Getting out of negative equity - regain your freedom! Interested? [Mad thread]

ChicoMendez · 16-12-2012 06:20PM #1

Hi there

60k people in mortgage arrears they say...

What would you do to get out of negative equity ? If someone offered you a way of getting rid of your house for the price you paid for it (legally) what lengths would you be willing to go to ?
Would you be willing to put in a few days/weeks/months of work ?

Dodgy you may think - no not really - I just have an idea to try to get about 30-ish families / homeowners out of the dirty situations they find themselves in...
I'm currently talking to a solicitor to see about the viability of this idea and how it would work legally. I have the website ready to go etc.

Tnx

dvpower · 16-12-2012 06:28PM

ChicoMendez wrote: »

Dodgy you may think - no not really - I just have an idea to try to get about 30-ish families / homeowners out of the dirty situations they find themselves in...
I'm currently talking to a solicitor to see about the viability of this idea and how it would work legally. I have the website ready to go etc.

Sounds very dodgy.
Are you going to be telling people here what the idea is or do they have to sign up and pay your fee first?

mikemac1 · 16-12-2012 06:30PM

So are you are you going to hold conferences in hotels around Ireland?

People pay to get in and the only person improving their finances is you

ted1 · 16-12-2012 06:31PM

Negative equity and mortgage arrears are two very different issues.

ChicoMendez · 16-12-2012 06:33PM

dvpower wrote: »

Sounds very dodgy.
Are you going to be telling people here what the idea is or do they have to sign up and pay your fee first?

absolutely NO FEE ! i want to finish my discussion with solicitors first before i share the idea

ChicoMendez · 16-12-2012 06:35PM

ted1 wrote: »

Negative equity and mortgage arrears are two very different issues.

true different - but im sure EVERYONE without exception would jump at getting out of either ?

keith16 · 16-12-2012 06:35PM

How is negative equity "a dirty situation"?

ChicoMendez · 16-12-2012 06:38PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

So are you are you going to hold conferences in hotels around Ireland?

People pay to get in and the only person improving their finances is you

nope - what i would get out of this project is escaping negative equity and it would only happen if we all 30 achieve the same thing

ChicoMendez · 16-12-2012 06:40PM

keith16 wrote: »

How is negative equity "a dirty situation"?

a dirty situation
an unfortunate situation

use whatever words you want

do a search in the forums and see the unfortunate circumstances of people as they tell their stories - don't seem to be to be a rosy situation

keith16 · 16-12-2012 07:30PM

ChicoMendez wrote: »

a dirty situation
an unfortunate situation

use whatever words you want

do a search in the forums and see the unfortunate circumstances of people as they tell their stories - don't seem to be to be a rosy situation

I know plenty of people who are in negative equity but could not give a fuck. Because they view their house as a home and not an investment. They have a roof over their head and they are meeting their repayments.

Honest to christ, what is peoples fascination with property in this country? The term "property ladder" that was so prevalent in the boom has now been replaced with "negative equity" -it's like there has to be always some sort of burden put on people.

Paulw · 16-12-2012 08:28PM

keith16 wrote: »

I know plenty of people who are in negative equity but could not give a fuck. Because they view their house as a home and not an investment.

Exactly. Rumour has it that I am in negative equity. But, so what? Is it causing me problems? No. Is it causing me sleepless nights? No. Is it causing me to worry? No.

This is my home. I am paying my mortgage and like where I live.

If I ever have to move, then, and only then, will I be concerned if it is in negative equity or not. Like the vast majority of people, I have a home, and that's all I need.

djimi · 16-12-2012 09:02PM

keith16 wrote: »

Honest to christ, what is peoples fascination with property in this country? The term "property ladder" that was so prevalent in the boom has now been replaced with "negative equity" -it's like there has to be always some sort of burden put on people.

Its because too many people bought into the notion of a property ladder; they felt that they had to buy something, anything, to get their "foot on the ladder" with it only being a view to being a short term purchase rather than a home they were going to be in for years. These people are now stuck in a house that is too small for their needs, and dont stand a chance of selling it as it is worth half what they owe on it.

