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Who would be at fault if two vehicles change to the same lane and collide?

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  • 16-12-2012 11:23am
    #1
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,790 ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqK58Kv_cIk

    What would happen if the above video ended in two vehicles colliding? From the video you can see I’ve started to change lane before the other driver even indicates, it’s only a matter of milliseconds but if you look at the position the van is facing you’ll see it’s changed from straight on, to a little to the left. The rules of the road state you must give way to somebody who is completing a turn or maneuver so I’d say I’d be in the clear, but it’s a close call and I’m not sure if everyone, in particular an insurance assessor, would see it the same way?


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    #2
    baldshin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭baldshin


    Pretty sure you would be at fault as you'd be hitting the other car from behind, either that or the insurers would call it 50/50. Despite the other ejit not checking his mirrors or indicating.


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    #3
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,790 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    That's a wide angle lens so it wouldn't of been from behind, I'd say the point of impact would be around the wheel arches if there was contact. I wouldn't be happy with 50/50 there at all!


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    #4
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Well you'd have it on Dash cam, guy pulled out anyway without looking he'd be 100% at fault.


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    #5
    The Big Red Button
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭The Big Red Button


    I'd put the black car entirely at fault. If someone's in the overtaking lane, you should be aware of them and you should assume that they're midway through an overtaking maneuvere (as they clearly are, in this case) and that they'll be moving back into the lane shortly.

    Even in a situation where I'm driving in the first lane (where there are three lanes), and I want to overtake someone, and there's some idiot cruising along in the third lane, with no vehicles in the second, I'd still be very careful about moving into the second lane to overtake - as I'm pretty sure I'd be liable if the third-lane asshole decide to move into the second lane at the same time.

    Not sure how insurance assessors view these situations, though.


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    #6
    OldmanMondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭OldmanMondeo


    Without the video insurance would probably put at 50/50, with the video you have started to change lane before the car indicates.


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    #7
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    he indicated and pulled out at the same moment straight into your path. Entirely his fault for not using his mirror or looking over his right shoulder to check the blind spot.


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    #8
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,790 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Chatterpillar makes a very good point that I am indeed already in the middle of a maneuver before even entering the lane. Glad to see how straight forward it can be anyway and shows how valuable the dash cams can be too!


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    #9
    OldmanMondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭OldmanMondeo


    cormie wrote: »
    how valuable the dash cams can be too!

    But never as good as using your eyes...


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    #10
    Bigcheeze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Bigcheeze


    Irish people still getting used to three lane motorways and of course there is zero education about the difference between 2 and 3 lane motorways. I think these type collisions are pretty common on the N7.

    At least the other driver indicated which alerted you to the potential for him to move and prepare for evasive action. So many people do not indicate lane changes on motorways. Even if people make an incorrect move, indication of the move can often prevent an accident.


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    #11
    DubTony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,268 ✭✭✭DubTony


    corktina wrote:
    Entirely his fault for not using his mirror or looking over his right shoulder to check the blind spot.

    Spot on IMO. But you can't trust these gobsh*tes who forget where they are. With respect to Cormies driving ability, I don't make this manoeuvre for the very reason seen in the video. I leave it until theres more space and its unlikely that an idiot will pull into lane 2 to overtake. There are way too many morons who don't check the blind spot.
    My experience has been that when these things go to court, its in the hands of a judge who's probably hitting 80 and hasn't driven since the the traffic on the quays went in the opposite direction. All reason goes out the window.


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    #12
    hi5
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭hi5


    The guy in the left lane is at fault because he should know that nobody would ever drive continously in the far most right lane without returning to the middle lane and then the left lane:rolleyes:


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    #13
    endplate
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭endplate


    Can't blame the guy in the black car fully after all the driver possibly did look in the mirror and check the lane the was planning to move into only when he decided to start the manoeuvre the op had decided to move from two lanes away originally from the black car. I think it would be a long chat between the insurance companies how it would be resolved would probably be 50:50. Best advise was the op had the advantage of seeing the black cars indicator and should have held off on the manoeuvre till he was past the black car. Not trying to slag you cormie I can see from the video it all happened very quickly and thankfully nobody was hurt


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    #14
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,790 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    I had already started the turn and there were cars behind me which could easily have sped up closer behind me as I was indicating before moving in and was seen to have started moving in. The reality with a 3 lane road is that you should be aware of what's in each lane around you. If neither of us were, it could have resulted in a collision. I could have allowed a bit more time before pulling left for the "unaware buffer" DubTony mentions above, but from a legal standpoint I believe I was well within the rules and had anything happened, it would be the other driver at blame. Of course it's best to avoid any such incident.


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    #15
    DubTony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,268 ✭✭✭DubTony


    Endplate, The guy in the car moved within a second of indicating, so Cormie really didn't have that chance. If I remember correctly, the correct practice is MIMM; Mirror - Indicate - Mirror - Manoeuvre (my driving instructor loved acronyms ;))And on a three lane road throw in a quick glance over the shoulder. It looks like the guy in the black car didn't do this.

    Anyway, the new acronym is MIMM-QGOS :D


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    #16
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,664 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    To be honest if that were me in the far right lane with a line of cars merging on the far left, I'd stay where I am because experience would tell me there will be at least ONE who will cut out like that into the middle lane, or even try to force their way across all 3 lanes.

    This is why if I'm travelling the length of the M50 I will stay in the far right between the N3 and N7 junctions because the amount of last-minute ducking and diving to get to the exit, and then (as illustrated in the video) the queue jumpers joining at the far side means it's a lot safer to just stay well away from it and move back over after you pass these junctions.

    And to pre-empt the "it's an overtaking lane" brigade - Answer: Don't care .. While I completely agree anywhere other than these 3 junctions, until I see AGS cars doing more than camping out at the side of motorways or blocking footpaths while on the chipper run, I will do whatever I think best to keep myself, any passengers, and my car safe.


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