and play her at her own game if at all possible.....frustrate the hole off her...that without a full understanding of your particular situation is what I think i would do

it is also possible to record conversations/phone conversations without being detected although I'm not sure about the legalities here + it seems a bit over the top even to me - never ever say anything on the phone that she might record though

pixiebean22 wrote: »

I know you're trying to be helpful and I appreciate the time you are taking to reply but it's all been done before. I've worked there less than 2 years and there has been 13 legal secretaries through the office in that time. In an office with 8 staff members, 3 of which are permanent fixtures, that is unreal.

And I know that sometimes the kind of glib answers provided here along the lines of "ah sure thats no problem I just did x and it was sorted" given with little real understanding of a situation can be infuriating so I hope I'm not coming across that way......just thinking what I would do or a fresh pair of eyes looking at the situation might be of some use......I've worked for some gigantic arses in my time as well as some fantastic people and I'm now a boss of bosses of sorts myself hoping i'm reasonable to deal with...in any event I'll shut up after this reply annd wish you the best in a difficult situation

+ maybe this one isn't solvable and the best thing you can do is put up with it while looking for a better situation and preserving a good reference?

I know i couldn't work for someone like that indefinitely

pixiebean22 wrote: »

She's had loads of bullying cases against her. Unfortunately she has all the right connections with judges, barristers etc. We have all recently joined a union but I don't see that making a massive difference.

that to me would actually be better news than it seems...theres a history there...and a documented one..the general consensus seems to be that shes a cnut...no smoke without a fire and all that, that plays badly for her could be used very effectively against her along with any evidence you have if you ever felt you wanted to or it was worthwhile taking her on in a public way....

daenerysstormborn3 · 17-12-2012 12:49AM

amacca wrote: »

oh, I thought ye only communicated via memo/email....so she's smarter than you're average bear.......the fact that she rarely writes things down while being a strength of hers can also potentially be exploited as a weakness........never over the phone but in person you can try the same trick back.....when she does give you an instruction pretend you've never heard it, when she doesn't give you one do something and say she told you to do it.......when others step in show them where you have asked her to email you/write down instructions as she continually issues instructions which she then denies......in short you could try to become a difficult customer for her to handle so she is forced to play fair and is motivated to give you clear instructions with no possibility for you to misinterpret -- I would basically try and play her at her own game if at all possible.....frustrate the hole off her

it is also possible to record conversations/phone conversations without being detected although I'm not sure about the legalities here + it seems a bit over the top even to me - never ever say anything on the phone that she might record though

And I know that sometimes the kind of glib answers provided here along the lines of "ah sure thats no problem I just did x and it was sorted" given with no understanding of a situation can be infuriating so I hope I'm not coming across that way......just thinking it might be of some use......I've worked for some gigantic arses in my time as well as some fantastic people and I'm now a boss of bosses of sorts myself hoping i'm reasonable to deal with

maybe this one isn't solvable and the best thing you can do is put up with it while looking for a better situation and preserving a good reference?

I know i couldn't work for someone like that indefinitely

thats actually better news than it seems...theres a history there...and a documented one...no smoke without a fire, that could be used very effectively against her along with any evidence you have if you ever felt you wanted to or it was worthwhile taking her on....

It's illegal to record someone without their knowledge AFAIK.

When I spoke to her 2 weeks ago it was because she asked me to do something, I spent 3 hours doing that thing, she then said she asked me to do something different and chewed the face off me. During our earlier phone conversation I actually had her on speaker so one of the girls I sit beside heard the whole conversation and was able to back up what i was saying, still not enough. She's just mad.

October last year and this year I sent my cv to every solicitor's office in Wexford, Tipperary, Kilkenny and Waterford just to make sure I'm out there. Unfortunately job opportunities are fairly low around these parts. My partner finishes college in May so if he can get a good job, we're hoping I might be able to leave my horrible job and get a different job, probably lower paid, because I won't be the sole earner then.

cfc1888 · 17-12-2012 12:53AM

Johro wrote: »

Plenty do.
On subject, I work for myself, so sometimes I got to work harder, sometimes I give myself a break. Sometimes there isn't the work so I have to work extra hard for a while when I do get work to make it up. There now.

What the f is your point?