Whoever came up with the concept of a property ladder should be taken out and publically flogged. Such a fundementally stupid concept that has screwed so many people over.

Zamboni · 16-12-2012 10:00PM

ChicoMendez wrote: »

i want to finish my discussion with solicitors first before i share the idea

Great.
We will be here waiting.
With baited breath.

socco · 17-12-2012 11:33AM

ChicoMendez wrote: »

If someone offered you a way of getting rid of your house for the price you paid for it (legally) what lengths would you be willing to go to ?

you sir, are either a genius... or this has to be dodgy! Time shall tell which

silja · 17-12-2012 12:17PM

It's kinda hard to give you an opinion when you won't tell us anything about the scheme.

JohnFalstaff · 17-12-2012 12:42PM

- Negative Equity
- 30 people
- ????
- Profit!!!

The barber of chewbacca · 17-12-2012 12:50PM

ChicoMendez wrote: »

Hi there

60k people in mortgage arrears they say...

What would you do to get out of negative equity ? If someone offered you a way of getting rid of your house for the price you paid for it (legally) what lengths would you be willing to go to ?
Would you be willing to put in a few days/weeks/months of work ?

Dodgy you may think - no not really - I just have an idea to try to get about 30-ish families / homeowners out of the dirty situations they find themselves in...
I'm currently talking to a solicitor to see about the viability of this idea and how it would work legally. I have the website ready to go etc.

Tnx

Could this idea be something akin to a pyramid scheme?

Procrastastudy · 17-12-2012 12:53PM

ChicoMendez wrote: »

absolutely NO FEE ! i want to finish my discussion with solicitors first before i share the idea

So why start a thread on it? :rolleyes:

I know something you don't know... na na na na na :pac:

djimi · 17-12-2012 02:08PM

ChicoMendez wrote: »

absolutely NO FEE !

the world wonders · 17-12-2012 03:06PM

Does this plan involve freemen on the land, flags with gold fringes, admiralty law, signatures in green ink and legal fictions named in ALL CAPS?

If so I want in!

beaner88 · 17-12-2012 06:15PM

the world wonders wrote: »

Does this plan involve freemen on the land, flags with gold fringes, admiralty law, signatures in green ink and legal fictions named in ALL CAPS?

If so I want in!

Lol some new ones there I had not heard before. I'd love to meet a freeman and get them to take me through their beliefs.

murphaph · 17-12-2012 08:32PM

ChicoMendez wrote: »

Hi there

60k people in mortgage arrears they say...

What would you do to get out of negative equity ? If someone offered you a way of getting rid of your house for the price you paid for it (legally) what lengths would you be willing to go to ?
Would you be willing to put in a few days/weeks/months of work ?

Dodgy you may think - no not really - I just have an idea to try to get about 30-ish families / homeowners out of the dirty situations they find themselves in...
I'm currently talking to a solicitor to see about the viability of this idea and how it would work legally. I have the website ready to go etc.

Tnx

How about paying back the money you borrowed of your own free will and getting on with living in your home?

Senna · 17-12-2012 09:34PM

ChicoMendez wrote: »

Would you be willing to put in a few days/weeks/months of work ?

Jesus this just blew my mind.....wait for it......you work and earn money and use that money to pay off the NE or arrers.
Chirst OP why didn't I think of this before.

riclad · 18-12-2012 05:54PM

IF you are in ne ,its not a disaster if you are single ,on a good wage and happy to continue living where you are.I know someone bought 1bed apartment ,i don,t think she cares its in ne,by 40 per cent , as far as i know.
it,s a lovely apartment in a nice quiet area.

AT some point the irish banks may make it easy to transfer a ne loan, eg if you are on a good wage ,and want to buy a larger house ,eg move from a one bed to a 3bed dwelling.
The banks were lending recklessly,i believe in some cases they should be made to write off x amount,
especially if the person sells the house.
my friend sold btl house 3bed ,bank wrote off 20k, house was sold for 80k.
HER lawyer said thats,it case closed ,they are not asking you for another cent.House was empty for 2 years,she told bank can.t afford to pay you,
did not pay 1cent since january 2010.
was offered 80k, in march 2010 ,bank blocked the sale ,said offer too low.

MAYBE banks are doing deals ,write offs now,on ne btl house sales, but its not in the papers ,not reported in papers unless there,s a court case.
she rented btl for 9 years, had to put in about 110 euros on top of rent income ,to cover mortgage,each month.
i think banks would write off x amount ,if you put house up for sale,maybe 20 per cent ,if you paid 200k, house is worth 100k,
20 per cent would not make much difference.

bobbysands81 · 19-12-2012 10:37AM

keith16 wrote: »

I know plenty of people who are in negative equity but could not give a fuck. Because they view their house as a home and not an investment. They have a roof over their head and they are meeting their repayments.

Honest to christ, what is peoples fascination with property in this country? The term "property ladder" that was so prevalent in the boom has now been replaced with "negative equity" -it's like there has to be always some sort of burden put on people.

I never understood how negative equity could effect someone until recently.

Someone very close to me had to move out of Dublin in order to keep her job. She now has to rent a home in her new county. As such she has to pay the second home tax and as her home in Dublin is now considered an investment property she was put on a higher mortgage interest rate by the bank. She has to rent out her place in Dublin and pay PRTB fees, management fees etc...

The rent she takes in from the property doesn't come close to covering the mortgage and all other costs yet she is taxed on this rental income as if its normal income from a job... even though she's losing a substantial amount of money a month. The PRSI announcement in the Budget means she has to pay even more a month for the privilege of losing money.

She can't sell the place as the bank won't let her due to being in negative equity and she can't afford to keep renting it out as its costing her a couple of hundred euro a month.

That's what's meant by the negative equity trap.

D3PO · 19-12-2012 11:29AM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I never understood how negative equity could effect someone until recently.

Someone very close to me had to move out of Dublin in order to keep her job. She now has to rent a home in her new county. As such she has to pay the second home tax and as her home in Dublin is now considered an investment property she was put on a higher mortgage interest rate by the bank. She has to rent out her place in Dublin and pay PRTB fees, management fees etc...

The rent she takes in from the property doesn't come close to covering the mortgage and all other costs yet she is taxed on this rental income as if its normal income from a job... even though she's losing a substantial amount of money a month. The PRSI announcement in the Budget means she has to pay even more a month for the privilege of losing money.

She can't sell the place as the bank won't let her due to being in negative equity and she can't afford to keep renting it out as its costing her a couple of hundred euro a month.

That's what's meant by the negative equity trap.

gotta wonder how close to true this is and how much is exaggerated by your friend. God knows how much of this country likes to exaggerate.

1) Shes have had to pay the management fees even if she lived in Dublin still, and she isnt paying them on her rental property so its moot.

2) Shes entitled to rental tax credits which will offset some if only a little of her extra expenses, add to that that her rent in a diff county will be less than in Dublin that also offsets some of these extra costs.

3) I dont believe her bank has put up her interest rate. I know lots of people in similar situations and none of them have had this happen

4) She could go interest only on her mortgage. 75% of which is then deductible when filing a tax return add in 12.5% depreciation on the furniture etc in her original home, and this paltry rental income you indicate shes getting and there's no way she has taxable liability

The negative equity trap only exists if you cannot afford the mortgage, your friend doesnt fit that category at all. He / she might believe they are in a worse off situation but the laws of probability are that they arent and are just having a moan and exaggerating their point to make it.

Just taking some very basic headline figures to show an example

Mortgage €1,500 a month (Interest €1000 capital €500)
Rent Received €800
Rent in new property down the country €600

In that situation €750 of the monthly interest is tax deductable leaving €50 which would be taxable minus expenses depreciation, PRTB fees, accountancy fees etc etc etc. Basically no tax payable to revenue

At the same time your friend would have an outlay of €600 for their rent & either go interest only and that be it or pay the capital portion off their house aswell (which makes no sense when you can deduct 75% of the interest your paying) as you would want to keep that interest amount up to get the most relief possible.