Scruffles · 17-12-2012 12:55AM

the support staff here [a autism/ld residential centre] are treated like sh/t every day. staff are regulary forced to work in the companies independant living houses because their staff are off sick and it leaves us short of staff so affects our life to.
they are talked to like they are a piece of sh/t by the area/higher managers, they are expected to drop everything in the name of covering someone whose called in sick because they dont mind taking staff from us but not returning the favour when needed.
if they make a mistake they are talked to like worse than sh/t by the higher managers,as if they havent done anything wrong here themselves-some staff have ran out streaming in tears because of it.
loads of staff leave strictly because of how they are treated,every week or so they have a new staff in next door where the higher management offices are.

the higher managers have ranted at staff about smoking in a particular area and said its a health and safety requirement not to smoke there as well as being unprofesional yet the other day when out feeding the chucks had caught her smoking there herself; she stubbed her fag out and ran in quickly.
going to have fun telling all the smoking staff who have been abused by her for this, am not a fan of her as am spoke to like dirt by her on most ocasions unless am with our manager,plus she has ruined quality of life [mine] with her health and safety bollox-made up to suit her wants.

some of the staff do amazing stuff for our place,and they have started to get really worn down as it isnt even acknowledged,though am always apreciative of them and respect them its a pity they are seen as expendable-the amazing staff are hard to find on their wages.

smileyj1987 · 17-12-2012 01:00AM

Its good to see you have learned that lesson , now all you do is enough work that they can't sack you . As the old saying goes " Work to live don't live to work " .

token101 · 17-12-2012 01:15AM

peterk675 wrote: »

Kinda off topic, but i think OP will get the gist..

Amazing what a bit of Einaudi will do for a piece of video. Firstly, it's not sustainable for me to go and become a pro wrestler because my lack of ability means I wouldn't earn enough to cover the steroids I'll need, so I'd just end up getting beat up and starving. There's flaw number one in his theory. Number two, I'm unaware of a professional Football Manager position that will earn me real currency. I don't want to become an actual football manager, that's too stressful. I just want to play the computer game all day, every day. And number three, there's no type of position that will pay me to consume alcohol all day. All things I wish to do that will not put food on the table. So I shall go back to ball achingly dull job....and play Football Manager because there's no one else in the office!

donegal_road · 17-12-2012 01:28AM

5 of the most common regrets expressed by patients in a hospice for the dying

2. I wish I didn’t work so hard.

“This came from every male patient that I nursed”, said Bonnie Ware. “They missed their children’s youth and their partner’s companionship. Women also spoke of this regret. But as most were from an older generation, many of the female patients had not been breadwinners. All of the men I nursed deeply regretted spending so much of their lives on the treadmill of a work existence.”

..and in other headlines

Finnish tax office employee dead for 2 days before anyone noticed

amacca · 17-12-2012 02:02AM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

It's illegal to record someone without their knowledge AFAIK.

know I said I'd shut up but..yeah....thought it might be....I'd love to see the look on her face if you told her you will be recording your conversations from now on due to her continuous backtracking and generally irrational bullying behaviour etc:D

pixiebean22 wrote: »

When I spoke to her 2 weeks ago it was because she asked me to do something, I spent 3 hours doing that thing, she then said she asked me to do something different and chewed the face off me. During our earlier phone conversation I actually had her on speaker so one of the girls I sit beside heard the whole conversation and was able to back up what i was saying, still not enough. She's just mad.

what goes around comes around...... eventually and sometimes in unexpected ways, someone like this always meets their match in my experience or will have or has had or is having other problems of their own..or if they are a totally loose cannon it catches up with them in spectacular fashion when it all comes to a head - trick is to not get dragged down with them

dont let it get you down, keep doing what you're doing re looking for other opportunities and things will in all likelihood improve

in any event I wish you the best of luck with the other job-hunt and hope it works out for you

Im_That_Girl · 17-12-2012 04:00AM

I learned this lesson a decade ago in my first job. It's not the amount of work that get's you credit. It's the people you become friends with in the office that get's you noticed by the boss. So quit working so hard and start working on becoming friends with the people that are in your bosses inner circle (his P.A, the office manager, etc).

Idjit · 17-12-2012 11:54PM

I've recently learned this exact same lesson. I just wish I hadn't spent a year in my current job ignorant of it because I'm now suffering the backlash for relaxing my stance.

Johro · 20-12-2012 12:04AM

cfc1888 wrote: »

What the f is your point?

I don't know. Must've been a bad day.

Pure_Cork · 21-12-2012 06:11PM

On a related note, one of my colleagues had a stress-related heart attack while sitting at their desk today. They will be ok. If my eyes hadn't already been opened, they certainly are now.

Working stupidly hard

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