Now thats very rough but example but the fact is people who have had to move out and rent due to their job moving are not impacted by NE at all (unless moving from a low cost rental area to a high cost area like Leitrim to Dublin or something)

the people caught are the people who have lost their jobs, not your friend despite how much they try and convince themselves they are impacted

Del2005 · 19-12-2012 12:59PM

riclad wrote: »

IF you are in ne ,its not a disaster if you are single ,on a good wage and happy to continue living where you are.I know someone bought 1bed apartment ,i don,t think she cares its in ne,by 40 per cent , as far as i know.
it,s a lovely apartment in a nice quiet area.

AT some point the irish banks may make it easy to transfer a ne loan, eg if you are on a good wage ,and want to buy a larger house ,eg move from a one bed to a 3bed dwelling.
The banks were lending recklessly,i believe in some cases they should be made to write off x amount,
especially if the person sells the house.
my friend sold btl house 3bed ,bank wrote off 20k, house was sold for 80k.
HER lawyer said thats,it case closed ,they are not asking you for another cent.House was empty for 2 years,she told bank can.t afford to pay you,
did not pay 1cent since january 2010.
was offered 80k, in march 2010 ,bank blocked the sale ,said offer too low.

MAYBE banks are doing deals ,write offs now,on ne btl house sales, but its not in the papers ,not reported in papers unless there,s a court case.
she rented btl for 9 years, had to put in about 110 euros on top of rent income ,to cover mortgage,each month.
i think banks would write off x amount ,if you put house up for sale,maybe 20 per cent ,if you paid 200k, house is worth 100k,
20 per cent would not make much difference.

Can someone please translate?

[Jackass] · 19-12-2012 03:54PM

ChicoMendez wrote: »

absolutely NO FEE ! i want to finish my discussion with solicitors first before i share the idea

Hi everyone.

I just wish to give you a heads up. I will be opening a thread in this forum tomorrow to let you know that I'm starting an entrpreneur course on Monday. In 6 - 8 weeks I will finish and have my business idea and then I will come back to the thread then and let you know what it is.

Let me know if you're interested and / or want to invest.

NO PM'S PLEASE! I'M EXPECTING A LARGE RESPONSE AND CAN NOT REPLY ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS.

*warning: values of investments may fall as well as rise. vendor can take no liability to loss of investment, reputation and / or identity. investment is free followed by contracted investment schedule for a post-determined time frame. funds can not be redrawn from investment prior to descretion of investor and penalties will apply

Cuddlesworth · 19-12-2012 05:03PM

In theory there is a few things you could do.

If you were to gather the support of 3,000 mortgage holders with a average value of 100,000 left on their mortgage(yes I know that's low) who have this mortgage with a single institution.

Organize a strategic default with all 3,000 people for the renegotiation of their debt. There would have to be a awareness that the bank may try to initiate proceedings against a couple of people to try set a example.

Keep it out of the media but hold the threat of the media over their heads in negotiations. The chance of copy cats would be high as well as the way the markets would react if the news got out. But you don't want to let this get out, once its in the press they will never let any debt off. Its a final screw you if they fail to negotiate.

Do the maths. 3k mortgages at a average debt value of 100k is 300 million in debt. Assuming 30 years of payments, a single month payments withheld would be close to 850k in revenue lost on average. This would cripple our already crippled institutions. And if the bank wanted to regain the houses they would have to initiate proceedings against each policy holder individually at great cost and time before trying to recover the remain debt off each person after. They do not want to do this.

Most important thing is to remain unified and not to be greedy. An offer of 10% on 100k is not to be sniffed at.

Never going to happen though. People just don't have that sort of organisation or resolve in large numbers.

Senna · 19-12-2012 06:14PM

Where do you think this €100m write off would come from?
No one was forced to take on debt, if you made a bad decision then you have to accept consequences. If anyone is really struggling then you make smaller repayments and provide for your family first, but that debt is still your responsibility. Mass right off's is not the way to go, the debt just falls back on the general public, people have to accept the mistakes they made.

Zamboni · 19-12-2012 11:21PM

Del2005 wrote: »

Can someone please translate?

ricman/riclad is an awesome part of the furniture here.
Nobody translates for him.
Think of him as an old uncle in the corner

Getting out of negative equity - regain your freedom! Interested? [Mad thread]

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